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blankseplocked Banning bots is the worst possible answer. It's Science!
 
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Fredfredbug4
Posted - 2011.06.09 20:15:00 - [31]
 

Just make CONCORD less efficient. Say in the time someone can suicide gank one hulk, they should now be able to suicide gank two.

Hori To
Masuat'aa Matari
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:09:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Alter the EULA so that CCP has legal basis to sue you if they find you botting or RMTing.


how would that work? The logs show nothing.

Fiddles McGiggles
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:56:00 - [33]
 

In no way have I tried to justify botting, or said it isn't worth fighting against. Fighting it by banning botters accounts isn't stopping the person(s) need/desire/motivation to do such behavior. It only makes more creative bots.

As I have stated there has been numerous ways suggested on how to change game mechanics to make botting harder, if not impossible. Unfortunately they all end up in the features forum. If you make an activity stupidly repetitious (mining) it's going to be very easy to make a bot perform that activity. Make it stupidly repetitious and have some kind of reward (selling ore) and you have given a significant portion of the gaming population an incentive to bot. I won't try to reinvent the wheel but I have read enough well thought out ideas for making mining bot proof. Same for mission running. The more interactive an activity is the harder it is to automate. It's a simple formula. If its so dumb a caveman can do it....well, we get bots doing it.

Why me suggesting banning bots isn't working to fight the bot problem leads anybody to believe I'm for bots and I'm a botter myself is beyond me.

Solstice Project
Posted - 2011.06.09 23:14:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Solstice Project on 09/06/2011 23:15:50
So... i've read this thread through while eating my sandwich.
Usually, when i eat something, i can't be bothered about anything at all ...
... but the level of stupidity of some of you is REALLY, REALLY beyond any reasonable point.

Anyway ... OP has a point ! ... altough he failed to communicate it ...
... and most people really just read what they want to read anyway.

So ... points are ...

Banning botters makes bot-writers aware that CCP trys to kill them off,
which leads them to write better code so they don't get caught that easily.

It's an arms race, as many have realised already.
Most of you probably not, as it seems.

That's a no-brainer. Really.

I pretty much believe that's what the OP was talking about,
and it's not really hard to understand that point.

Of course, NOT banning them doesn't lead to anything,
but banning them - of course - tells bot-writers that they have to figure out
smarter ways to avoid that their bots get caught.

What OP failed to do (altough totally unnecessary because it's way beyond him anyways) is
to provide a solution to the problem.

Please ... people, if you're really that stupid,
just don't post anything. He didn't mean to defend any botting ...
(altough the one sentence about allowing botting really didn't do him any good)
... he just brought up a pretty valid point.

"Haters gonna hate" fits to many of you ... and that's really sad, actually.

We all agree that bots are bad,
but being paranoid about that is just stupid.

TL;DR:

Guy screams: She's a witch !!!
Masses scream: HE'S TRUE !! SHE'S A WITCH !!! BURN HER !!!


Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.10 04:41:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles
Incorporate botting into the game somehow.


For those technically minded people for whom botting is the challenge in gaming then this is clearly the best solution.

Mining shouldn't be boring, it should require a logistical design by an intelligent human with an in-game market in bot scripts/parts/tools.


I still remember my first day seeing mining in Eve.... "WTF... This is the future, why am I grinding rocks, this a kids game like Runescape?"



MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.06.10 07:04:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 10/06/2011 07:09:15
Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles
In no way have I tried to justify botting, or said it isn't worth fighting against. Fighting it by banning botters accounts isn't stopping the person(s) need/desire/motivation to do such behavior. It only makes more creative bots.

You're shortsighted. They're not only banning botters to gedt rid of them. They're doing it to minimize damage to the game economy. It'd be f*ed if they just let bots run rampant.

Of course they could get rid of bots much more efficiently by simply designing the game in a way that prevents bot usage... you know... interesting gameplay... but that's a different topic, sort of.

Quote:
Why me suggesting banning bots isn't working to fight the bot problem leads anybody to believe I'm for bots and I'm a botter myself is beyond me.

Moderates are pretty much always part of the problem, even if unintentionally. It's kind of like with religion. The moderates create a breeding ground for fundamentals. They might not accept the fact that they do, but that doesn't change the facts. Even if you don't endorse bots and don't use one, your argumentation is supportive. That makes you part of the problem, hence the accusations.

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.06.10 07:18:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: CyberGh0st on 10/06/2011 07:27:36

Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles
If you start thinking of botting as a plague, disease, or infestation you'll understand that killing off the weakest botters (the ones that get caught) solves nothing. Why? Plagues, diseases and infestations all have some kind of "cure." Mainly: Pesticides and antibiotics. But do pesticides and antibiotics really fix the problem? In the short term of course they do. And in a few rare cases they have altogether destroyed a population of bacteria or pest. But in the long run there is a never ending battle to come up with stronger "cures". What pesticides and antibiotics do is kill of the weakest part of a population, maybe 95-99% of the weakest members of a given population. What is left is 1-5% of the strongest most resistant strain of that population. This is (un)natural selection. When that strain reproduces you have an entire population immune to the original cure. This begins the cycle going on today with antibiotics/disease and pesticides/pests.

Botting is a serious plague for all MMOs . And the typical solution is the ban hammer. Figure out how a bot works, or who is botting and ban a massive amount of them. Does this get rid of the persons behind the computer willing and able to use a macro to gain an unfair advantage over players that actually play? Those people will always exist. So banning that person only causes them to come up with more innovative ways to bot. And we see a cycle going on today with bans/botters. Itís the same in every MMO.

Banning wonít ever work to solve the problem. Itís only a quick fix until the next bot is developed. To solve a problem with out drastically changing the structure of an MMO you need to be equally innovative. Make an environment that doesnít foster botting. Incorporate botting into the game somehow. Thereís a lot of innovative ideas in these forums alone.

Banning botters just makes better botters. Stop doing it.


You should start reading up on what CCP sreegs has been up too lately.

They are definatly aware of the issue, and certain mind numbing tasks should be made less mind numbing, and semi automated, preferably with built-in automation tools, making it interesting for the players.
On the other hand, there should also be a strong anti bot policy and enforcement, that is what CCP Sreegs is focussing on atm. Altho he promised a new dev blog and we are still waiting on that one ...

I think their current system of 2 temp bans and then permanent ban is a good solution. It will keep away many of the more "casual" botters. After that CCP can go focussing on the more "hardcore" botters.

Meanwhile PLEX are a serious alternative for illegal RMT, which competes with the illegal RMT sites but at the same time gives positive income to EVE and keeps away even more hackers and cheaters.

I think the main problem has been that CCP have been neglecting this issue for too long. But now with CCP Sreegs and his team, the future looks brighter.

Finally I think the OP title is not very well chosen, it implies that botters and cheaters should not be banned at all.

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.10 10:31:00 - [38]
 

I'd have read this, but it's so obviously a troll, so I won't bother.

0/10

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.06.10 11:29:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Alter the EULA so that CCP has legal basis to sue you if they find you botting or RMTing.


Yeah this.

Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries
Posted - 2011.06.10 11:33:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Rek Seven on 10/06/2011 11:35:59
Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles
If you start thinking of botting as a plague, disease, or infestation you'll understand that killing off the weakest botters (the ones that get caught) solves nothing. Why? Plagues, diseases and infestations all have some kind of "cure." Mainly: Pesticides and antibiotics. But do pesticides and antibiotics really fix the problem? In the short term of course they do. And in a few rare cases they have altogether destroyed a population of bacteria or pest. But in the long run there is a never ending battle to come up with stronger "cures". What pesticides and antibiotics do is kill of the weakest part of a population, maybe 95-99% of the weakest members of a given population. What is left is 1-5% of the strongest most resistant strain of that population. This is (un)natural selection. When that strain reproduces you have an entire population immune to the original cure. This begins the cycle going on today with antibiotics/disease and pesticides/pests.

Botting is a serious plague for all MMOs . And the typical solution is the ban hammer. Figure out how a bot works, or who is botting and ban a massive amount of them. Does this get rid of the persons behind the computer willing and able to use a macro to gain an unfair advantage over players that actually play? Those people will always exist. So banning that person only causes them to come up with more innovative ways to bot. And we see a cycle going on today with bans/botters. Itís the same in every MMO.

Banning wonít ever work to solve the problem. Itís only a quick fix until the next bot is developed. To solve a problem with out drastically changing the structure of an MMO you need to be equally innovative. Make an environment that doesnít foster botting. Incorporate botting into the game somehow. Thereís a lot of innovative ideas in these forums alone.

Banning botters just makes better botters. Stop doing it.


I agree with you 100%. It is down to CCP to either change the game mechanics or give real players the same advantages as bots so that macros become irrelevant.

I have never used a macro in eve but i have considered doing it after discovering what a complete bore fest mining is.

Edit: If i were you i wouldn't even bother replying to some of the idiots posting in this thread, they are too closed minded and will only accuse you of being a botter.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.10 11:51:00 - [41]
 

Quote:
If you start thinking of botting as a plague, disease, or infestation you'll understand that killing off the weakest botters (the ones that get caught) solves nothing. Why? Plagues, diseases and infestations all have some kind of "cure." Mainly: Pesticides and antibiotics. But do pesticides and antibiotics really fix the problem?

K, no more antibiotics for you.

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.06.10 11:53:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles

Botting is a serious plague for all MMOs . And the typical solution is the ban hammer. Figure out how a bot works, or who is botting and ban a massive amount of them. Does this get rid of the persons behind the computer willing and able to use a macro to gain an unfair advantage over players that actually play? Those people will always exist. So banning that person only causes them to come up with more innovative ways to bot. And we see a cycle going on today with bans/botters. Itís the same in every MMO.

I see what you're driving at here, you're saying CCP should send a mafia style hitsquad to pod botters IRL
I for one, pledge my full support to this radical new initiative

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.06.10 12:01:00 - [43]
 

10 Mining isnt profitable, and thus the grind makes it boring.
20 So you want to bot it.
30 Boting makes mining profitable because you can do the afk thing.
40 Boting makes mineral values go down.
50 GOTO 10

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.10 12:03:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: DeODokktor
10 Mining isnt profitable, and thus the grind makes it boring.
20 So you want to bot it.
30 Boting makes mining profitable because you can do the afk thing.
40 Boting makes mineral values go down.
50 GOTO 10



This is about as basic of an explanation as you can get.

Lin-Young Borovskova
Posted - 2011.06.10 12:10:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Rek Seven
I agree with you 100%. It is down to CCP to either change the game mechanics or give real players the same advantages as bots so that macros become irrelevant.

I have never used a macro in eve but i have considered doing it after discovering what a complete bore fest mining is.

Edit: If i were you i wouldn't even bother replying to some of the idiots posting in this thread, they are too closed minded and will only accuse you of being a botter.


Bot's are an unfair advantage vs normal players and crushes market prices.

However, this game having such strong economics who drive everything in the game how can you expect yellow botters to come here tell to red botters "yeah you're right"
At least 20% of those posting here already used or keep using bots.
At least 50% if not more of players paying their sub with plex are botters, either mining or market bots

Hey what about you guys start running after market bots? -pretty sad you don't even talk about.
You know those from whom you can buy the single item at the lowest price for over and over for dozens hundred or even million times?

Ho wait, those are the same feeding rage about mining bots because they can't win more trillions than they already have, so sad ...

Rolling Eyes

Zag'mar Jurkar
Minmatar
Advent of the Blood Sun
Posted - 2011.06.10 12:20:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Zag''mar Jurkar on 10/06/2011 12:20:39
Even if you make the process of mining more dynamic, more interesting enough that people shouldn't want to bot anymore, they will bot.
People will find bots for everything, to get them advantages. Bots will never go away as long as the game offer the possibility to become richer/more powerful in some way.
But I'm not defending botters, sure CCP should make Bot-makers have a run for their cash as to code a good enough bot to not get caught, but saying that changing mechanics of mining will make botters stop the day it change, no, it won't.
People that make bots are clever and will find a way.

Happy botter griefs tho, that sure would make some of them stop, I hope.

Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries
Posted - 2011.06.10 12:38:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Rek Seven on 10/06/2011 12:38:40
Originally by: Zag'mar Jurkar
Edited by: Zag''mar Jurkar on 10/06/2011 12:20:39
Even if you make the process of mining more dynamic, more interesting enough that people shouldn't want to bot anymore, they will bot.
People will find bots for everything, to get them advantages. Bots will never go away as long as the game offer the possibility to become richer/more powerful in some way.
But I'm not defending botters, sure CCP should make Bot-makers have a run for their cash as to code a good enough bot to not get caught, but saying that changing mechanics of mining will make botters stop the day it change, no, it won't.
People that make bots are clever and will find a way.

Happy botter griefs tho, that sure would make some of them stop, I hope.


I disagree in that changing the game mechanics won't help. If CCP made it to where an active miner can mine more efficiently that a botter or an afk miner, then i think things would balance themselves out.

There are ways in which a game can be designed to make it virtually impossible to automate an action. Mining is just another example of and old feature in this game that needs redesigning....

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.06.10 13:20:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Zag'mar Jurkar

Even if you make the process of mining more dynamic, more interesting enough that people shouldn't want to bot anymore, they will bot.
People will find bots for everything, to get them advantages. Bots will never go away as long as the game offer the possibility to become richer/more powerful in some way.


Bull!

It's quite simply a matter of designing the game in a way that doesn't discourage botting, but rather makes it completely impossible. And as it turns out, features that are impossible to automate tend to be the ones that are also the most interesting and fun to play.

Two birds one stone so to speak.

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.06.10 19:42:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Corina''s Bodyguard on 10/06/2011 19:44:13
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Originally by: Zag'mar Jurkar

Even if you make the process of mining more dynamic, more interesting enough that people shouldn't want to bot anymore, they will bot.
People will find bots for everything, to get them advantages. Bots will never go away as long as the game offer the possibility to become richer/more powerful in some way.


Bull!

It's quite simply a matter of designing the game in a way that doesn't discourage botting, but rather makes it completely impossible. And as it turns out, features that are impossible to automate tend to be the ones that are also the most interesting and fun to play.

Two birds one stone so to speak.

The only feature that would be impossible to automate is one that doesn't involve a computer. Otherwise, it can be automated. Perhaps not easily or very well, but it is possible.


EDIT: not saying we shouldn't try, just that it will be a never ending battle.

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.06.10 20:36:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: DeODokktor
10 Mining isnt profitable, and thus the grind makes it boring.
20 So you want to bot it.
30 Boting makes mining profitable because you can do the afk thing.
40 Boting makes mineral values go down.
50 GOTO 10



Wrong!!!

More like this:

10 If Non-Cheater
20 then try mining
30 If boring
40 then stop mining
50 else
60 create 3 or 4 alts to run orca and multiple hulks and enjoy chillaxing game play
70 endif
80 else NO-GOOD-STINKING-CHEATER
90 Write mining bot... profit
100 Write market bot.... profit
110 Write ratting bot... profit
120 Write PI bot... profit
130 Write PVP assistance bot...own.


People do not bot mine because mining is boring. If they find mining boring, they go do something else.

People bot mine because they are no good cheating scum suckers and bot mining is one of the ways they can make isk by cheating.

It is like gun ownership. People do not decide they want to commit murder with a gun because they own a gun and a gun can kill. People that want to commit murder with a gun first decide they want to kill then decide to do it with a gun.


The problem is not that people really want to mine but it is too boring. The problem is that people want to CHEAT, and bot mining is one of many ways of doing it.

Going back to the same arguemnt the OP failed with. There is no reason to redesign minging to make is less bottable, because then the CHEATERS would just write a bot to exploit another aspect of the game or make their mining bots work with the new game mechanic.

And, you can't just make all botting legal... they had that game... it was called C++ Robots and NO ONE payed to play it.


Therefore, the possible courses of action are
1) Fight the war against bots.
2) Give up fighting the war, see the economy crash, paying players up and quit over frustration with botters, CCP goes bankrupt.

Like your immune system. You will never kill all the germs, but if you quit fighting them, you're dead.

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.06.10 20:38:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
It's quite simply a matter of designing the game in a way that doesn't discourage botting, but rather makes it completely impossible. And as it turns out, features that are impossible to automate tend to be the ones that are also the most interesting and fun to play.

Two birds one stone so to speak.


Mining, easy to bot. I do this a few times a week.

PI harder to bot. Tore down my colonies 9 months ago with plans to relocate them, but haven't bothered as it is just toooooo.... BLAH!

Therefore, your claim that less bottable is more fun is fail.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.11 20:58:00 - [52]
 

Quote:
Banning botters just makes better botters. Stop doing it.


So you're claiming that the solution to botting is to do nothing? flaw. So if we fight bacterea with antibiotics some small subset of the bug population will become more resistant and that means we shouldn't try to save lifes and stop the bugs? We shouldn't try to enforce the EULA...?

How is not doing anything to stop botting going to reduce their numbers? How is not doing anything going to be seen as anything other than an unspoken nod to keep up the breach of the rules?

I disagree with your conclusion.. if this is a never ending battle let it never end but that doesn't mean we should not fight it.

I agree with finding new methods to fight .. but there are some that are not a good idea..because you'll hack off your player base at the same time. Sure you can fight baterial infection by hacking off a limb but is that really the best plan? especially when there are other ideas that are less dramatic.. say identing the offending party and bannishing them?

The way I see it bot enablers have one huge blind spot, they make their product available to anyone who pays them. This leads to research on ways to identify use of their "product" in game.

If the botters finally come up with skynet AI trying to out think us then they will finally kill their host and die with it, move on, or be terminated by their own product.








Ehdward
Caldari
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.11 20:59:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Ehdward on 11/06/2011 20:59:50
Metaphors are like forum posters: rarely intelligent.


(self-included)

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.11 21:03:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
It's quite simply a matter of designing the game in a way that doesn't discourage botting, but rather makes it completely impossible. And as it turns out, features that are impossible to automate tend to be the ones that are also the most interesting and fun to play.

Two birds one stone so to speak.


Mining, easy to bot. I do this a few times a week.

PI harder to bot. Tore down my colonies 9 months ago with plans to relocate them, but haven't bothered as it is just toooooo.... BLAH!

Therefore, your claim that less bottable is more fun is fail.


you're admitting to botting two or three times a week?


Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.11 21:05:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Maverick2011 on 11/06/2011 21:07:30


You canīt prevent crime from happening, sick people from existing. Hacking/exploiting and cheating are staying forever in online games as they are in real life. Theres no system that will make EVERYONE want to play by the game rules. Theres always someone who wants to play by his own rules only.

So yes, you need a strong task force (not the ones that exist today, these are just rest of human resources used in dev teams and thats why they are so inneficient, gaming companies don't really move their fingers on security until their wallet is being messed up) to police and combat the players who will always play as an outlaw. People don't play by the rules even if the rules are "perfect" simply because people have different opinions of perfection.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.11 21:07:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles
Incorporate botting into the game somehow.


For those technically minded people for whom botting is the challenge in gaming then this is clearly the best solution.

Mining shouldn't be boring, it should require a logistical design by an intelligent human with an in-game market in bot scripts/parts/tools.


I still remember my first day seeing mining in Eve.... "WTF... This is the future, why am I grinding rocks, this a kids game like Runescape?"





mining does not make the money it should because botters ruin market value.. CCP want you to play their game in person .. not absentee. You can sit in a belt afk and do nothing all day I will not care.. if you are automated mining and out selling me.. I take great offence because you are cheating.



Tobiaz
Spacerats
Posted - 2011.06.11 23:05:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles
If you start thinking of botting as a plague, disease, or infestation you'll understand that killing off the weakest botters (the ones that get caught) solves nothing. Why? Plagues, diseases and infestations all have some kind of "cure." Mainly: Pesticides and antibiotics. But do pesticides and antibiotics really fix the problem? In the short term of course they do. And in a few rare cases they have altogether destroyed a population of bacteria or pest. But in the long run there is a never ending battle to come up with stronger "cures". What pesticides and antibiotics do is kill of the weakest part of a population, maybe 95-99% of the weakest members of a given population. What is left is 1-5% of the strongest most resistant strain of that population. This is (un)natural selection. When that strain reproduces you have an entire population immune to the original cure. This begins the cycle going on today with antibiotics/disease and pesticides/pests.

Botting is a serious plague for all MMOs . And the typical solution is the ban hammer. Figure out how a bot works, or who is botting and ban a massive amount of them. Does this get rid of the persons behind the computer willing and able to use a macro to gain an unfair advantage over players that actually play? Those people will always exist. So banning that person only causes them to come up with more innovative ways to bot. And we see a cycle going on today with bans/botters. Itís the same in every MMO.

Banning wonít ever work to solve the problem. Itís only a quick fix until the next bot is developed. To solve a problem with out drastically changing the structure of an MMO you need to be equally innovative. Make an environment that doesnít foster botting. Incorporate botting into the game somehow. Thereís a lot of innovative ideas in these forums alone.

Banning botters just makes better botters. Stop doing it.


Since you're using using the 'disease/plague' analogy, allow me to put that argument in a different perspective: human's increasing capability in fighting diseases has been, by far, the most important cause for our exponential population-growth since the 19th century. Ofcourse the improvement of food-supply, sanitation, lowered child and birth mortality, they all helped a lot. But it were the diseases that have constantly kept our numbers down since we stopped being hunting/gatherers.

So by a better application of your 'disease' analogy CCP actually should fight botting, since it's keeping EVE's economy down. Even problems like overabundant supercaps could be partially attributed to bots providing the abundance of cheap minerals. Eradicate the bots and sure: the mineral will go up, and all T1 equipment as well. But the influence of basic mineral prices these days is heavily mitigated by so many additional factors it's not going to be a '70 oil-crisis scenario.

And you know: the problem with mining now is not so much it's boring, but the fact it's boring AND pays bad as well. Guess what will happen when mining becomes more profitable then grinding L4 missions? Likely the same thing as with the beginning of EVE: more people socially mining in gangs, enjoying themselves probably a lot more then grinding enless L4 missions.

But I doubt CCP will ever manage to completely eradicate all bots, especially the less visible ones like marketbots or some labslot-bot. The demand for them will remain and bots indeed do evolve, so they'll continue to play a cat and mouse game with the devs. But an ability to adapt does not equal invincibility. Smallpox has only existed deep-frozen in some labs for over 30 years now. And just because something can be hard to fight, doesn't mean you should give up. After all: leave a serious disease untreated and it may very well kill you.

[/moralizing rant] Embarassed

Vastek Non
Posted - 2011.06.12 00:39:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Tobiaz
Originally by: Fiddles McGiggles

And you know: the problem with mining now is not so much it's boring, but the fact it's boring AND pays bad as well. Guess what will happen when mining becomes more profitable then grinding L4 missions? Likely the same thing as with the beginning of EVE: more people socially mining in gangs, enjoying themselves probably a lot more then grinding enless L4 missions.
[/moralizing rant] Embarassed


Quoted for truth. Corp mining ops were 'boring' in a sense, but definitely more fun than rescuing that moronic damsel for the xxxxth time for the day. Back in 05 when I started the pay for mining even in a Desty/Cruiser was pretty decent. Given a choice between the clickfest that is a L4 and some relaxing mining that pays only a little less... no contest.

P.S. Botters are cheating scum.


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