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Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:11:00 - [901]
 

CCP, just look how upset you've made Chribba...

That alone should set your "stupid sense" tingling...

Daft moves like this and the 'vanity items' shop attempt to sell 'none-vanity items' ie full ships JUST MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE MONEY-GRABBING fools.

This is yet another terrible PR faux pas and each time you hurt your customers loyalty to the game.

Honestly is that what you want? Everyone to stop playing Eve? You're losing your way.


Deathwing Reborn
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:14:00 - [902]
 

I am fully against this. I think that it is wrong to try and monitize upon people that are fans of the game and are trying to create usefull tools for players. Honestly I woudln't get an app or something that I had to pay for in or out of eve anyway so.

Anders Holst
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:15:00 - [903]
 

I find the idea that websites that are supported by ads and donations should need a commercial lisence 100% (especially a 99 USD one) utterly preposterous!
I understand that you want some unfakeable information about a person running an eve related website that offers ingame services, but some sites offering ingame services cant even pay their electrical bill with ads, how on earth do you want them to pay an additional 99 USD a year?

Roman Clevik
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:15:00 - [904]
 

Edited by: Roman Clevik on 16/06/2011 13:23:13
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Roman Clevik
If I don't pay you 99$ a year what u will do ? sue me ? ... ROTFL


They could bar your application from accessing the API, for starters. Your EVE API based application might become a little useless without it.

Other than that, yes they could sue you for copyright violation, which in most countries carries rather severe penalties.



I bet u don't even know what copyright is ... if I'm not using copyright protected images, CCP logo etc. A dev will win any kind of "copyright violation" lawsuit (or, CCP lawyers should be very stupid to sue me).

API and database is something public and free to use for everyone ... there's no copyright involved in it.

Exordium8
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:17:00 - [905]
 

Originally by: Chribba
ok seriously, I've like Ctrl+A, backspace this post 5 times now, tbh I'm out of words.

I would like to know how many 3rd party developer/sites are doing it for the ****ing awesome income it generates?! Seriously, this if anything WILL kill development of sites and services.

As a creator of sites/applications/services for New Eden since well over 6 years now, I can tell you that I have never once created something with the goal to make money off it, this whole thing about needing a license to make something for the community is just ****ing ******ed! Just hearing this makes my interest/will for developing things crash.

This is not about the $99, this is about how you want to charge me because I want to do something for the community out of my free will - does that sense? Do you feel I am stealing your IP, making massive amounts of money off your IP? Then tell me straight up, don't try to bind it into some fluffy clouds and call it "great news".

Every IPO in Market Discussions will now require a license, since after all, it's donations. Corporations should get a license too, I mean having a corp tax of >0.0% could be seen as a donation to the corporation...

And yeah, I guess me and everyone else with an EVE IP tattoo will need a license, I mean, some other geek may think it's awesome and want to buy me a beer...

I'm just very sad to see this even being discussed, talk about a punch in the face. Don't get me wrong, I see your point of EVE IP, and yes I can agree that it may need to be controlled to some extent, but this is not the way. Not by far.

/c


This alone should worry CCP. If Chribba stops development on third-party stuff, that will be bad for EVE. Very bad.

Lothros Andastar
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:20:00 - [906]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats


Quoted for Truth

Ivanna Nuke
Gallente
Holders Of The Cowbell
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:23:00 - [907]
 

Originally by: DJ Xaphod
Edited by: DJ Xaphod on 16/06/2011 13:11:47
Edited by: DJ Xaphod on 16/06/2011 13:09:35
Quote:
I wonder DJ will ER have to cough up also?


Personally, I doubt it, as we're essentially a fansite providing an out of game entertainment service that doesn't use anything of CCP's beyond what would be normally considered fair use..
Considering the wording in this devlog is so very woolly and non specific though it's hard to say.

EDIT - anyway, this is all just my personal opinion and shouldn't be taken as a viewpoint of the entirety of eve-radio.. I actually didn't intend to post under my DJ character for that reason but.. well, oops. I didn't realise it'd keep reverting back.


Understood mate

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:24:00 - [908]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats





This cannot be posted enough.

Quote:
Will website ads require a commercial license?

Yes, for ad-supported websites you will require a commercial license.


Nice job, "Hey Chib, you know all that great work you put into the community, like EVE-Files, yea, you gotta pay us now to keep them up"

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:25:00 - [909]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 16/06/2011 13:30:20
Originally by: Consortium Agent
I agree with your CEOs interpretation of this thread. The devblog was 'reasonable' in that it clearly stated nothing is set in stone - these are just ideas.
Just so you know: no, it was not clearly stated that it wasn't set in stone. See that green text at the bottom, where the "not set in stone" comment is? That's a later addition.
Quote:
Sadly, everyone actually thinks what was written in the devblog is already a reality and the decisions have already been made.
That's because there was no indication whatsoever that we were not looking at a fait accompli…

eXeler0n
Caldari
FrEE d00M Fighters
Ewoks
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:27:00 - [910]
 

Whats with ISK donation? Can i still ask for them?

WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:27:00 - [911]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
I agree with your CEOs interpretation of this thread. The devblog was 'reasonable' in that it clearly stated nothing is set in stone - these are just ideas. Sadly, everyone actually thinks what was written in the devblog is already a reality and the decisions have already been made. See what *not* listening to your player community buys you? Distrust. Perhaps you should use a bigger font, a different color... bold and/or italics, perhaps, to draw attention to statements like 'Nothing has been set in stone' so folks might pay attention. Might. Until then they're all just whining little carebears with carebear tears that taste so sweet. ;P


They wanted feedback. The feedback has been so overwhelmingly strong because the idea is so overwhelmingly repugnant. We're talking about people who spend their spare time (which isn't much usually) to help fill the holes in the game experience, or to enrich the game experience beyond what CCP may have the time, capacity or vision to provide.

The big backlash however is because of the precedence that CCP Soundwave set of pushing through mentally unstable ideas despite overwhelming opposition. The idea as it stands is "not ideal" to say the least, as was CCP Soundwave's nullsec "adjustments". This one is also not telling the simple truth; if you're making money off CCP, CCP wants a share of the pie. This is their right as a business, but their bizdev guys need to be taken out and flogged for 7 days and 7 nights before every being allowed to suggest anything ever again. Ever.

The actual aim however, creating a good solid legal grounding and helping to support 3rd party developers, is a noble and just cause. Sadly it got tied to the 4th circle of hell along the way. (Or marketing staff/lawyers, they're one in the same.)

Kalach'Cha
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:30:00 - [912]
 

Like someone above me said, I pay to play, I don't pay to make your game playable. You shouldn't be charging 3rd party programmers 99$ a year for making your dysfunctional game better, if anything, you should be paying them 99$ a year out of our subscription money.


We aren't saying this because we whine or hate you, we are speaking this out because this is really a bad idea and a bad way of handling things, you are basically admitting that the game has a lot of loose ends that you don't care about tying up and making features to handle them (because you are busy with useless stuff like walking in stations that nobody asked for) yet you are willing to charge people who do it for free out of their love for this game. And to top it off you also insult the community and lie to our face saying you do it for their good when we all know it has something more to do with the almighty dollar.


Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




I'm going to put this into my bio.

Viktor Klimenko
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:31:00 - [913]
 

No CCP people chiming in? Where are you hiding?

Max Fear
Caldari State Navy
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:37:00 - [914]
 

We discussed this post in a german fan board.

Its ok to get some money from commercial vendors when they use foreign tools like the eve api to generate money.

But the hobbie programmer which just want to assist the community have to be untouchted in future, too.

I think it shoud be handled like this:

service for free, service for ISK and services which provide adds should use the API for free.
Because here you coud see that they work just for fun / cost recovery.
(Yes, online marketing on fan pages are not so lucrativ)

Services, offering paid premium services or ask for donation, have to pay the lizenz fee.




Adrie Atticus
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:38:00 - [915]
 

Originally by: Viktor Klimenko
No CCP people chiming in? Where are you hiding?


Believe it or not, they're asnwering on the beta forums, Spitrife replied at least 3 times on the first page of this thread's continuation:

https://testforums.evegate.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=11682

BuRniZZ
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:40:00 - [916]
 

Originally by: Max Fear
We discussed this post in a german fan board.

Its ok to get some money from commercial vendors when they use foreign tools like the eve api to generate money.

But the hobbie programmer which just want to assist the community have to be untouchted in future, too.

I think it shoud be handled like this:

service for free, service for ISK and services which provide adds should use the API for free.
Because here you coud see that they work just for fun / cost recovery.
(Yes, online marketing on fan pages are not so lucrativ)

Services, offering paid premium services or ask for donation, have to pay the lizenz fee.



So a site asks for X amount in donations to break even, now they have to ask for X+99.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:51:00 - [917]
 

Why a license anyway?


Is maintaining the API so expensive or what? Do you need money to cover the costs for the API?

Well, then demand money for the use of the API! Offer a free limited API access and a premium extended API access. x AUR per month for the premium API to cover your costs.

The whole license project is just plain stupid. It generates only costs, makes everyone unhappy and brings no benefits at all.

Gallentecitizen2011
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:52:00 - [918]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
Blue Republic
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:54:00 - [919]
 

Edited by: Gurgeh Murat on 16/06/2011 13:56:20
Originally by: Adrie Atticus
Originally by: Viktor Klimenko
No CCP people chiming in? Where are you hiding?


Believe it or not, they're asnwering on the beta forums, Spitrife replied at least 3 times on the first page of this thread's continuation:

https://testforums.evegate.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=11682


So CCP have generated a 30 page howling threadnought in about 24 hours on a subject obviously a lot of people feel strongly about...

and...theyre...answering...on...beta...forums....

RAGEEEEEEE

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




Edited to add in the almost obligatory red text bit Embarassed

Angeliq
Minmatar
Soimii Patriei
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:04:00 - [920]
 

Jesus Fokin Christ! You ppl (CCP) are fokin mrns! I understand that the economical crysis has a bad impact on business BUUUUUUT maybe you dumb arses should spend the money you already get from us (subscription fees) on making EVE-Online a better gaming experience and not on bullshts like redesigning and recoloring (in worse) the UI, redesigning the ship models (who cares?! - it's the same crap), totally useless Incarna, Dust514, World of Darkness, etc. You get enough money from subscriptions, what`s this bullsht with annual fees for 3rd party applications?

I play EVE-Online since 2003, I might just be one of the oldest players still around and I swear on God for the last 3-4 years you ppl just keep coming up with dumber and dumber ideas. I love the game but I HATE you CCP for ruining it. You are acting just like drug dealers, "here, take the API, it's good for you, it will make you feel amazing AAAANNNDDD it's FREE... for now, after you develop an addiction we'll charge your ass for it".

I don't get it, why do you need to charge for something that don't cost you anything? Oh, I know why! Cos your are not thinking GAMING anymore, you are just thinking business! I hope all you ppl go banckrupt!

Devil tiger
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:15:00 - [921]
 

Edited by: Devil tiger on 16/06/2011 14:18:53
Edited by: Devil tiger on 16/06/2011 14:18:06
Edited by: Devil tiger on 16/06/2011 14:16:32

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



I couldn't agree more and as my support for the fan-devs here's a nice theme music for this thread courtesy of Sepultura

refuse/resist

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:19:00 - [922]
 

If this has already been mentioned then I am sorry.. But I don't want to go through 30 pages to look for it.

FYI if you try to go to the link (for the dev-blog) from the login front-end of the game client, it takes you to a "This blog entry does not exist" error page.

See it fine just following the link off here though.

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:20:00 - [923]
 

'EVE Forever' just got added a less than infinite lifespan. I hope for your jobs sake (although I heard working for CCP isn't all that what's cracked up to be) Incarna does actually manages to attract new audiences.

I haven't seen the Micro$oft for a while now, guess it's time for the new one; €€P


Krythas
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:20:00 - [924]
 

And just to add my $0.05

If you could clarify what actually is required or get a free license would be helpful. At the moment it looks like if you want to do _any_ meta gaming you'll have to pay and its not clear how much.

If you could tie things down like, wtf is a donation ? if I randomly give ISK to an alliance director to asssist in a ship replacement program (donation to an entity with in game currency) and the alliance has a forum that uses the eve images, suddenly does the corp owe $99/year ?

seriously CCP. of all the stupid things you've done this is pretty much top of the list.

I dare say this is not what you envisaged with the announcement but the way its worded doesnt leave much movement.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:23:00 - [925]
 

Edited by: Cailais on 16/06/2011 14:24:22
Dear CCP,

Your BizDev department are morons. If you wanted to screw Chribba et al out of $$$$$ it would have been more cost effective to have invited him over to Iceland, kicked him in the nuts and robbed his wallet.

You've turned the best MMO into a money grubbing cash machine. Well you can stick your snouts in the trough if you want but it won't be my $ you're getting.

Have fun watching your subscriber numbers fall through the floor. Very Happy

C.

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:31:00 - [926]
 

Um... MERCS?

Ga'len
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:34:00 - [927]
 

CCP,

Next time, why don't you start a dev blog like this with the following lanugage at the very beginning:

THIS IS NOT CURRENT POLICY, THIS IS A DRAFT! PLESSE COMMENT AS WE WISH TO COLLABORATIVELY DEVELOP THIS POLICY.

That statement alone would have resulted in 25 less pages on this thread and would have gotten you more useful and less painful comments.


Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:37:00 - [928]
 

You upset Chribba... nuff said...

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:37:00 - [929]
 

== snip ==
The current (AKA original) EVE forums will remain on eveonline.com in an archived state for read-only reference. There will be a grace period between the opening the new forums and freezing the old ones, giving you advance notice for when the migration will happen. Exact dates are TBA; we will keep you posted on the exact time of when the old forums will close.
== snip ==

So they are going to close the old forums. Round two of enforcing the new forum crap upon paying customers.

I'm going to delete my older forum posts here again right now -- as long as I can.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=920&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=update&utm_content=devblog&utm_campaign=eveonline

Selthae
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2011.06.16 14:37:00 - [930]
 

Originally by: Adrie Atticus
Originally by: Viktor Klimenko
No CCP people chiming in? Where are you hiding?


Believe it or not, they're asnwering on the beta forums, Spitrife replied at least 3 times on the first page of this thread's continuation:

https://testforums.evegate.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=11682


Lol. Cheapshot:
Cannot
Communicate
Properly


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