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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:32:00 - [541]
 

Edited by: Copine Callmeknau on 15/06/2011 23:43:41
Originally by: Sarina Rhoda
also QFT
Originally by:

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Originally by: Chribba
ok seriously, I've like Ctrl+A, backspace this post 5 times now, tbh I'm out of words.

I would like to know how many 3rd party developer/sites are doing it for the ****ing awesome income it generates?! Seriously, this if anything WILL kill development of sites and services.

As a creator of sites/applications/services for New Eden since well over 6 years now, I can tell you that I have never once created something with the goal to make money off it, this whole thing about needing a license to make something for the community is just ****ing ******ed! Just hearing this makes my interest/will for developing things crash.

This is not about the $99, this is about how you want to charge me because I want to do something for the community out of my free will - does that sense? Do you feel I am stealing your IP, making massive amounts of money off your IP? Then tell me straight up, don't try to bind it into some fluffy clouds and call it "great news".

Every IPO in Market Discussions will now require a license, since after all, it's donations. Corporations should get a license too, I mean having a corp tax of >0.0% could be seen as a donation to the corporation...

And yeah, I guess me and everyone else with an EVE IP tattoo will need a license, I mean, some other geek may think it's awesome and want to buy me a beer...

I'm just very sad to see this even being discussed, talk about a punch in the face. Don't get me wrong, I see your point of EVE IP, and yes I can agree that it may need to be controlled to some extent, but this is not the way. Not by far.

/c


Originally by:

You need us more than we need you. Do NOT charge the people who are covering up your incompetence.


Food for thought CCP........

I QFT your QFT

Originally by: Tipsy

CCP has responded to the generosity of those that contribute most to the EVE community by proposing to force them to either charge for what they produce, undermining the community spirit, or pay CCP for the privilege of working to add value to their game at an even greater personal cost.


Also QFT

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:35:00 - [542]
 

So after now having read through various replies, additional discussion with other 3rd party developers, pilots and CCP, and also gotten the chance to wind down a bit from the very sudden message on my phone while I was in the car - 'ccp really has done it now!' here's some additional thoughts.

Note that I direct this to CCP as a company, and not to CCP Atlas or any other member of the bizdev team directly.
Also, these are my personal views, I do not speak for others even though I do know that I have others thinking the same things.


Firstly, you seriously need to make a DISTINCT difference of in-game and out-of-game payment/donation/fees. I personally don't see any legitimate reason for me to like pay a license fee in order to run my in-game 3rd-party service that generate me ISK income in-game.

I see reasons to why you for example would want to license me for EVEBoard, after all I am using your API, thus taking data, displaying it on my website "kinda" as my own, but still free for every pilot to use, browse, love or hate. And oh yeah, it does have some Google Adverts that does nudge a bit of the monthly billing I have (and yes I know it's not really a reason since I'm doing this on free will). So, yeah I'd be up for discussion about things like this for sure.

Having had the honor of being with both you and the community since 2003, I have seen EVE grow, and tbh we wouldn't be nowhere where we are today if it wasn't for the tools you provided to us pilots to enable us to create such great things as EFT, EVEMon, dotlan, GTS, EveHQ, spreadsheets and so on.

And I know from my personal developments that I would never have thought about it if the first thing I needed was to pay a license fee. I've launched sites, both successful and sites no one remembers. I would not have been able to try out the failed ones nor enjoyed the success of the living ones if I you hadn't enabled me to give it a shot, fail or not.

With a license, most of any future idea will never become more than just an idea.

I love CCP, to me you are the most awesome gaming company around, you provide your customers with an amazing set of tools, features, experiences, humor and you offer yourselves to your customers like no one else - that is something special, that is what makes your customers loyal, and keep wanting to support your (at times) crazy ideas.

But, scrambling (yeah throwing in some pvp here) the part of the player base that of their own free will wish to push the game further ahead, showing just why OUR game is the best game out there - that is plain stupid.

This said, I must admit that I am still a bit confused what exactly you are looking to achieve with this, it was requested so that we could start charging for things we do for free? Yeah I see the point, but I can't recall seeing much discussion about this being a big wants from 3pd's, and I can only see a handful of direct services that would use this "option".

At least I have no intention of charging the users of my sites, and rather shut down them than forcing the users to pay me to keep it online. But by the looks I still would need a license, since of course I won't say no if someone wants to aid me a bit by donating some money to keep up with the costs of running them... and I'm not the only one.

What I really thing you need to do, is sit down and have a serious discussion with the people this will affect initially, I would like to see myself as such a person, and I'd be happy to pay for my own flight and meet up with you and others to discuss this if that is the problem.

Scrap this draft, invite people to a sane discussion and maybe just start with the topic 'so you want to charge for your <application>, what is the best way to do it?' (and yes I admit that I didn't follow this Dev Track thing, and not sure if it was a discussion or presentation, but regardless, it needs to be redone).

Sorry for the wall-o.

/c

Slave Poor
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:36:00 - [543]
 

CCP are serious? $99!!! Please quit trolling your users!

How about a reduction ($0) for students? I've been waiting for the API revamp so I could build a free powerful HTML5 web app (platform independent) and now you're completely crushing my plans.

With the options you've laid out, I won't even be able to collect money to fund that stupid fee. Quit taking lessons from apple and be truly friendly to your users and developers.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:36:00 - [544]
 

Edited by: Gnulpie on 15/06/2011 23:39:24
Originally by: CCP Atlas
3) This project is not about CCP making money. Whether we charge $100 or $50 or $10 for a commercial license won't make a big difference to our balance sheet.


Then why charge anything at all?

You would save yourself a lot of trouble if you just give out free commercial and non-commercial licenses.

If it is not money you gain there, then what else is it you so desperately want? RL names? What for? You won't catch the real criminals anyway, or do you really think they are going to apply for a license?!

Gerome Doutrande
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:37:00 - [545]
 

Fire your "biz dev department". They're clueless.

Arec Bardwin
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:37:00 - [546]
 

Originally by: Sarina Rhoda

So you are charging people who actualy cover up your mistakes and make this game enjoyable and playable... GJ

A list of tools that i think CCP messed up on by not having somthing similar in game include:

EFT
Dotlan
Evemon
killboard

If had to pay for these tools to make my game work as well as my supscription fees i would de-sub in a heart beat.

You forgot the jump planner. It's almost impossible to do this ingame.

Valdamerca
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:37:00 - [547]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
Originally by: Valdamerca
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.


Originally by: Sorakage

You need us more than we need you. Do NOT charge the people who are covering up your incompetence.



Your damage control does not impress.


this

As the devblog was created by neanderthals(marketing lol) you must make sure they do not forget..

Al Gizza
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:38:00 - [548]
 

Shame on you CCP

With EVE being a sandbox universe, how does this paying $99 a year fit it?

The tools and the sites made by eve-fans make eve a enjoyable game, instead of the tiresome job it can be to keep records, calculating, timing etc. etc. on/for loot, mining, pos, alliance, research/manufactoring jobs, etc. etc.

CCP, plz forget this idea, focus on maintaining EVE, remove some of the clickfests, and listnen to your customers, as said several times in this tread: you cant live without us, but we can live without you.

I love eve, and has for 7.5 yrs, but ideas like this makes me wonder if you love me.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:41:00 - [549]
 

Originally by: Holy One
Originally by: Xia Long
First of all thanks to u guys who developed what makes EVE playable, talking of Wollari, Chribba,Kronus and everyone else!!

then just to keep it visible
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats





Only if they seek to profit from it. The non-commercial license is free. Just like anyone else, CCP has to protect it's IP. Licensing is the easiest way to do it. The nominal fee is purely that.

You all moaned like ****y little girls when capsuleer was forced to CAD, now there is a system being proposed which would mean apps like that could legitimately go on sale for practically nothing (assuming you intend to make money). What's the issue?

A few small projects can either stop making money ie. stop advertising or charging for their utilities and genuinely be 'free'. Or pay a nominal fee to obtain a license and be legit and be free to attempt to obtain as much revenue as they like either as profit or for costs etc.

Most businesses do not tolerate third party projects piggy-backing on their IP or resources. CCP has been a bit dizzy in the past to be perfectly honest - they've risked their copyright and other rights by not enforcing a licensing system long before now.






Try again, if you allow donations, or use ads to support the costs of hosting a site/etc you need a commercial license even if you don't force anyone to pay you anything.

I didn't give a **** when capsuleer CAD I thought if they wanted profits or to be paid they should have looked at the way things had been done for years everything was on them the best they could hope for was ads or donations that were voluntary only.

Again the issue is not everyone seeks to make money many just seek some contribution to their efforts be it isk, $$ donations supporting their work, or clicking ****ing ads to pay a tiny bit of their costs. Oh and not to be told "you owe us $99 for making our game more fun/conveinant/playable on your own dime".

Why is it you insist that anyone with ads is 'making money' after they pay for hosting/etc and their own time/effort making/supporting the product? Not everyone wants to force players to pay them for the things they do they'd just like some help from willing players and not to have to pay CCP for the chance to spend their time making something that enhances CCP's game for CCP's players.

Most companies might not but then they step up to fill that void, doing the work themselves or hiring/paying others to do it. CCP hasn't they were fine letting players work for free so long as they didn't profit from their work on CCP's IP now they claim that donations, ads, isk are 'profits' and need to be 'fined' $99 for contributing to the community for so long.



Arimathea Anthalas
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:41:00 - [550]
 

You guys are out of your damn minds. I'm amazed you have the chutzpah to try to do something like this.

Salene Gralois
K-2
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:42:00 - [551]
 

Originally by: Edisonn Trent
In before CCP offers EULA-legal bots for 99$ a year.


Now I suddenly find myself missing the +1 button of the old new forum.

Leon Razor
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:45:00 - [552]
 

Edited by: Leon Razor on 15/06/2011 23:48:40
I'm really not sure what I think of this announcement. I think it's good that CCP is giving developers a way to make money from their work, but this could have some bad side effects.

First, it doesn't really make sense to charge the $99 fee for services that deal completely in isk. I always admired the out of game extensions of EVE where isk could buy useful services that were not included in the client. Now, developers are already paying for hosting and it would be nice if they could recoup those costs by asking for donations and getting ad revenue. If this is already allowed, good. If CCP makes them pay $99 a year then they have the right since the dev is making money off CCP IP.

However, if developers are allowed to charge real money for using their products or services, then this is no different than pay-to-win features. Think about how upset everyone got when CCP said they would temporally offer a ship for AUR. This is a real money -> ship conversion that didn't even give unique in game advantages. Now imagine you have to pay a real money subscription for dotlan. This is a real money -> clear advantage conversion. Even worse then than the scorpion for AUR idea.

Third party services are a top reason why I feel my EVE subscription fee is more than worth paying, but I think my attitude would change if all of a sudden I had to pay for EVE Mon, dotlan, EFT, etc. With the new micotransactions comming down the pipe from DUST and AUR, I don't think my wallet could handle this change.

Varralee
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:46:00 - [553]
 

You let yourself get taken down by script kiddies

Dust 514 PS3 only

Now you want 99 bucks from the people who make the tools that actually make this game playable.


You are having about the biggest week of fail ever.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:51:00 - [554]
 

Originally by: Lederstrumpf
a company who can't even guarantee 24/7 uptime of their own website?
plz link to a site that does?

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
* * Differentiate between different classes of licensee; there are probably three: those who charge a RL$ fee, those who accept RL$ donations or sell ads (especially to cover costs), and those who charge in-game fees or accept in-game donations. One price does not fit all, and arguably all but the first should be free or a token ($1).
This summarises my feelings nicely: it gives 3p-devs the opportunity to charge if they feel their product is worthy.


Spec 593357629
Exiled.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:51:00 - [555]
 

Let me run a scenario by you for a minute;

So I'm running a big time pro clan in Battlefield/Call of doodoo. Were well organized we have a teamspeak server, and a website/forums for the clan to use. Pretty cool, Now me and my clan sees Dust 514 and we decide, ohh wow this game looks really sick. So we say yeah lets all try this as a clan you know play together. So then I announce that because we want to migrate over to Dust as a clan we have to pay extra fees to host our website that were hosting out of our own pocket.

I'm sure that will go over really well with my clan. considering that we can all get copies of Battlefield 3 for roughly the same price and we don't have to chip in extra to cover licence fees. Or even better I have to make 2 clan websites now 1 for the players who want to play Dust 514, (you have to pay 10$ a year to sign up for) and then 1 that's absolutely free for Battlefield 3.

Sounds like a recipe for a dead clan to me.

You know what I get it, you need to have some kind of model that works out for the legal team.
But really at this point you might as well be telling us that you want to roll back to pre 2004 eve and remove the overview. Unless of course I pay a small monthly fee to use it. Or better yet why not just start charging for the use of EVE mail ?

I've got a great idea, why don't you head over to White Wolf's forums and announce a similar model for World of darkness. See how that goes over with them, then come back and talk to us. ITs not like World of Darkness has any fan-sites does it ?

maybe you should think this over before you take a dump in all our collective cereal..

OR you could just pull the plug on this and get to work screwing up World of Darkness so no one want to play that either.





Tier Eins
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:54:00 - [556]
 

Why? If it's not about the money, why the legal crap? Do you really need this?

I always thought that you were different from other companies.
I thought all you wanted to do was build the ultimate virtual world.

Please don't turn CCP into the kind of company that sues it's customers for loving it's products. Don't do something just because the suits say you have to.
If there are any actual humans left in charge, I hope they realise where Eve is heading before it's too late.

My subscriptions are canceled.

Retnor Kilani
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:54:00 - [557]
 

I have an idea CCP. All the idea's you all have that you're thinking of trying out, please put it on the forums FIRST and see what your players/customers think about it before you dump a ton of resources/money on it to the point where there will be no way you'll not do it. Just a thought.


Dardanos Herakles
Caldari
The Dead Canary Mining Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:57:00 - [558]
 

Originally by: Varralee
You let yourself get taken down by script kiddies

Dust 514 PS3 only

Now you want 99 bucks from the people who make the tools that actually make this game playable.


You are having about the biggest week of fail ever.


^ this XD

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:58:00 - [559]
 

Originally by: Holy One
CCP has been a bit dizzy in the past to be perfectly honest - they've risked their copyright and other rights by not enforcing a licensing system long before now.



If the issue is "copyright and other rights" the na free liscense could easily be incorporated into the eula/tos or added to every API download even.

Since this is coming from BizDev=Marketing=Money not LawDev=Covering Our Asses I don't think it's reasonable to assume it is all about copyright.


Nilania Telshua
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:10:00 - [560]
 

Edited by: Nilania Telshua on 16/06/2011 00:23:20
Edited by: Nilania Telshua on 16/06/2011 00:14:49


Is this a new creative way to commit image-suicide ?


Players Like Chribba, Gripen and many many others.
have substantially contributed to establishing EVEs success,
without costing the company any cent.

Sites like eve-agents, eve-files, eve-search and applications like EFT meet needs of the playerbase that are essential due to the complex nature of EVE.

CCP can be lucky that players stepped up and
invested their time and competence to create applications to cover these needs.


The current license model in the devblog neglects to differentiate between:

Programs and Services that are
a) directly sold for real life cash.
b) indirectly financed by advertising instruments.
c) rewarded by optional donations of ingame money.
d) use elements of the eve-ip.

In the case of a) it is understandable that CCP would require a legal agreement and payment for the use of their IP.

In the case of b) the same desire could be seen as understandable, if the revenues could be expected to substantially exceed the operation cost of such player run services.

In any other case of b) and that of c) and d) I cannot see any reason, why CCP should seek legal protection of its IP, that is beyond such already granted by international and national copy right laws.


In combination with the Microtransactions and the fact that CCP already used double-think in the past (Feature:Unsubbed Training -> Bug:Ghost-Training) it is more than understandable, that especially the content provider feel insulted and the playerbase enraged by this license initiative.


Chribba and the more specialized others, are for good reasons some of the few celebrities in the eve-community, that are respected by everyone, even our most sociopathic members.

Smacking the heros of your playerbase and partners of your success in the face is not a clever move CCP.

Its even less clever to sacrifice the image of the "company that cares", which rallied in the past a lot of support for your actions from the playerbase, even against voices of reasons.

CCP might think, that Dust and Incarna will grow the playerbase to a point, where caring ceases to be relevant to its survival. Nevertheless it is not only unforeseeable if this could ever happen, but also even if, not happening for quite some time.

Naryamn
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:14:00 - [561]
 

Edited by: Naryamn on 16/06/2011 00:16:27
After deleting and writing 10 different aggressive posts expressing my opinions I ended with this:

"Suddenly, the LulzSec attacks make much more sense to me..."

Kara Liselle
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:17:00 - [562]
 

Edited by: Kara Liselle on 16/06/2011 00:17:59
"$99 is the lowest that we estimated that we could reasonably go and still justify the cost of the service."

Justify what cost? This is third party not a ccp service how is this an of your business? It is an out of game third party group of services ccp has no jurisdiction on. If eve was more complete and did not actually need these out of game services that would be a different story. How is me using eve-surival.org any of your business since you were too lax too include a compareable service in the programming?Mad

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:19:00 - [563]
 

Originally by: ccp
Why charge for the license at all?

The licensing fee is there to partially cover expenses from this initiative


I lol'd


Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:21:00 - [564]
 

Originally by: Ix Forres
Some good stuff, some bad stuff. But mostly, too little too late. Most third party developers have left already or stopped working on their tools long ago.


I can see this killing Dotlan and eve-files, with CCP, as usual wondering what the fuss is about as their customers slowly drift away.

The $99 yearly fee, plus the pathetic way this was announced (no surprise coming from CCP) very much gives me the feeling that CCP are utterly desperate for cash on the one hand, yet think they can somehow emulate the Apple and Android markets with one unreliable internet game that is run by a bunch of mentally defective Icelandic dwarves who communicate like Dali on acid on a good day.

I'm with Chribba on this; I'm utterly fcking speechless at the stupidity of this. The only high point is that moron Hilmar desparately trying to backpedal on his goddamn tweet of all places.

CCP: I challenge you to drop the act and own up to the financial situation your company is in. I don't see how you think that accounts paying the equivalent of $14 a month ($168 a year) now need to pay an extra $99 a year for services that aid your company that they were already doing for free. And trying to extort money from in-game services for ISK, where YOU YOURSELVES CLAIM THAT ISK CANNOT BE CONVERTED TO REAL LIFE MONEY is a good way to kill those services completely.

If you want to do this: ONLY CHARGE FOR SITES AND APPS THAT DIRECTLY CHARGE REAL MONEY FOR THEIR SERVICES!

NO CHARGE for in-game isk services.
NO CHARGE for sites that support themselves with Google ads
NO CHARGE for sites that allow voluntary donations.

OTHERWISE GO TO HELL.

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:23:00 - [565]
 

Edited by: Copine Callmeknau on 16/06/2011 00:30:56
Originally by: Holy One
Originally by: Xia Long
First of all thanks to u guys who developed what makes EVE playable, talking of Wollari, Chribba,Kronus and everyone else!!

then just to keep it visible
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats





Only if they seek to profit from it. The non-commercial license is free. Just like anyone else, CCP has to protect it's IP. Licensing is the easiest way to do it. The nominal fee is purely that.

You all moaned like ****y little girls when capsuleer was forced to CAD, now there is a system being proposed which would mean apps like that could legitimately go on sale for practically nothing (assuming you intend to make money). What's the issue?

A few small projects can either stop making money ie. stop advertising or charging for their utilities and genuinely be 'free'. Or pay a nominal fee to obtain a license and be legit and be free to attempt to obtain as much revenue as they like either as profit or for costs etc.

Most businesses do not tolerate third party projects piggy-backing on their IP or resources. CCP has been a bit dizzy in the past to be perfectly honest - they've risked their copyright and other rights by not enforcing a licensing system long before now.


For the record, you are a ****in idiot.

Hypothetical:
You use a free (ad-supported) 3'rd party website/app. It just so happens this website is invaluable to you and tens of thousands of other EVE players, this is because CCP never bothered spending the hours necessary to code this indispensable utility (could be anything, jumpplanner and EFT are two that spring to mind).
Now this utility is undeniably beneficial to the game as a whole, it's hard to imagine an EVE without this essential tool.

This tool costs the 3pd $100 per year in maintanence/server fees, this is paid out of his own pocket for the betterment of every other player in the game. Now lets say this 3pd is a student, or someone living in impoverished/3'rd world country. They cannot afford that kind of expense, so he decides to subsidise the costs with googleads, using ads he is able to bring his costs down to $30 per year, tight on this persons budget, but a cost he is willing to pay to make EVE a more accessible and entertaining game.

Now CCP comes along and tells him he must pay them $99 per year in addition to his server fees or they will take out an injunction against him for IP theft and potentially sue him.
His costs have now gone from $30 to $129 (more than original server costs, which are unaffordable to begin with).

He now has only 2 options left,
A) Discontinue the utility and all support for the utility
B) Attempt to charge the EVE community for use of the utility. A dubious proposition that requires many more hours of unpaid development for a secure payment/auth system, requires the unaffordable $99 license be purchased BEFORE any income is generated by the utility, and is in no way guaranteed to break even, or garner a single customer. EVE players are fickle


Let me get this straight, you think the above situation is fair and just? You'll continue to support this action by CCP after the most vital third party apps have been discontinued? You think that in a perfect world, 3pd's should toil (unpaid) for hours and days and weeks in order to develop and provide free utilities, then when server costs force them to advertise to keep things online, they should be taken to court by CCP for copyright violations?
You think it's a good decision by CCP to support and encourage these apps for almost a decade, and now turn around and demand 'your money or your life' as it were?

I might see a need for this, if you could cite a single example of CCP's EVE related intellectual property being used and exploited for some unaffiliated persons profit. And no ISK selling does not count.

Mac Aoidh
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:26:00 - [566]
 

Originally by: Sister Megarea
Well, I'm going to buck the trend here and say that I think this is actually a pretty decent idea. (Far, far better than the Aurum nightmare).

In a nutshell, the API is provided as an 'extra' - It's not needed for in-game play (which is what we pay for), it's certainly not provided for anywhere near all online games - So it's been a rather nice extra for all this time.

If CCP can make an extra few bucks - And more importantly - if indie developers can make a few bucks from it - I say more power to them.

Count me amongst those that really don't have an issue with this.


You're missing the larger picture here. Apps like EVEmon and EFT ARE needed for in game play. Developers fill the gap where CCP has neglected and without them, the game will no longer be as functional as it once was.

Nilania Telshua
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:31:00 - [567]
 

Edited by: Nilania Telshua on 16/06/2011 00:31:54
Originally by: Sister Megarea

In a nutshell, the API is provided as an 'extra' - It's not needed for in-game play


You certainly never have run a large and complex economic operation in eve. Without the api, juggling hundreds of orders or countless lab jobs and inventory would be near impossible.

Eve is not a normal game. Many small businesses in real life require much less administration than the larger economic operations in eve. Spreadsheets in Space is not term that was coined at random.

Naryamn
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:37:00 - [568]
 

Originally by: ccp
Why charge for the license at all?

The licensing fee is there to partially cover expenses from this initiative


Problem solved!

we didnt want this 'initiative'! Very Happy

Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:37:00 - [569]
 

I have questions. In the intrest of civility I will refrain from blatant trolling except to say when it comes to consumer rights I tend to fall somewhere between Ralph Nader and a gorilla on PCP. I will also assume, at least for the time being, that this is aimed at letting people legally sell apps and that screwing over killboards/Chribba/etc. was a marketing mistake and will be fixed directly.

1. Does this only apply to API-linked products or are you using the usual legal IPR definition of anything CCP ever made, is making, or thought about making once but immediately forgot? Consider for example my corp's killboard (which I coded and maintain myself), obviously it's related to eve but it takes copypaste KMs as input rather than API linkage. Do I now require a noncom license and the associated extra coding work integrating a clickwrap user license?

2. I want to know more about how you're defining "donation supported". If my killboard doesn't have a donate link but somebody sends me a few bucks or 500k isk for the lols, am I screwed if I don't have a com license? As multitudes have already said, few if any third-party sites even manage to break even let alone turn a profit and effectively banning donations is just going to **** off the entire community.

3. More of an editorial than a question, but the point needs to be made. You guys keep mentioning cost to maintain, etc. but that requires a very important distinction be made between your hosting and mine. Let's use another example, I had considered cooking up a smart salvage calculator that does a lot more than the ones normally available and could concievably charge an per-use "analysis fee" or whatever. Like the KB, this would be a PHP site on private hosting that I pay for out of pocket. While I would not be opposed to paying a licenssing fee if I charged USD and not ISK $100/year--almost double my current hosting costs--is a bit rich.



I guess what I'm getting at overall is there's a big difference between helping someone make a big pile of cash off Angry Birds: Eve Edition which gets hosted in the new official Eve app store for $.99 a download, and mucking about with guys like Chribba who pay 100% of the costs themselves. While the value of CCP's IPR itself is a valid discussion, the license system needs to take both models into account.

Outofphaze
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:37:00 - [570]
 

Originally by: Kara Liselle
Edited by: Kara Liselle on 16/06/2011 00:17:59
"$99 is the lowest that we estimated that we could reasonably go and still justify the cost of the service."

Justify what cost? This is third party not a ccp service how is this an of your business? It is an out of game third party group of services ccp has no jurisdiction on. If eve was more complete and did not actually need these out of game services that would be a different story. How is me using eve-surival.org any of your business since you were too lax too include a compareable service in the programming?Mad



Cost aside. CCP DOES in fact have jurisdiction to anything eve related due to copy write laws. CCP does have the right to control who can create 3rd party services because of said copy-write laws. I may be extremely ****ed about this as I have created several 3rd party sites for the eve community. That being said, sadly there's not much we can do about it


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