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blankseplocked [Proposal] Local Removed - Solutions to AFK cloaking provided.
 
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.06.12 20:55:00 - [1]
 

Local Alternative:

This is a very simple idea that I don't believe would require much work to implement and just adds functionality to an existing game mechanic while solving the "press nothing: receive bacon" status of local.

After local is removed; the directional scan should recieve two simple buffs in order to help people know whether there are people near/around them.

1) All active ships will show up as a blue/cyan font on directional scanner. Simply put; currently when you directional scan you get a bunch of ships on your list but thees no way to tell whether they are piloted or not. Well now the directional scanner will tell you.


2) Cloaked ships now show up on directional scanner.... but with a twist. If you directonal scan a cloaked ship it will show up as orange "????????". The new directional scanner will be able to tell you the current distance of a cloaked ship, but you will not be able to tell which DIRECTION the cloaked ship is coming from.

Basicly, a player should be able to set there scanner to any distance and the cloaked player will show up as "????????" but only when they are in range of the scan; also every scan (when it comes to cloaks) are treated as a 360 degree scan. Even if a pilot narrows his scan to 30 degrees and aims it at the completely wrong direction the cloaked player will show up on the scan list. This will prevent a pilot from ascertaining the true position of a cloaked ship; but still let you know he's there (if you scan).

One more thing: Gate cloaks should NOT show up on the scan list at all. This is to make sure that people who jump into systems maintain their same level of relative safety they have during the 30 second gate cloak.

And thats my idea.

Cross posted from FI, because no one reads FI anymore anyway.


Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.13 03:47:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Mars Theran on 13/06/2011 03:53:41
Not a bad idea, but I'd modify it a bit.

I'd allow the cloaked ship to show up in grey font, with it's type: Loki, Buzzard, Raven, etc..

The cloaked ship would show up directionally on any scan from 360 degrees to 60 degrees. <60 degree scans would not reveal it, and this could be explained by the cloaked vessel detecting the scanner and electronically acting to counter it directly.

I like the idea of Blue font for the Active ships, and I might even go so far as to allow Orange, and Red fonts for ships piloted by Outlaws, and ships Piloted by GCC's respectively. Technically they are flagged through the ships signature, so there is no reason for that not to be possible, except maybe in Nullsec. Take that or leave it as you wish, the rest is good.

edit: ..and yes, that means I have no objection to the removal of automatic updating of local in Nullsec, and perhaps even Lowsec. Highsec local should remain of course, and I can see other game changes making local visibility in Lowsec optional. Such as allowing Pirates to bribe system officials to remove local, shut down gate guns, and the like.

I want to see EVE become a more dynamic game. Despite my predeliction for being on the right side of the law, I see no reason why there shouldn't be options for those that aren't to make the game more interesting.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.13 16:20:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Local Alternative:

This is a very simple idea that I don't believe would require much work to implement and just adds functionality to an existing game mechanic while solving the "press nothing: receive bacon" status of local.

After local is removed; the directional scan should recieve two simple buffs in order to help people know whether there are people near/around them.

1) All active ships will show up as a blue/cyan font on directional scanner. Simply put; currently when you directional scan you get a bunch of ships on your list but thees no way to tell whether they are piloted or not. Well now the directional scanner will tell you.


2) Cloaked ships now show up on directional scanner.... but with a twist. If you directonal scan a cloaked ship it will show up as orange "????????". The new directional scanner will be able to tell you the current distance of a cloaked ship, but you will not be able to tell which DIRECTION the cloaked ship is coming from.

Basicly, a player should be able to set there scanner to any distance and the cloaked player will show up as "????????" but only when they are in range of the scan; also every scan (when it comes to cloaks) are treated as a 360 degree scan. Even if a pilot narrows his scan to 30 degrees and aims it at the completely wrong direction the cloaked player will show up on the scan list. This will prevent a pilot from ascertaining the true position of a cloaked ship; but still let you know he's there (if you scan).

One more thing: Gate cloaks should NOT show up on the scan list at all. This is to make sure that people who jump into systems maintain their same level of relative safety they have during the 30 second gate cloak.

And thats my idea.

Cross posted from FI, because no one reads FI anymore anyway.




The point of a cloaked ship is to not be seen. Having cloaked ship types show on the d-scan totally removes the fear of having a hostile in local. I for one do not want my target to know that I am in a Black Ops ready to drop a covert cyno. I also do not want my capital ship target to know that I have a cloaky dictor in system waiting to pounce when he makes a mistake. I also don't want my target/victim at the jump bridge to know that my Stealth Bomber is in system until I launch the bomb at the juicy hauler on the jump bridge. capital ship pilots also will not like the idea that d scan will let the targets know that there are 3 titans and 20 Moms cloaked and waiting to strike in system. The cloak adds a huge element of danger and that element of danger is what 0.0 is all about.

Totally in favor of removing local in 0.0 though! Only down side to it is that it would potentially create more scouting alts. Removing local would feed the kill machine which is fine by me and my pvp toon! If they do remove local the tears will be legendary!Twisted Evil


Kro0k
Gallente
EVE Evacuation
Posted - 2011.06.13 18:14:00 - [4]
 

Wouldnt be much of a cloak if they can see you on D-scan and have your distance now would it? What about wormholes?

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.13 23:09:00 - [5]
 

Even cloaking devices can have a signature of some sort. What they effectively do, is mask ship signatures, and displace the ships mass. With regards to light, presumeably they bend it, or use shield emitters to obscure the ship from sight in some fashion. If you actually looked out a window at one, you would see the light displacement against the backdrop of a planet or moon in all likelihood.

No reason to believe that it wouldn't be possible to at least partially detect them, even if by no other means than a hole in your sensor sweep. I can see implementation for this, though perhaps you're right in that the actual identity of the ship would remain unknown. It's quite reasonable to assume that the ship ID would be masked as well, though you might determine type.

Really, for all the 20K years advancement of technology, sensors in EVE are horribly unreliable.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.14 07:22:00 - [6]
 

If you removed the show distance bit for the cloaked ships, I'd be all about this, and I generally hate any changes to cloaking.

I don't mind the fact that you can be picked up cloaked, but i dislike the distance because of things I can already think about doing to exploit knowing distances when the measure is small.

Ned Black
Posted - 2011.06.14 08:41:00 - [7]
 

I think removing local is a good idea, but adding cloaked ships to directional is bad... in fact, adding them there makes it even harder for cloaked ships than it currently is since now you only know someone is in system but not in what kind of ship.

Personally I want cloaks to function in a diffrent way from the current:

Prototype cloak: Remove from overview. Still fully visible in space and on overview. No reduction in sig size.

Improved cloak: Remove from overview and directional. If your ship is stationary it is harder to spot in space but not impossible, while moving a distortion is fairly easily seen in space. Slight reduction in sig size.

Covert ops cloak: Remove from overview, directional and (if not local is dropped then from local as well). If you are stationary you are all but impossible to spot in space, when you move a slight distortion is showed if you are close, if not then you will be more or less visible. Also the makes the sig size of the ship tiny so it takes a long time to target (even for interceptors) while being cloaked.

I would also like to add a Assault Covert Ops cloak that removes you from the same places as the covert ops cloak but has rougly the same cloaking effect as a improved cloak (maybe a tad bit better). The diffrence with this cloak and the regular one is that you can still use mods/weapons while being cloaked... mod effects are NOT cloaked however so that shining hardner effect will be fully visible for all to see.

Bo Tosh
Posted - 2011.06.14 09:33:00 - [8]
 

Removing local I can support, it needs doing as soon as possible but I see no need to change the D-scan to enable even the limited detection of cloaked vessel.

Cloaking is working as intended, you pay a penalty for being able to avoid detection already (i.e SB's are glass cannon) without trying to nerf it.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.06.14 10:12:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane

2) Cloaked ships now show up on directional scanner.... but with a twist. If you directonal scan a cloaked ship it will show up as orange "????????". The new directional scanner will be able to tell you the current distance of a cloaked ship, but you will not be able to tell which DIRECTION the cloaked ship is coming from.



Well done, you've just broken WH space.

Janos Saal
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.14 10:55:00 - [10]
 

How about no.

Eperor
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:38:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Eperor on 14/06/2011 11:38:54
how about reson that wil emty 0.0 coplitly no one wil run anomalys just sit pvp toons ins station and that its and launch them when needet. that weil hapen if you wil remuve local. And rater will be not able see reds with are incoming. probably you wil get first time soem kil but then 0.0 will beckome as desert. Allready its desert after last anomaly nerf.

Vastek Non
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:42:00 - [12]
 

Bad Idea.

NO.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.06.15 14:22:00 - [13]
 

In all honesty; I could care less for about the cloaking part in general. The only reason I added it was to throw a bone to people who can't stand the thought of losing local and would become all emo. I spend the vast majority of time in W-Space and have zero problem with current cloaking mechanics.

Still we have to learn to give and take; and if you want local removed you will need to make some concessions somewhere.

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:47:00 - [14]
 

Remove the distance to the cloaked ship and I'll support this.

And a resounding **** no to everything Mars Theran posted.

Salomei
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:59:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Salomei on 15/06/2011 17:59:43
Originally by: Sader Rykane
we have to learn to give and take; and if you want local removed you will need to make some concessions somewhere.

The take is real-time updates of local, the give is putting the fear of empty space back into people YARRRR!!

I can see hisec having good lore reasons for realtime local. CONCORD always know exactly who and where you are, after all. Maybe timed or sig-related delays in losec to allow quick ambushes. Go WH style in 0.0 or maybe give control to sov-holders via deployables.

Edit: Cloaks are just fine as is.

Eperor
Posted - 2011.06.16 10:07:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Salomei
Edited by: Salomei on 15/06/2011 17:59:43
Originally by: Sader Rykane
we have to learn to give and take; and if you want local removed you will need to make some concessions somewhere.

The take is real-time updates of local, the give is putting the fear of empty space back into people YARRRR!!

I can see hisec having good lore reasons for realtime local. CONCORD always know exactly who and where you are, after all. Maybe timed or sig-related delays in losec to allow quick ambushes. Go WH style in 0.0 or maybe give control to sov-holders via deployables.

Edit: Cloaks are just fine as is.


they are not okay, to mey afk clouckers araund to litle eforce from thos to kil some one, IF some one teling me thet they are vurnible when lauch cyno than that bul**** _ when they launch cuno allready to late.
NEdd to be soem mechanics to get rid off them hoo is siting in sytems days and weeks cloucked. actualy, i have one idea just put mesage there that and that guy cloucked in system that every one see it. if hee nto tuching that char notm oving ship etc, for like 30 mins than masage up that and that its uinactive and when hee is active presed sotming or moved ship. then agein warnign that and that cloucker its active. that ways couck remaisn how its is but all will knoe that that guy is afk and no need to frade off him. and if hee start move ship or do wath ever action in game with that char again mesage up so every one knows and if wish can awoud or set trap for him.


 

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