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ucntkilme
Amarr
No Bullshit
Jokers Wild.
Posted - 2011.06.24 06:30:00 - [151]
 

Ya know, i've read through all these posts here as I myself run more than 1 client and often times more than 2 clients as well.

I definately agree with making incarna optional, I got onto eve in 2007 to fly around null-sec or other space blowing the **** out of people. I've done this well over the years, had some epic failures too. But now with this incarna ****, and yes that is what it is - complete ****ing garbage, I'll be forced to use a feature I have no interest in, no want, no need to take part of. CVA Might like this internet dress-up game you're changing EvE into, but thats because like the ****ing children CCP is going to attract to the game, CVA is full of idiots.

So making the 'Incarna' crap features optional to load PERMANENTLY would vastly decrease the ammount of flame CCP would get on these forums if only they'd come out and say 'yes it will be permanent to turn CQ and the rest of the worthless world of incarna off' which would make those of us who matter (like Jokers Wild, -A- & Friends and To a lesser degree the entire NC) a little more suceptible to perhaps 'try it out' once its 100% complete since we'll be able to turn it off.

But the one thing that baffles me really, isnt even about CCP its about the players. Why after all these years are we still posting on the forums that the DEV's dont read, dont give a **** about and certainly wont respond to. Haven't we learned yet that CCP has been abusing its customer base since its inception? Wake up customers, CCP isnt going to do a ****ing thing anytime soon and that includes reading all the posts we have.

Sure no one likes incarna - Sure everyone hates CCP for turning our favorite game into a get online and 'e-date' some 'avatar' whilst having a conversation with another 'avatar' that you just happen to be 'e-dating' as well.

Lets get back to the basics, petition CCP for scrapping Incarna options all together - stopping with this ****ed up idea of Dust514 or whatever other pathetic ideas they're coming up with these days. It's not going to do any good, we could all storm into the CCP HQ and have a sit-in and what will happen? Not a ****ing thing, other than occasionally getting kicked by a guy who would rather you go buy a plex to convert to AURUM so he can pad his wallet and buy yet another un-needed beer or hypodermic needle for his ******e addiction.

I guess what I'm saying is while I hate Incarna and CCP for even thinking this type of **** would be okay, why ***** about it when they don't ****ing care, listen, respond, or even read what we are saying?

Vol Arm'OOO
Posted - 2011.06.24 13:14:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
Quote:

<snip>

We are talking about a single room at the moment in a static environment.



this^^
CQ has no content. All you can do is walk from your ship to a bench and sit down. There is nothing else to do and no one else to interact with. And, yet, it gums up the works of your computer. There are plenty of games such as wow and eq2 where folk walk around and interact with other folk and do this and that all while 2 boxing without serious performance problems. I simply dont understand why given the limited functionality of cq it messes with the performance of the game as a whole. I kinda like the whole walking in station thing, yet I turned it off because it was simply pointless as it does nothing from a game perspective and at the same time messes with the quality of my game experience.

DoPlanet
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:00:00 - [153]
 

Edited by: DoPlanet on 24/06/2011 16:01:00
Originally by: Samuel Wess
When 'disable station environment' will be removed so will be my accounts.

+4

Aessaya
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:57:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: DoPlanet
Edited by: DoPlanet on 24/06/2011 16:01:00
Originally by: Samuel Wess
When 'disable station environment' will be removed so will be my accounts.

+4

+3 here

Leocadminone
Posted - 2011.06.24 18:27:00 - [155]
 

YOu need to define "DSL connection" and "ADSL connection" in your "requirements" - and to be picky, pretty much ALL "DSL" is "ADSL" in todays market.

ADSL IME can go as low as a 128k/256k assymetrical connect, and as high as 10ish MB down/1M up - that's one HECK of a wide range to talk about using ONE "term" to describe it - and the high end is just going to get higher over time.



Leocadminone
Posted - 2011.06.24 18:33:00 - [156]
 

If the current horribly LAGGY SLOW performance of your CQ crap on my MIDRANGE machine "met your targets", I'd hate to imagine how slow you consider acceptable.

LEAVE THE BLOODY NO INCARNA OPTION IN THE GAME.

Note that some of us have NEVER had any interest in your "sims in space" BS and dont' have any interest in putting up with the MAJOR performance penalties involved - the current lag levels even with that junk turned OFF are unacceptable.

No, I don't run 6xxx or 7xxx Nvidea level machines for most of my Eve accounts. the lowest end machines I run currently are 3xxx ATI equipment with 256 or 512 megs RAM on the video - and I STILL can't multibox worth CRAP due to the massive overhead Incarna has added even with that CQ junk TURNED OFF.

I used to be able to 4box on my main machine fine - now it's bloody slow and laggy with *2* clients, when it's not crashing repeatedly.


THE OPTION TO NOT BE FORCED INTO INCARNA WAS PROMISED TO US YEARS AGO. DO NOT REMOVE THE OPTION.



Leocadminone
Posted - 2011.06.24 18:43:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Zarathustra Ahuramazda
I agree with the temp part of it being left out. The people who don't want to mess with Incarna should be allowed to opt out of it till they warm up to it at least.

-Z


Probability ZERO I will ever "warm up to it".
If I wanted to play "sims in space" i'd play bloody SIMS, not Eve.

I never liked the basic concept of "walking in stations" from the first day I heard of it, and now that it's been crammed down our throat in a very NONTESTED sort of way with more bugs than I can shake a bugtracker at, I'm even LESS impressed with the concept.

Oxigun
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:58:00 - [158]
 

I like to have multiple clients open for tasks that require boosts, scouts, market data etc. I DO NOT want to have to run these clients in low graphics mode so I can accommodate a useless CQ interface that has absolutely no value to me for the toons that are in station. I just want to turn the damn thing off. I couldn't care less if my pilot scratches his nose or bobs his head. I simply don't care.

I fail to see why you are forcing users to use the CQ interface, unless of course you are driving everyone toward micro transactions, in which case, fly safe, me and my accounts will go elsewhere...

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.06.25 10:51:00 - [159]
 

I just realized today, I cant dualbox two accounts docked at same time, my pc completely freezes. Im running Nvidia 9800 series GT card, which I believe was not mentioned as 'low-end'. The memory requirements in your "minimum" reqs are also very much inadequate.

I like the concept of incarna very much, but as it is, it is too much of a resourcehog. I plead you that you would keep the "dont load station enviroment" option in the game for my mental wellbeing. Do not remove it.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:08:00 - [160]
 


I fixed my graphics thrashing issue by changing the "present interval" from default to one.

Dr Screamm
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:09:00 - [161]
 

I ll be brief as on cell reading all that is goin on far from home. I have SEVEN FULL ACCOUNTS and believe me CCP if you don t bring the dream back the dream that EVE has been until now, you will loose me AND my SEVEN FULL ACCOUNTS, by d way I have a super gaming computer 8gig memory super graphic card and I cannot login all my toons and play and mine and give support with my fleet any longer since incarna, what d hell have u done!

Stormchyld
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.26 08:36:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Aessaya
Originally by: DoPlanet
Edited by: DoPlanet on 24/06/2011 16:01:00
Originally by: Samuel Wess
When 'disable station environment' will be removed so will be my accounts.

+4

+3 here


... add 3 more

MezriDax
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:53:00 - [163]
 

I do not in anyway have an "old system" but running more than one account that loads the captain quarters screws up my screen. What you've recommended is a joke compared to the capabilities of my system but even I am having problems. Add to this that I run four accounts at the same time and I can only conclude that I will not be able to run Eve and play anymore once you've shut off the ability to turn off captain's quarters.

Quite simply, if I can't run the accounts I need to play due to your insistence on making me load something I never wanted to begin with, you've just lost four more paying accounts. Loose enough of them and your arrogant attitude about pushing something we don't want upon the players who pay your salary will put many of you out of a job. No more mister nice guy for me, CCP is not delivering the platform that we pay to play. Go ahead and ban my account if you wish but you're hurting yourself in the end.

BTW, banning accounts for people speaking out about how you're screwing up the game we pay you to run is seriously childish.

5cott
Posted - 2011.06.27 04:13:00 - [164]
 

A door?

I disable CQ to play eve as I have been for years(with multiple clients) and I get shown a door?

So let me get this straight: Anyone who disables your fancy space barbie sim gets shown the door?

You realise how much of a FU*K YOU! this is to us right?

It says that you want anyone who does not want to use CQ to leave. Looks like they are doing just that.

Not to mention all the ppl with ATI cards who are effectively forced to disable it to save their card from melting when running ONLY 1 instance of EVE!

Ambrani
Posted - 2011.06.27 04:36:00 - [165]
 

Edited by: Ambrani on 27/06/2011 04:38:24
I think I´ve found a small hotfix, if you want to be able reduce the CQ load on your machine quickly without having to uncheck "Load Station Environment" and redock:
  • Simply open up the Map (F10 by default)
On my machine doing this dropped the CPU load from ~65% to ~20%, and the FPS (CTRL+F) went from ~20 to ~60

If you choose to unload the CQ aswell as open the Map, you will still see a reduction in CPU usage, atleast for me it dropped from ~17% to ~11%

On a side note, in space opening the Map lowers for me the CPU load from ~20% to ~10%

The perfomance gains can be attributed to not actually seeing the interior or space Laughing but if you do tasks like updating market orders this can save valuable resources on your machine when using multiple clients

So I say to those who wish to lower the strain on their machines/clients:
"When in doubt, open map!"


I did a very short test and the GPU temp dropped by a few degress aswell in both cases, with the temp being lower when you haven't loaded the interior of course

Bear in mind that this test was conducted on a single client!
Edit: Typo


iooo1971a
Amarr
Siberian Khatru.
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:34:00 - [166]
 

I have 2 account and the only solution to be able to play is to disable CQ.

I don't want:
1. to buy new hardware to be able to dock
2. to see static doors - it's stupid, i can't see my active ship, can't open cargo etc.

Why we HAVE TO leave our ships when we dock?

This patch is the worst ever released (except agent finder). It drasticaly reduces playability of the game.

I'm balancing on the edge of canceling my accounts.

Taoi Khan
Empire of Collateral Damage
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:33:00 - [167]
 

What system specs would you suggest for running 4 accounts?

Thank you,

Current system

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775
ASUS P5Q LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
4 GB DDR2 Ram
SAPPHIRE 100247L Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16
Antec TPQ-850 850W Continuous Power Supply ATX12V
2 Dell 24 inch monitors.


Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.06.29 14:24:00 - [168]
 

Just want to point out that those of us running multiple accounts ... past a certain point ... have to use multiple computers to do it.

Yes - I have a relatively new system and can run 3 or 4 copies of EVE on that system - depending on what I'm doing.

But - to fully run all my accounts, especially if I'm participating in combat - I need the help of other systems.

Those other systems are older machines.

It is not finnancially practical for me to go out and buy a whole new set of systems - just so I can play multiple accounts of EVE. It has been EVE's tolerance of older systems that has let me set myself up the way I have.

Each time we have an update that knocks off one of my older systems - I become less able to play the game the way I've set myself up to play it. I bought those other accounts - under the assumption that I would be able to use them - and - when I bought them - I could.

Six months ago - I had four systems that could play the game.

Because of changes in EVE and part failures I now have one.

Having computers fail on you is a normal part of ownnig one and reparing the system something that is managable. But - when normal system failures are combined with the game obsoleting systems - running multiple accounts, past a certain point - becomes untenable.

Let me make this perfectly clear.

Having to load the Incarna software every time I enter a station to drop off a load of ore from my hauler - and having that Incarna Load cause problems for the other ships I am running on that system - is unsatisfactory. It prevents me from playing the game the way I am set up to play it.

Even with only a single account - the delay, simply so that I can look at my avatars back side while I dump ore into my hangar - is unsatisfactory.

I hope to be able to bring some of my troubled systems back on line and once more use them to play this game - if I am prvented from doing that in a useful way because of the resource hog Incarna is - I will have no choice but to begin eliminating accounts. Even if I don't quit the game entirely - there will simply be no point in my maintaining the number of accounts I have if I simply can't use them.

CCP has designed and marketed this game as one that can be played with multiple accounts. I have those accounts because of that design and marketing. It is incumbent upon CCP to maintain a viable, multiple account environment to support the marketing they have done. You - CCP - have a responsibility to me to maintain this game so that it operates in the manner it was marketed as operating. If you fail to live up to that responsibility - then I will simply have to go elsewhere.

Yes - there is bound to be some gradual fall off in the viability of older machines - but the wholesale loss of many systems which up until recently had been able to play the game - especially after those systems are upgraded to the standards you specified - and indicated that these would be viable standards for some time - is unacceptable.

Thus, You - CCP - have a responsibility to me and the other players - to not destroy our play styles through the sudden inclusion of material that makes them invalid.

If you do not maintain this game in a form where it is viable for me to run multiple accounts on machines that are listed in your specifications as being supported - then I will have no choice but to begin eliminating accounts.

And - if you **** me off - I'll quit entirely and go find something else to play - canceling all my accounts.

Now - I'm sure that you don't really give a damn whether I keep playing ... but I'm not the only person with multiple accounts. There are a lot of us and if we can't use them - we've got no reason to pay for them.


The very idea that we are having this conversation is absurd.

The solution is simple.

Don't force people to leave their ships on docking so that Incarna doesn't load.

Don't create a problem where there shouldn't be one.

.

Insidious
0utbreak
Posted - 2011.06.29 15:51:00 - [169]
 

Edited by: Insidious on 29/06/2011 15:54:30



CCP Zulu why the devil did you have to say 'temporarily add the option to not load the Incarna interiors'

my load station interior is turned off and I intend to never look at interiors since its not part of the game im willing to support

Tacyon
The Phayder Corporation
Posted - 2011.07.01 17:51:00 - [170]
 

I've looked over the "revised" system requirements and recommendations. And there are some "also to consider" things that people should realize. There are several types of memory and places where code wants to load. There is system memory (motherboard based). There is graphics memory (graphics card based) and virtual memory or hard disk drive [HDD] based. I'll talk about games since their primary over head is graphics compared to example: MS-Excel which would be primarily computational.

When Eve loads some amount of code gets loaded into the graphics memory and some amount gets loaded into main system memory. Not having enough graphics memory will result in the inability to have certain graphics eye candy enabled. (very basically speaking) When you don't have enough main or system memory, windows (assuming you're using it) will supplement it with virtual memory which is the swap file on your HDD. This HDD based virtual memory is much, much slower than real memory.

Now, there are basic limitations to Windows (any version) when it's the 32bit flavor. This is ~2 to 3gb of usable memory. I've observed that on my 2gb machine prior to Incarna expansion I had no trouble running two clients. That is to say both clients running were less than the 2gb of real memory I had installed. Now that Incarna has been “enforced” two clients is now utilizing 2.3gb or more. This extra ~>300mb of memory is being spooled to the fairly slow HDD swap file. And because of this you’ll notice a large performance hit. (fyi – I’m running SLI’d 8800GTX Ultras, so I doubt there is a bottle neck there) While I can, and have added more memory to my system I can never have 4gb or more unless I go to a 64bit OS. And that means Win7 64bit. 64bit limit is something on the order of 194gb for the upper tier OS’s which I'm hoping would be enough for Incarna.

So if you're using two clients, have an nVidia 560GT (example)graphic card but only a 32bit OS with ~2gb of memory, this might be the cause of poor performance with Incarna.

I love it when software publishers recommend 4gb of system memory as a requirement (in my business) but neglect to then also require a 64bit OS. One is not possible without the other.

loleX
Minmatar
The Tortured Souls
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.06 09:56:00 - [171]
 

This works a treat with lag, since the patch I can no longer run 1 account never mind the 4 I used to run.
I can now browse the internet while having 1 client running on my i3 machine.

CCP please look at this issue I can no longer run 2 or 3 clients at once without cpu load being crazy.....

I went as far as buying a new laptop and still the lag is horrendous unless I have the map open......


Originally by: Ambrani
Edited by: Ambrani on 27/06/2011 04:38:24
I think I´ve found a small hotfix, if you want to be able reduce the CQ load on your machine quickly without having to uncheck "Load Station Environment" and redock:
  • Simply open up the Map (F10 by default)
On my machine doing this dropped the CPU load from ~65% to ~20%, and the FPS (CTRL+F) went from ~20 to ~60

If you choose to unload the CQ aswell as open the Map, you will still see a reduction in CPU usage, atleast for me it dropped from ~17% to ~11%

On a side note, in space opening the Map lowers for me the CPU load from ~20% to ~10%

The perfomance gains can be attributed to not actually seeing the interior or space Laughing but if you do tasks like updating market orders this can save valuable resources on your machine when using multiple clients

So I say to those who wish to lower the strain on their machines/clients:
"When in doubt, open map!"


I did a very short test and the GPU temp dropped by a few degress aswell in both cases, with the temp being lower when you haven't loaded the interior of course

Bear in mind that this test was conducted on a single client!
Edit: Typo



loleX
Minmatar
The Tortured Souls
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.06 10:29:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
You know something is seriously wrong with your space game when sitting in a station is more computer-intensive than actually being in space and fighting.



Well Said

Wyndeigo
Posted - 2011.07.08 02:30:00 - [173]
 

Edited by: Wyndeigo on 08/07/2011 02:30:20
So, not being able to run more than one client satisfactorily at the same time, defeats the need for alts. Not able to use alts together with mains, No need for alts, no alts, no need for multiple accounts, no multiple accounts, well you see where i'm going with this?

Valarian Blacksun
Posted - 2011.07.09 22:02:00 - [174]
 

We are still determined to make Incarna a seamless part of the EVE experience so that one day there will be no Incarna, there will only be EVE.

HA!!!!!

There will always be eve and that "incarna thing" eve just got ****d with

Zilero
Posted - 2011.07.11 12:03:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Again, to be really clear; running a single client works fine on all hardware supported by us.


Not true. Apparently GFX programmers at CCP are not only incompetent, they are also liars.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:23:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: CCP
We are still determined to make Incarna a seamless part of the EVE experience so that one day there will be no Incarna, there will only be EVE.


/sigh...

WiS/Ambulation/Incarna by any other name is *not* Eve...ugh

Sherksilver
Posted - 2011.08.29 15:07:00 - [177]
 

Yeah, please - please leave the temp part of it out :)

Me - I am not too stressed performance wise (but I have a high end system) - what does stress me is the overall system power usage.

Having 4 characters running and docked drives my system power demands up to 950W, while I can run 6 un-docked without breaking 800...

Ouch Confused

Besides, as others have said - stations are kinda nice and all that - but, umm.... even when I am in one, I never walk around (to tedious on the controls) and plain just do not find it at all interesting (I play a space game to be in space, not to walk around a sci-fi station).


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