open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Dev Track Feedback: Monetizing Your Apps and Services
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 39 40 41 42 [43] 44 45 46 47 ... : last (49)

Author Topic

Crusher Deac
Southern Cross Incorporated
Flying Dangerous
Posted - 2011.06.18 07:15:00 - [1261]
 

Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




This is the one of your most asinine ideas CCP.

Zen Havok
Posted - 2011.06.18 09:06:00 - [1262]
 

Just wow, Zulu. Regardless of intent, you and everyone behind this idea have managed to steer brand perception amongst your "best" customers into antartic territory. I work on Wall Street and am actually feeling better about our reputation. Wink

Orithien Veladorn
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.18 09:11:00 - [1263]
 

Edited by: Orithien Veladorn on 18/06/2011 09:11:43
I'm concerned that CCP's decision will severely discourage 3rd-party programmers, resulting in the shutdown of many 3rd-party websites and/or programs which are currently vital to playing Eve in a bearable way. I'm pretty sure most of them won't pay and will just disappear, leaving the players without these useful tools, and left alone to deal with the intricacies of the game. Sad

Losing that DIY side (by wanting to stick with an outdated MMO business model) is likely to have severe adverse effects on the player population, discouraged by the lack of helpful 3rd-party programs and ending up leaving the game.

Sathynos
Caldari
BSX Industries
Inver Brass
Posted - 2011.06.18 09:22:00 - [1264]
 

Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




this

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.18 09:23:00 - [1265]
 

Edited by: Bomberlocks on 18/06/2011 09:36:53
Edit: Now with moar sig.

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.18 09:25:00 - [1266]
 

Originally by: skurv

Second, I personally think that charging people who monetize their applications is more than appropriate. If you get real money for your product that utilizes their intellectual property, then you should have to give them money in return.


This is a moot point. I've read every single posting in this thread and I can't remember anyone questioning this part of the dev blog.

Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
Posted - 2011.06.18 09:53:00 - [1267]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Originally by: skurv

Second, I personally think that charging people who monetize their applications is more than appropriate. If you get real money for your product that utilizes their intellectual property, then you should have to give them money in return.


This is a moot point. I've read every single posting in this thread and I can't remember anyone questioning this part of the dev blog.

Especially as the dev blog explicitly states that you still can't charge real money for eve related tools and servcies.

mocrt
1st Steps Academy
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.06.18 10:03:00 - [1268]
 

Hmmm

Me thinks it's time to flag CCP as 'Red'! Twisted Evil

I'm at a loss how this got through any form of standing back and thinking about this.

Did you guys have a meeting about this or was this a Friday afternoon...'oh what the hell' move?

I have great ideas at work at times...sometimes though...after some thought and A MEETING of others I find that my idea, while looking initially great, has an impact I didn't foresee.

See previous 40+ pages.
Rolling Eyes

Hope you have a meeting soon!

Mo

Crazy M99
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.06.18 10:10:00 - [1269]
 

Bad move ccp.

It's all about customer empowerment.


Aedeal
Posted - 2011.06.18 10:26:00 - [1270]
 

Apps based on the EVE API are now so ingrained with the game that the loss of them would make the game suffer, badly.

I understand that CCP wishes to keep control of their IP, that's a fair request, but not to the point where their IP funds their IP (ISK for services), so why not have two licenses?

License one: No charging real life money for anything developed using the EVE IP allowed, only free/ISK and ad-supported (assuming you get no monetary return from the ads). The ISK stays in the economy.

License two: $99 or whatever fee it turns out to be, which means you can charge the people using your app a real life fee *directly*.

TLDR: If you profit in the real world from the EVE IP, you should pay a fee to CCP for doing so. Seems fair to me.

Queen Titania
Posted - 2011.06.18 10:47:00 - [1271]
 

Hello Sweeties

While I'm not a 3rd party developer, I do feel for them, when I think about the man/woman hours that must of went into developing these applications/websites and then they allow players to use them for free. (I thank you for this)
If it wasn't for the 3rd party developers, many new players wouldn't stay with the game. I wouldn't have my account.
If it wasn't for applications/website like EFT, Evemon, EveHQ, Outofeve, Chribba's site and battleclinic among others, there would of been no way for me to play.
These 3rd party developers and the community is what makes Eve addictive. I hope CCP will bring themselves back down to earth (so to speak). And solve this situation as soon as possible.

Take Care and Fly Safe
QT


General Longkill
Helljumpers
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.06.18 11:30:00 - [1272]
 

Edited by: General Longkill on 18/06/2011 11:31:45
Edited by: General Longkill on 18/06/2011 11:30:57
Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




Lets see here...

I pay subscription to play said product....
I help test up coming expansions while paying you and you NOT paying me...
I develop app to HELP the eve players better UNDERSTAND and play your game to its FULLEST potential...
You want me to PAY YOU to do YOUR job...

How the **** do you rationalize that???

I don't charge RL money cuz thats ******ed... ingame isk is NOT required and if people want to donate GREAT!!

so lets see...

yearly subscription fee ... check
Domain registration fee ... check
Hosting fees ... check
hours of time used to create said apps ... check

CCP says, "please pay US so you can continue to do stuff at YOUR expense so OUR players can play our product".

guess what, you charge me a fee to produce something, Im not producing a ****ing thing. I might even unsub... so yeah you get LESS money...

go ahead, keep ****ting on your CUSTOMERS and see how far your bottom line falls you ******s.

DAGMA20
Minmatar
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.18 12:02:00 - [1273]
 

Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




This

(1.) You say its "not about the money" but if that is the case, why not have a nominal charge say $1-5, you can then do all the "identification purposes" you want and then simply return the money back to the developer, that's how pay pal identify people.


(2.) Most development I have seen is to write some form of code that reads the api and then simplifies it into methods in a library format then reference that rather than directly connecting to the api from a site or application and as CCP has stated that they will no pursue further royalties etc.. this might actually only affect a small number of developers which still sucks but if the community dontated for like 4-5 licenses then each programming language could have its own licensed dll/code and then the code can be freely distribute this to the rest of the community

Note: There are some limitations to above, but this would therefore mean websites can continue to use googleadwords, players get free apps etc...

Just my two cents

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.18 12:21:00 - [1274]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 18/06/2011 12:22:03
Originally by: General LongkillLets see here...


I pay subscription to play said product....
I help test up coming expansions while paying you and you NOT paying me...
I develop app to HELP the eve players better UNDERSTAND and play your game to its FULLEST potential...
You want me to PAY YOU to do YOUR job...

How the **** do you rationalize that???




How?

Simple. Just read this newest devblog.

With a timing that really tells you how they rationalized that, they ask us to rewrite a piece of the API fetching mechanism of our apps. With 3 days of notice.

Because hey, we have to pay $99 for the work we do AND HTFU and hurry up, no?

O2xli
Posted - 2011.06.18 12:38:00 - [1275]
 

Edited by: O2xli on 18/06/2011 12:39:39
Hello CCP,

I understand ur need to prtotect ur IP, but please don't forget that EvE will never be the same without the greate free of charge 3rd Party applications.

CCP must find a way to give 3rd Party developers a free of charge license agrrement, if they make free of charge applications.

And don't forget server hosting is not for free, for that free apllications it should be possible to accept donations ...

please make the right decision, or u will harm EvE badly when u kill the community.

regards

o2


Adrie Atticus
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
Posted - 2011.06.18 13:19:00 - [1276]
 

Edited by: Adrie Atticus on 18/06/2011 13:19:29
Only way the $99 fee will work is if CCP
1) provides full documentation for the API alongside a guaranteed availability whenever TQ is online
OR
2) provides a 24/7 hosting to all the 3rd party projects no matter how much they pull in traffic or require space on the cluster.

In any other case, charging for the usage of their IP is preposterous and uncalled for in the current form.

Dyner
Minmatar
Midgard Protectorate
Posted - 2011.06.18 13:58:00 - [1277]
 

Originally by: Adrie Atticus

In any other case, charging for the usage of their IP is preposterous and uncalled for in the current form.


Technically, they already are; Subscription Fee. And that's as far as it should go.

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

How?

Simple. Just read this newest devblog.

With a timing that really tells you how they rationalized that, they ask us to rewrite a piece of the API fetching mechanism of our apps. With 3 days of notice.

Because hey, we have to pay $99 for the work we do AND HTFU and hurry up, no?


Don't know why the developers would even bother to re-write. This sort of 'idea' (Monetizing Everything) is like cancer. Once you are 'cured' there's still a high probability it'll come back.

How will this come back? Easy.....$5 to generate a Full API/$1 for limited. So the developers won't be the ones getting charged...the subscribers will. Blizzard did something like this with the "Play with Real ID Friends" subscription.

In case 'you [all]' don't get it CCP (and Blizzard) both just want to increase the subscription fee without actually increasing it; aka Premium Services!

Kandreath
Posted - 2011.06.18 14:07:00 - [1278]
 

I'm simply dumbfounded.

I wouldn't consider this 'draft' proposal mature enough to be aired outside the walls of your offices.

First and most importantly for me, if all I do is ask for an ISK donation or charge ISK for an application, then this is a non commercial use of the CCP/EVE IP. - Keeping in mind this could be as simple as sharing a spreadsheet with some static data and asking for a donation for compiling it. - $99US for that? - seriously...

This stuff does not come out of thin air and when I develop something, It takes away game time, so why not recoup some ISK for that?

Getting some donations for keeping a eve related website running which adds the the game experience is only fair and hardly a commercial enterprise leaching off the CCP IP. Adding an annual $99 fee for that? You will see a lot of the current websites pack up.

How on earth are you going to police the free license situation? What benefit will a free licence give CCP/the developer?

I cannot believe the following statement, "It's not about the money.." - This is coming out of the Biz Development area; is it not? - It's about making money. - Most of us a grown ups and understand that's why companies exist. if it's not about the money (for real) then the only other motivator is a legal/IP retention one. To be honest, this makes the most sense in this context...

I think this proposal has more likely bad outcomes then good ones.


ToXicPaIN
Minmatar
Strategic Solutions Ltd.
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2011.06.18 14:34:00 - [1279]
 

Originally by: Sathynos
Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




this


signed

RFLavaGirl
Posted - 2011.06.18 14:35:00 - [1280]
 

Meh I dunno if I am going to Resubscribe to EVE Online.

EVE Online is a game managed by its players such as Ecnomics, people will continue to exchange for Real Life money as they please for example there is nothing that can stop that, and such, but my problem with this is simple

We pay $16.95 a month subscription fee, which is like over $120 USD per year, and now they want a $99 FEE Per year, that doesn't seem that bad for an APP, however APP's should also have a GPL Version for FREE those that don't make any type of profit at all users should be allowed to use the API, Why charge for an API Key, and or an APP Developer from NON PROFIT?

Is it because EVE Online really isn't doing that well, are they looking just to dump extra money into another game like DUST, or something?

Well honestly if I see any type of charges for any AP's I am using, or anything I am for sure not going to recommend EVE Online to anyone anymore, and I will probabily Unsubscribe because I feel that EVE is becoming a MICRO TRANSACTION game, and these type of games suck, we all know what gamers first did with All Points Bulletin when they take it over starting to rip people off for SLot guns $40 a gun when they could release a version that allowed you to buy the gun one time with 3 slots and add as you please but choose to nickel & dime this is what I see out of the future of EVE Online once their new patch goes lives they are going to charge for Character Recustomization, and all that , and this will be the release me and my friends will Unsubscribe if they do such, because we are sick and tired of game companies doing stuff like this after people enjoy it the way it is.

Sure the developers need money, but tell me how hard is it to manage an API Data Base really, and how much development really goes into EVE anyways it takes months, and months just to get a 3D room built, and characters that can move that is just way too long.

exlore
The Grimreapers.
Posted - 2011.06.18 14:36:00 - [1281]
 

Fire your lawyer CCP . , .

xXsambookaXx
Posted - 2011.06.18 14:44:00 - [1282]
 

Edited by: xXsambookaXx on 18/06/2011 14:44:23
CCP, if you have got the message yet. i think people are mad. (at you)

Wahsigmar
Caldari
Solarise Flares
Posted - 2011.06.18 14:45:00 - [1283]
 

100 dollars on top of my ts3 charge.... sigh.... what will they think of next?

Wahsigmar
Caldari
Solarise Flares
Posted - 2011.06.18 14:54:00 - [1284]
 

Originally by: ToXicPaIN
Originally by: Sathynos
Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




this


signed



Strike?
Now I think know why Lolsec attacked...

liaxolox
Gallente
Jol-Nar Industries
Twilight Imperium
Posted - 2011.06.18 15:26:00 - [1285]
 

Edited by: liaxolox on 18/06/2011 15:26:43
Someone tell whoever is in charge at eve-central that I have $99 a year I can part with to keep it going. Then they can monetize the site via donations or whatever and further subsidize the hosting and domain.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.18 16:14:00 - [1286]
 

Originally by: liaxolox
Edited by: liaxolox on 18/06/2011 15:26:43
Someone tell whoever is in charge at eve-central that I have $99 a year I can part with to keep it going. Then they can monetize the site via donations or whatever and further subsidize the hosting and domain.



They don't expect you or any single player to cover the CCP $99 fee and using ads or accepting donations are part of why they'd have to pay CCP $99 in order to keep going in ADDITION to their normal/current costs that they've been covering either with ads/donations or purely out of pocket for years.

They like several other sites that do this kind of service without demaning that players give them something first, isk/money would fall under CCP's 'commercial license' requiring them to pay $99 to CCP. All for the benefit of providing a service to EVE players when asking for nothing except the voluntary donation of isk/money, or using ads to subsidize their own costs (which is often laughable as are donations) OR make use of CCP 'IP' like EVE images/logos.

I and many others including the site owner/operators are glad you made your way here or noticed their stand against this but it would help if you bothered to read what is going on or understood it. What you've written says to me you don't get it OR expect them to demand payment BEFORE you can make use of their site/service which is NOT what they want to do. They like the VAST majority of EVE' 3rd party developers/service providers didn't get into it to make a profit but to serve the community/help players/support CCP's product.

All this crap is the fault of CCP and their defaulting to marketing/lawyers instead of using their own heads and recognizing how a 'one size fits all' license doesn't work for their vision of 'commercial' or 'free'. They very poorly communicated their idea and saw fit to not think it through OR if they did at CCP are a bunch of tossers who don't understand the community, their game, their players, or much of anything that isn't about making money.

leyzar
Posted - 2011.06.18 17:02:00 - [1287]
 

Originally by: ToXicPaIN
Originally by: Sathynos
Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




Clear no? dont take the road blizzard did....yeah you know what im talking about.

HurryKane
Posted - 2011.06.18 17:15:00 - [1288]
 

Devs of EveMon and EFT should pull their apps right now. Eve is practically unplayable for new people without those two apps, they provide functionality that should've been built into the game. Let CCP deal with the *****ing.

Dee Lectable
Posted - 2011.06.18 17:17:00 - [1289]
 

Bad idea, CCP....

Pull UP! Pull UP!

Relaxedtrader
Posted - 2011.06.18 18:04:00 - [1290]
 

CCP, this proposal creates incentives for people to not spend their time developing free 3rd party applications, websites and calculators which help other people play the game. Many players use these tools a great deal and appreciate the time other players spend making them available for the rest of us.

If you wish to tax certain 3rd party applications, such as gambling sites, or sites where isk profit is made as a result of entertainment value provided, that would be acceptable in my view. However, information should always be free. A reasonable tax would be a percentage of isk profit as it relates to the cost of plex in game.

ie -> 8-15% of isk profit made as a function of the median plex sale value in game, weighted with heavier values in empire space vs null like 65/35%.

So if Bob's Isk Gambling returns ~2.5 billion profit/month, and median plex sale price in empire is 380 million and median sale in null is 350 million then median price of plex as stated above is ~360 million, according the the weighted values. So charge at 8-15% of their monthly profit, the cost would be 24.016 million isk per dollar. Resulting in $8.32 per month at 8% tax or $16 at 15%.

It's reasonable to charge for-profit sites which see their profits in the form of isk. However, charging non-profit sites which make money from donations is counterproductive. Sites which deal in information, and are run on donations are a benefit to everyone in eve, including CCP. We've all been playing eve long enough to know that CCP isn't going to be able to provide all the information we need in accessible forms. Even if CCP were willing to take on that burden, it would destroy the "free market" for information sites about eve, meaning: The competition to develop excellent accessible sites which deliver information is very steep, so crap sites fall by the wayside, while excellent sites are used thousands of times daily.

Please don't create incentives for people to not deliver information about your game. The more exposure and tools is available to make the famous eve difficulty curve less intense, the more people can enjoy eve. That's really the point isn't it?
Make a great game, people will come. Don't **** with eve free market information sharing.


Pages: first : previous : ... 39 40 41 42 [43] 44 45 46 47 ... : last (49)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only