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Jenn Ji'e'toh
Posted - 2011.06.27 04:02:00 - [211]
 

Edited by: Jenn Ji''e''toh on 27/06/2011 04:05:33
The daredevil is insanely over powered. equipped right i can get it to 3453m/s with a prototype 150mm guasen cannon i can get it to do 17 damage per second witch is as much as 2 missiles launchers on my rifter (i am better with misses then turrets), I can also get it to shoot at 39km optimum range with 11km fall off leaving me around 45km range hitting most of the time theoretically, witch beats my missile range, combine that with several targeting range increase i can get it's targeting range to 55km with a completely stable fit. For a kite a dare devil is a more dangerous ship then the dremail. With those stats i could easily out run a sleeper frigate and take it down, and if i really wanted to i could get 2 rail guns equipped although i would lose the savager, and have to lower the ships targeting range down to 44km. (my fitting also includes a codebreaker and probe launcher. The code breaker and salvager do make it unstable). combine that with very little training compared to tech 2's a newbie could probably fly one in a month with these stats, and fittings easily and get the same results. If you ask me i think factions should be weaker then tech 2's but stronger then tech 1's because you have to earn them.

since i don't have access to the ship this is in eve ship fitter to do my fitting (i do not have 90mill to spend on a ship)
rigging i have 3 hybrid locus coordinators
for low slots i have 2 tech 2 signal amplifiers a bet reactor control and a f-4aq tracking sytem
medium i have catalyzed cold gas arc jets (the micro warp drive,) f-90 position sub routines with a targeting range sub script, and a code breaker
for high i have 1 150mm gausen cannon, 1 core probe launcher, and 1 salvger

my stats that effect this ship
energy grid upgrades lv 3
electronic upgrades lv 5
acceleration control lv 3
high speed maneuvering lv 2
controlled bursts lv 1
advanced weapon upgrades lv 0
weapon upgrades lv 2
small hybrid turrets lv 2
gunnery lv 4
motion prediction lv 3
rapid firing lv 2
sharp shooter lv 3
surgical strike lv 0
trajectory analysis lv 2
weapon upgrades lv 2
therm o dynamics lv 0
gallent frigates lv 3
navigation lv 4
mimtar frigate if your kiting you don't use propulsion jammers
electronics lv 4
energy grid upgrades lv 3
energy management lv 2
engineering lv 3
long range targeting lv 2
there is a 10day skills here, but the truth is that this is probably about a good months training if less most of these skills are low level skills.
Sorry about any mispelling

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:45:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Corranos Blaise
..You already nerfed the drake..

Huh? They changed the way missiles are handled by server but as far as I know the ship itself has had nothing done to it.
Mind pointing me in the right direction in the unlikely case that I am mistaken?

Dramiel was doomed the second the people who helped create the FoTM status began speaking out against it (Hi, GENOS o/)
Originally by: Jenn Ji'e'toh
The daredevil is insanely over powered...

Ships are balanced primarily with PvP in mind, so PvE performance is of secondary concern. It has resulted in a lot more Vindicators, Machs, Rattlers etc. being used for missions which is fine as the pinata value of mission pimp whoring-boats helps cull the herd Very Happy

bread bringer
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:18:00 - [213]
 

would be nice to see other faction frigs out in null sec than just the dramiel

S'qarpium D'igil
Posted - 2011.06.27 14:01:00 - [214]
 

Would like to see a boost for the Succubus, too.

VonKolroth
Gallente
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:21:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: fukier
"but I suppose you could experiment with replacing it with a remote ECCM bonus." (lazy quote)

hmm... i like the sound of that...
well either that or the mwd bonus

"You mad? 4 L.Reps + 1600RT barely fits on a Guardian and Amarr are the grid happy bunch"

yes i am crazy... like a fox... though scimi is shield gangs and it being fast works well for it... armor ships are not fast... plus the gal logi does not get cap tsf bonus so giving it insane tank could offset in the areas its lacking...



This exactly what I was going to suggest, Basi's and Guardians are favored for 1 simple reason, cap transfer is always useful to almost every fleet on any field. Tracking links, not so much. Remote ECCM bonuses Oneros would fit the role and be more useful for any armor fleet that incorporated it and put it in line with the Guardian. I wouldn't even mind that it was burning 1 less large rep then the guardian to do it.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:52:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: VonKolroth
Remote ECCM bonuses Oneros would fit the role and be more useful for any armor fleet that incorporated it and put it in line with the Guardian. I wouldn't even mind that it was burning 1 less large rep then the guardian to do it.


While not a bad idea in itself, I think we should be careful with remote ECCM bonuses. ECM needs to retain its position as one of the counters to logistics - and a substantial remote ECCM bonus would be going directly against that.

lech lizdian
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:28:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: VonKolroth
Remote ECCM bonuses Oneros would fit the role and be more useful for any armor fleet that incorporated it and put it in line with the Guardian. I wouldn't even mind that it was burning 1 less large rep then the guardian to do it.


While not a bad idea in itself, I think we should be careful with remote ECCM bonuses. ECM needs to retain its position as one of the counters to logistics - and a substantial remote ECCM bonus would be going directly against that.


Ok don boost the strength of remote eccm... Make the bonus for ante and cap use reduction

Mekhana
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.06.28 22:05:00 - [218]
 

Currently ECM is a counter against everything except super caps. ECM ships are currently too strong compared to their other EWAR ship counterparts.

I think the ECCM boost is a wonderful idea.

Dumb Blond
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.29 15:24:00 - [219]
 

dictor/hictor bubbles and cloaks.... and dont let my name fool you

right now i can uncloak eather my sabre or devoter and instantly put up a bubble for ALL other forms of Ewar you have to wait to lock the target which again AFTER decloaking you have a no locking timer perhaps its time to add a decloak to bubble timer?

right now we have gangs of people going around and cloaking up on gates, cyno towers and jbs (granted many in hacs etc but thats another matter) but the bubblers have no penalty to fitting a cloak for camps as their primary role is to launch a bubble which atm happens instantly when the other ships have to wait a few seconds b4 locking and doing their jobs doesnt that make bubblers abit overpowered?

coz right now they can stop your warping instantly after turning off their cloaks

also this could be applied to cynos

Selnix
Gallente
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:28:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: CCP Tallest
About the Oneiros... What do you think about increasing the armor to about 3000, reducing the sig radius to 70 and adding a little space to the drone bay for spare drones?


Change the tracking link range bonus to armor drone optimal range bonus. Amend the 20% drone transfer amount bonus to be 25% transfer and drone hitpoint bonus to allow them some chance of getting repped if attacked given they are twice as fragile as damage drones.
Change the logi skill tracking link bonus to +5km drone operation range bonus.

Increase drone bay to 400m3 and bandwidth to 125mbit.
Keep your 3000 armor idea
Change sig to 65 maybe?

With heavy armor bots the Oneiros would then be capable of repairing slightly more than a guardian with a cap stable fit but would still be vulnerable to jamming as it is now. On the up side, some percentage of the repair would continue while jammed due to the drones. Proper use of bombs or support attacking armor bots would be able to counter the reps while the drone bay capacity would allow for the ship to retain some of its utility through a bit of the micromanagement with which Gallente must approach any drone related task. It would also give the pilot the added choice of whether to apply their local remote reps to their drones should they come under attack or to put the reps on their fellow pilots. Should the pilot wish to drop down to medium drones they would have sufficient drone bay to hold ample spares for a long damn time with a reduced repair capacity.

Shadow Wind
Gallente
Crimson Empire.
Posted - 2011.06.29 23:10:00 - [221]
 

Please rebalance hybrids (gallente as well)

Shadow Wind
Gallente
Crimson Empire.
Posted - 2011.06.29 23:15:00 - [222]
 

Give the oneiros bonus to repair drones which makes them a bit stronger in the "self tank" as a balance to the guardian.

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.30 12:23:00 - [223]
 

Just don't touch the Logi's for the worse yea? I just finished Logistics V. Rolling Eyes

Diana Valenti
Minmatar
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:26:00 - [224]
 

Nerf Dramiel and buff gallente :p

Diandathu
Gallente
Crimson Empire.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:14:00 - [225]
 

Edited by: Diandathu on 01/07/2011 18:17:31
The dram is fine as it is, yes it is powered higher than other frigs but what frig also cost 55+m just for the bpc? Its price reflects its use, I could understand if bpcs where available for 20m or lower, another thing to think about is dramiel pilots are one of the largest investors in snake implants you nerf the dram and you also loose that market variable.

Edit: One other thought its speed is its tank, it doesnt have a t2 tank like t2 frigs granted in a frig thats not alot but it is something comparable to the drams speed.

Scandal Caulker
Posted - 2011.07.01 21:04:00 - [226]
 

Been looking at the Succubus and I've seen a really simple buff that would bring it in line.

+1 turret hard point.

No boost to any other stats. This would give a MSE fit 280 DPS (conflag) with 10.7k EHP (with fleet bonuses).

Looking at all the faction ships the Sansha line up seem to be gank boats. With an extra turret slot the succubus would be perfect. Obviously this is solely my opinion.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.02 13:35:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Scandal Caulker
Been looking at the Succubus and I've seen a really simple buff that would bring it in line...

Suck-a-bus is getting 107dps per mounted gun with a single heatsink (my skills), don't know how you only get 280dps after adding a slot.

The ship itself does tons of damage already, but it (and the bigger brothers) inherit the ****** mobility of Caldari so are sitting ducks for the most part.
Sansha hulls needs to be sped up somehow or rebuilt from scratch as was done with all the other pirate hulls .. why they left them out in the refresh is anyones guess ..

PANZER1233000
Posted - 2011.07.02 13:40:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: CCP Tallest
Hello EVE players. I'm CCP Tallest and I'll be doing some much needed ship balancing in the coming months. Being on Team BFF, aka "the little things" team, I wanted to start with some low-hanging fruit and work my way up to the bigger balancing issues. These changes are not set in stone and I would very much like to hear what you think of them. Without further ado, here is what I'm thinking so far:

Lostistics
The thing that really stands out is the warp speed. It's lower than all the other tech 2 cruisers and that's just not cool.

Ship Warp Speed: from 3 AU/S to 3.75 AU/s


Dramiel
It's too fast. Obvious dev is obvious. Specifically, the mass is far too low when compared to other frigates. The scan resolution is also very high for a non-interceptor and I want to lower that as well.

Mass: from 740,700 kg to 950,000 kg
Max Velocity: from 473m/s to 460m/s
Scan Resolution: from 990mm to 750mm

Non-modified MWDII speed would go from 5,058m/s to 4,292m/s
Non-modified ABII speed would go from 1,797m/s to 1,578m/s
Aligning speed will go from 3.2s to 4.1s
Dramiel will still be the fastest frigate, but will go from 1. to 2. place in align-speed (after Daredevil)

Disclaimer: I know that there are many other things that are in need of balancing. I've started with these two because I had to start somewhere and the solutions to these seemed relatively simple compared to other ships/classes. Other ships/classes will also be rebalanced in the coming months.

Disclaimer II: We do not have a release date for any ship balancing changes at this point, but it will definitely not be released in the upcoming Incarna patch.


You kill solo PvP ....... It and so there is almost no

Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.07.02 15:02:00 - [229]
 

Edited by: Raimo on 02/07/2011 15:03:49

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Scandal Caulker
Been looking at the Succubus and I've seen a really simple buff that would bring it in line...

Suck-a-bus is getting 107dps per mounted gun with a single heatsink (my skills), don't know how you only get 280dps after adding a slot.

The ship itself does tons of damage already, but it (and the bigger brothers) inherit the ****** mobility of Caldari so are sitting ducks for the most part.
Sansha hulls needs to be sped up somehow or rebuilt from scratch as was done with all the other pirate hulls .. why they left them out in the refresh is anyones guess ..


Because Sansha was buffed earlier, and were the only good pirate hulls before the boost(Great, actually. Succubus was so much fun). In fact during the faction ship overhaul they NERFED Sansha a bit while boosting the others if I recall correctly (at least the Phantasm), which in hindsight was probably not the smartest of moves :D

Oh and the poster above me is trollin so badly

Scandal Caulker
Posted - 2011.07.02 15:45:00 - [230]
 

Edited by: Scandal Caulker on 02/07/2011 15:46:22
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Scandal Caulker
Been looking at the Succubus and I've seen a really simple buff that would bring it in line...

Suck-a-bus is getting 107dps per mounted gun with a single heatsink (my skills), don't know how you only get 280dps after adding a slot.



Well if you want to keep those guns shooting you're gonna need a Nos which you can only fit if you use dual light lasers but I suppose a slight nerf to PG to prevent a triple medium pulse laser fit would work if you had three turret slots

Although, you're really gonna be struggling for CPU with 3 medium pulse II's


Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:04:00 - [231]
 

I'd certainly love to see some love for the Oneiros. 3000 Armour is maybe a bit too much, but a bump to base armour would be nice. A bit more mobility also would be good imo. Slot layout I'm not too worried about. Though, 4,4,5 obviously is going to be more useful when it comes to armour tanking.

Xorth Adimus
Caldari
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.07.02 21:41:00 - [232]
 


The Dramiel is not overly too fast, interceptors and frigates in general are just too slow to do the job of a tackler well enough. Destroyers are also terrible (outside of thrasher hulls) when they should be the counter to them.

Assault frigates do not have 4th bonus.

Scan resolution is a little high, other then that stop nerfing stuff that works and fix other content.

Faction frigates are meant to be over priced ships with a niche. Dramiel's is speed and damage, don't destroy this unique ship simply because most other other frigates are terrible and have no real purpose. A weakness could be sensor strength its already large sig (with MSE) and poorer scan res and its existing EM resists.

Write down the point for each frigate as a useful frigate role and give them bonus's and penalties for each. Don't do any of that generic race bonus either think of something useful and unique.

Garreth Vlox
Minmatar
Obsidian Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.03 04:07:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Originally by: CCP Tallest



Disclaimer II: We do not have a release date for any ship balancing changes at this point, but it will definitely not be released in the upcoming Incarna patch.


Great initiative, Greyscale. Hopefully you can stick this in Incarna 1.1 or whatever.


did you even read his post?


Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:57:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: Xorth Adimus
.. Dramiel's is speed and damage...

They are a full 25%+ faster than interceptors whose raison d'Ítre are speed.
They do damage similar to combat interceptors and some AFs.
They can field buffer tanks to rival AFs.

You say you want the first two, fine how about nixing a midslot then or making fittings so atrocious as to make a medium extender fit all but impossible?
These are old ideas, as old as the introduction of the current OP config and they do solve it but makes it not really worth it (aka. Suck-a-bus syndrome). Cutting speed/agility lets them perform as interceptor speed AFs or close to and should be enough but SiSi will tell.

Would be pretty awesome if they did away with the tier system and gave all the various hulls something to excel at, I'll grant you that Very Happy

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.07.03 13:55:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: Xorth Adimus
Dramiel's is speed and damage...


It is possible to keep the Dramiel's speed and damage and balance it properly, but you'd have to give up other attributes. Such as agility and EHP. If the Dramiel had a ~5 s base align time and was unable to fit a MSE, maybe?

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.04 15:07:00 - [236]
 

finaly some ship balances!! awesome /me hughs u Laughing

check this out, this black op topic will help u guys alot, i spend quet some time on it; http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416

What the dramile makes good it the ability to dual prob it and have more hitpoints than a avarage assault friget. This because u can fit a medium shield extender and 3 extender rights. Combine this with afterburner speed tanking and its win.

ps: Dont forget to nerf the hurricane, 600 dps, awesome buff tank, and 2 med neuts in the high slot will kill every other bc/bsExclamation add the good autocannon tracking / falloff/ range and ability to choose out 3 damage to do types and u see why its horrible overpowerd

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.04 22:35:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: Ogogov
Five medium repair drones in a fast-moving roaming gang. How useful.


bl uses rep drones, works for us

Holy Cheater
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.07.04 22:38:00 - [238]
 

You know, we have things like cruise missiles and blasters. And you seriously talking about... dramiels?

Logistics warp speed is also a very serious business, but why do you think this is a good place to start?

Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.07.05 09:24:00 - [239]
 

Because it's an easy, straightforward, non-controversial fix and as such a very good place to start.

I know this is eve-o and bitterness is to be expected, but reasonable, incremental balancing, with more to come, is the best news we've had in a long time. Such direction should be encouraged and I, for one, welcome our new balancing dev overlords.

Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:39:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: Lucas Quaan
Because it's an easy, straightforward, non-controversial fix and as such a very good place to start.

On a related note; why is the logi warp speed - a non-controversial and straight forward balancing fix if ever I heard one - not on TQ yet? Seems like a slam dunk.

What's the process for tweaking these things and what kind of turnaround can realistically be expected?


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