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Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:35:00 - [451]
 

This is just another form of microtransactions. Something that will require the player to pay to get an edge or advantage. Try to imagine playing EVE without EFT or EVE-Mon or jump planners. It isnít pretty.

CCP should be the ones paying these app developers because these apps should already be part of the game. Things like EFT. CCP should have developed them and didn't. As a result EVE is incomplete as a stand alone and requires outside apps to be played correctly.

-Windjammer

Valtis Thermalion
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:36:00 - [452]
 

Edited by: Valtis Thermalion on 15/06/2011 21:36:32
So, seeing how some third party forums like failheap challenge or kug.utsumen use ads in one form or another to support themselves, what are you going to do if or rather when they refuse to pay you $100 per year? By this licence agreement, they would require the commercial licence, but I'm not sure you could actually do anything about it if they refuse to pay. You could probably try to sue them, but a) I'm sure the forums would be protected by freedom of speech (corporations can't exactly demand people to pay them if they discuss about their products) and b) even if you could successfully sue them, enjoy the ****storm when the news spread about this big corporation suing fan sites over $100 dollars. This would make the rules fairly unenforceable.

Aidia Nestor
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:37:00 - [453]
 

Edited by: Aidia Nestor on 15/06/2011 21:38:16
Originally by: Alpheias
CCP, don't bite the hand that feeds you. You need us more than we need you.


+1

Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:40:00 - [454]
 

My suggestion would be to drop this project and spend the time and resources you were going to use for it, on inventing time travel back to a time before this was announced.But that's just me.Laughing

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:40:00 - [455]
 

The most amazing thing about this is that it will get them what, maybe a grand or two a year? Is it worth making your game substantially worse (because without 3rd party ap support, this game is much worse) for that little? It's mind blowing.

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:40:00 - [456]
 

CCP should have a hard look at the people who handle PR and the flow of information. When large numbers of completely untrained individuals recognize you're doing it wrong, it's time to get new employees.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:41:00 - [457]
 

Originally by: Valtis Thermalion
enjoy the ****storm when the news spread about this big corporation suing fan sites over $100 dollars. This would make the rules fairly unenforceable.


Lucasarts are widely despised and loathed for doing exactly this.

By the way CCP, What SOE did to SWG: that's an example to be learned from not an example to be emulated.

PewvPew
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:42:00 - [458]
 

Uhhhh... How about "No".

No, I will not be paying CCP to provide development services.
No, I will not be paying to add value to their product by creating meta-service functionality.
No, I will not charge the users of my software real money to re-coup the costs CCP is imposing.

Most of the valuable Eve 3-rd party software is being developed & maintained for free.
Charging these developers real money for this "privilege" is a quite simply a non-starter, and you should have known that already.

What problem exactly are you trying to solve here?!! Are there too many developers providing services/functionality CCP will not or cannot provide themselves?
I am at a loss for what is driving this policy suggestion.

If there is a valid reason/problem you are trying to solve... and this attack on your development community is the *only* avenue you can use to solve it...
I would suggest that you only seek to re-coup fees in ISK currency (1m ISK for a commercial license) This fee would/could then be passed through to the end user by each developer.

Honestly, any more intrusion by CCP into the services offered by the development community turns into more of a land grab.
and if you go there you might as well be offering a reach around... and i better get a kiss first.

On a personal note, your BD guys are F*#@*tards... they should have anticipated this reaction.


Grillmeister Grim
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:43:00 - [459]
 

Is there a new management or why all the sh!t recently?

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:44:00 - [460]
 

Originally by: Valtis Thermalion
Edited by: Valtis Thermalion on 15/06/2011 21:36:32
So, seeing how some third party forums like failheap challenge or kug.utsumen use ads in one form or another to support themselves, what are you going to do if or rather when they refuse to pay you $100 per year? By this licence agreement, they would require the commercial licence, but I'm not sure you could actually do anything about it if they refuse to pay. You could probably try to sue them, but a) I'm sure the forums would be protected by freedom of speech (corporations can't exactly demand people to pay them if they discuss about their products) and b) even if you could successfully sue them, enjoy the ****storm when the news spread about this big corporation suing fan sites over $100 dollars. This would make the rules fairly unenforceable.


CCP can contact the host or service provider threatening legal action if they don't shut those sites down. CCP has legal claims to their IP and infringement means they can in most situations get companies to 'play ball' and shut down people when they make the threat. Some won't bend over but given enough threats, contact from a lawyer and finally a legal case being filed even more will comply.

As far as bad press goes I'm sure they'd cling to the notion of protecting their IP and people were abusing their IP. They'd say they offered a reasonable system to allow fan sites to operate but 'so and so' wouldn't comply and refused to comply with their requests.




Alexi Blue
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:45:00 - [461]
 

Edited by: Alexi Blue on 15/06/2011 21:48:41
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
CCP should have a hard look at the people who handle PR and the flow of information. When large numbers of completely untrained individuals recognize you're doing it wrong, it's time to get new employees.


Well Hilmar thinks you are all a bunch of whiners so ...


LOL @ CCP

LOL @ CCP Fanboys

LeviUK
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:45:00 - [462]
 

$99 for what?

But you know, since your legal docs arnt even spell checked and have self voiding clauses - I'll give you a hint, no charge!

I'm not gonna be paying you anything, your icons and thumbnails are covered by fair use. Your logo and name arnt worth anything anyway, so I wont be using that while you drag your names through the mud.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:48:00 - [463]
 

Actually, I think I get what's going on.

No one there actually plays EVE. Or at least the business team and management. So they don't know that the game is basically not playable without these 3rd party aps. To us players, these aps are what make the game functional. But to the management and business team, they're useless leeches.

Tommy Lee Jones
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:48:00 - [464]
 

I understand the goal as very reasonable. Allow developers to have the chance to make some decent money selling nifty eve apps utilising the eve service outside of donations ala app markets if those devs wanted to.

The consumers of the apps are angry because this might lead to them paying for something which is currently free if the developer chose to start charging for their app or that the developers might be forced to pay for licensing changing the current modus operandi of app development community.

It seems like if it is true that devs were excited at the possibility of professionally working on apps and charging for them, the provision should be put in place for that whilst not changing how free apps are operated. I have no problem with devs wanting to charge for their apps since it is up to the consumer if they pay for it and at that point, the ccp license should be charged.

In short, I believe you sent a very specific message to a very wide audience (99.99% are app consumers who currently enjoy a free buffet). They feel threatened by the premise of paying for things which are currently free either by developers wanting a slice of cake for their efforts or being forced to charge in order to meet licence costs. Obviously the latter is nasty but the former is fine since that is the right of the developer under such a system.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:50:00 - [465]
 

Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 16/06/2011 14:40:53
Content deleted due to http://tinyurl.com/closingforum

Edisonn Trent
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:51:00 - [466]
 

In before CCP offers EULA-legal bots for 99$ a year.

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:51:00 - [467]
 

Edited by: Smoking Blunts on 15/06/2011 21:51:25
i seam to remember a time when ccp were cool and acted like they gave a dam about this game and its customers.

today i got reminded that now days they are just milking the old cash cow before it dies

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:52:00 - [468]
 

This is probably a subtle push to get rid of the current 3rd party apps since CCP earns nothing from them.

1) Release API and let people code for you

2) After several open source projects are well established and widely used, start charging not only for API, but for any service and lay down incredibly restrictive rules and charges.

3) Wait for popular 3rd parties to drop development due to the ridiculous cost/effort you forced on them.

4) Take the open source, modify it a little, and then license it.

5) Charge for use, with no competition but a massive dependance.

6) proffittttttt

7) kill your game

Nooto
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:54:00 - [469]
 

Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Edited by: Smoking Blunts on 15/06/2011 21:51:25
i seam to remember a time when ccp were cool and acted like they gave a dam about this game and its customers.

today i got reminded that now days they are just milking the old cash cow before it dies


+1

so true

Aidia Nestor
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:55:00 - [470]
 

I love creating webapps
I love that ingame browser is based on chromium

.. but to pay $99/year for income that might or might not happen? No thanks. That would be a really good reason to do more interesting stuff than EVE.

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:56:00 - [471]
 

Edited by: flakeys on 15/06/2011 21:58:52


Sup with all the reall cash threads last days CCP?

Someone threw some DUST in your eyes wich showed a good cashcow?

You've abandoned the feel you had for the community and the game in the last years and especially as of the last months , don't act surprised when the community will give the same treatment because to be fair at thi point you deserve it.



Josef Huffenpuff
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:56:00 - [472]
 

Sorry CCP - this is B***sh*t

US$99 is FAR FAR FAR too much.

I've written two significantly large web apps that use the API. They weren't written for money but I gratefully accept donations from anyone who uses them. So far I've made about 1 Bill from them. Yeah, thats peanuts.

Frankly US$99 for 1 Bill means you can stick future development where the sun doesn't shine. There's no way I will pay anything like that much.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:58:00 - [473]
 

Can I have also some of the stuff you folks are smoking?

Must be really good sh't.


Chasing away your most loyal and valuable resources. That is just so ******ed that it is funny again, lol.


You don't lose a single penny if some folks are earning a few bucks with some EVE-Apps. Instead you get extra free advertisement.

FREE LICENSE FOR EVERYONE!

Assimil8r
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:58:00 - [474]
 

Edited by: Assimil8r on 15/06/2011 22:03:23
So it sounds like EVEMon, EFT etc. will continue to have free access to the API because they're free tools. Great.

But if the sites that host these apps use adverts to cover their hosting costs, they suddenly have to pay the $99 fee? Or if I donate ISK - even 1 ISK cent - to one of the EVEMon devs as thanks, that dev suddenly has to pay 99 bucks?

What's wrong with declaring "if you sell an application or service that makes use of the EVE API for real money, you need to pay CCP X% of your profits"? That way, free tools stay free, 3rd-party devs keep developing, and the only people who have to cough up are those who actually profit from killboards or the like... which is no-one. Hence I fail to see any merit AT ALL in the idea of charging to use the API.

If the intention is to stop RMT, then you should've stated that as the first point in your blog post, and then you should have used the post to discuss how a $99 fee is going to combat RMT.

And no dev is going to start charging real money for his/her app because (a) 99% of 3rd-party apps for EVE contain functionality that really should be baked into the client, (b) no-one is going to pay for that functionality because they're used to getting it for free, (c) if an app is monetized, someeone else will just make a free app to replace it.

No-one wins here CCP, especially not you. Dump this pathetic idea like roasted dog ****.

Also, get it out of your heads that EVE players are going to subsidise DUST and the related PS3 licensing fees - because we ain't. DUST is your problem, not ours, if you need funding for it, I suggest you look elsewhere.

YourFault
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:59:00 - [475]
 

hey Zymurgist can i have the phone number of your pusher ? good stuff out there LaughingLaughing

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:00:00 - [476]
 

Edited by: Soden Rah on 15/06/2011 22:15:28
Will you please....


for the love of whatever gods you sacrifice too...




Post some dev blogs and answers to questions for the patch coming out in 5 days.

Instead of posting more stuff for people to get worked up about that's coming out some time After the patch happening in 5 days...

How is it that this thread gets monitored and has the devblog updated to reflect feedback... while the countless threads on Incarna...
which have I mentioned is coming out in 5 days.... get nothing .....

Please focus on one thing at a time....
Focus on the patch you are about to release...
And Answer our damn questions... PLEASE....



Incarna is one of the most... Longest anticipated features, to come to eve... You are treating it like some censured love child you want to get out of the way without anyone noticing...

Stop posting Pie eyed, idiotic ideas about the different ways you can screw us out of our money, until after you have sorted out what you are about to inject into TQ.

I am sorry, but much as I generally admire your work, Incarna is catastrophically badly designed, and your communication on the subject has been abysmal.

We desperately need that to change, and you have very little time left in which to do it.




EDIT: Also your dev blog need to be MUCH longer and MUCH more detailed and MUCH clearer.

If you want people to understand that things are work in progress and that their are a number of options on the table (plus the option for options you haven't thought off yet) you have to SAY so.

Saying, this isn't set in stone we want your feedback, shouldn't have to be an afterthought.

Also in cases like this some examples we can relate to would be a real help. For example, what would be the options for eve-mon or EFT?
what kind of licence do they need, what would they need to do to apply?
What benefit is in it for them to have this licence?

If you write a blog that is that vague people will naturally assume the worst.


Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:01:00 - [477]
 

Originally by: Jaddar
Edited by: Jaddar on 15/06/2011 21:28:51
First of all, you all seem to have missed the part in which they ask for constructive criticism.


You are completely missing the point. What is the point in "constructively criticizing" an idea that should not exist in the first place?

You don't "constructively criticize" the the dog Shiite on your shoe, you cuss at it, scraape(seriously, sc**** is filtered?) it off and beat the dog that left its shiite on your lawn.

Zachstar
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:05:00 - [478]
 

CCP you have your response. Please now say that the plan is cancelled and that you will let the community form a better plan for allowing commercial development of EVE related applications.

Edisonn Trent
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:08:00 - [479]
 

Originally by: Zachstar
CCP you have your response. Please now say that the plan is cancelled and that you will let the community form a better plan for allowing commercial development of EVE related applications.


Yeah, that's gonna happen Laughing

Judy BigShot
Big Shot - For the Bounty Hunters
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:09:00 - [480]
 

Edited by: Judy BigShot on 15/06/2011 22:12:10
Sorry for trolling.
But I got a very good idea for your "Biz Dev":
Just extend the downtime each day from 30 minutes to 23 hours.
-> A lot less bug reports, petitions and so on!
-> Servers could go offline for 22 hours a day -> less energy -> Green IT!!!
If this idea brought me a job in that team, just pm me!

(edit: rethought the idea...)



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