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Nypheas Azurai
Posted - 2011.06.10 08:48:00 - [1]
 

I'm getting on the flame suit, and surely it must have been mentioned before, but I gotta ask, what about an item set bonus?

I ask because you get those questions: "why do you have all Navy Federation" or "why are you rocking all Republic ...". And you know it's awesome and you know that it should be awesome, but really it's only awesome to you that instead of a few extra % here or there you got fully decked out in matching gear.

But I say why not add some awesome? A small set bonus like we have for implants. It just seems to make sense and at least we'd have a reason for hunting down that last faction mod in your region and not being OCD at all, nope not at all.

Rolare
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.10 09:04:00 - [2]
 

The bonus is the extra %.

Leah Solo
Posted - 2011.06.10 09:08:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Nypheas Azurai

It just seems to make sense



It doesn't.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.06.10 09:08:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
I'm getting on the flame suit, and surely it must have been mentioned before, but I gotta ask, what about an item set bonus?

I ask because you get those questions: "why do you have all Navy Federation" or "why are you rocking all Republic ...". And you know it's awesome and you know that it should be awesome, but really it's only awesome to you that instead of a few extra % here or there you got fully decked out in matching gear.

But I say why not add some awesome? A small set bonus like we have for implants. It just seems to make sense and at least we'd have a reason for hunting down that last faction mod in your region and not being OCD at all, nope not at all.


You know I always thought that would be neat if you fit your navy apoc with navy guns navy heatsink and navy everthing that you would get an "standard integration bonus" or something.

S'qarpium D'igil
Posted - 2011.06.10 09:27:00 - [5]
 

+5 dex for the rogue whose pants match his shirt amirite?

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.06.10 09:32:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 10/06/2011 09:37:26
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
I'm getting on the flame suit, and surely it must have been mentioned before, but I gotta ask, what about an item set bonus?

I ask because you get those questions: "why do you have all Navy Federation" or "why are you rocking all Republic ...". And you know it's awesome and you know that it should be awesome, but really it's only awesome to you that instead of a few extra % here or there you got fully decked out in matching gear.

But I say why not add some awesome? A small set bonus like we have for implants. It just seems to make sense and at least we'd have a reason for hunting down that last faction mod in your region and not being OCD at all, nope not at all.


While they're at it, why not just sell completed faction ships on market for cash? Oh oh, you know how all that RMT goes on with supercapital ships? Why not undercut those guys by selling those supercapitals directly to players? It'd be a great source of income AND it would let you avoid actually playing this pesky game for the goods it has!

Being serious for a second, this would be un-****ing-believably stupid for CCP to do. When you start selling competitive advantages for a cash price, an advantage is given to anyone who can pay money to bypass the two most valuable resources that the Sandbox has to offer; available time and available resources. Offering materials, ships, and other such things for money wipes out the value of both of these commodities, invalidating the sandbox. CCP puts a great deal of pride and faith into the great gears of EVE Online. Why on earth would they want to unlink the cogs?

EDIT: Oh god I read OP's post as something completely different from what it was. My bad. Embarassed

This idea actually has been offered before; having more faction items on a faction ship providing some stronger bonuses, much like implant sets enhance each other. It creates a very large number of balance co-dependencies, so it would mean an awful lot of work to implement and tweak if needed. Since CCP hasn't even bothered to have a "Balance Team" in the last two years, it would probably be smarter for everyone involved if this feature wasn't implemented before a game balancing group became a permanent staple at CCP.

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.06.10 09:39:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Leah Solo
Originally by: Nypheas Azurai

It just seems to make sense



It doesn't.

A 'full' set bonus doesn't make sense. eg 3x republic fleet gyro's on a phoon should not give any sort of set bonus. Caldari navy gear on a cyclone shouldn't give any set bonus.
However it *does* make sense that republic fleet gyro's give some sort of set bonus when equipped to republic fleet ships (fleet pest, fleet stabber etc).
Same for any other faction, domination gear for angel ships, serp gear for serp ships etc.

Logically these enhanced, custom-designed pieces of equipment would be optimised for the ships they were designed to be equipped to.

Basoically I think the idea of an 'item based set' is a silly idea and makes no sense in RP terms. I think that a ship/item set should give some bonus though if the factions match.

I'd implement it subtly as well, rather than the system that is in other games (the more items in the set, the bigger the bonus will be), I'd have the system in EVE give a flat bonus to each faction module equipped. Something like any RF modules on an RF ship should be 1-2% more effective, or something along those lines.
Nothing game breaking, but a subtle touch that encourages people to put matching faction gear on their faction ship.

Of course people flying true sansha ships would be very unhappy

Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
Posted - 2011.06.10 10:34:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Copine Callmeknau
However it *does* make sense that republic fleet gyro's give some sort of set bonus when equipped to republic fleet ships (fleet pest, fleet stabber etc).
Same for any other faction, domination gear for angel ships, serp gear for serp ships etc.

Logically these enhanced, custom-designed pieces of equipment would be optimised for the ships they were designed to be equipped to.

Basoically I think the idea of an 'item based set' is a silly idea and makes no sense in RP terms. I think that a ship/item set should give some bonus though if the factions match.

I'd implement it subtly as well, rather than the system that is in other games (the more items in the set, the bigger the bonus will be), I'd have the system in EVE give a flat bonus to each faction module equipped. Something like any RF modules on an RF ship should be 1-2% more effective, or something along those lines.
Nothing game breaking, but a subtle touch that encourages people to put matching faction gear on their faction ship.

Of course people flying true sansha ships would be very unhappy

I'd take it a bit further and say you would need a set of all affected modules... For a set bonus to DPS to take effect on, let's say a Fed Navy Mega, you'd need Fed Navy Mag Stabs, Fed Navy guns and Fed Navy ammo.

Nypheas Azurai
Posted - 2011.06.10 11:51:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Rolare
The bonus is the extra %.

Not really, if it were then many faction mods would be useless since there are others with better %.

Originally by: Leah Solo
It doesn't.

Well then, have fun explaining why bonus set implants exist.


Originally by: Copine Callmeknau
A 'full' set bonus doesn't make sense. eg 3x republic fleet gyro's on a phoon should not give any sort of set bonus. Caldari navy gear on a cyclone shouldn't give any set bonus.

That would be awesome too. Although "set" bonuses still make sense for just the mods. Think of: Centrino, Crossfire, SLI; these improve any system, not just computers made by Intel, ATI, or Nvidia (though they don't make computers!). MOLLE, ALICE, CADPAT, MARPAT; these systems enhance any soldier, not just soldiers of the American or Canadian forces.

It really does make sense for technologies of a set to integrate better and so provide better stats. Maybe they'd integrate even better when used with the right ship, and the definition of "set" can be tweaked for gameplay and balance. But I agree, having this in some form (any form!) can only enhance the game and provide some context for named/faction mods.

Lin-Young Borovskova
Posted - 2011.06.10 11:59:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
I'm getting on the flame suit, and surely it must have been mentioned before, but I gotta ask, what about an item set bonus?

I ask because you get those questions: "why do you have all Navy Federation" or "why are you rocking all Republic ...". And you know it's awesome and you know that it should be awesome, but really it's only awesome to you that instead of a few extra % here or there you got fully decked out in matching gear.

But I say why not add some awesome? A small set bonus like we have for implants. It just seems to make sense and at least we'd have a reason for hunting down that last faction mod in your region and not being OCD at all, nope not at all.


Awesome idea.

CCP gimme pleaz??

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.10 14:26:00 - [11]
 

This isn't wow son.

Zagam
Posted - 2011.06.10 14:35:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
This isn't wow son.

I was just thinking the same thing.

This isn't D&D or LOTRO or anything like that, either.

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.06.10 15:47:00 - [13]
 

I'm pretty sure i run a little bit faster when i wear matching socks.


Zagam
Posted - 2011.06.10 15:51:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Soi Mala
I'm pretty sure i run a little bit faster when i wear matching socks.



But you are SO much cooler wearing non-matching socks. Just like how some cars are believed to be faster when they have both chrome AND day-glo yellow paint.

SolidHadden
Minmatar
Sphere Industries
Posted - 2011.06.10 17:35:00 - [15]
 

There's the 'Elwynn' Armor Bulkhead that stacks with the 'Durotar' Shield Harmonizing Relay.
nice suit.

Nypheas Azurai
Posted - 2011.06.11 08:26:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
This isn't wow son.

Then kindly deposit your +5 implant bonus set at the door, I'll gladly have your "wow" stuffs since you want nothing to do with it right?

The idea already exists in the game, we need to take it further and breathe life into some of these faction mods that seem to serve no other purpose but to clutter up your comparison window.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.11 08:32:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
*snip*
This idea actually has been offered before; having more faction items on a faction ship providing some stronger bonuses, much like implant sets enhance each other. It creates a very large number of balance co-dependencies, so it would mean an awful lot of work to implement and tweak if needed. Since CCP hasn't even bothered to have a "Balance Team" in the last two years, it would probably be smarter for everyone involved if this feature wasn't implemented before a game balancing group became a permanent staple at CCP.

pretty much this ^^

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2011.06.11 10:57:00 - [18]
 

How many modules would the bonus develop from? From 3 Republic Fleet 150mm autos on a republic fleet Firetail? From 5 Dual 650s on a Republic Fleet 'phoon? Do you get the bonus with 5 Dual 650s on a Fleet 'pest? do you get an extra bonus for a sixth on the 'pest? or double considering you get a bonus for three on a Firetail? Or does every faction ship have a coded "prime fit" which yields the bonus (and would have to be rig free)? Would the bonus make up for the lack of rigs? more than make up for it? What about Drones?

Implants are easy, everyone has the same number of slots and they're fairly restrictive so defining a set bonus is straightforward.
Ships are more difficult, they have different numbers of slots, different numbers of hardpoints, different dronebays and your skills and implants give them different fitting stats. How do you take all of these things into account to provide set bonuses?

Nypheas Azurai
Posted - 2011.06.11 11:18:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Nypheas Azurai on 11/06/2011 11:40:11

Originally by: Jacob Holland
Implants are easy, everyone has the same number of slots and they're fairly restrictive so defining a set bonus is straightforward.
Ships are more difficult, they have different numbers of slots, different numbers of hardpoints, different dronebays and your skills and implants give them different fitting stats. How do you take all of these things into account to provide set bonuses?


More degrees of freedom is an advantage for better balancing. I'd like to see a non-linear ramp-up whereby a set bonus with only a partial set of items receives very little bonuses until a full set is approached. Another solution is to just use a simple threshold, either all items are present or not.

A bonus can be something such as x bonus for the set, or y bonus for each mod fitted from the set, with or without stacking

Examples 1: (simple bonus per mod)
Each Republic mod fitted gives 1% to web range of Republic webbers and 1% signature radius to Republic painters
[additional mods that affect this attribute will be penalized]

Example 2: (complex bonus per specific mods)
Each Federation Navy armor mod fitted gives 1% resist to each hardener equipped
Each Federation Navy turret mod fitted gives 0.5% tracking and 0.5% optimal range

Example 3: (static set bonus)
Fitting 1 of each Domination mods gives 1% warp scramble range and 1% velocity

I prefer the first two examples since they encourage players to keep building on a set.

The bonuses can be tweaked & tested as seen fit, and would probably only need to be very small; even a much lesser impact than implant set bonus. All that's needed is just the tiniest bit of context behind why collections of faction mods might exist.

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2011.06.11 13:32:00 - [20]
 

So fit any Shadow Serp mod and gain a bonus to damage?

For a start it's hardly a set bonus but more importantly it's just not a good idea.

Small bonuses have big effects, as seen in the days of Ludicrous Speed. Snakes, other speed implants, gang bonuses, ship bonuses, module bonuses stacking one on top of the other led to velocities which broke the physics engine.

I think, in the terms you seem to be thinking, that set bonuses represent too great a balancing issue.
More rigidly defined sets run into other issues...

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.11 13:41:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
But I say why not add some awesome?



You mean, not being able to die is not awesome enough for you.

Item set bonuses on clothing is totally artificial, the only set bonus you need on clothing is if you look good in it or not depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.11 14:01:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Nypheas Azurai
Originally by: Lady Spank
This isn't wow son.

Then kindly deposit your +5 implant bonus set at the door, I'll gladly have your "wow" stuffs since you want nothing to do with it right?

The idea already exists in the game, we need to take it further and breathe life into some of these faction mods that seem to serve no other purpose but to clutter up your comparison window.


I don't use +5's

You don't get a set bonus for a head of +5's

Yes there are implant sets, no we don't need arbitrary bonuses for sh*tfitting your ships. In most cases it is impossible to fully fit a ship in a single faction's items without introducing even more 'useless' faction mods. If you don't like the mods don't use them.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.06.11 14:23:00 - [23]
 

This is a really bad idea.

Not for the anti WOW reasons.

Putting 2 good items together for an even better result is what causes over powered builds that make people cry which males devs nerf.

Good game design is that a performance gains get harder and harder to achieve the further you you go from average.

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.12 12:35:00 - [24]
 

Moved from General Discussion.

shady trader
Posted - 2011.06.12 16:56:00 - [25]
 

If you do a search you will find a older thread about this basic idea. If memory serves there was even a few dev responses discussing it. I believe they were generally supportive of the idea but needed to think how it would work.


A simple one would be to give factions ammo a small bonus when used with same faction's guns/launchers.

Jekyl Eraser
Posted - 2011.06.12 18:47:00 - [26]
 

Why would forcing everyone use same item set be a good idea? Sets in every game just kill diversity and limit player choices.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.12 19:21:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
This is a really bad idea.

Not for the anti WOW reasons.

Putting 2 good items together for an even better result is what causes over powered builds that make people cry which males devs nerf.

Good game design is that a performance gains get harder and harder to achieve the further you you go from average.
^^ Pretty much that. The reason we have stacking penalties is because these kinds of combo bonuses used to create insanely overpowered setups this idea would bring that back and then make it worse than before.

Bonus-to-bonus mechanics are notoriously hard to get right, incredibly easy to get wrong, and just as easy to abuse to circumvent the balance limitations of the system.


 

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