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Fat Cat Oz
Posted - 2011.06.09 16:59:00 - [1]
 

Hello, I'm just curious how well the Navy Issue Scorpion does in level 4's?

I've got it stuck in my mind I need to permatank the thing, but finding out it's a bit tougher to while not spending a stupid amount of isk. The initial draw was the shield resist bonus and only having one less launcher than the CNR. I figured I could shove 4 BCU's in the lows and max the tank out while still maintaining above average resists.

I have never flown any battleship, so any input would be greatly appreciated. Very Happy

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.09 17:06:00 - [2]
 

Mine does Level 4 very well, perhaps even excellently.

I use active shield tank. Pulse the shield booster as needed.

Delucian
Posted - 2011.06.09 17:10:00 - [3]
 

I struggled with keeping it whole, but agree that it is a better active or buffer tank (active probaby best). I switched to a Rattlesnake due to its insane tank.

I think most would say that the CNR is a better ship for this as it does better DPS.

I would actually like to find a really good use for the SNI I have (as it is not selling and about to drop off contract).

I would like to see ideas on what this ship is really best for - Seems like the CNR or Rattler both do things better.

Delucian
Posted - 2011.06.09 18:03:00 - [4]
 

No thoughts on the best use for the SNI?

Is it really viable beyond what the CNR or Rattler can do?

I really prefer this hull, but have not found a great use for it.

Anyone flying it to great effect?

Parsee789
Posted - 2011.06.09 18:14:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Delucian
No thoughts on the best use for the SNI?

Is it really viable beyond what the CNR or Rattler can do?

I really prefer this hull, but have not found a great use for it.

Anyone flying it to great effect?


I guess it could have a use for Wormholes due to the shield resist bonus and having 8 Fantastic mid slots and 7 awesome highs. - quote jack black from octagon.

Tank up the mid slots. Fit 6 cruise launchers and a shield transporter or cap transfer on the extra high. dcu and bcus on the lows.

Fat Cat Oz
Posted - 2011.06.09 18:35:00 - [6]
 

I would use it for Wormholes but I'm a bit of a soloist. Razz So not to viable at this point.

I will be using it for missions, and as a Battleship would target painters be needed for smaller targets? If I can get away with just pulsing the booster and popping scramming ships first then that opens up so many more options.

Any recommended fits? I'll come back and post one I can EFT up real quick, but for now I must run a couple of errands.

Delucian
Posted - 2011.06.09 19:18:00 - [7]
 

Yea, you need a TP for anything smaller than a Battlecruiser and it bloody well cant hit small fast ships/drones worth crap. That is why I switched to the Rattler as I can deploy drones to cover just about any need.

Here was the fit I was running before I mothballed it (Have it for sale in Jita with rigs).

[Scorpion Navy Issue, Dragoon]
Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5

Kastigar Antarius
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.09 20:32:00 - [8]
 

It'll do L4s pretty damn safely, but it won't do them in any hurry. I eventually got fed up with the slow completion times and swapped to other ships though.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.06.09 20:44:00 - [9]
 

Its only good if you like using a more expensive Raven.

Tank is not the problem in lvl 4s, it doing enough damage to make it worth doing it.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.09 21:01:00 - [10]
 

Yea, the key problem with it when compared to the RNI is 1 less launcher and 1 less low slot for a BCU. RNI just pours out more DPS.

More tank on the SNI. I personally like tank, but compared to the flexibility of the Rattler, just did not make the cut.

Will sell you mine.

Sunviking
Posted - 2011.06.09 21:12:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Sunviking on 09/06/2011 22:45:56
Edited by: Sunviking on 09/06/2011 21:15:53
I use the Navy Scorpion as my main mission ship in highsec.

It's tank and midslots mean it can tank any level 4 mission, something the Navy Raven cannot do.

It also has buckets of CPU, higher than the Navy Raven, so you can comfortably have a Tech2 fit, again something the Navy Raven cannot do.

Its midslots mean it has tremendous versatility while not sacrificing tank.

It is one of the top5 level 4 mission ships in the Game, in my opinion.

Edit: I am not saying Navy Scorpion is better than Navy Raven, I just prefer to use the Navy Raven as a Torp Boat, not a Cruise boat. I use Navy Raven for short/medium range missions, Navy Scorpion for long range/travel missions. And I dont like to buy expensive fits.

Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2011.06.09 21:40:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Kneebone on 09/06/2011 21:47:10
Originally by: Sunviking
Edited by: Sunviking on 09/06/2011 21:15:53
I use the Navy Scorpion as my main mission ship in highsec.

It's tank and midslots mean it can tank any level 4 mission, something the Navy Raven cannot do.

It also has buckets of CPU, higher than the Navy Raven, so you can comfortably have a Tech2 fit, again something the Navy Raven cannot do.

Its midslots mean it has tremendous versatility while not sacrificing tank.

It is one of the top5 level 4 mission ships in the Game, in my opinion.


Ignore this person. The CNR(RNI) fully capable of every single L4 mission solo in the game including the Angels Extra bonus room solo and has been for years.

As far as a T1 or T2 build... you are dropping buckets on the hull. Invest in some faction gear to boot. To do anything less with these ships is a waste. You can argue that the faction gear on a standard hull is a better ROI then T1/T2 gear on a faction hull. Case in point my Angels Ex CNR:

[Raven Navy Issue, XL PvE]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Explosion Dampening Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
100MN Afterburner II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I (offlined but there if needed)

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

1k Sustained tank for Angels for 6+ minutes with afterburner off, most of the time just pulsed. Spits out 910+ DPS, more if you use 3x Sentry drones instead of the flight of mediums in the drone bay.

You can apply the same basic setup to an SNI as well, you lose the 7th launcher (About 100DPS I think) but you can add 2 Target Painters and not need the DCU which means you will hit mid size ships and small ones (Use standard/factiona ammo) as well as the faster moving ships for more top end damage per volley.

Capstable is myth for PvE tanking unless you have a crap connection.

Kastigar Antarius
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.09 21:45:00 - [13]
 

While everyone is entitled to their opinion I would certainly not put the SNI in the top 5 mission ships. Top 5 afk mission ships maybe.

The issue really is the ships DPS, you don't need a massive tank if you can destroy all high threat targets quickly (ships like the Nightmare are a good example of this). The destroying targets quickly part is the Scorps biggest problem.

I would say the SNI is a decent intro to faction mission ships, it has a lot of survivability and can ease you into L4s (though its cost may still be prohibitive to players just getting into 4s). Once you've had a taste of what higher damage ships can really do, the SNI will probably get mothballed.

Adian Grey
Posted - 2011.06.09 21:49:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Kastigar Antarius
While everyone is entitled to their opinion I would certainly not put the SNI in the top 5 mission ships. Top 5 afk mission ships maybe.

The issue really is the ships DPS, you don't need a massive tank if you can destroy all high threat targets quickly (ships like the Nightmare are a good example of this). The destroying targets quickly part is the Scorps biggest problem.

I would say the SNI is a decent intro to faction mission ships, it has a lot of survivability and can ease you into L4s (though its cost may still be prohibitive to players just getting into 4s). Once you've had a taste of what higher damage ships can really do, the SNI will probably get mothballed.


True dat. 1 shotting targets 100+km away is sooo nice.

Delucian
Posted - 2011.06.09 21:56:00 - [15]
 

Quote:
True dat. 1 shotting targets 100+km away is sooo nice.


Oh, the range on an SNI with Cruise is fantastic, no doubt. At 100+ you can pretty much sit and beat stuff to a pulp. However, getting to that range is kinda tough in missions where you get ACC gated to 0km.

At that range the Rattler can sit and just take a beating while it drone's stuff to death or the RNI can DPS it's way through the pack. The SNI tries to balance that between the two, and not that well.

For what its worth.

Metal Icarus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.10 17:40:00 - [16]
 

I use the SNI for nullsec exploration sties. The extra mid slots allow for a codebreaker or an analyser while not gimping the tank. Able to take on those sites alone and not have to warp out.

Though the DPS is not as great, the price really makes it a useful ship. Not the best, but definitely useful

llBulldozerll
Posted - 2011.06.10 19:04:00 - [17]
 

My SNI does over 700dps without drones and pops battleships with one more volley than a CNR.

The only real benefit of the Raven is the missile speed when sniping, and the ability to use 3 sentries (which most people don't/won't do.) The tank, targeting range, slot layout, and ship speed, are all in favor of the Scorpion. The tank being a HUGE difference between them.

It's strange to see so many people who claim to have flown both ships say the CNR is superior. And the person who compared the normal Raven to a SNI - thanks, I haven't heard a good joke all week.

Fozzy Dorsai
Posted - 2011.06.10 19:54:00 - [18]
 

I too use my SNI as my main L4 mission ship. I consider the CNR a better ship if actively managed, and the Rattler better if AFK (though with spawns, it usually needs a semi-AFK management style). The CNR is a nice middle. Lots of tank for people who tend to get distracted by RL or a wandering mind during a mission (like me) with plenty of gank to get the mission done in a reasonable amount of time.
With less gank than the CNR it won't be the fastest mission runner if that is your #1 priority. Without heavy/sentry drones it can't do missions AFK like the Rattler. It fits my style of play, it may or may not fit yours.

Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2011.06.10 19:57:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: llBulldozerll
My SNI does over 700dps without drones and pops battleships with one more volley than a CNR.

The only real benefit of the Raven is the missile speed when sniping, and the ability to use 3 sentries (which most people don't/won't do.) The tank, targeting range, slot layout, and ship speed, are all in favor of the Scorpion. The tank being a HUGE difference between them.

It's strange to see so many people who claim to have flown both ships say the CNR is superior. And the person who compared the normal Raven to a SNI - thanks, I haven't heard a good joke all week.



The bottom line of PvE is that the more DPS you do, the faster you kill stuff, the quicker you get missions done, the less tank you need.

The extra Volley damage and ability of the CNR to dispatch medium to large targets makes all the difference in the world. The extra volley or two needed by the SNI to kill a ship has a domino affect of requiring a longer sustained tank, and adding several minutes per mission for completion times.

Assuming both use medium drones over sentry/heavy for the CNR, you can push 800DPS out of a scorpian with about a 4300 Volley. The CNR is about 910DPS with a Volley of 5k+

Assuming you have your drones working on the smaller targets while you go after the bigger ones the SNI's applied DPS is about 640 compared to the 750 of a CNR. MAkes a big difference on the higher ISK targets and popping BC/Cruisers in one or two shots, especially if you use an all in one weapons grouping.

As far as comparing it to a normal Raven? Hate to say it, but the DPS for a normal Raven matches the DPS of an SNI and the Raven can tank exactly like a CNR, just a less of an up front buffer, can even put a NOS in one of the highs if you want!

And I've been happily missioning in CNR's, SNI's, Rattlers, Nightmares, Apocs, Dominix, even a Rohk and Hyperion because I felt like it.

Bottom line... A Scorp NI is not as good as a CNR, but it is still a good mission ship, especially if you feel the need to tank more for whatever reason.

Geirrendour
Posted - 2011.09.06 03:52:00 - [20]
 

Try fitting it with 3 rigor rigs and a target painter. Put 4 BCS in the low slots. It will hit smaller targets pretty hard. BC/Cruiser will be destroyed in two volleys, slower moving frigates/destroyers in one volley.

hiporiko
Posted - 2011.09.06 04:14:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Delucian
I struggled with keeping it whole, but agree that it is a better active or buffer tank (active probaby best). I switched to a Rattlesnake due to its insane tank.

I think most would say that the CNR is a better ship for this as it does better DPS.

I would actually like to find a really good use for the SNI I have (as it is not selling and about to drop off contract).

I would like to see ideas on what this ship is really best for - Seems like the CNR or Rattler both do things better.


With torpedos it's a killer pvp ship.

Delucian
Posted - 2011.09.06 12:37:00 - [22]
 

I tried it with torps, but my torp skills were crap and I couldn't fit T2 launchers. So my experience there was not good. Course that is a poor comparison.

I hear the Golum is much better for that though.

Also, and again this may have been a skills thing, but getting the SNI into range was not always that easy.

I am curious how a torp SNI did against small targets.

Dead3y3
Posted - 2011.09.06 14:19:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Dead3y3 on 06/09/2011 14:20:49
Originally by: hiporiko
With torpedos it's a killer pvp ship.


This...

Stop using it for missions...

Even the regular Raven is overtanked for level 4's with aggro management.


Puss in Boots
Posted - 2011.09.06 16:09:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Puss in Boots on 06/09/2011 16:10:17
Originally by: Delucian
No thoughts on the best use for the SNI?

Is it really viable beyond what the CNR or Rattler can do?

I really prefer this hull, but have not found a great use for it.

Anyone flying it to great effect?


Honestly, I'd argue the Tengu is better. The CNR is decent, but I'd still prefure a tengu. The rattler has fantastic tank but is slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter. In my opinion, for lvl4's speed and efficiency is everything. I don't mission because I enjoy it, I mission because it's a mindless way to make isk.

If you actually enjoy missioning, then fly whatever blows your hair back.

Tony Devo
Posted - 2011.09.06 19:01:00 - [25]
 

It does less damage than a CNR. Thats certain. But you can do things to it to make it close.
The CNR usually has a TP and 3 rigor rigs to hit cruisers with. In a SNI you can run a second TP and only 1 rigor rig, then use the two remaining rig slots for a Loading Bay accelerator and a CCC.

Youll do more damage to frigs and cruisers by a country mile than a CNR, and slightly less to a BS. The loading bay is slightly short of making up for the extra launcher on the CNR by about 5% But you can only use 4 BCS on the SNI instead of 5. Ill admit I dont know how much that 5th one offers after penalties, it may be a great deal, maybe not much at all. But you still have one more mid slot to play with for whatever the mission requires (AB, Web, who the heck knows).

I think that a lot of it comes down to playstyle too. If something is not optimal overall but works better for you and the way you play and your goals, thats what matters more.

TLDR: It works fine on level 4s with the right setup. Definately better than a Raven. Maybe not as good as a CNR with good skills. It certainly cheaper to make viable in 4s than a CNR.

hiporiko
Posted - 2011.09.06 19:06:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Tony Devo
It does less damage than a CNR. Thats certain. But you can do things to it to make it close.
The CNR usually has a TP and 3 rigor rigs to hit cruisers with. In a SNI you can run a second TP and only 1 rigor rig, then use the two remaining rig slots for a Loading Bay accelerator and a CCC.

Youll do more damage to frigs and cruisers by a country mile than a CNR, and slightly less to a BS. The loading bay is slightly short of making up for the extra launcher on the CNR by about 5% But you can only use 4 BCS on the SNI instead of 5. Ill admit I dont know how much that 5th one offers after penalties, it may be a great deal, maybe not much at all. But you still have one more mid slot to play with for whatever the mission requires (AB, Web, who the heck knows).

I think that a lot of it comes down to playstyle too. If something is not optimal overall but works better for you and the way you play and your goals, thats what matters more.

TLDR: It works fine on level 4s with the right setup. Definately better than a Raven. Maybe not as good as a CNR with good skills. It certainly cheaper to make viable in 4s than a CNR.

A 4th bcs gets penalized pretty bad that's why intelligent people only have 3 faction and one tech 2, a 5th is completely useless.

Tony Devo
Posted - 2011.09.06 19:09:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: hiporiko
Originally by: Tony Devo
It does less damage than a CNR. Thats certain. But you can do things to it to make it close.
The CNR usually has a TP and 3 rigor rigs to hit cruisers with. In a SNI you can run a second TP and only 1 rigor rig, then use the two remaining rig slots for a Loading Bay accelerator and a CCC.

Youll do more damage to frigs and cruisers by a country mile than a CNR, and slightly less to a BS. The loading bay is slightly short of making up for the extra launcher on the CNR by about 5% But you can only use 4 BCS on the SNI instead of 5. Ill admit I dont know how much that 5th one offers after penalties, it may be a great deal, maybe not much at all. But you still have one more mid slot to play with for whatever the mission requires (AB, Web, who the heck knows).

I think that a lot of it comes down to playstyle too. If something is not optimal overall but works better for you and the way you play and your goals, thats what matters more.

TLDR: It works fine on level 4s with the right setup. Definately better than a Raven. Maybe not as good as a CNR with good skills. It certainly cheaper to make viable in 4s than a CNR.

A 4th bcs gets penalized pretty bad that's why intelligent people only have 3 faction and one tech 2, a 5th is completely useless.


Well then that answers that.

Dirty Addict
Posted - 2011.09.09 14:05:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Dirty Addict on 09/09/2011 14:06:20
Originally by: hiporiko

A 4th bcs gets penalized pretty bad that's why intelligent people only have 3 faction and one tech 2, a 5th is completely useless.


Uh..
I always use 4 faction, it gives more dps and reduces my cpu for easier fitting..
After spending a 1/1.5bill fitting a ship, why not the extra 100mill for more dps?

Intelligent people know that they can run 500 missions faster with the 4 bcs then sell them, quite possibly for more then thay paid..

Dont give bad advice!!

Puss in Boots
Posted - 2011.09.09 16:42:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Puss in Boots on 09/09/2011 16:44:12
Originally by: Dirty Addict
Edited by: Dirty Addict on 09/09/2011 14:06:20
Originally by: hiporiko

A 4th bcs gets penalized pretty bad that's why intelligent people only have 3 faction and one tech 2, a 5th is completely useless.


Uh..
I always use 4 faction, it gives more dps and reduces my cpu for easier fitting..
After spending a 1/1.5bill fitting a ship, why not the extra 100mill for more dps?

Intelligent people know that they can run 500 missions faster with the 4 bcs then sell them, quite possibly for more then thay paid..

Dont give bad advice!!


You sir, fail at math. Using 3 faction and 1 T2 makes more isk sense and that is what "intelligent people" would use. The difference is 3 to 10 dps depending. But this doesn't' matter, if you are a eleventy billionair or cpu is really that tight or you have liberated the 4th faction bcu from a unsuspecting mission runner you and your friends may have recently violenced.

So, his advice is spot on, and you fail at things that require you to carry the 1.

Dirty Addict
Posted - 2011.09.09 16:54:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Puss in Boots
Edited by: Puss in Boots on 09/09/2011 16:44:12
Originally by: Dirty Addict
Edited by: Dirty Addict on 09/09/2011 14:06:20
Originally by: hiporiko

A 4th bcs gets penalized pretty bad that's why intelligent people only have 3 faction and one tech 2, a 5th is completely useless.


Uh..
I always use 4 faction, it gives more dps and reduces my cpu for easier fitting..
After spending a 1/1.5bill fitting a ship, why not the extra 100mill for more dps?

Intelligent people know that they can run 500 missions faster with the 4 bcs then sell them, quite possibly for more then thay paid..

Dont give bad advice!!


You sir, fail at math. Using 3 faction and 1 T2 makes more isk sense and that is what "intelligent people" would use. The difference is 3 to 10 dps depending. But this doesn't' matter, if you are a eleventy billionair or cpu is really that tight or you have liberated the 4th faction bcu from a unsuspecting mission runner you and your friends may have recently violenced.

So, his advice is spot on, and you fail at things that require you to carry the 1.


What math? I just used random numbers to make a point!
More dps is more dps..
Im guessing you are rather isk poor, i mean really at 100mil there cheap :)

Why dont you go work out the cost and dps gain from useing a 6& damage implant over a 5%..

The point is, when your done with the module you can sell it again, so why not buy 4?

You sir are incredibly ugly btw!


 

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