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Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:14:00 - [1441]
 

Too embarrassed to continue the discussion under the devblog that originally outraged the third party developers, CCP has posted a new devblog and associated comments for this topic here:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1534389

Nak hak
Posted - 2011.06.25 00:48:00 - [1442]
 

The 3rd party developer of the EVE community are still waiting CCP... still waiting...

Xander Hunt
Minmatar
Dead Rats Tell No Tales
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:09:00 - [1443]
 

Originally by: Johnathan Walker
Edited by: Johnathan Walker on 17/06/2011 10:41:28
So hold on a minute...

Let's say I make a private corporate website. Said site uses ads to generate a few pennies on the dollar to help pay for my server/hosting costs...money that comes out of my pocket to provide a service to my wingmates.

Now I just happen to have a tie-in to the API checking sovereignty and POS bits... and now I need a commercial license because I use ads to pay my server expenses???



Seriously CCP?


Un-believable. You've done some crazy crap in the past (micro-transactions come to mind), but this... SORELY disappointed. It should be sufficient to place copyright information in a visible and public location.


The other thing to take note is that even if you DIDN'T take donations, the fact that you have a public facing website that utilizes CCPs .. ANYTHING... you'll need to pay the $99 fine.. err.. I mean ... fee.

CaptPeterseNL
The Embraced Of Eve
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:57:00 - [1444]
 

Question: is your boss Steve Jobs? Thats the kinda guy who comes up with this crappy idea! You tell people it's about the game and not about the money. You really expect us to believe that?!

EVE-Online became a great game through the large community what created itself around EVE. So CCP may be glad they have such Third Party Developers as if they weren't part of the community, EVE wouldn't be this big. You're repaying them with a charge of $99,- each year?! SHAME ON YOU!!


ChYph3r
Multiplex Gaming
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:01:00 - [1445]
 

the greed is getting stronger with this one!

Ember Scar
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:00:00 - [1446]
 

test

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Amarr
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.06.28 07:55:00 - [1447]
 

Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar on 28/06/2011 14:08:43
I think it would be better if CCP just stuck with Eve and stayed away from unrelated game development. I also think the monetizing business model could very possibly destroy the heart of Eve. I would stay well away from it.

Zero Bit
Posted - 2011.07.02 09:19:00 - [1448]
 

Well, that's it. No further comments for four days now. The community becomes silent, probably busy with waiting for some answers, playing a bit while waiting, forgetting the fuss.

I am not satisfied. Neither with this monetising euphemism nor with MT, nor with where CCP and EVE seem to head now. I have cancelled my subscription (and no, you cannot has my stuff). Since my character and his belongings are preserved I will happy to join again if things turn out to be less bad than anticipated or corrections to EVEs development have been made.

DanielD Hayes
Posted - 2011.07.02 15:24:00 - [1449]
 

CCP just stop breaking eve.

MasterChief351
Gallente
Atlas Research Group
Posted - 2011.07.06 09:48:00 - [1450]
 

I understand the point of charging a license for 3rd party devs wanting to charge Real-Life Money For there Services it is using CCP stuff so understandable.What I dont Understand is if they dont want to charge real-life money they still need to pay the $99.Why not just charge something way smaller for the ones who dont want to get Real-Life Monies[i dont understand what i said there who doesnt want RL Money!Very Happy] or better yet dont charge One At all.

Like this;
.Able to use the EVE Online name and logo etc... in there name+site
.Cannot Charge Using Real Money.
.Can Accept Donations of Real-Money for Server Upkeep lets say[agreed before hand]
.Costs $25 somewhere that bracket.Near enough to a PLEX

And Certain Types of 3rd Devs Should be exempt for what they charge.

Dont know what im saying makes senseugh

Xander Hunt
Minmatar
Dead Rats Tell No Tales
Posted - 2011.07.11 15:35:00 - [1451]
 

Originally by: MasterChief351
I understand the point of charging a license for 3rd party devs wanting to charge Real-Life Money For there Services it is using CCP stuff so understandable.What I dont Understand is if they dont want to charge real-life money they still need to pay the $99.Why not just charge something way smaller for the ones who dont want to get Real-Life Monies[i dont understand what i said there who doesnt want RL Money!Very Happy] or better yet dont charge One At all.

Like this;
.Able to use the EVE Online name and logo etc... in there name+site
.Cannot Charge Using Real Money.
.Can Accept Donations of Real-Money for Server Upkeep lets say[agreed before hand]
.Costs $25 somewhere that bracket.Near enough to a PLEX

And Certain Types of 3rd Devs Should be exempt for what they charge.

Dont know what im saying makes senseugh


I understand why, but, I really don't think "Certain Devs" should not have to pay for the service if they're asking for RW monies. Everyone should be on an even field, otherwise you're looking at animosity between dev'rs and theres already enough wars going on that it shouldn't reach into the dev community.

I still stand that all applications that use the API require registration with CCP and requests to the API are done via SSL, and a private key is required per application, RW monies are charged RW prices, ISK transactions are free.

Naran Eto
Posted - 2011.07.12 08:52:00 - [1452]
 

Originally by: MasterChief351
.Can Accept Donations of Real-Money for Server Upkeep lets say[agreed before hand]


I think if they research this further they will find that in most countries they cannot charge someone who is not making a physical proffit anyway. Under most countries copyright legislation it is perfectly legal to use someone elses intelectual property under the condition that they do not make a proffit and provide an obvious disclaimer stating who the owner of the intelectual property is and that they are not associated with them. Under various international laws people who recieve donations that are in total below their yearly operating costs are legaly classed as non-proffit and thus in many countries it would infact be ilegal for CCP to charge them unless they can prove that the yearly sum of their donations exceeds their yearly cost of operation.

Kenn
Caldari
McKae Industries and Research
Posted - 2011.08.02 17:36:00 - [1453]
 

Xander had a nice Post on a thread relating to this. I posted a reply and will quote it here.

Not up on my code so I will do this cave man style

Quote starts here:



I liked Xander Hunts suggestion as follows:



Originally by: Xander Hunt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




If you want to turn around a profit out of this, require that developers are to register their software with your site (Free/donation/for pay), and all RW payments are done via CCP. CCP takes a percentage home off registrations, the owner of the software can decide to cash in with taking payment from CCP either by transactions being put into a PayPal account, or in-game time. Any product that is found to be against the policies can have the payment account locked, and any funds acquired that haven't been "paid out" stay with CCP. Requests to the API server are done via a POST and SSL connection to validate the applications access.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's a pay as you make money plan. It provides CCP with a return and protects the developer from loss. No up front costs are involoved although payment by ISK may be nerfed by 3rd parties. However with the Plex program that may result in a workaround as ISK can purchase Plexes which can be sold as GTC (that gets untouched by the liscence as it's double dipping). If the mechanics do not allow transforming Plex to GTC (never worked with that) then that needs to be fixed to make it work.

Sadly the outrage of the community and justifiably so has probably turned the dev away so they fail to see the constructive posts. I too question this move but if the devs feel it's necessary then let us simply find an agreeable way to do this.

I personally see Eve as dying anyway. I am just waiting for that point where I myself leave the game (it's coming soon). Many 3rd party devs have already left the game and some prominent ones too and CCP didn't seem to care. For me its' a very bad sign. Instead of correcting this they instead took the step of driving more away. Whether this was intended or not it shows the state of mind CCP is in. There were better ways of handling this as there were with many things about this game but this is the flavor we get. This is how CCP does business. The writing on the wall is clear to me.

There is still time however and maybe an anvil will fall on their heads and wake them up. Alternative solutions are out there that will work like Xander's shown above. So I won't retire my account just yet.


Quote ends here:

I think Xanders idea is excellent and probably one of many ways to work around this with out ticking off the Eve community. It's a flexible idea and can be worked with in many ways.

As you can see in my original post I really don't hold my breath for hope. LOL. CCP has been doing business this way pretty much since the Inception of EVE. I fear World Of Darkness which has HUGE potential will ultimately go the same route and I may not even bother to try it out to save my self the headache. That's a shame as I would have enjoyed that if it were not for the aggravation.

As I stated before it's not the end......yet. Let's give them a chance to actually fall on their faces and not yell at them because they simply announced they were going to. They may surprise us yet ...me more so than anyone. Shocked

Valencia Mariana
Caldari
Air
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.08.12 09:05:00 - [1454]
 

"I'd just like to take this moment to state in a very clear manner what it is you are doing here:
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats"

QFT

Kaomond
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:13:00 - [1455]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Will corporation and alliance websites require a commercial license?

No, private websites do not need a license. However, if you have an external facing part of the website that uses the EVE IP you will require a non-commercial or a commercial license, depending on your use.



Very well, my corporation website has the eve logo on the frontpage to show that it is an eve corporation, if this is how it will be then i will need a license. However, if i need to buy a license, then i expect CCP to in return pay me for advertsiing their product with the logo and the 4 picture links at the bottom of my front page linking to the free trials etc.

Khan'matar
Posted - 2011.09.02 04:07:00 - [1456]
 

I sympathize with CCP in trying to enact protective measures against the tiny few that engage in what can be legally construed in some jurisdictions as international money-laundering, cross-border bartering, services for hire, gambling and/or misuse of their creative license while attempting to balance the needs of the core audience and sincere 3rd party developers.

I can see how charging a fee is not meant to deter the goodwill of the thousands who have and continually add to the EVE marketplace, but rather is intended as a minimal measure against abuse by parties whose main motivation is to commercialize EVE without rewarding its creators.


Non-commercial websites and apps will now require a (free) license.


As they say, the Devil is in the details.

---
With everyone's $0.02 so far we now have ~$29.08 in opinions, before taxes.

Xander Hunt
Minmatar
Dead Rats Tell No Tales
Posted - 2011.09.04 12:34:00 - [1457]
 

Originally by: Khan'matar
I sympathize with CCP in trying to enact protective measures against the tiny few that engage in what can be legally construed in some jurisdictions as international money-laundering, cross-border bartering, services for hire, gambling and/or misuse of their creative license while attempting to balance the needs of the core audience and sincere 3rd party developers.

I can see how charging a fee is not meant to deter the goodwill of the thousands who have and continually add to the EVE marketplace, but rather is intended as a minimal measure against abuse by parties whose main motivation is to commercialize EVE without rewarding its creators.


Non-commercial websites and apps will now require a (free) license.


As they say, the Devil is in the details.

---
With everyone's $0.02 so far we now have ~$29.08 in opinions, before taxes.



This tactic is nothing less than a pure money grab, pure and simple. With the release of their financial standings, the fact that they've put the price of PLEX at pretty close to the same price of a regular month account on the condition you buy 13 PLEX in one go really shows that they're hurt'n badly.

However, I can much more agree with THIS tactic than any other as I am not *FORCED* into forking over my cash to do what I love and enjoy, and honestly, I really did think about it. Thing is, with the financial situation in the wild, is EVE going to be around for another year+1month to make that PLEX worth while? Is my $200 going to help make the company last that much longer (Yes, so long they don't fold in 3 months)?

This particular post I write here isn't really in line with the subject matter, however, it raises serious concerns (As serious as concerns can get about a game) to the execution plan of how they're going to get their money.

However, as this is part of the dev thread, I do like some of the new things they are putting in, which has been on the :drawing/[player {begged/demanded/asked/needed/hoped} for]: board for who knows how long.


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