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Scandal Caulker
Posted - 2011.08.03 12:19:00 - [301]
 

Edited by: Scandal Caulker on 03/08/2011 12:31:34
I've been thinking about Super Carriers and how to rebalance them. At the minute SC's have a redicudunkulous amount of EHP due to the buff they received recently. This has made them nearly impossible to kill as the player can simply log off and unless you have a SupCap fleet you can't kill them in time.

So... Instead of playing with log off aggression timers and stuff why not nerf the EHP back but give the ships excellent active tanking abilities. Maybe remove their bonuses for Remote Repair (no one seems to fit for this anyway) and switch these to active tanking bonuses. Like a repair amount bonus or module duration bonus. These ships will still be very tough to kill if caught alone and with logistical support from other standard carriers tough as nails.

Edit: Oh and introduce X-Large rigs and X-Large Capacitor Boosters for capital ships.

Scandal Caulker
Posted - 2011.08.03 12:45:00 - [302]
 

Been thinking about Dreadnoughts too. Currently they have a single purpose which is POS Bashing and requires them to be in Siege mode to be worth anything in this role. This seems to be fine but in any other situation (ie combat) Siege mode is undesirable. The drawbacks to entering Siege mode in combat make it near impossible to hit anything smaller than a moon if it has any form of transversal. The 10 minute timer is also horrid compared to 5 minute timer on a triage module.

The Siege module works well when in "Siege mode". What I'm suggesting is that the module has two different modes. "Siege mode" is how we know it right now but "Combat Mode" would not cripple the hull when fighting ship to ship. Combat mode would not give the ship the same offensive buff but would also not reduce the weapons tracking or immobilise the ship. Combat mode should also have a shorter timer. 5 minutes maximum maybe even shorter to improve survivability and encourage use of going in and out of "Combat Mode" to be able to receive logistical support.

Obviously the ship will not be able to jump or enter warp whilst in "Combat Mode".

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.03 13:14:00 - [303]
 

Why would anyone use siege mode when combat mode offers all the benefits for none of the drawbacks?

Scandal Caulker
Posted - 2011.08.03 13:28:00 - [304]
 

Edited by: Scandal Caulker on 03/08/2011 13:29:53
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Why would anyone use siege mode when combat mode offers all the benefits for none of the drawbacks?


Like I said:
Originally by: Scandal Caulker
"Combat Mode" would not cripple the hull when fighting ship to ship. Combat mode would not give the ship the same offensive buff but would also not reduce the weapons tracking or immobilise the ship.


The Idea is to give similar survivability but lower offensive capability without the tracking, Scan resolution or immobilising draw backs. You would still want to use "Siege Mode" when hitting structures. Combat mode could also use up a lot more fuel as a draw back.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.03 14:07:00 - [305]
 

Just how low are we talking here, exactly?

Scandal Caulker
Posted - 2011.08.03 14:17:00 - [306]
 

I don't know. This idea is in its infancy and could be number crunched to death. How much DPS do you think a Dread should be able to deal ship to ship while in this theoretical "Combat Mode" that uses 2 or 3 times more fuel per cycle?

Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar
Caldari Investment and Security Industries
Innovia Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.03 20:18:00 - [307]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 02/08/2011 22:59:25
Quote:
i believe dramiels are fine the way they are. in my cane if you get within 10k you are dead.


So they're fine because they occasionally die with a stupid pilot flying them?
Also good luck getting your cane in range of a Dramiel that doesn't want you to.

Seriously, I have yet to see a single remotely convincing argument against nerfing the Dramiel. It's always the same few points:
"oh it costs more so it should be amazing"
"dramiels do die, so that makes them fine"
"OMFG JUST FLY ONE URSELF THEN LOLOLOL BRB GOING TO PLAY SOME COUNTERSTRIEK"


sure, if i run into a guy that does nothing but go from solo fight to solo fight in a dramiel then sure, he would be awesome and nearly impossible to take out.

but for instance the average pilot would just click orbit. if he does that then he is dead. all you have to do is fly right into his orbit and grab him. and with an average distance of 20k orbit at THE MOST. then i can be there in about 5-10 seconds.

Badger Beard
Posted - 2011.08.04 21:56:00 - [308]
 

Will the changes to the ships be first trialled on Sisi (so we have a chance to get first hand experience of the changes, offer better feedback and perhaps allow the opportunity for fine tuning) before they are applied to Tranq?

Bob Niac
Gallente
freelancers inc
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2011.08.05 04:12:00 - [309]
 

Refocus logi roles

Check out my post history if you want my opinions on logi. A lot in there.

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2011.08.05 13:57:00 - [310]
 

Didn't CCP Tallest get back from vacation on the 2nd? "Warriors, Come out and Plaaaaay!"

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.05 15:24:00 - [311]
 

Originally by: Marcus Caspius
The Dramiel is x5 or x6 the price than a regular t2 Frig and you have to train two ship skills to fly it. Off course is going to be proportionately more powerful.

I hate it when people just wanna nerf stuff.

Grow some b@ll$, train up some skills, stop being such a cheapskate and get your own Dramiel.

How do you beat a Dramiel? Buy and fly a Dramiel...Twisted Evil



The Daredevil and the Cruor are more expensive that the Dramiel but each have different weaknesses and don't completely overshadow every other single frigate in the game except for the Imperial Navy Slicer.

Your end quote is why the Dramiel is the problem and why it needs to be nerfed.

Spaceship Persona Ogeko
Posted - 2011.08.06 05:33:00 - [312]
 

As someone who flies the Oneiros on a regular basis some love to this ship would be awesome.

I really do not agree with making it more mobile (faster). It is an armor ship and should not be able to keep up with the Scim.

I do believe it should have a lower sig radius though and its slot layout revisted.

The TL bonus is very handy. I don't think that it needs a boost.

It will never be a popular ship.

Small(er) groups tend to kite and favour mobility therefore shield tank.

Larger groups tend to use armor and fight larger groups. Therefore chained cap will always be superior to keep max reps for max amount of time.

tl;dr - drop a mid for a low, reduce sig radius = fixed.

Elder Ozzian
Posted - 2011.08.08 19:11:00 - [313]
 

First: I know that Sansha suxx; They cannot even take over the universe...

I was browsing the market and checking out the pirate-faction frigates and noticed something. Who would fly a succubus? I haven't seen anyone flying it, and a quick calculation (which maybe wrong) tells me that even retribution may be better (quality>price atleast). So, tell me; Why should i buy succubus instead of any other faction frigate / t2 frigate?

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.09 12:07:00 - [314]
 

Quote:
So, tell me; Why should i buy succubus instead of any other faction frigate / t2 frigate?


You shouldn't. It has no particular "gimick" that the other factions do (e.g. 90% webs, high speed, etc.), and its stats are only around assault frigate level.

Christopher Azaph
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:40:00 - [315]
 

Why would you mess with the dramiel. I dont fly the ship. But, I can tell you that it gets hate because of people having a hard time killing it. Its a faction frig. It should stand out above the rest. I have seen both Cruors and Daredevils beast this ship. The align time not a big deal.... But, taking away the drams spead is taking away its strength. You have a 100 mil+ ship when all fit. You nerf it and you make it 100mil ship that no one flys.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.10 19:47:00 - [316]
 

Quote:
It should stand out above the rest.


The Succubus, Worm, Cruor and Daredevil are faction frigates as well. Note the lack of nerf threads for them.

Quote:
I have seen both Cruors and Daredevils beast this ship.


Have you seen Cruors and Daredevils with the same survivability and insane versatility of a Dramiel? I think not.

Quote:
You nerf it and you make it 100mil ship that no one flys.


Nope, you make it a 100mil ship that is good without being godmode in the hands of a half decent pilot. Same principle as the nano nerf back in QR.

Andy Landen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.11 00:17:00 - [317]
 

Edited by: Andy Landen on 11/08/2011 04:52:28
Originally by: Nyarlothotep
Originally by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Logistics: in addition of Warp speed revisit, some bonus or base stats rework so that the Oneiros becomes on pair with his Amarrian counterpart?

With maxed skills do you think that ships logistics dedicated, are not slightly fragile and too much cap consuming?


Besides the warp speed (which I never really noticed tbh), I think the Oneiros and Scimitar Tracking Link efficiency should be bumped up to 15%. I wish Defenders worked and the Oneiros had some launcher spots. And add another utility high slot...

I don't believe cap and fragility are an issue. I think the logistics ships are pretty balanced in combat. Spider tank solves the fragility issue. Cap boosters, fitting less reps, or not just keeping them running constantly solves most cap issues without making the ship too good.

Logistics ships are my favorite ship to fly. Nearly maxed out all skills that effect my Oneiros and Basilisk.


No one uses remote tracking links on the Oneiros or scimi. Furthermore, with good skills, a Basi or Guardian can easily fit and power 5 Lg RR with a single Lg Energy Transfer bounce between them. I think that with similarly good skills an Oneiros or Scimi should be able to fit and power 5 Lg RR too.
--------------------------------------------------
My logistics proposal:
Let's just make logistics simply little carriers. Helps in training for the roles.

Basi and Scimi: Bonus Shield resists (+5%). Bonus Shield RR and Energy transfer cap activation amount (-15%) and range (+150%). CPU need for shield transporter (-50%) and PG for Energy transfer (-50%).

Guardian and Oneiros: Bonus armor resists (+5%). Bonus Armor RR and Energy transfer cap activation amount (-15%) and range (+150%). PG need for Armor RR (-65%) and PG for Energy transfer (-50%).

All logi: Drone Bay 100 and bandwidth 50. Sensor strength 28. 6 High slots. Reduce PG and CPU for respective RR modules as current. Adapt CPU and PG of each to enable 5 lg respective RR and 1 lg Energy to be fit with logistics 5.
---------------------------------------------------
I couldn't agree more with Black Horizon:
Quote:
Edited by: Blackhorizon on 10/06/2011 14:07:16 Dear CCP Tallest, you are approaching this the wrong way. Frigates, as a class in general, are underused and underpowered in serious PvP. Rather than nerfing the Dramiel, you should look to bring other frigates on par with the Dramiel, or better. This includes non-faction frigates like condors and executioners that right now are more or less just glorified shuttles. I'd suggest keeping the Dramiel the way it is, but bringing other frigates in line with it in terms of capability and speed. Nerfing the Dramiel just hides the fact that many other frigates are wholly inadequate or useless.


On Super caps (I fly thanatos), I recommend Cap Energy neutralizer, reduction of bomber dps, increase in carrier drones per carrier level to 2 per level to more similarly match the supercarrier bonus. Also, trade thanatos shield RR bonus for a 10% dps and hp drone bonus to all drones, similar to the dominix and ishtar. After all, unlike Minmatar, Gallente almost exclusively armor tank (not shield), and the gallente carrier is a pure drone boat like the domi. Such a trade seems to fit quite well with the traditional Gallente drone boat role.

We need to do something about the super being immune to being pointed; bubbles don't count. Like, get rid of it. At the very least, set the super's warp core stability to 10 so that 11 points or a HIC's infinite point (especially useful in low sec) holds the super.

Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.08.11 15:51:00 - [318]
 

Two months and counting to change the warp speed of logis. Seriously, what's going on over there?

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2011.08.11 16:41:00 - [319]
 

Originally by: Ravcharas
Two months and counting to change the warp speed of logis. Seriously, what's going on over there?
CCP Tallest is currently decomposing in my cargohold. Sorry.

clone667
Posted - 2011.08.11 17:05:00 - [320]
 

I also think that other frigates, tech 1 and others should be improved in order to compete with the Dram, and not nerf such a great frigate.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.11 22:18:00 - [321]
 

Originally by: clone667
I also think that other frigates, tech 1 and others should be improved in order to compete with the Dram, and not nerf such a great frigate.


Hmmm, let's think about what's easier and less potentially damaging to the game:
- Nerfing one ludicrously overpowered ship
- Buffing 30 others

If you can't work out which is the more sensible one, I honestly feel sorry for you.

Nyla Skin
Unknown Soldiers
B O R G
Posted - 2011.08.12 10:39:00 - [322]
 

Devs shouldnt do whats easy, they should do whats right.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.12 14:43:00 - [323]
 

Originally by: Nyla Skin
Devs shouldnt do whats easy, they should do whats right.


What about when easy and right are the same thing?
Nerf the Dramiel.

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.08.14 03:48:00 - [324]
 

Originally by: Andy Landen

My logistics proposal:
Let's just make logistics simply little carriers. Helps in training for the roles.

Basi and Scimi: Bonus Shield resists (+5%). Bonus Shield RR and Energy transfer cap activation amount (-15%) and range (+150%). CPU need for shield transporter (-50%) and PG for Energy transfer (-50%).

Guardian and Oneiros: Bonus armor resists (+5%). Bonus Armor RR and Energy transfer cap activation amount (-15%) and range (+150%). PG need for Armor RR (-65%) and PG for Energy transfer (-50%).

All logi: Drone Bay 100 and bandwidth 50. Sensor strength 28. 6 High slots. Reduce PG and CPU for respective RR modules as current. Adapt CPU and PG of each to enable 5 lg respective RR and 1 lg Energy to be fit with logistics 5.

Logistics are already overpowered and are to be fixed at some point. There's no need whatsoever to promote even wider use of them.

Larla Rosethorn
Minmatar
Renegade Pleasure Androids
Posted - 2011.08.15 07:15:00 - [325]
 

Please fix Nidhoggur.

Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.08.15 14:54:00 - [326]
 

Originally by: Larla Rosethorn
Please fix Nidhoggur.

Please do something. Anything.

Mark It Zero
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:35:00 - [327]
 

How about ship balancing Gallente and hybrid weapons?

Eve-kill top 20 pvp ships.... 0 gallente
Eve-kill top 20 weapon types.... 2 gallente (17 and 20)

http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20

Meanwhile keep working on that warp speed for logis.



Tza Omi
Posted - 2011.08.16 20:32:00 - [328]
 

Interceptors should be the fastest ships in the game, its their niche. Dramiels suck

Rock Stripper
Posted - 2011.08.16 23:40:00 - [329]
 

Funny you keep killing fun. I have flown ever ship in eve between my accounts and I can honestly say the dramiel is one of the more fun ships to fly. I can see a crap load of other thing besides the dramiel that need to be balanced of fixed.

1. yes the warp speed of logistics needs to be fixed

2. The hel bonuses need to be changed because they are stupid. Who uses a super carrier as repping ship !!!!!

3. Hybrids defiantly need a buff of some kind thats no one uses them.

4. Something needs to be done about sc fleets , the only thing that counters them is a sc fleet so this kills player interactions with the hostile fleet because not everyone owns a super.

5. Get rid of station 3 timers all together.If they take it today we can take it right back tomorrow . This makes for constant pew pew and gives the little guy a chance to actually conquer a station. It would also make larger alliances stretch the assets further to guard regions or areas.They wouldnt have almost a week to get prepared for the fight. There by weakening them and making them easier targets for smaller aliances to compete if they take to much space.

Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2011.08.16 23:55:00 - [330]
 

Edited by: Slimy Worm on 16/08/2011 23:55:52
The Dramiel shouldn't be able to dual prop and fit a Medium Shield Extender at the same time, even if its speed is lowered. It shouldn't be able to out-tank and out-gank and Ishkur that has it webbed and scrammed. Take out some powergrid.


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