open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Dev Track Feedback: Monetizing Your Apps and Services
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 18 19 20 21 [22] 23 24 25 26 ... : last (49)

Author Topic

Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2011.06.16 03:51:00 - [631]
 

The prevailing myth/theme on this thread seems to be that CCP suck and the players are wonderful.

I'd like to dissent by saying that in my experience, it has often been the other way around.


EVE players - you are not as awesome as you seem to think you are. And CCP deserve more respect than you give them.

Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.06.16 03:55:00 - [632]
 

My biggest issue with this is the cost and the length of time and we aren't getting anything more other then formal permission to monetize. I would want to be able to purchase with a PLEX code or two, it should last longer then a year. I would also like to see additional incentives thrown in such as shorter cache timers, private api servers, access to some special apis, maybe sooner access to some apis.

Has ccp ever considered setting up something to show case some of the 3rd party apps? Such as a directory or something. The community developed stuff is one of the things that sets EVE apart from all of the other MMOs. Its such a big sandbox that productivity software is developed. Just like the corporations in RL, EVE corporations seek out software to give them an edge.

danyalsun
Posted - 2011.06.16 03:57:00 - [633]
 

Edited by: danyalsun on 16/06/2011 04:02:46
Edited by: danyalsun on 16/06/2011 03:59:06
Dropping by to say **** YOU CCP. You're greedy.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:01:00 - [634]
 

Originally by: Admiral Leviathan
In fact, I could stop using all 3rd party apps if they forced me to pay even 1 cent, JUST because it would force me to divulge some sort of info about my money. I already take a risk when I pay you and have no interest in giving someone else my paypal or cc info.


If CCP was to sell subscription codes through the EVE Ingame Store, you wouldn't need to divulge any information. The API would simply tell the application, "yes, that token for a subscription to your website is valid." Thus your only credit-card transaction would be with CCP, who you already divulge that information to.

Alternately, you would have no credit card transaction involved since you bought Aurum off someone else for ISK, then traded that Aurum for the subscription code.

Or heck, maybe you took part in a lottery for a year's subscription to Site X. All that matters is that the subscription code is valid, it doesn't matter who uses it to subscribe.

Captain Mung
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:05:00 - [635]
 

]I've re-read through the original blog and the "edit", the gist of it seems to be:


DEVELOPERS:

Hey CCP we've developed lots of cool, needed tools and services for your game that your players wanted because you didn't/weren't able to provide them!


CCP:

**** YOU.

PREPARE TO GIVE US MORE MONEY. BTW ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, WE JUST LIKE TO SCREW PEOPLE WHO SPEND THEIR FREE TIME DEVELOPING THINGS OUR PLAYERS WANT LOLOOOOLOLOL.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:05:00 - [636]
 

Originally by: Johnathan Roark
Has ccp ever considered setting up something to show case some of the 3rd party apps?


A "third party products" section of the EVE Ingame Store would serve this function in the same way as the iTunes App Store or the Apple App Store.

Allow capsuleers to review the product, rate it, etc.

Altus Morningstar
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:08:00 - [637]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

I'd just like to take this moment to state in a very clear manner what it is you are doing here:
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



I read the dev blog and I still can't under stand WHY they think this is a good idea? Guys, make the game, support the API, let the community do the rest or ffs implement tools like EVEMon and EFT into the game already.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:10:00 - [638]
 

Originally by: Captain Mung
CCP:

**** YOU.

PREPARE TO GIVE US MORE MONEY. BTW ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, WE JUST LIKE TO SCREW PEOPLE WHO SPEND THEIR FREE TIME DEVELOPING THINGS OUR PLAYERS WANT LOLOOOOLOLOL.


I read it as being more like, "here's our first take at this idea, written by the guys in marketing who until today didn't realise that sites like EVE-Search, EVE-Central, or Dotlan Evemaps existed, much less are produced by their authors for the love of the game."

My prediction of the upcoming revision to the devblog is that it will amount to something along the lines of, "oh wow! there are people out there who write this stuff for the love of the game? Who knew? And who's this Chribba guy?"

With any luck someone at CCP will have the brilliant idea of running future dev blogs past the CSM before releasing them to the public. At least then they get the "ARE YOU F—ING SERIOUS" feedback from a small group of people who can be trusted to not ***** about CCP (instantly) for coming up with boneheaded ideas.

Sciencegeek deathdealer
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:11:00 - [639]
 

This. Will. Kill. EVE.

Da Death
Minmatar
Relentless Enterprises
Ore Federation
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:15:00 - [640]
 

Quote:
Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license? Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.


ahh, the egg is killing the chicken

rantuket
Caldari
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:19:00 - [641]
 

Wow, you guys are really bad at this game.

If anything YOU (ccp) should be paying the guys who add so much more functionality to the game. Start with giving the guys at EVEmon and EFT free hosting for their app and pay all their related fees then work your way through the gigantic ****ing list.

Making people pay for providing content has just crossed the line into full-blown-******ation.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:21:00 - [642]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Casod Sutherland
CCP, have you thought about whether your "non-commercial clickwrap agreement" will be compatible with FOSS licenses like the GPL? Because if it isn't, popular third-party applications that use GPL code, like EveMon and Pyfa, will be in a lot of trouble and may well have to shut down.
I won't claim to be an expert, but first impression is that there shouldn't be much problems with it for most things. It doesn't seem like they're restricting developers' rights to distribute or modify the code they create, only how you use them to access CCP-provided data, but I'm not entirely sure how the GPL handles those kinds of inherited dependencies…

If you split it into a "framework" and "content" kind of model, it sounds like it should be pretty safe: you are free to GPL the framework; if you want to feed that framwork with CCP content, you need to get a CCP license. But the question is, if the framework is of no use without that data — i.e. you're creating GPL code that can only be used with the RPC and data provided by CCP — how does the GPL handle that? After all, you're not restricting the distribution or code, which is what the GPL is primarily worried about, but the code serves no purpose for people who aren't licensed to draw on CCP-owned data.


The GPL and most other OSI licenses don't restrict the data that an application 'dips into'. Also they don't attempt to spread the license through the data. API calls are a perfectly normal data interface that can make Open Source Software and Proprietary software co-exist.

I wonder what knowledge you have about the free license. I haven't seen it myself, so it's impossible to say how restricting it is. I asked on the first page myself.
It's not unheard of that free to use development licenses specifically forbids sharing source code, or includes other NDA elements that would make Open Source development impossible. The fact that the blog mentions that non-profit developers need a free license in the first place makes me worry a bit. That shouldn't really be necessary.

But it's all guesswork on my part and impossible to tell without seeing the actual wording of the license.

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:26:00 - [643]
 

Originally by: Captain Mung
]I've re-read through the original blog and the "edit", the gist of it seems to be:


DEVELOPERS:

Hey CCP we've developed lots of cool, needed tools and services for your game that your players wanted because you didn't/weren't able to provide them!


CCP:

**** YOU.

PREPARE TO GIVE US MORE MONEY. BTW ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, WE JUST LIKE TO SCREW PEOPLE WHO SPEND THEIR FREE TIME DEVELOPING THINGS OUR PLAYERS WANT LOLOOOOLOLOL.


Indeed.

CCP, what is the matter with you?!?Sad

Malrock
Caldari
Mea Culpa Enigma
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:27:00 - [644]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
I find it very, very difficult to filter out my frustration at this time, so the following post is emotionally raw.

You guys at CCP really don't ****ing get it, do you.

We don't play EVE Online, your product, your bread and butter and sole source of income until World of Darkness and Dust 514 come online, because you're great; these last three years have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that CCP is anything but great.

Amen to that brother.

Players don't make these tools on the grounds of making money (though compensation for website operational costs and ISK donations are a fair place to make up some of the difference). Players make these tools for the game because the SOCIAL INTERACTIONS IN EVE ONLINE are the GLUE THAT HOLDS THIS HALF-ASSED EXPERIENCE TOGETHER! You know the EVE China phenomenon? Your bull**** stinks so hard by now that people are willing to drop everything they have on Tranquility just to get away from those ****ING MICROTRANSACTIONS AND THIS HORRIBLE WASTE OF RESOURCES THAT INCARNA HAS TURNED OUT TO BE. We're only STILL HERE because of some SHRED of goodwill to the game and the experiences we have together.

AND NOW YOU THINK THAT ITS THE RIGHT TIME TO MAKE MONEY OFF THE PEOPLE TRYING TO FILL IN THE GAPS IN YOUR ****TY MMORPG?

Who is the ******* who decided to try to monetize everything about EVE Online to the detriment of the experience? Who is the bastard in charge of the corporate greed brigade at CCP, blind to everything good about CCP and EVE Online and incapable of seeing anything but dollar signs in front of their eyes? Who is the ******* who didn't step in to say "no, this will hurt EVE Online?" Either way, congratulations; you are fast tracking EVE Online to extinction. You've extinguished almost all enthusiasm people have for EVE Online as a hobby. EVE Online may be addicting, and the social web may be unique to EVE, but at the end of the day, nobody here needs you. Hell, at this rate, EVE Online won't even BELONG to you for long; Electronic Arts will be able to buy the game and Intellectual Property up in no time at all.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:38:00 - [645]
 

Cosmoes dug this jewel up from the past and posted it in another thread:

CCP Used to parody companies that did this

Figured with all the money grabbing comments it was fitting to link it here.


BTW-- OMG--You even ticked Chribba off.... Mr Eve is mad!

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:40:00 - [646]
 

TL;DR all the comments. Sorry. It's late. :P

I for one am all for the concept of offering a commercial license to encourage developers to make use of the data offered by Eve Online to its players. It makes sense since a lot of us developers, frankly, have better ideas of how to handle your data than you do. No offense is meant by that - it's just our thing - you're thing is collecting said data ;)

I, for one, have zero opposition to the $99/yr fee. Frankly, that's low in contrast to what one might expect to pay for API access to data you are then, essentially, allowed to monetize. You can't even get access to an IP<->City lookup service for that price... and that information is public record <g>. So, I'm guessing a lot of people have griped about $99/yr given the updates to the blog. That's unfortunate. I can attest that even at $99/yr - the number of developers is limited so it's not like you're going to even make money on this venture - you're more likely to lose a little no matter what you charge.

Having said that, however, let me also say this. For $99/yr I would expect CCP will listen to the many, many suggestions and requests for data from the API from said developers instead of generally ignoring us and doing whatever you think is best for us? I only mention this because, again, we often know how to use your data better than you do (bot report tools, agent finders and others which CCP has or will soon be adding to the game itself, for examples) and having access to certain other data points in Eve would open up new avenues of development we have, thus far, been unable to explore.

I do not agree with being charged a $99/yr (or any other) fee for sites which accept payment in ISK. That falls well within the scope of the current EULA, otherwise Chribba and several others would be p*ssing themselves and you wouldn't have any of the tools online supporting Eve you currently have (e.g. killboards, forums, etc.) :)

I'm on the fence with Donation and Ad driven sites to be honest. Eve online doesn't really have a market outside of Eve online - in other words - the only thing that could possibly be advertised on an ad site would be... Eve online. It's the only thing that's relevant to the data you provide. Donations are tricky - on the one hand you are providing your intellectual property for the developer to use, but on the other hand the developer is putting in a lot of his or her time to develop and maintain the tools and websites that make use of said data - especially during upgrades. So in this instance there is risk for both stakeholders which would seem to cancel each other out. Again, the chances of anyone making a significant profit off of donations is about as good as making significant profit off of ads. Neither is really going to be possible or really viable at making large sums of money (much to the chagrin of the developers, I'm sure lol). So, meh - I don't see charging $99/yr to people who run these, essentially not-for-profit, type of sites supported by donations or advertisement.

Speaking of upgrades - will licensed developers have early access to upcoming changes that affect the API?

I'm pleased to see CCP stepping up to the plate and providing this kind of elaboration on the TOS/EULA. It's a smart move for CCP because it gives you more advertising and brand recognition in exchange for using your IP - and maybe, just maybe, it'll give the Chinese something better to do besides run RMT sites ;)

Thank you for bringing this to our attention and for allowing this discussion to happen. Aside from exposing more data to open up additional development opportunities (and thereby more advertising opportunities for you) and nailing down what constitutes an actual commercial site to license, I think you're on a great path. I look forward to learning more about this offering in the near future... especially since I'm running a handful of non-commercial Eve sites and/or tools these days ;)


Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:53:00 - [647]
 

Originally by: Vandrion

BTW-- OMG--You even ticked Chribba off.... Mr Eve is mad!


!!! They p*ssed off Chribba!?! Man... I gotta come back in the morning and read all these posts lol. I didn't think ****ing of Chribba was even possible! :P

Kaahles
Deliverers of Pain
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:53:00 - [648]
 

Usually I'm pretty exited about changes even the controversial ones. The microtransaction thingy for example. It's something I really hate especially in subscription based games but even there I can understand why you're doing it but this one... just NO! So here we go:

Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.


Greg lawlers
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:58:00 - [649]
 

Originally by: Captain Mung
]I've re-read through the original blog and the "edit", the gist of it seems to be:


DEVELOPERS:

Hey CCP we've developed lots of cool, needed tools and services for your game that your players wanted because you didn't/weren't able to provide them!


CCP:

**** YOU.

PREPARE TO GIVE US MORE MONEY. BTW ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, WE JUST LIKE TO SCREW PEOPLE WHO SPEND THEIR FREE TIME DEVELOPING THINGS OUR PLAYERS WANT LOLOOOOLOLOL.


QFT

CCP doesn't listen to anything but money, and the easiest way to get their attention is to unsubscribe en masse when you're upset over their shenanigans. that being said anyone who wishes to quit for real, send me your isk and i'll aspode it for you.

~truly

Lawlers

Akira Samposeppa
Gallente
Arthashastra
Posted - 2011.06.16 05:24:00 - [650]
 

As far as i understand this.
if you want to run a "free" service for the players on a "free" servers, you have to alow ads on your site and thus pay ccp 99$.

So there will not be anymore free services (maps/evemon/killboards/marketsearch, etc) for players.

Thus...every service will cost you some money.

So...alongside 15$ subscription youll have to pay lets say...
3$ dotlan maps,
5$ evemon,
4$ eft,
1$ my desktop widget for skill check,
3$ evecentral market,
4$ your killboard.

And if you do not use this services you have a direct ingame disatvantage as oposed to other players.

Alongside microtransactions that will only expand more and more and take more and more parts of the game, eve will become game only for people that are willing to cash out 50$ or more monthly on a computer game.

Yeah right...you cant imagine how much people will want to play "that" game, everybody will come in flocks to subscribe to eve.
...right?

Kaahles
Deliverers of Pain
Posted - 2011.06.16 05:24:00 - [651]
 

Edited by: Kaahles on 16/06/2011 05:28:41
Almost forgot... What's next? EVE's own app store were CCP grabs 30% of the income? Would be the next step right? So why not get it over with and kill the game finally so we can go move on to the next one?

I mean seriously guys common there is absolutely no point whatsoever in doing this unless you want to get rid of the most popular tools / services. I write a nice nifty little tool, available to everyone just because I like coding and because I'm a nice guy. Need a free license for that one no big deal. Over time the tool/service becomes popular and my server traffic spikes on a regular basis. I need to migrate to a larger hosting option, pay for more traffic and that kind of stuff is not cheap. So eventually I will be forced to use affiliate programs like shattered crystal or general advertising to remotely break even. At that point you guys step in and kill us off with another 99 bucks? Yeah... right. If I could afford that sort of money I'd be doing smartphone apps and selling them ffs.

Unless... you want those developers to stop producing the tools they make right now. Dust is about to hit and EVE Gate will be point of mutual community interactions right? But imagine this most of the tools/features/services that make EVE Gate so great are already provided by 3rd parties so nobody or almost nobody is gonna use it. Unless you get rid of them.

Maybe it's just over imagination on my part this early in the morning but now I'm definetly gonna go and get my tinfoil hat, the pair of conspiracy glasses laying around somewhere... and where's that frickin' rage-bat Shocked

EditOh and what about that stupid license? It better not be clashing with stuff like GPL, MIT License or other popular OpenSource licenses as that alone would probably kill off projects like EVE Mon. On the other hand if that's the case only the more reason to put on that tinfoil hat. Found it btw.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.16 05:27:00 - [652]
 

Originally by: Vandrion
Cosmoes dug this jewel up from the past and posted it in another thread:

CCP Used to parody companies that did this


The complaint about spawning ingame objects using microtransactions is topic for the thread on microtransactions, and has nothing to do with "monetizing" third party products. Your linking that here indicates your failure to comprehend the issue this thread is dealing with.

Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.16 05:32:00 - [653]
 

Guys, i think they ****ed of chribba. If you guys force Chribba to pay a single cent to you for his sites. Consider eve officially dead and dont even bother making new expansions, and start looking for new jobs.


SO CCP I would suggest who ever decided to put this into plan, you send him to your shanghai office and make him a janitor.

Dorn Val
Posted - 2011.06.16 05:38:00 - [654]
 

Originally by: Ix Forres
Some good stuff, some bad stuff. But mostly, too little too late. Most third party developers have left already or stopped working on their tools long ago.


This. Still ****ed off at you guys for the way you jerked around the developers of Capsuleer.

Also, IMHO, I don't think you should charge real life money unless someone is getting paid in real life money. Even sites that ask for a donation should get a free license (not like those folks are laughing all the way to the bank). GTC sellers should be exempt from fees as well, since any increase in their overhead will get passed to us.

Still trying to figure out why this move to a 3rd party license is going to be so expensive for you...

Aerick Dawn
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.16 05:41:00 - [655]
 

congrats on jumping the shark, I knew you could do it. (if you implement this crap)

Should I get a license for a shared google doc?

Callidus Dux
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.16 05:46:00 - [656]
 

Edited by: Callidus Dux on 16/06/2011 05:58:37
Dear CCP,

so you want to make money with other peoples work? If you do this you should think about the following:

- Give us back our money if you are NOT be able to provide YOUR owed service like keep running the server or excessive downtimes / patch times.
- Give Us back our money if YOU offline the API server.
- Give us money if WE should do the work of YOUR Dev team and test all the ****ty crap on the test server SISI.
- Do your work faster, when repeatedly someone loses his Ship because you do an emergency reboot without any advance notice.


You want money for your service. THAN WE WANT MONEY IF YOU DO NOT PROVIDE YOUR SERVICE If you now want to get paid for external work!
Shure.. CCP is not always responsible for all the serverdowns here.. But this is also NOT MY fault. And I pay for this. Got it CCP?

Best regards
a Customer Smile

Oh.. nearly forgotten:


Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.



Dasola
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.16 05:54:00 - [657]
 

Hmm ccp delusions again.

If your going to charge, then can we as paying customers expect you fellows actyally start updateing and maintaining your api documentation? Have you taken a look at official api wiki page lately? PLANK... Infact i all ready pay cash for play this game and still no official api documentation.

On personal note, charging 99$ a year for something that uses ingame isk donations for funding sounds pretty stupid idea. Witch marketing monkey came up this BS idea?

Grazulations CCP, you just killed 3rd party app development on eve completely. I was going to start writing my own industrial process management system, but since this change - better scrap that idea. ugh

I dont understand why does CCP feel need to make things more difficult then they need to be.


NoobPwn
Posted - 2011.06.16 06:05:00 - [658]
 

They think they are the creator of the universe, yet failed to realize that it is just a game.

Dorn Val
Posted - 2011.06.16 06:07:00 - [659]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: CCP Atlas
So, what's going on in my feedback thre... HOLY CRAP, 9 pages of hate! ShockedShockedShocked


I think you misspelled valuable customer feedback there...


This. Pathetic that you make jokes about feedback when you get pages of it CCP...

Edisonn Trent
Posted - 2011.06.16 06:07:00 - [660]
 

Just noticed

Quote:
Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?

Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.


This is versed so strangely, that eventually CCP might even bill people for accepting courier contrats or selling stuff on the market Laughing

Terrible devblog. Doesn't dissipate any potential concerns.


Pages: first : previous : ... 18 19 20 21 [22] 23 24 25 26 ... : last (49)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only