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Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.09 15:28:00 - [1]
 

I would love to hear what the CSM has to say about the MT issue especially considering the quotes and links I will provide below.

CSM--- Look at all the threads regarding MT. Look at the 52 page threadnaught in response to the Dev Blog on MT. Look at the thread in this forum where almost 80% of the responders don't want MT at all. The Eve community needs you to be our voice.

I qoute CCP Shadow from the PS3 blog on Dust514:

"Hi Vorlord. DUST 514 won’t have a monthly subscription like a number of MMOs. DUST 514 will have virtual goods sales though, that allow you to buy various types of gear used in combat."

"Hey Shoryukenll,

You’ve asked a few things I can’t delve too deeply into, but what I can comment on is what you said about virtual items and real money. DUST 514 will support purchases made through both in-game earned currency and real money currency."

Hmmmmm........ DUST514 is supposed to be tied into OUR Eve universe so now $$$$ for game changing items is one step closer......

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/06/06/introducing-dust-514-a-persistent-shooter-from-ccp/


Qouted from the Beginnings Blog on the Dust514 site:

"DUST 514 will, as EVE Online does, have a dynamic virtual economy and market that offers the tools that will give you a competitive edge, when used skillfully. Players are able to purchase different gear to equip before deploying into battle, using InterStellar Kredits (ISK), the in-game earned currency of the EVE universe, or through real money currency, called Aurum (AUR). This provides players with flexibility and adaptability in how they approach a combat scenario. Certain items are only available through ISK transactions, while others are only available through AUR. These are then traded freely on a player-driven secondary marketplace."

So... CCP is including AUR in DUST which further ties it into Eve and explains why CCP isn't listening to the feedback from the players.

CCP also clearly states that AUR is purchased with RL money........ There should be absolutely ZERO arguments that AUR comes from anything other then RL cash money......

Monacles today. Game altering gear tomorrow!!!!!

http://www.dust514.com/en/news/?article=1980

"RPS: So, if I’m an EVE player, how is my game going to change after DUST is released?

Torfi: Well, you have the ability to be more strategic when you are conquering planets and solar systems, in nulsec. Those are the main touchpoints. Highsec carebears need not worry. The same for lowsec. The main touchpoint upon the launch of DUST, will be in nulsec, will be in sovereignty, will be in inflicting damage and destruction and death upon your enemies, destroying their infrastructure and their means to survive, either by means or scorched earth or by stealing their installations on the surfaces of planets. There will be more going on on the surfaces of planets. We’ve introduced mechanics allowing people to manufacture goods on the planets, but planets will play a more pivotal role in sovereignty mechanics further down the line."

Snippet of the RPS interview on Dust 514

So not only will the dust players spend RL cash to buy an advantage in their game, they will be using that RL cash purchase to buy an advantage in OUR sov warfare.

This is why a lot of us don't want MT of any form in Eve. Our concerns do not matter as CCP has already planned the future and it is RL cash transactions to buy an advantage........


Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.09 15:44:00 - [2]
 

PLEX.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.09 16:05:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Takseen
PLEX.


I agree.. Been a problem since they started it. However, Plex as it stands doesn't allow you to buy game altering items the day you start playing. Some will say that selling Plex lets you buy high SP characters, mother ships, titans and fancy deadspace gear but even if you do that in this game it takes more then a few $$$ to buy an understanding of how they are truely used.

Allowing $$$ to out right buy an advantage in Eve has been something that CCP has stated they don't want for our game (hence keeping MT limited to vanity items). The tie in with Dust 514 and the ability to unwrap the game, throw it in your PS3, get your Visa out, buy upgraded items and use those upgraded items to effect 0.0 Sov mechanics is exactly what is going to happen. The opposite of what CCP has told us.

So, we now have two messages from CCP that are the polar opposites of each other. What is going to happen? Only time will tell. Until then the only thing I can do is share my concerns.

Veshta Yoshida
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.09 17:39:00 - [4]
 

A little premature to start complaining about Dust as we have zero information as to how it will integrate with Eve.

They will never be able to hold space (obviously) so the space ship part is probably still going to be the deciding factor.
I don't see mercs can be anything more than a positive modifier to regular invasions as CCP will have to insulate Eve to some degree as the console FPS is the mayfly of the gaming industry.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.09 18:05:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Veshta Yoshida
A little premature to start complaining about Dust as we have zero information as to how it will integrate with Eve.

They will never be able to hold space (obviously) so the space ship part is probably still going to be the deciding factor.
I don't see mercs can be anything more than a positive modifier to regular invasions as CCP will have to insulate Eve to some degree as the console FPS is the mayfly of the gaming industry.


Not complaining about Dust tbh. It's the idea that CCP will allow advatages to be purchased with $$$ and that it will cross over into Eve.

" We’ve introduced mechanics allowing people to manufacture goods on the planets, but planets will play a more pivotal role in sovereignty mechanics further down the line."----- This is the statement that CCP made that concerns me the most. Every player in 0.0 needs to really start thinking about what this could mean.....

Allowing RL $$$ to purchase an advantage in Dust will cross into our Sov mechanics at some point. How big will the impact be? I don't even think CCP knows yet how they are going to change sov mechanics.........

The one question that I am afraid to hear the answer to is:

How long before CCP allows more then vanity item MT in Eve?


Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.09 18:08:00 - [6]
 

Honestly, this seems like an attempt to balance the Eve players giving their Dust character a patty-cake mission for a gazillion isk prize so they can instantly deck out their Dust character. That had been my biggest concern when I first heard about Dust. We can only wait to see the mechanics, because we're really working only on conjecture right now.

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.06.09 18:32:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Vandrion
Look at the thread in this forum where almost 80% of the responders don't want MT at all.


80% of the responders in that threadnaught make up about 0.02% of all EVE residents, don't pretend that it's the majority of capsuleers.

Besides, I'm afraid this is happening no matter what, so you can either go down with the threadnaught or accept it and move on.


Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.10 04:53:00 - [8]
 

Somehow I doubt anything you can buy with RL $$$ is going to make that much difference in Dust. Not on a grand scale anyway, and given that you don't have a monthly subscription rate, does it really matter?

By the same token, you could say paying for a Sub in EVE is an unfair advantage. Or buying PLEX for that matter, though I fail to see how forking $250 out of your own pocket for a Stock POS and Thanny is an unfair advantage, especially when someone is likely just going to blow up both of them anyway.

I've already said a dozen times, (or half that anyway), that RMT's are selling stuff left, right, and center, which makes any microtransactions effect on EVE completely without ripples. Except for those that roll up against the RMT's, which is the whole point isn't it.

What you're not seeing with your somewhat skewed perspective, is that the microtransaction business model is the product of the RMT's, and not the developers. Developers have simply proven adaptable and shifted their own business model to apply competition against the RMT's who are otherwise ruining their business.

Microtransactions work. People are perfectly willing to spend their money to get ahead in a game, and they are generally not concerned about whether they buy their advantage from the developers or the RMT's. Generally however, they will spend an extra dollar or two, to be on the safe side and within the rules, to keep from getting their accounts banned. This is what the Dev's are relying on, which is why you don't see them competing pricewise with the RMT.

That's the way I see it anyhow, and I appreciate the Dev's proactive approach to maintaining a competative business model that hurts the RMT.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.10 05:59:00 - [9]
 

Quote:
Allowing $$$ to out right buy an advantage in Eve has been something that CCP has stated they don't want for our game

So having a nyx with supercap char after 2 days in eve while others have maybe a rifter after that time is not an advantage? Then you say that they dont know how to use it, how is that different in DUST? If I look for example at BF:BC2, the unlocks give you better stuff, still I have little doubt I can defeat virtually every 2 day old player with all gear if I only use basic gear. Also right now I am pretty sure I know how to use a supercap, but I dont have the isk to get one. How does RMT'ing one with plex (sorry it is just RMT) not give me an advantage above not doing it?


Also it is imo highly unlikely DUST will have must of an influence on eve, CCP claims alot more than they deliver.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.10 11:48:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote:
Allowing $$$ to out right buy an advantage in Eve has been something that CCP has stated they don't want for our game

So having a nyx with supercap char after 2 days in eve while others have maybe a rifter after that time is not an advantage? Then you say that they dont know how to use it, how is that different in DUST? If I look for example at BF:BC2, the unlocks give you better stuff, still I have little doubt I can defeat virtually every 2 day old player with all gear if I only use basic gear. Also right now I am pretty sure I know how to use a supercap, but I dont have the isk to get one. How does RMT'ing one with plex (sorry it is just RMT) not give me an advantage above not doing it?


Also it is imo highly unlikely DUST will have must of an influence on eve, CCP claims alot more than they deliver.



So the 2 day old new to eve player spends $720 on a Nyx (based on current plex/ RL gtc pricing), has the understanding to get into an alliance, hstarts a second acct to get fuel to the Nyx, buys more GTC to convert to plex to buy the fuel and has the understanding not to lose a Nyx. I doubt that.

That is alot of RL cash for just one Nyx and the support for it even if you have the understanding to use it properly. I somehow don't think CCP is going to have items in the money store for Dusties that cost over $700......

CCP has repeatedly stated that Dust is going to have a significant impact to nullsec Eve. Not low sec... Not hi-sec. Those players are going to impact how our sov mechanics work. That is a big deal.

The larger issue is that I feel CCP is slipping RL money store purchases for advantages in game into Eve. They are warming everyone up with vanity MT only and within a few months of Dust rolling out will include it in our game.

I can see the dev blog now--- Dust 514 uses cash for item MT and it is part of Eve. To be consistent we are adding items to the MT store such as modules and ships that you can only purchase there with AUR............

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.10 11:59:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: LordElfa
Originally by: Vandrion
Look at the thread in this forum where almost 80% of the responders don't want MT at all.


80% of the responders in that threadnaught make up about 0.02% of all EVE residents, don't pretend that it's the majority of capsuleers.

Besides, I'm afraid this is happening no matter what, so you can either go down with the threadnaught or accept it and move on.


This is argument has been used by forum warriors/trolls who happen to hold a minority opinion since the advent of the interwebs.

Of course, it is utter bull****.

Yes, there is no guarantee this forum thread represents an entirely accurate statistical summary of the playerbase's preference.
No, that doesn't mean every other EVE player who did not post in the thread agrees with you, effing moron. That's how statistics work. You take a sample minority and poll their opinion, innit? This is what this forum represents. 80% of this sample group agrees MTs are detrimental to the game.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.10 13:06:00 - [12]
 

[quote[So the 2 day old new to eve player spends $720 on a Nyx (based on current plex/ RL gtc pricing), has the understanding to get into an alliance, hstarts a second acct to get fuel to the Nyx, buys more GTC to convert to plex to buy the fuel and has the understanding not to lose a Nyx. I doubt that.

He doesnt need the understanding not to lose a nyx, he simply has a huge advantage compared to a 2 day old noob in a rifter. Of lets assume he also uses a rifter, fitted with officer items. He has a much stronger ship than the 2 day old noob that doesnt use plexes.
And how about the other example, me. I am pretty sure I know how to fly a supercap, am quite far skill wise, yet I dont have one. If i buy one with plex i do have one, and a nyx really is better than my thanatos.

Quote:
That is alot of RL cash for just one Nyx and the support for it even if you have the understanding to use it properly. I somehow don't think CCP is going to have items in the money store for Dusties that cost over $700......

So that new dusty buys a tank in the store, and goes straight forward to the enemy, and dies horribly. How is that different than what we already have in eve and plexes?

Quote:
CCP has repeatedly stated that Dust is going to have a significant impact to nullsec Eve. Not low sec... Not hi-sec. Those players are going to impact how our sov mechanics work. That is a big deal.

CCP also stated they would iterate on FW, that PI gave you options to really govern a planet, t3 ships would have 5 subsystems of each, they would add more ihub upgrades, storefronts, giving smaller groups a chance in 0.0, etc. In other words, CCP states alot more than they deliver.




Quote:
I can see the dev blog now--- Dust 514 uses cash for item MT and it is part of Eve. To be consistent we are adding items to the MT store such as modules and ships that you can only purchase there with AUR............

After which it can be sold on the market/contracts again. Why again would I care if people get an advantage by purchasing stuff with AUR or PLEX?

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.10 15:34:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
[quote[So the 2 day old new to eve player spends $720 on a Nyx (based on current plex/ RL gtc pricing), has the understanding to get into an alliance, hstarts a second acct to get fuel to the Nyx, buys more GTC to convert to plex to buy the fuel and has the understanding not to lose a Nyx. I doubt that.

He doesnt need the understanding not to lose a nyx, he simply has a huge advantage compared to a 2 day old noob in a rifter. Of lets assume he also uses a rifter, fitted with officer items. He has a much stronger ship than the 2 day old noob that doesnt use plexes.
And how about the other example, me. I am pretty sure I know how to fly a supercap, am quite far skill wise, yet I dont have one. If i buy one with plex i do have one, and a nyx really is better than my thanatos.

Quote:
That is alot of RL cash for just one Nyx and the support for it even if you have the understanding to use it properly. I somehow don't think CCP is going to have items in the money store for Dusties that cost over $700......

So that new dusty buys a tank in the store, and goes straight forward to the enemy, and dies horribly. How is that different than what we already have in eve and plexes?

Quote:
CCP has repeatedly stated that Dust is going to have a significant impact to nullsec Eve. Not low sec... Not hi-sec. Those players are going to impact how our sov mechanics work. That is a big deal.

CCP also stated they would iterate on FW, that PI gave you options to really govern a planet, t3 ships would have 5 subsystems of each, they would add more ihub upgrades, storefronts, giving smaller groups a chance in 0.0, etc. In other words, CCP states alot more than they deliver.




Quote:
I can see the dev blog now--- Dust 514 uses cash for item MT and it is part of Eve. To be consistent we are adding items to the MT store such as modules and ships that you can only purchase there with AUR............

After which it can be sold on the market/contracts again. Why again would I care if people get an advantage by purchasing stuff with AUR or PLEX?


I personnally didn't agree with adding Plex in game. I would be happy to see it disappear altogether however it is firmly a part of the economy of Eve now.

To address your last point- I honestly don't care how much you do or don't care about buying advantages in game and the impact it will have.

The first line in this thread was directing it to the CSM. There are a huge amount of threads currently out with player feedback regarding MT in Eve. Most of the posts I have read have been clearly against the idea. I want to see what the CSM did,is doing or are going to do to address what is a large issue for a lot of the player base.

El 1974
Posted - 2011.06.10 18:21:00 - [14]
 

I wouldn't be so bold as a player to tell CCP how they should make their money. Obviously CCP decided they would be able to make more money launching Dust as a free download with MT. CCP has stated that they will keep markets in Eve and Dust seperated. It seems that direct transactions however will be possible. I doubt that items bought with aurum will have a major effect in Eve or Dust. Dust might have some effect on sov warfare. But lets face it: it's the big fleet battles that decide who's in control. Alliances often don't even bother keeping sovereingty in the systems they control. I don't think they can make it much worse than it is now, so I'll just wait and see what happens.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.11 01:16:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Mars Theran on 11/06/2011 01:37:01

Well, the idea is that you make the game F2P to encourage people to play it, even when they don't feel like spending the cash on it. This isn't part of the RMT business model I mentioned earlier of course, but a Developer adjustment to that model with an intended purpose. It gets players to play, and DUST is such a game, that it is going to need a very large community to make it an effective addition to the EVE Universe.

Ideally, Dust has 50-100% more players than EVE online.

Think of it this way: CCP has advertised EVE as having more than 50K unique planetary bodies, (I don't specifically recall whether it included moons or not), which theoretically can be inhabited and controlled to one degree or another. One sec.. (yeah, I know you're not really waitingSmile)

..http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planet. Confirmed as 67253 unique planets. 10 of those are shattered, which I've never seen before. I presume they're not really usable, though I'd love to make a Pirate base out of one of them. Cool

..anyway, assuming 20% of those planets are expected to be in a state of conflict at any given time, (I'm just going to assume we're looking at 32 man teams here, which means 64 players, though it's likely more), that means upwards of 860K players can be expected to be online fighting those battles. Impossible given current conditions, but hopefully what CCP is trying to achieve at some point.

Would be awesome, you gotta admit. Very Happy

Laughing

Right.. I was going to mention this too; from about halfway through this page, in the following section:

Quote:
So... what is this DUST 514 thing anyways?

Imagine this:

You turn on your PS3, and launch DUST 514. You choose the character you created before, and log onto our servers. You..


I find that a little disheartening and even somewhat distrubing. Dust is an FPS, and I don't think it should mirror EVE that closely. FPS players aren't interested in faction fitting their armor; they just want to play the game and shoot things. Armor Blueprints? Deploying into battle 'somewhere' from your quarters? wth is up with that?

As for deploying, I hope you're going to put a bit of dynamic cinematics in their, along with a trainride of some sort where the team gets to debrief, and prepare for battle, then get rather dramatically dropped in to planetside. Maybe I'm being picky, but it sounds as if you stand in your mercenary quarters, push a button, and suddenly you're on a battlefield 500 LY away, with all your stuff. Where do you get time to manufacture from Blueprints here, or research them, and why would you want to. Let EVE players do that crap, and just give me the guns and gear. YARRRR!!

edit: sorta kidding of course, but really FPS players aren't going to be interested in doing too much R&D or industry. I know some of that stuff is already laid down and possibly complete, but let's face it, it's just not going to fly with the majority of FPS players. Dust will draw BF, MW, CoD players no doubt, but those guys don't like too much complication which is why they don't play games like EVE.

Here's what they do play: Monopoly, Terraria, Minecraft, BFBC2, MW, L4D2, TF2, Starcraft II, Fallout, and other games like that. The thing about these games, is that they are simple. It's either one genre or another, but not multiple genres in one game.

They think, "I feel like FPS right now," then they pop in their L4D2 disc and go blast things to pieces, or they think, "Hey, I'm feeling kinda lazy and sorta Mellow; Minecraft would be really cool right now," and then they play Minecraft. Most FPS players, (a little generalized perhaps), are working folk who just want to take out their frustrations in a no contest environment. They're not interested in having to Massively Multitask Online, which is why most of them don't play true MMO's.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.11 01:50:00 - [16]
 

A lot of that is base speculation, but if any Dev's are reading this, I suggest you get a poll on what FPS players are interested in and adjust to suit; even if only a little. Personal opinion from someone who used to love RPG's and EVE: I don't want to get to complicated in Dust; I just want to shoot stuff and make people hurt badly before taking their stuff.

I don't mean griefing either. I want associated costs and grind to be minimal, so I can enjoy the FPS part of the game, and not get jammed up with industrial logistics. Warfare, strategy, tactics, and associated logistics should be my only concerns. If I toss a Blueprint, (No research or skill required), in the oven on the way to the next job, so it pop's out my favorite dropship, tank, or whatever when we arrive and are ready to deploy that's fine.

Corp handles materials cost; no mining required. I get a pay stub, share of operations or whatever, and the ship makes my gear for me. Automated, all I do is make the decision based on the scenario I'm going in to. Simple. If I run a Corp here and there, or just here, or just there, then maybe I have a bit more work to do, but everything is fair. Maybe I can get rich, and maybe it doesn't matter.

What matters to me, is what happens on the ground when I'm in combat and how I deal with it, what tools I have to deal with it, and being capable of doing it without any of those. When all I have left is a knife, I want to be able to use it. End of story. Survival of the fittest, not the richest.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.11 14:06:00 - [17]
 

"Think of it this way: CCP has advertised EVE as having more than 50K unique planetary bodies, (I don't specifically recall whether it included moons or not), which theoretically can be inhabited and controlled to one degree or another. One sec.. (yeah, I know you're not really waiting)

..http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planet. Confirmed as 67253 unique planets. 10 of those are shattered, which I've never seen before. I presume they're not really usable, though I'd love to make a Pirate base out of one of them.

..anyway, assuming 20% of those planets are expected to be in a state of conflict at any given time, (I'm just going to assume we're looking at 32 man teams here, which means 64 players, though it's likely more), that means upwards of 860K players can be expected to be online fighting those battles. Impossible given current conditions, but hopefully what CCP is trying to achieve at some point. "
Qoute from Mars in post 15. The qoute function was broke when I replied.....


I would ask you to read the qoute in my first post from the RPS interview. Hi sec and Low sec planets aren't going to be a source of conflict for Dust players. It will only impact 0.0 space.

Once again, I stress the fact that MT item purchases with RL cash will be used by Dust players (fine by me) and it will have an impact on our 0.0 sov mechanics (not fine).

It is unacceptable from point of view for RL cash transactions from another game to impact the way we play Eve.....Don't forget---CCP has said they don't want a money store for Eve however allowing Dust to use theirs to impact our game is one step closer and in reality includes RL MT in our game the minute Dust goes live...


Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.11 17:27:00 - [18]
 

Sorry, I can't find exact quotes right now, but all I can say is you're jumping at space baloons. CCP has released in interviews and the like that Dust has High, Low, and Null Security just like EVE, and players will be able to choose between them.

Highsec Planetary combat will be NPC based of course, but it will still be there. Lowsec and Null take things further, and Null allows the players to build their own planetary infrastructure. Null is also the only one that involves Alliance impacting changes based on this interaction. I'm not sure about Planetary infrastructure availability in Lowsec for Dust players.

Actually, I'm not certain about anything. We can probably expect changes to various things along the way, which will make what we think we know now kinda pointless.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.11 19:20:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran
Sorry, I can't find exact quotes right now, but all I can say is you're jumping at space baloons. CCP has released in interviews and the like that Dust has High, Low, and Null Security just like EVE, and players will be able to choose between them.

Highsec Planetary combat will be NPC based of course, but it will still be there. Lowsec and Null take things further, and Null allows the players to build their own planetary infrastructure. Null is also the only one that involves Alliance impacting changes based on this interaction. I'm not sure about Planetary infrastructure availability in Lowsec for Dust players.

Actually, I'm not certain about anything. We can probably expect changes to various things along the way, which will make what we think we know now kinda pointless.



RPS: So, if I’m an EVE player, how is my game going to change after DUST is released?

Torfi: Well, you have the ability to be more strategic when you are conquering planets and solar systems, in nulsec. Those are the main touchpoints. Highsec carebears need not worry. The same for lowsec. The main touchpoint upon the launch of DUST, will be in nulsec, will be in sovereignty, will be in inflicting damage and destruction and death upon your enemies, destroying their infrastructure and their means to survive, either by means or scorched earth or by stealing their installations on the surfaces of planets. There will be more going on on the surfaces of planets. We’ve introduced mechanics allowing people to manufacture goods on the planets, but planets will play a more pivotal role in sovereignty mechanics further down the line."

Snippet of the RPS interview on Dust 514

Copied from my first post... There is your quote........ Highlighted the important bit for you....



Just announced on the AT9 stream--- Ishukone Scorp.......With Aur purchase ofcourse.....


Closer and closer to the edge CCP.......

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.11 20:50:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Vandrion

Just announced on the AT9 stream--- Ishukone Scorp.......With Aur purchase ofcourse.....


Closer and closer to the edge CCP.......


Wait, is that just a different paintjob for the same ship (like the corp-logos they mentioned) or can you actually purchase an entire ship from Aurum, possibly with other attributes than a normal Scorpion?

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.11 21:03:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Vandrion

Just announced on the AT9 stream--- Ishukone Scorp.......With Aur purchase ofcourse.....


Closer and closer to the edge CCP.......


Wait, is that just a different paintjob for the same ship (like the corp-logos they mentioned) or can you actually purchase an entire ship from Aurum, possibly with other attributes than a normal Scorpion?


It is just a different paint job. For now..... This is just one more step closer to more then just vanity items though.

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.11 21:21:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Vandrion

Just announced on the AT9 stream--- Ishukone Scorp.......With Aur purchase ofcourse.....


Closer and closer to the edge CCP.......


Wait, is that just a different paintjob for the same ship (like the corp-logos they mentioned) or can you actually purchase an entire ship from Aurum, possibly with other attributes than a normal Scorpion?


It is just a different paint job. For now..... This is just one more step closer to more then just vanity items though.

Oh, yeah. I was just wondering whether they were there already. CCP have lost so much credit with me, that I wouldn't even have been surprised anymore.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.11 21:36:00 - [23]
 

It's a custom skin, and you know what, if they make special bonus ships and start selling old AT win ships for AUR, I'll say good job, Kick the RMT in the nuts. That is the only reason to be bothered by this MT thing you know, if you happen to be a RMT. Are you?

What you're doing in this thread is propaganda.

Quote:
We have high security, low security, and nulsec, where anything goes. And that’s where we’re pretty much hands off. When you’re in highsec we have NPC generated battles, so you’ll always be able to find a battle, you’re able to grind and get money, but without being exposed to the depth building an infrastructure on the surface of planets, things like that. But then as you play through into the lower levels of security it starts to be about: okay, I’ve got the hang of the game, I’ve got a group of friends, we’ve formed a corporation, and we’ve got backing from some EVE members for the corporation, so we’re going to hire a war barge, we’re going to load it up with supplies, and we’re going to try to attack this location. We’re going to get our first foothold on a planet.


..and I believe that is what I was looking for; the part you conveniently avoided.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/08/interview-ccp-on-dust-514-and-eve/

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.11 21:41:00 - [24]
 

And just to be clear, some players have specifically asked for custom skins for their ship on these forums here. In this exact forum where you are not treating it as it should be. This is not a proposal thread directed at CCP or the CSM, which is all that is suppoosed to be posted here, so sod off

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.11 22:00:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran
And just to be clear, some players have specifically asked for custom skins for their ship on these forums here. In this exact forum where you are not treating it as it should be. This is not a proposal thread directed at CCP or the CSM, which is all that is suppoosed to be posted here, so sod off


Once again you fail at reading......

What is the very first line of this post????? Let me copy it in for you.. I will make it bold so you don't miss it this time:

I would love to hear what the CSM has to say about the MT issue especially considering the quotes and links I will provide below.

Seems to be clearly addressed to the CSM and asking for feedback regarding this issue.

Read this again too--- Its the description of the Assembly hall section of the forums:

Assembly Hall
A platform for players to bring topics to the attention of the Council of Stellar Management.


To address the rest of your post take a peak at over 100 pages of player feedback on the MT issue as a whole (once again scroll up and READ). Those 100 pages are just in 2 threads......


And as far as sodding off--- No thank you. I will pass. U mad?


Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.11 22:07:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran
It's a custom skin, and you know what, if they make special bonus ships and start selling old AT win ships for AUR, I'll say good job, Kick the RMT in the nuts. That is the only reason to be bothered by this MT thing you know, if you happen to be a RMT. Are you?

What you're doing in this thread is propaganda.

Quote:
We have high security, low security, and nulsec, where anything goes. And that’s where we’re pretty much hands off. When you’re in highsec we have NPC generated battles, so you’ll always be able to find a battle, you’re able to grind and get money, but without being exposed to the depth building an infrastructure on the surface of planets, things like that. But then as you play through into the lower levels of security it starts to be about: okay, I’ve got the hang of the game, I’ve got a group of friends, we’ve formed a corporation, and we’ve got backing from some EVE members for the corporation, so we’re going to hire a war barge, we’re going to load it up with supplies, and we’re going to try to attack this location. We’re going to get our first foothold on a planet.


..and I believe that is what I was looking for; the part you conveniently avoided.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/08/interview-ccp-on-dust-514-and-eve/


Unfortunantly you have to READ once again (scroll back up to the original post). Dust will not have an impact on EVE hi and low sec...... Dust will have its own hi and low where they can pew pew each other at will(so the game doesn't die if they don't get 0.0 contracts and such). I am discussing the tie in with Eve itself and asking for the CSM to give the community some feedback on the MT issue in EVE and how the RL MT in Dust is going to impact the sov mechanics in EVE.

There.... I made it simple for you this time

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.11 22:29:00 - [27]
 

Tired of this canard. Some say "What's wrong with MT, you can buy a PLEX and buy a character, and implants and stuff with the ISK, so why not some MT thing?"

The purchased character, the implants and stuff were earned. Someone spent the time and the effort in the game to collect those items, train that character, make that ISK etc. In-game time and effort, labor, was expended by someone in the past. They took all the risks everyone else took, played the game, flipped our cans, we flipped theirs, we shot them and they shot us.

But with this MT stuff, we're going to find a blurry line, they're already seeming to cross it in Dust and teasing to cross in Eve. So far the indications are that Dust players will use Aurum to purchase a BPO or some kind of "blueprint". They can then make and sell the items.

Is that going to be cool with everyone in Eve when you can buy the T2 shuttle that has 50m3 of cargo, but the only source of the BPO was Aurum? I mean you can still buy the shuttle with ISK, you can buy the BPO with ISK if someone resells it - so that's ok huh?

No, it's not ok. New functionality is introduced via a means that is has a source of risk, labor, time and effort that is outside the environment. CCP has already done this before with some of the boxed sets. The teaser is the Ishukone Scorp, then it'll be the Theology Council Maller, the Quafe Extra Scrumptious that gives +5% on selling your soul.

I'm sure we've all heard the old story about putting a frog in water and turning up the heat. Enjoy the simmer.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.11 23:07:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Mars Theran on 11/06/2011 23:08:23
It doesn't sound like you are discussing the tie-in with EVE at all, but rather flaming over speculation on your part about the future of microtransactions. That is what you are doing, and I don't fail at reading. Your entire post and every response, (except your last), reflects this.

Why would CSM have an opinion on fictitious speculation of what CCP intendeds for the game. Seems to me they don't know anything about it, and couldn't possibly hold an opinion on something that doesn't exist, hasn't been discussed, and is yet to even be truly considered at this time.

When it comes down to it, CCP will make a decesion on that which reflects on how the playerbase seems to feel about it, and how they feel about it. Before they even make a point of evaluating our opinion, they first have to decide on their own, and how they see it negatively or positively impacting the game.

Just an FYI, despite Nullsec being the only major crossover to EVE, it has been discussed and released that EVE and Dust players will share the same chat channels and communications, and the same server. The EVE shard will have the number of players increase with every addition of a new player to Dust. The only exception is that Dust players will fight their battles on different servers around the world, to reduce lag and ping problems which would occur during those battles if they existed on the same server.

Your thread title is irrelevent to me. It's just there for show, so you can flame these forums and get upvotes. What you're doing is obvious.

edit: ..and yes, I am going to see about making a point of destroying triple A assets in Null after this, when I get my hands on Dust.Twisted Evil

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.11 23:29:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Tired of this canard. Some say "What's wrong with MT, you can buy a PLEX and buy a character, and implants and stuff with the ISK, so why not some MT thing?"

The purchased character, the implants and stuff were earned. Someone spent the time and the effort in the game to collect those items, train that character, make that ISK etc. In-game time and effort, labor, was expended by someone in the past. They took all the risks everyone else took, played the game, flipped our cans, we flipped theirs, we shot them and they shot us.

But with this MT stuff, we're going to find a blurry line, they're already seeming to cross it in Dust and teasing to cross in Eve. So far the indications are that Dust players will use Aurum to purchase a BPO or some kind of "blueprint". They can then make and sell the items.

Is that going to be cool with everyone in Eve when you can buy the T2 shuttle that has 50m3 of cargo, but the only source of the BPO was Aurum? I mean you can still buy the shuttle with ISK, you can buy the BPO with ISK if someone resells it - so that's ok huh?

No, it's not ok. New functionality is introduced via a means that is has a source of risk, labor, time and effort that is outside the environment. CCP has already done this before with some of the boxed sets. The teaser is the Ishukone Scorp, then it'll be the Theology Council Maller, the Quafe Extra Scrumptious that gives +5% on selling your soul.

I'm sure we've all heard the old story about putting a frog in water and turning up the heat. Enjoy the simmer.


Sounds like what you're really saying is, "It's okay if people buy PLEX with RL $$$ and use it to buy in game items, because then the ISK goes to me, but MT is RL $$$ going to CCP and I don't get my piece of the cake. That's just wrong."

Okay, well at least that makes a bit odf sense, and it's the strongest and most valid argument I've seen to date. Heck, even the RMT's kick back to the ingame economy once in awhile.

Here's my counter argument though, and as far as I'm concerned it outweighs anything you could possibly say: MT are a direct frontal assault on RMT's. The PLEX froms the basis of this assualt, and allows players of any age to exchange RL $$$ for ISK, then use it to purchase nearly anything in the game. Unfortunately, that is not enough as the PLEX-to-ISK conversion is highly susceptible to fluctuating market prices and does not account for availability of commodities or ease of access to them. RMT's will deliver everything you want, to any safe system of your choice in game.

Still not a good enough reason to buy imo, but they make a lot of RL $$$ doing this. In fact, even I was a little shocked to know something easily achieved could net me $75 real cash if I anonymously sold it on ebay. Something I could achieve in game, with no more investment than selling a couple PLEX and having ISK to spare. Now I know why RMT deal in PLEX.

I never would of course, even now that I hold less value in my sub due to meta gaming bs, griefing, and a generally popshod economy. But the point still stands. It's easy to RMT, and it has very obvious real rewards, for which the only counter is to offer stiff competition that has no repercussions from GM's, Dev's, or CC companies. We're talking about relatively safe, easy transfer with the game company, as opposed to potential identification theft, CC fraud, and hacking of game accounts.

Players control the value of PLEX of course, which automatically places them in the purvey of RMT yet again. Not only can they use them to make money in the short term, but they can invest in them: buy and resell to players for profit in game, which they can use to make even more RL $$$.

Good idea, but not working out so well in the wash I think. Maybe get rid of PLEX entirely, and switch to direct purchases of ships, items, and ISK. Remove it from player domain entirely, and provide direct competition for RMT.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.11 23:30:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran
Edited by: Mars Theran on 11/06/2011 23:08:23
It doesn't sound like you are discussing the tie-in with EVE at all, but rather flaming over speculation on your part about the future of microtransactions. That is what you are doing, and I don't fail at reading. Your entire post and every response, (except your last), reflects this.

Why would CSM have an opinion on fictitious speculation of what CCP intendeds for the game. Seems to me they don't know anything about it, and couldn't possibly hold an opinion on something that doesn't exist, hasn't been discussed, and is yet to even be truly considered at this time.

When it comes down to it, CCP will make a decesion on that which reflects on how the playerbase seems to feel about it, and how they feel about it. Before they even make a point of evaluating our opinion, they first have to decide on their own, and how they see it negatively or positively impacting the game.

Just an FYI, despite Nullsec being the only major crossover to EVE, it has been discussed and released that EVE and Dust players will share the same chat channels and communications, and the same server. The EVE shard will have the number of players increase with every addition of a new player to Dust. The only exception is that Dust players will fight their battles on different servers around the world, to reduce lag and ping problems which would occur during those battles if they existed on the same server.

Your thread title is irrelevent to me. It's just there for show, so you can flame these forums and get upvotes. What you're doing is obvious.

edit: ..and yes, I am going to see about making a point of destroying triple A assets in Null after this, when I get my hands on Dust.Twisted Evil


Why would the CSM have an opinion??? It is the point of the CSM to have an OPINION and to address issues raised by the player base.

CCP has asked the CSM their opinion on MT and additions to it and shown the CSM what they are planning for th MT system as stated during the AT9 coverage. It is very valid to ask what exactly the stance of the CSM has been on this issue.

The point of the CSM is to be the filter/middle men between CCP and the player base.

Oh you are absolutely correct in stating that my thread title is there to get attention. The more people that see this will realize the impact that MT will have on Eve. The more times this post gets bumped the better the chance that the CSM will see it and respond to the questions asked.













based on your edit--- Yes u Mad! Wink


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