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CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:17:00 - [1]
 

CCP Atlas has some great news for 3rd party developers in his latest dev blog. Read all about the new business license and monetizing 3rd party apps here.

Read German translation

Read Russian translation

Addendum from CCP Guard: Don't miss CCP Zulu's update in this post

Shania L'monde
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:26:00 - [2]
 

Quote:
Will corporation and alliance websites require a commercial license?

No, private websites do not need a license. However, if you have an external facing part of the website that uses the EVE IP you will require a non-commercial or a commercial license, depending on your use.


External facing as in not behind a password? I.e. the front page of virtually every corp website that exists?

If your website is restricted to private corp use by a password, there is still the public facing part (where you enter your password), can that now no longer mention EvE without a non-commercial license?

Shania.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:27:00 - [3]
 

Will the non-commercial license be compatible with known OSI licenses, like GPL for instance?

Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:29:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Peter Powers on 15/06/2011 16:51:55
Quote:
Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?

Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.

seriously? thats bull****. it will kill alot of the current sites doing that, like lotteries, poker, hosting, etc.

i mean its all fair and good for people who take realmoney, but for services provided for isk? thats just stupid.

Edit:

Honestly im totally down with people paying if they make RL money from it, thats IMHO just fair,
but requiring people to pay real money for a service that they get a hand full of isk out?

over the years i've spend a considerable amount of my free time developing stuff all arround eve, be it libaries like EAAL or Pheal, or be it tools like ECOTRA (northern-crusade/deblob), and a hand full of others. All of those tools are improving and extending the EVE Experience for alot of users, and all i've been asking for ever was 'if you like it, donate me a few isk', over the years thats a total of maybe 1.5bn isk - not much eh?

if i had spend the same amount of time playing eve rather than coding, i would have made much more, but i like doing this.
However, i am not going to pay for it.

Adding that clause to your devblog, even thinking about it that way is a slap in the face of people like me.

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:33:00 - [5]
 

A few questions about the fee:

1) Why is it an annual fee? A one time fee seems a lot fairer, since CCP doesn't have annual costs associated with verifying my identity.
2) The annual fee might be troublesome for apps that are "abandoned" by their developers. If a dev stops paying the fee, will CCP sue to take down the application?
3) If someone sells an app, lets say a killboard, is the buyer of the app allowed to take donations, or would they require a separate developer license?
4) Will the API now require developer licenses to be passed in as arguments? Will there be limits on API use per application?

Overall, I still appreciate CCP allowing this sort of stuff to happen. EVE without EVEMon or EFT would be a much poorer game.

Mal Plox
Gallente
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:35:00 - [6]
 


Capsuleer, please come back!

Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:36:00 - [7]
 

And how, exactly, is this "great news" for 3rd party devs? All it's going to do is force them to cough up even more money to CCP for something that, realistically, they don't NEED to pay for to begin with since they are currently free. This means that programs like EveMON, EveHQ, EveTycoon, etc will now be forced to charge its user base a monthly fee if they wish to use the program since the costs will trickle down to the end users of the programs themselves.

Bad CCP, with this and now MT that you swore you would never do, when did you become so money-hungry that you feel the need to nickel-and-dime your customers? Did some other company/investors buy you out or something? Because I cannot really explain what would have happened internally that would cause you to come to this point.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:39:00 - [8]
 

LOL!

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:43:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: adriaans on 15/06/2011 16:45:10
Originally by: Peter Powers
Quote:
Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?

Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.

seriously? thats bull****. it will kill alot of the current sites doing that, like lotteries, poker, hosting, etc.

i mean its all fair and good for people who take realmoney, but for services provided for isk? thats just stupid.


This.


Don't like it at all.


Wait... So any vid makers that accept isk donations now have to buy a bloody license? Not to mention every other activity that involves isk...


Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:43:00 - [10]
 

Sorry but why is CCP trying to milk sites about EVE for money?... sites that advertise and already bring users in to EVE?

This is a bad move on CCPs part.


Got an alliance site with killboard and they support it by donations to break even? Then yes, you'll have to pay for commercial license.

Mike deVoid
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:51:00 - [11]
 

I have a PI spreadsheet I have made available publicly. It's free to use, but my char name is attached to the document. If I receive a friendly in-game donation, do I require a $99 license?

Sarina Rhoda
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:51:00 - [12]
 

My understanding might be completely wrong but from what im reading you only need the license and only have to pay ccp if you plan on charging people for the 3rd party service.

Ie sites that run on donations or offer their services for free do not need a license and do not have to pay the $99 fee...

At least i think this is what all this means :S (please please please correct me if i am wrong)

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:51:00 - [13]
 

Glad to finally see this getting more formal attention. I heard about it watching the FanFest feed and thought it was a great idea. Still do.

Samuel Reaper
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:51:00 - [14]
 

Quote:
Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?

Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.

How can a commercial license be required for people who are trading something that explicitly has no commercial value? Or is this an admission that isk does have real world value? Twisted Evil

Imuran
Zentor Industries
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:51:00 - [15]
 

So basically all kill boards are going to require a miniumum of a non commercial licence, all supported by donnations/advertising are going to require a commercial licence as basically they all access the API

Chribbas Eve-board access the API and accepts donations - so thats commercial let alone apps that accept donations

Not good

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:53:00 - [16]
 

Quote:
Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?

Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.


I have to agree that this rule seems a bit onerous and should be reconsidered. Only those charging RL money should be charged RL money.

Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:53:00 - [17]
 

Some good stuff, some bad stuff. But mostly, too little too late. Most third party developers have left already or stopped working on their tools long ago.

Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:54:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: CCP
Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?

Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.


late April Fools?

Even for sites accepting real cash donations, they rarely break even with running costs.
Do you even realise how much running something like EVE-Files costs? And now you want to milk these people that provide game-enriching services out of their own pocket for more cash? Poor show, CCP. Poor show.

Hexxx
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:58:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Tobin Shalim
And how, exactly, is this "great news" for 3rd party devs? All it's going to do is force them to cough up even more money to CCP for something that, realistically, they don't NEED to pay for to begin with since they are currently free. This means that programs like EveMON, EveHQ, EveTycoon, etc will now be forced to charge its user base a monthly fee if they wish to use the program since the costs will trickle down to the end users of the programs themselves.

Bad CCP, with this and now MT that you swore you would never do, when did you become so money-hungry that you feel the need to nickel-and-dime your customers? Did some other company/investors buy you out or something? Because I cannot really explain what would have happened internally that would cause you to come to this point.



That's nice, but I want this badly. I spend a lot of money developing web based services and being able to subsidize those costs through micro-subscriptions would seriously ease my (wallet) pain.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:00:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 15/06/2011 17:07:44
Originally by: FROM THE BLOG TEXT
An example of unacceptable monetization would be accepting Google AdWords from sites violating our EULA and ToS. (this is essentially similar to our terms for fansites)

If you are to believe people that do use Google ads, it's not like you really get a choice to allow such sites in, but more like actively prune all of those that are not suitable...
What exactly is your position on that, what is the mandatory "response time" for a person to deny a particular ad from being shown ?
If you have a zero-tolerance policy you might just as well say "you can't use any adds" because that's essentially what it would eventually come down to.

Originally by: FROM THE BLOG TEXT
Q: Why charge for the license at all?
A: The licensing fee is there to partially cover expenses from this initiative and more importantly, we need to charge a fee so that we get proper non-spoofable information about the applicant. We have kept the fee as low as possible and hope that the $99 fee is low enough to not dissuade serious developers from participating in the program.

Right... do you actually EXPECT to receive any significant amount of RL money from this ?
Also, what's there to stop people from just, you know, IGNORING YOU and just go ahead without paying the license at all as long as they only accept RL currencies ? Since you only ask for 99$/year, even if you would sue them, at most you'd get a similar amount of money off of them, after some rather protracted litigation, IF you can even manage to win it.

Also, why not set the fee to something like 1 USD + x PLEX instead?


Since, you know, you're "mostly doing it for identification purposes".

Mike deVoid
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:00:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?

Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.


If payment is OPTIONAL for the service, is a $99 license still required?

Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:00:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Hexxx
That's nice, but I want this badly. I spend a lot of money developing web based services and being able to subsidize those costs through micro-subscriptions would seriously ease my (wallet) pain.


A while ago I'd have agreed with you. But EVE players are perhaps one of the toughest markets to monetize. See: MT. Trying to monetize EVE 3rd party apps is going to be very hard work and with $99/year fees to CCP, I very much doubt any but the largest sites will even break even. EVE Metrics almost certainly would not have.

ALLHAILCHODA
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:02:00 - [23]
 

So your going to charge people money who have made your game a better experience for everyone? Tell your CFO to remove head from ass.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:03:00 - [24]
 

So sites like Battleclinic or Eve-Files are going to have to cough up $99/year, over and above their actual operating costs, for no apparent reason? I mean, I could understand a real-money charge if they were allowed to collect fees/donations in real money. But expecting them to pay dollars for the right to get isk is utter bull****.

Hexxx
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:03:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Hexxx
That's nice, but I want this badly. I spend a lot of money developing web based services and being able to subsidize those costs through micro-subscriptions would seriously ease my (wallet) pain.


A while ago I'd have agreed with you. But EVE players are perhaps one of the toughest markets to monetize. See: MT. Trying to monetize EVE 3rd party apps is going to be very hard work and with $99/year fees to CCP, I very much doubt any but the largest sites will even break even. EVE Metrics almost certainly would not have.


Using PayPal subscriptions and tiered premium access could have gone a long way towards paying for EVE Metrics. I don't think you realize how much people valued EVE Metrics.

Basic access and reports are free, more detailed analysis and trending is paid. $1 a month is not that much to ask for.

NoobPwn
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:03:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: NoobPwn on 15/06/2011 17:03:43
Quote:


Will I be able to charge real life currency for in game services?

No, the commercial license does not allow you to charge real life money for any in-game services.


So are you asking the 3rd-party service providers to pay $99 in order to earn some ISK?

Troll.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:07:00 - [27]
 

The cash grabbing gets even more desperate

**** everything about this

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:08:00 - [28]
 

I wouldn't exactly say that $99 dollar a year is inexpensive for a lot of services that are in essence non-commercial but try to reduce running costs by having adds or donations. If fans are forced to make a business out of it some may decide its not worth the bother.

A lot of the excellent services we have seen throughout the lifetime of Eve probably wouldn't have happened with terms like these.


Services that charge in-game ISK is an important meta-game aspect, expecting all of those to turn commercial also seems unfair. They would have to charge RL money to cover the CCP tax.

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:11:00 - [29]
 

I like this, and I think it's about time. My only problem is the current API is very limited still. Will it be getting advancements so we can make our apps worth purchasing?

For instance - there are hundreds of skill trackers already for free, why would someone make a new one and charge for it? If there were new additions to the API (I have lots of ideas of what I'd want) then people will be more likely to pay money for the new development.

AtheistOfFail
AoF Lottery Services
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:11:00 - [30]
 

What's up CCP? Dust514 not going well.
This is going to turn into the time you tried to charge for EvE Voice.
Recommend community to disable all 3rd Party sites for 24 hours in protest to these unwarranted changes.


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