open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Dev Track Feedback: Monetizing Your Apps and Services
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 37 38 39 40 [41] 42 43 44 45 ... : last (49)

Author Topic

Ptraci
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:27:00 - [1201]
 

Edited by: Ptraci on 17/06/2011 15:30:19
Not to mention there is something called "fair use" that exists in many countries. Yes EVE Online, the game and storyline and in-game item selection is undoubtedly the intellectual property of CCP hf. However it's possible to get into arguments about what exactly is "allowed" and isn't "allowed" under copyright laws.

Now of course you at CCP could take the attitude that many corporations take: "we will let our legal department handle that, and we can afford better lawyers than you can". However do you really think that suing your customers music/film industry-style is the image you want, going forward?

I think there are far more creative ways of increasing EVE-related revenue than "You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you *******"...

You own the game. You do NOT own the community.

Rillen Valkha
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:28:00 - [1202]
 

Bad idea. This will be the beginning of a downward spiral.

Please do not do this.

What on earth made you think this was a good idea?

Thee Ab'adon
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:33:00 - [1203]
 

Ok I get charging a license fee to people who CHARGE for their services...but donations, advertisement run sites, corp websites and even the damn ISK donation sites? What the bloody hell are you people thinking??? Do you realize what a damn wasteland the third party content of EVE will become if you attempt to charge people who run sites like DOTLAN and applications like EVEMon an annual fee?

I get it if you want to charge people who sell their phone apps for $. I get it if you want a $ subscription per month website based on eve to pay you....but those free resources that help make EVE into the ONLY game to have not only lasted this long but prospered?

Are you bleeding insane?

OldWolf69
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:48:00 - [1204]
 

Silence
Laughing
Tought that customers deserve at least the respect of a small answer. Foolish me.

skurv
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:50:00 - [1205]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
It is in no way the purpose of the program to deter or make money off 3rd party development. The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).

Its obvious we have to review and iterate on the contract and program as presented in the devblog since most of the points mentioned in the comments are not in line with its core purpose.


First, to all those who are reposting the whole "you're charging" blah blah blah... he's already admitted that the contract needs revisited to meet everyone's needs, give them a while to actually sift through the crap that's in the thread and pull out the valid points, revise the document, and try again. You're talking about a legal contract they're creating here, that takes time to make/review and get the okay from the boss.

Second, I personally think that charging people who monetize their applications is more than appropriate. If you get real money for your product that utilizes their intellectual property, then you should have to give them money in return. However, if you do not charge people real money (ie isk or donation only) and are not ad supported then there's no reason you should have to pay and you should be able to use the free license. Products out there currently such as evemon and EFT wouldn't be effected by this change (if it was done this way) other than the developers would have to get the free license, and the majority of the playerbase would go on uneffected.

The type of player that would pay for an application is not your average eve player. Most of us are happy using EVEMon and EFT and playing the game. Others, those that specialize in the market especially (which is where a lot of this third party software comes into play tbh), might be willing to pay a small fee for a program that actually helps them make lots of in game profit (or at least reduces the effort/work involved in doing so).

Lastly, i would like to emphasize zulu's statement below....
Quote:

Until we have a license that meets our needs and your expectations we will not make any changes to our terms or enforcement thereof.


Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:00:00 - [1206]
 

Originally by: skurv


First, to all those who are reposting the whole "you're charging" blah blah blah... he's already admitted that the contract needs revisited to meet everyone's needs, give them a while to actually sift through the crap that's in the thread and pull out the valid points, revise the document, and try again. You're talking about a legal contract they're creating here, that takes time to make/review and get the okay from the boss.
Quote:

Until we have a license that meets our needs and your expectations we will not make any changes to our terms or enforcement thereof.




Blowing smoke up our ass doesn't impress me. CCP Zulu did little more than blow smoke up our ass. We want a discussion - they offered us a discussion. There has been no discussion. There has been smoke blown up our ass. That's it.

Dynamix Boon
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:19:00 - [1207]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).



While I understand the desire to protect the IP; the value of the IP is dependant on the community that makes Eve the game it is. Unlike most MMOs, the content in Eve is hugely player driven. Any action that harms the community ultimately harms the IP and vice versa.

I am wondering why there is suddenly a need for this regulation. Most applications and services made available to the Eve community are peer reviewed, so poor apps and websites rarely get traction.

There is a need for some sort of commercial license for products that wish to be sold for real money, it's fair for CCP to take a their cut. However please don't confuse "for profit" with "for the community" products.

Any form of regulation in the form a license agreement could cause conflicts with existing open source licences, or distribution agreements. I would prefer to see a voluntary code of conduct which developers could publicly sign up to. It's important for CCP not to regulate, but to guide. Regulation can stifle creativity. Developers not adhering to the code of conduct maybe encouraged to seek a commercial license depending on the circumstances.

Ultimately it is in the best interests of both CCP and the Eve community, to see Eve Online thrive and grow.

Aerick Dawn
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:19:00 - [1208]
 

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats

Michelle Almeida
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:26:00 - [1209]
 

by doing this CCP you will destroy so much, really aint much else i can say. nothing positive about it

Majuan Shuo
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:30:00 - [1210]
 

Zulu - that doesn't sound corporate-y

It sounds political.

Politics: from the words poly (meaning numerous) and ticks (blood sucking insects)

JUST REMOVE IT.

In the immortal words of Monty Python: GET ON WITH IT.

Cao Acoma
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:34:00 - [1211]
 

Originally by: KilA*****
Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




Greed is the biggest destroyer of man!


QFT

Dunbal
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:35:00 - [1212]
 

Dear CCP,

Please fire your "brand manager" and hire someone who actually knows what they are doing. I would suggest hiring someone from a company that pursues an aggressive branding, marketing and market research policy, like Coca Cola, McDonald's, Procter and Gamble, Kraft, Nestle, Kimberly-Clark, etc. Unfortunately for you, however, these experts in brand management will demand salaries netting above $120k US a year (probably more in Europe) PLUS bonuses, and I am not sure that your "brand" is big enough to afford this. However this is a step you have to take if you are serious about your brand positioning.

Or you can keep ticking off your user-base like you just did, and see if that helps your "branding" at all. Remember that the value of your IP and your brand is absolutely nothing if no one wants to play EVE anymore. You are in a niche. Be careful what you do with your limited niche players.

Etown
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:56:00 - [1213]
 

I've lost faith in humanity.

They'll change it so you'll only need the commercial license if your actually charging money.

Calm down. Go outside.

darmwand
Blood Money Dark Angels
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:58:00 - [1214]
 

Originally by: Etown
Go outside.


Nope, it's raining.

TwentyFive MikeMike
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:01:00 - [1215]
 

Originally by: Dunbal
Remember that the value of your IP and your brand is absolutely nothing if no one wants to play EVE anymore. You are in a niche. Be careful what you do with your limited niche players.
Truth.

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:03:00 - [1216]
 

The only thing that comes to mind is that CCP are slowly starting to move away from the concept of CCP=Eve. But they are doing it in awkward, self damaging way. As every business they don't want to be a one product company, they want to diversify the portfolio. On the other hand, Eve is a classical cash cow - niche game, stable audience, no matter how much you advertise, Eve (as it is now) will not attract other sectors of player audience. So, what they are doing is understandable. Problem is, they are doing it in a unprofessional and self-destructive ways.

darmwand
Blood Money Dark Angels
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:06:00 - [1217]
 

Originally by: Estephania
The only thing that comes to mind is that CCP are slowly starting to move away from the concept of CCP=Eve. But they are doing it in awkward, self damaging way. As every business they don't want to be a one product company, they want to diversify the portfolio. On the other hand, Eve is a classical cash cow - niche game, stable audience, no matter how much you advertise, Eve (as it is now) will not attract other sectors of player audience. So, what they are doing is understandable. Problem is, they are doing it in a unprofessional and self-destructive ways.


Diversify? Into the highly lucrative field of abusing your customers and contributors? Shocked

Imogen Filiotov
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:14:00 - [1218]
 

This is starting to sound like the Creative driver IP issue, where a 3rd party dev made working drivers for the community. EVE IP, by law, belong to CCP Games whether you agree or not, that is the case. IP and licensing is always messy. I don't agree that CCP have only NOW decided to charge for licensing and IP usage. This should have been implemented Day 1, not 10 years down the line. The problem araises when 3rd party devs "ask for donations." Even if the donations are completely innocent or voluntary, this can be seen as an income using CCP's IP. I know, it sucks.

Perhaps CCP Games should have contacted the various popular 3rd party devs and asked for help.

Davo OHno
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:21:00 - [1219]
 

Originally by: ViRUS Pottage
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.



Not that I agree with the language used in the line, but the original post sites too many examples to be ignored.

CCP... You never listen to the gripes, but in this case... OPEN YOUR EYES

Raziel Saston
Deviance Cartel
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:23:00 - [1220]
 

Well done CCP Rolling Eyes
For a company i always thought highly of for customer relations, now the company has lost it's shine.
Really dissapointing.

Skullair
Minmatar
Red Bat Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:32:00 - [1221]
 

Quote:
Why charge for the license at all?

The licensing fee is there to partially cover expenses from this initiative
and more importantly, we need to charge a fee so that we get proper non-spoofable information about the applicant. We have kept the fee as low as possible and hope that the $99 fee is low enough to not dissuade serious developers from participating in the program.




So non-CCP developers are paying you so that you can charge them...


Quote:
Whether we charge $100 or $50 or $10 for a commercial license won't make a big difference to our balance sheet.


the goal from the first quote is to just make a list of third party apps and information on the producer why not make it 10$ 1 time fee or is it just yall speculateing how much money is some one willing to pay before they *****

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:43:00 - [1222]
 

Originally by: Dynamix Boon
Originally by: CCP Zulu
The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).



While I understand the desire to protect the IP; the value of the IP is dependant on the community that makes Eve the game it is. Unlike most MMOs, the content in Eve is hugely player driven.




TLDR

CCP, WE are your IP, protect us

Dyner
Minmatar
Midgard Protectorate
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:44:00 - [1223]
 

Originally by: Raziel Saston
Well done CCP Rolling Eyes
For a company i always thought highly of for customer relations, now the company has lost it's shine.
Really dissapointing.


It's been losing it's shine...this is just another scratch on the paint job...doubt this one will buff out though Laughing

Glasgow Dunlop
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:53:00 - [1224]
 

Edited by: Glasgow Dunlop on 17/06/2011 17:53:40
I herd they guy that done this was working for coke when they changed the formula Laughing

  • if its not broke
    dont fix it
    dont touch
    dont even look at
    but you come in
    trying the screw the player base
    intentions might have been good . . .
    but your silence only means 1 thing . ..

Libin Herobi
Posted - 2011.06.17 18:00:00 - [1225]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).


Does it imply that not everyone will be allowed to get a license?
Will developers have to apply for a license and go through some assessment process? Or is it even per application?
Do you (need to) get the license before you start creating an application or only before distributing it?
What kind of control do you want to exercise and how does charging a license fee allow you to do that?

Dyner
Minmatar
Midgard Protectorate
Posted - 2011.06.17 18:03:00 - [1226]
 

Originally by: Libin Herobi
Originally by: CCP Zulu
The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).


Does it imply that not everyone will be allowed to get a license?
Will developers have to apply for a license and go through some assessment process? Or is it even per application?
Do you (need to) get the license before you start creating an application or only before distributing it?
What kind of control do you want to exercise and how does charging a license fee allow you to do that?


Think Apple and their ****assed Market. Rolling Eyes

Gabriel Rosencrantz
Gods of Freight
Posted - 2011.06.17 18:18:00 - [1227]
 

Edited by: Gabriel Rosencrantz on 17/06/2011 18:19:00
I'm curious if the Red Frog Freight website qualifies. Reading the initial post, its kind of hard to be sure.Confused

I can't imagine why we should have to pay $99 bucks (plus webhost fees) for the privilege of having a trip calculator for our clients.Sad It seems a little silly.

However, it looks like you're thinking things through.

Dyner
Minmatar
Midgard Protectorate
Posted - 2011.06.17 19:05:00 - [1228]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz

However, it looks like you're thinking things through.


Ya, that's just damage control talk. Blizzard said the same thing [going back to the drawing board] when they tried to push the Real ID use on the forums.

Jimmy Astro
Posted - 2011.06.17 21:34:00 - [1229]
 

Originally by: Dunbal
Dear CCP,
Remember that the value of your IP and your brand is absolutely nothing if no one wants to play EVE anymore. You are in a niche. Be careful what you do with your limited niche players.


Exactly.

Someone slap the asshat that is making the Kool-aid in the CCP kitchen. It tastes like crap and I'm pretty sure it's only going to leave an accountant with bad ideas standing.

Sleevedace
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.17 21:40:00 - [1230]
 

If people read the dev blog they'd see this licensing change is very clean and probably the most liberal commercial IP license in the history of software development.

Just ccp can't write a dev blog worth a ****, and half the people on this forum are illiterate in that regard.


Pages: first : previous : ... 37 38 39 40 [41] 42 43 44 45 ... : last (49)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only