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Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.09 17:55:00 - [1]
 

I'm trying to find an API dev agreement somewhere but I can't seem to find one. Does CCP allow us to charge for apps that use the Eve api? Is this why Capsuleer went down, because they weren't allowed to charge for their app? Thanks!

CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2011.06.09 21:22:00 - [2]
 

Charging money for programs or anything that makes use of our IP is not allowed. In order to do this you would need a business license from CCP and we currently are not offering these. If you feel like your creation would benefit from such an agreement between you and CCP you are more than welcome to inquire about it by emailing info@ccpgames.com.

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.09 21:28:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Charging money for programs or anything that makes use of our IP is not allowed. In order to do this you would need a business license from CCP and we currently are not offering these. If you feel like your creation would benefit from such an agreement between you and CCP you are more than welcome to inquire about it by emailing info@ccpgames.com.


Thanks so much for the quick response Zymurgist! Much appreciated. Yes, I have something in the kettle I've been tinkering with but still unready to present anything or release anything as of yet. Smile

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.10 09:57:00 - [4]
 

In the 3rd party Dev tracks at this year's fanfest, CCP mentioned that they will create a license model for 3rd party devs to allow these kind of things.

Immersive
Immersive Technology Solutions
Posted - 2011.06.10 12:37:00 - [5]
 

It is, however, quite legitimate to have subscribers pay ISK for services.

While not a direct monetisation, it can save you money on your personal eve subscriptions.

CCP Atlas

Posted - 2011.06.11 21:10:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
In the 3rd party Dev tracks at this year's fanfest, CCP mentioned that they will create a license model for 3rd party devs to allow these kind of things.

Indeed. There might even be a blog about it in the next few days.

FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Posted - 2011.06.12 07:16:00 - [7]
 

So to clarify...

If I develop a program, I could charge people ISK for it's use?

Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
Posted - 2011.06.12 09:36:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
So to clarify...

If I develop a program, I could charge people ISK for it's use?

You could already charge ISK, with the business license you could charge them with real $$.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:27:00 - [9]
 

hia atlas

well, your newest blog is out. interesting read and truly interesting reactions to it in the comment thread.

well, you will kill most the plattforms that serve the community and only try to even cover running cost, not even including development. truly great work you did there... :(

woddel

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:27:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: woddel
hia atlas

well, your newest blog is out. interesting read and truly interesting reactions to it in the comment thread.

well, you will kill most the plattforms that serve the community and only try to even cover running cost, not even including development. truly great work you did there... :(

woddel


This will have a couple effects, both being a benefit. I am guessing most of the skill-monitoring apps will still be free. When you delve a bit deeper in what you can do with a specific app or service, I am guessing it will start costing small amounts. Even if you purchased 5 apps for your various devices at $5 each, they'll still only cost you a total of $25.

Apple users are trained to pay for apps, thus the apps created are more profitable and people are able to devote more man-hours to work on them. Android is more difficult, and I'm starting to really hate the platform and the hodge-podge nature of it. Developing for iOS is much easier and more streamlined than developing for Android, and the many different combinations you get for display size and ppi, etc. You aren't guaranteed that your app will run correctly on all devices either. It's unfortunate, because I love developing in Java.

I am interested in deeper API's though. I would love a way to track your current position, and the position of others (if they give you access). You could create route memories, track fleets in battle, track your corporation's movements, even track packages and delivery.

Where's my PI api? An api that can show the coordinates on a planet, the current extractor times, and a way to sync a plan created with the api with Eve - so you have the plan you created in game.

Where's the way to sync and save our overview settings, window locations, and other custom user settings? The current way this can be done is very clunky and difficult.

An api for logging market data would be good, this way we don't need to monitor the cache. Or, a more streamlined version of a cache, that can be accessed via a simple api.

Just a few suggestions that I think can probably be accomplished with the $99 annual fee from developers. It would also make it more attractive for 3rd party devs to jump into the game. One of the reasons I haven't released my app yet.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:22:00 - [11]
 

the problem is not for the iphone apps sold on the itunes store -> there, you have an existing, working system for microbilling that people are used to (i got an ipad2 too...).

but imagine a regular website like mine, or evemaps.dotlan.net -> it is a huge hassle to create bindings to microbilling platforms like paypal and stuff. and people don't like to enter credit card numbers for $1.50. in the end, the cost of implementation and running is most likely higher than possible revenue.

ccp is clearly missing that point and everybody seems to simplify 3rd party community apps to iOS stuff on itunes...

an then, what is even more missed by ccp : most people are not even remotely INTERESTED in earning real life money. for myself for example, i got more than more than plenty of that - it has never been any intention of monetizing real life currency from my apps.

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:42:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Jim Luc on 15/06/2011 21:43:37
Originally by: woddel
the problem is not for the iphone apps sold on the itunes store -> there, you have an existing, working system for microbilling that people are used to (i got an ipad2 too...).

but imagine a regular website like mine, or evemaps.dotlan.net -> it is a huge hassle to create bindings to microbilling platforms like paypal and stuff. and people don't like to enter credit card numbers for $1.50. in the end, the cost of implementation and running is most likely higher than possible revenue.

ccp is clearly missing that point and everybody seems to simplify 3rd party community apps to iOS stuff on itunes...

an then, what is even more missed by ccp : most people are not even remotely INTERESTED in earning real life money. for myself for example, i got more than more than plenty of that - it has never been any intention of monetizing real life currency from my apps.


You're raising some good points that would have merit if CCP weren't offering a free license for those of you offering free services and websites. DotLan will still remain free, and I will bet anything that IF they start charging they will have free competitors quickly.

I think it's good that CCP locks this down now, before Dust hits. I am assuming that the current free offerings like EveMon and Eve Fitting Tool will still be free, and if not there will be free alternatives out there.

Azazel Mordred
Minmatar
Cloak of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:51:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jim Luc
I am interested in deeper API's though. I would love a way to track your current position, and the position of others (if they give you access). You could create route memories, track fleets in battle, track your corporation's movements, even track packages and delivery.

Where's my PI api? An api that can show the coordinates on a planet, the current extractor times, and a way to sync a plan created with the api with Eve - so you have the plan you created in game.

Where's the way to sync and save our overview settings, window locations, and other custom user settings? The current way this can be done is very clunky and difficult.

An api for logging market data would be good, this way we don't need to monitor the cache. Or, a more streamlined version of a cache, that can be accessed via a simple api.

Just a few suggestions that I think can probably be accomplished with the $99 annual fee from developers. It would also make it more attractive for 3rd party devs to jump into the game. One of the reasons I haven't released my app yet.


You appear to have missed the bit regarding how their services are going to be provided as-is. To me, I get the impression they are under no obligation to improve or extend the API and other services beyond what they are now, and certainly are under no obligation to ensure the API actually works, ever.

Your $99 buys you absolutely nothing but the right to sell your application. If the API is ever broken or down for extended periods, all YOUR customers have a broken product, and there's not even anything you can do about it.

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:33:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Azazel Mordred
Originally by: Jim Luc
I am interested in deeper API's though. I would love a way to track your current position, and the position of others (if they give you access). You could create route memories, track fleets in battle, track your corporation's movements, even track packages and delivery.

Where's my PI api? An api that can show the coordinates on a planet, the current extractor times, and a way to sync a plan created with the api with Eve - so you have the plan you created in game.

Where's the way to sync and save our overview settings, window locations, and other custom user settings? The current way this can be done is very clunky and difficult.

An api for logging market data would be good, this way we don't need to monitor the cache. Or, a more streamlined version of a cache, that can be accessed via a simple api.

Just a few suggestions that I think can probably be accomplished with the $99 annual fee from developers. It would also make it more attractive for 3rd party devs to jump into the game. One of the reasons I haven't released my app yet.


You appear to have missed the bit regarding how their services are going to be provided as-is. To me, I get the impression they are under no obligation to improve or extend the API and other services beyond what they are now, and certainly are under no obligation to ensure the API actually works, ever.

Your $99 buys you absolutely nothing but the right to sell your application. If the API is ever broken or down for extended periods, all YOUR customers have a broken product, and there's not even anything you can do about it.


Yep, that's true, any service or app built off the existing API's are dependent upon their operation to run. I'm quite certain they will continue iterating on the current set of API's as time allows though.

In my mind though, this is a different and more valid argument than what I'm hearing. Most people are ****ed for the sake of being ****ed. I think as a service, we pay CCP to deliver a quality product, so if the API breaks or isn't fleshed out like we should, we can raise the issue with CCP.

But all this *****ing about a measly $100 is such a tiny thing to be up in arms about...

Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:42:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Jim Luc
Originally by: Azazel Mordred
Originally by: Jim Luc

But all this *****ing about a measly $100 is such a tiny thing to be up in arms about...


Are you offering to pay the license fee for me?

(didn't think so)


 

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