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blankseplocked Incarna CQ Lighting; makes character models look very bad!
 
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Kronir
Posted - 2011.06.11 11:58:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Kronir on 11/06/2011 15:48:35
I know this has been mentioned elsewhere a few times, but I think it deserves its own thread.

I'd like to get an idea of how many people this actually bothers.

Here is the issue:
  • The poor light placement makes character models look very bad

  • The effort put into character creation is wasted, because once in CQ the character looks totally different due to crazy shadows created by poor light placement

  • There are only two or three spots in the CQ which are decently lighted. These are directly under the lights or in front of the mirror.

  • Shadows on the characters are far too hash.


EDIT: To clarify I am talking about poor light placement in the CQ. Not poor graphics engine and not bad lighting technique. :EDIT

This was under the latest build on Duality which the devs. have stated is using the 'final lighting'.

Here is an example:
Poor Light Placement in CQ "ruins" the appearance of character models

In that example, you can see how drastically different the character looks, simply by moving a few steps into the CQ. The screenshot contains little details of the CQ itself as the furniture and fittings look very good under this build; the problem is how the light placement makes the characters look very bad.

Anyone else think this needs fixing? I feel it is a complete immersion breaker.


Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:01:00 - [2]
 

My Bug Report ID for this is/was 112725. Rolling Eyes

Rixiu
The Inuits
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:05:00 - [3]
 

CCP just doesn't do lightning. Just look at the lightning model used in space, it's awful (although not as awful as the current CQ one).

Solstice Project
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:17:00 - [4]
 


The screenshots are bad.

Please provide better examples.
The examples you gave actually lack any real content or detail.
It's all just pretty much grey and there's ONE light...
More background, please. More lights.

Put your avatar somewhere where more lights are,
so we can get a better picture of how it really is.

Please note, i'm not saying anthing against your oppinion,
i'm just asking for better screenshots, because these are bad to support your argument.

Solstice Project
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:21:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Rixiu
CCP just doesn't do lightning. Just look at the lightning model used in space, it's awful (although not as awful as the current CQ one).


It's actually pretty good.
You won't get much more out of space anyway.

Or maybe you're talking about something else,
but use the term "lightning" because light has something to do with it.

"Lightning" is a term that covers many things...

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:23:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 11/06/2011 12:24:39
Originally by: Solstice Project
The screenshots are bad.
Please provide better examples.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1105/DualityMaxTestrun.mkv
7.7 MB, pixel-to-pixel 1600x1024 cropped to 512x688 with character face near the center, 44 seconds.

Disteeler
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:44:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Disteeler on 11/06/2011 12:46:14
FYI, I think Incarna interiors use real time radiosity from Geomerics. Not many games use radiosity, not even Crysis. AFAIK is a way more natural lighting. Google about it.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:46:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Disteeler
FYI, I think Incarna interiors use real time radiosity from Geomerics. Google about it.

They might as well make organic scale simulacra plus scale CQ models and film them with a camera and stream you the resulting video, that doesn't help one single bit if the placement of the lights is CRAP to begin with.

Disteeler
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:47:00 - [9]
 

Change the lamp placement then XD

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:48:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Disteeler
Change the lamp placement then XD

That's more or less // at least partially what the OP is asking.

Disteeler
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:50:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Disteeler on 11/06/2011 12:51:04
mhhh I thought he was saying the technique used was bad. The thing is, with the actual "lamps" placement, the lighting is as natural and realistic as you can get in a game (at least Geomerics says so).

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.11 13:23:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 11/06/2011 13:23:49

source
Quote:
Incarna is a avatar rendering engine that is being created for CCP's EVE MMO. Why this pertains to us is this will be the same technology they will use in the WoD MMO client engine. So this is quite important as if it's good in EVE it certainly bodes well for us. Here is a demo video showing off the Incarna rendering engine dated Mar 2010

Quote:
Incarna will make use of a radiosity based lighting system licensed from Geometrics. As described at the CCP Presents! panel at Fanfest 2009:
"It means that you can have just one light source and then that light source will bounce all over the room; it will pick up the light that is already on the wall and then bounce that light back. So if you have a green wall lit by a white light there will actually be a greenish hue on the entire room. And this gives you a really warm, fuzzy look to the interiors. This is actually something we're working hard on because the look for the space is really crafted in Eve to be a harsh, and dark contrasty look; partially because that's how space looks, but also because we want to give you that feeling that Eve is a dark and cold place, and people can really screw you over, right? So we deliver that through the visuals when you're in space. However in stations, as we're deploying Incarna, you won't be able to kill people, at least not in the first iterations, so it makes a lot of sense for us to develop a different kind of lighting model. So we want this [to be] more of a soft, warmer model and that's what this technology allows us to do."




See for yourself.
Incarna & Nvidia APEX


Riiight ...

Or just leave the good old hanger in already and give us your fricken radiosity when we choose to see it... Evil or Very Mad

Daniela Darr
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.11 14:21:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Daniela Darr on 11/06/2011 14:21:28

Coompared to the last build it starts to look better now. At last I'm not looking like some weird monster anymore ^^

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.06.11 14:45:00 - [14]
 

*hissssss* i'm a vampiiiiirreeee Razz


Kronir
Posted - 2011.06.11 15:21:00 - [15]
 

I have updated my original post to highlight the fact I am talking about poor light placement.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.11 17:18:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Daniela Darr
Edited by: Daniela Darr on 11/06/2011 14:21:28

Coompared to the last build it starts to look better now. At last I'm not looking like some weird monster anymore ^^


I wodner what is so hard to aprehend with "this is a BETA and we are TESTING it in Duality, so it is a WORK IN PROGRESS and it DOES NOT represent the finished product by a thousand miles".

The OP should had not seen how the character was not being illuminated at the first Beta...

Atticus Fynch
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.11 17:22:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Disteeler
Edited by: Disteeler on 11/06/2011 12:46:14
FYI, I think Incarna interiors use real time radiosity from Geomerics. Not many games use radiosity, not even Crysis. AFAIK is a way more natural lighting. Google about it.


Great, it's natural...and it sucks.

...and by "natural" what you mean is optically correct based on RW physics.

I'd rather have something not so natural that looks good than optically correct that sucks.

Kronir
Posted - 2011.06.11 17:33:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai

The OP should had not seen how the character was not being illuminated at the first Beta...


I've played every Beta of CQ. I've held off commenting on lighting until now.

Reason I comment now: The Devs have said that the lighting now on Sisi is the final lighting i.e. the lighting is no longer WIP.

Ische Qou
Amarr
Ische Shipbuilding Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.12 00:26:00 - [19]
 

is this "radiosity based lighting system licensed from Geometrics" really being used in the CQ?

haven't noticed CCP talking about it recently

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2011.06.12 01:43:00 - [20]
 

Seems to me that radiosity was one of the things thrown away with the older WiS builds, I'd not make any assumptions about it being in the new CQ

Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.06.12 08:07:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes
Is this really me?
Crying or Very sad



Jesus, what a ugly fatty

I hope CCP will fix this before incarna goes live .. ugh

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.12 09:21:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
They are particularly psyched about the customization framework. they claim they have in fact, hired a fashion consultant, to help make the system more realistic and stylish.


Oh, there's the problem right there. Alright who hired the fashion consultant? Don't people know that thjose people are deranged and trying to inflict their own obscure, deranged vision on the world?

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.12 09:51:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran
Quote:
They are particularly psyched about the customization framework. they claim they have in fact, hired a fashion consultant, to help make the system more realistic and stylish.


Oh, there's the problem right there. Alright who hired the fashion consultant? Don't people know that thjose people are deranged and trying to inflict their own obscure, deranged vision on the world?


Yep, utterly deranged:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.12 11:24:00 - [24]
 

Actually, your character looks fine, but I think you knew that.

Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.06.12 11:32:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Scarlet des Loupes on 12/06/2011 11:41:20
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Yep, utterly deranged:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Doh from that angle it all looks ok.
Now turn her around and take a picture. You'll look as deformed as I do on my other pics:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.06.12 11:38:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 12/06/2011 11:40:33
Yeah the highlights and self shadowing are totally off in some places. Wouldn't even know how to express it CGI-terms. It's amplified by there being too few light sources. Call it the spooky flashlight effect.

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2011.06.12 11:47:00 - [27]
 

The lighting seems to have only a few diffuse lighting spources. It lacks some Ambient lighting or if they are using some sort of reflection based ambient lighting they need to rework the material properties.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.12 12:19:00 - [28]
 

Scarlett, I was talking about CCP having hired a fashion designer. Obviously I looked for a well illuminated area and skipped the troublesome ones (albeit ambient light from the hangar makes everyone look awfully pale).

Most of the alley is a tricky area.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.12 12:24:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Soden Rah on 12/06/2011 12:24:31
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Scarlett, I was talking about CCP having hired a fashion designer. Obviously I looked for a well illuminated area and skipped the troublesome ones (albeit ambient light from the hangar makes everyone look awfully pale).

Most of the alley is a tricky area.


It needs some up lighters under the grate, which should not only look cool but will make peoples faces look much better.

If they are using some form of ray tracing for the light then walking on a grate will cause issues as most of the light goes strait through it so you get very little uplighting, so putting in more uplighting would help solve it...
plus it looks cool.
If you want to make somewhere look dark and grimy but still have decent lighting on your actors its almost always done with some form of uplighting.

Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.06.12 12:41:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Scarlett, I was talking about CCP having hired a fashion designer. Obviously I looked for a well illuminated area and skipped the troublesome ones (albeit ambient light from the hangar makes everyone look awfully pale).

Most of the alley is a tricky area.

Oh then my apologies! :x

Must say the new clothes are definitely an improvement, I hope we get a huge collection to choose from so people won't be all wearing the same clothes! :)


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