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blankseplocked CQ is nice, I guess. But lack of sufficient options = INSTAHATE
 
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My Postman
Posted - 2011.06.06 11:19:00 - [91]
 

/supported

I don´t want to end in my CQ eveytime i unload my hulk when mining (btw when mining gets profitable again, if ever). As Akita said, THIS DOES´NT MAKE SENSE.

I could live with it when changing fittings or so, this might even make sense in a RP way.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.06 11:21:00 - [92]
 

You still have keeping the hanger view and making CQ separate after docking as optional...

However I would say that making CQ do the job of being the hanger and the entry point into Incarna is such bad design that borks not only the docking process but the rest of incarna too,
And that the huge extra resources and time needed to make it work,
justify making it mandatory too.
It's the problem that causes almost all the other problems.

A lot of the issues it causes are on CCP's end but the effects are felt by us,
saying the very design itself is flawed and makes implementation much harder may sound esoteric,
but it manifests itself on our end in reduced content,
more bugs,
less flexibility,
less immersion,
slower development cycles,
more downtime,
and inherently less performance than separate features would provide.

For these reasons I would say that the most important thing for CCP to do is to separate out Incarna and the rest of eve by having a disembark button in the normal hanger view.
This makes most of the other issues liveable with till they are fixed.
And it frees up the Incarna design team to do things with CQ and the rest of Incarna they couldn't do if it has to be able to perform as the hanger as well.
Simply being able to run 1 UI instead of two would be a huge step forward.

Zora'e
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.06 11:32:00 - [93]
 

The current CQ build on SiSi shoves my CPU and GPU processor's into overheat. I go from a Tranquility running temperature of 38c to nearly 50c running at minimum graphics on sisi. That is just the PROCESSOR temperatures. My GPU goes from a Tranquility running temperature of roughly 41c to 74c on sisi (one client)... I normally run 3 clients on tranq and don't get those kind of temperatures.

CQ looks like it is going to have the potential to burn my GPU and CPU Processor's up unless some serious optimizing gets done in the next few days.

My Thermaltake CLP0564 Frio fan just can't pull the heat away fast enough from the CPU and the Zalman VF3000F is struggling to dump the heat from the GPU. With 4 120mm case fans, I don't have those types of heat issues with anything I run, but I'm having them with CQ. This makes Zora'e an unhappy camper.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.06.06 11:55:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Zora'e
The current CQ build on SiSi shoves my CPU and GPU processor's into overheat. I go from a Tranquility running temperature of 38c to nearly 50c running at minimum graphics on sisi. That is just the PROCESSOR temperatures. My GPU goes from a Tranquility running temperature of roughly 41c to 74c on sisi (one client)... I normally run 3 clients on tranq and don't get those kind of temperatures.

CQ looks like it is going to have the potential to burn my GPU and CPU Processor's up unless some serious optimizing gets done in the next few days.

My Thermaltake CLP0564 Frio fan just can't pull the heat away fast enough from the CPU and the Zalman VF3000F is struggling to dump the heat from the GPU. With 4 120mm case fans, I don't have those types of heat issues with anything I run, but I'm having them with CQ. This makes Zora'e an unhappy camper.

That alone is more than enough reason to keep CQ 'optional' in form of a "leave ship" button on the hangar view. So to everyone who'd be reading this discounting it as whining, think again. There is a lot of validity in the criticism posed here in the forum and CCP better HTFU, listen and implement it the way it is requested by a lot of people i.e. the way it makes sense.

Forcing CQ to load on every dock will do more harm than good, especially when the intial featureset doesn't compensate the loss in performance in form of features that are useful to everybody, not just the newbies.


Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.06 12:00:00 - [95]
 

At the moment it doesn't have features useful to anybody, due to the fact that the new 3d UI opens up the same old windows that bury CQ and mean you can only really practically use the old Neocom that doesn't get buried.
I would suggest adding a proper UI that does stuff actually in the CQ/Incarna environment should be on the list of must have features.
As it is CQ is totally useless. (except for entering the NCC which is the only feature you can no longer access from the neocom)

Namak Bulu
Gallente
Villore Regional Industries
Posted - 2011.06.06 12:45:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Mirabi Tiane
Originally by: Namak Bulu
EVE is only changing again. Immersion is long overdue

Good job ignoring my arguments. The current implementation of CQ harms immersion.


I suppose when I said that I don't yet have an opinion* on CQs didn't mean anything either. I was not refering to the current build on the test servers anyway. Nor was my post just about CQs by itself. Good job not reading my post. But I will say that if it goes live like it is now then I think your right.

But my original post had little to do with the way its currently working on the test servers or weather or not I agree with you.



*aside from those I think don't see the big picture

Mirabi Tiane
Posted - 2011.06.06 12:49:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Joan Avon
Incarna is doing what CCP knows it needs to do which is break out of the current niche it's t****d in and open up eve to a wider audience by making Eve more accessable and interesting to the greater general public. Eve is no longer as spaceship only game because that alone is not enough to increase CCP's market share and subscription base beyond it's current small share.

It can do that without being mandatory. In fact, it can probably accomplish that better if it's optional. Bludgeoning people over the head with something does not make them appreciate it.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.06 13:27:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Guttripper
You can not run the latest expansion? Well we hooked up with Nvidia to bring you a special deal..."


They gave us a special 10% discount offer at FanFest, which expired long before CQ hit the streets. Someone in the marketing department is a sly bugger - "we'll give them a discount, but make sure the offer expires before they actually want to use it!"

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.06 16:50:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 06/06/2011 16:52:25
Originally by: Mara Rinn
They gave us a special 10% discount offer at FanFest, which expired long before CQ hit the streets. Someone in the marketing department is a sly bugger - "we'll give them a discount, but make sure the offer expires before they actually want to use it!"

Meh, it was a discount on already slightly overpriced (and not that powerful) graphics cards.
IIRC, the most powerful card in the offer listing was a GTX 460 SE (or was it a GTX 450?), which is noticeably slower than a "regular" GTX 460, and even a GTX 460 isn't exactly *that* great with CQ (actual numbers on first page).

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.08 02:59:00 - [100]
 

How funny that in all this DUST madness (for something that will take almost another year to happen) we forget what is to come in just two weeks from now...

Atticus Fynch
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.08 03:03:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 05/06/2011 21:18:57

A much better fallback however would be the option to maintain the current hangar view alongside the CQ environment.



Akita, you realize that statment makes waaaay too much sense, thus will never be implemented for reasons unknown.Sad

Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.06.08 07:53:00 - [102]
 

I want to be able to shoot at the station and make alarms go off and have the camera shake and lights flickering and really just make it very stressful for everyone who refuses to undock.

Particularly for outposts.

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.08 08:49:00 - [103]
 

I agree, the CQ needs to be implemented but only as an optional environment.
The player SHOULD be able to switch out between the current hangar view and the CQ at will.

We really need this choice, I personally do not want to have to end up on the hangar balcony every time I dock. Its immersion breaking and we will lose our ship spinning capabilities :(

This should be simple enough with an additional dock button (dock and disembark) and a toggle switch in the NeoCom.

Lexxxii
Posted - 2011.06.08 12:22:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah
You still have keeping the hanger view and making CQ separate after docking as optional...

For these reasons I would say that the most important thing for CCP to do is to separate out Incarna and the rest of eve by having a disembark button in the normal hanger view.


Soooooo many people have said this, for once CCP please listen.

How hard can it be. Seriously.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.08 12:44:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Akita T
How funny that in all this DUST madness (for something that will take almost another year to happen) we forget what is to come in just two weeks from now...


Didn't forget about it... just moved discussion out of general ;-) it got a bit too noisy in here.

Khavi Kitamatsu
Posted - 2011.06.08 13:19:00 - [106]
 

I hope eventually we can customize our CQ's and even invite friends in. It would be cool to be able to personalize our characters CQ's.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:04:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu
I hope eventually we can customize our CQ's and even invite friends in. It would be cool to be able to personalize our characters CQ's.

And that novelty is interesting for how long?

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:08:00 - [108]
 

I think at this point we can pretty much write off having the old hanger environment for the immediate term.

CCP has just replaced the place holder loading station environment thingy with an actual image of a station interior. Implying that the removal of the hanger is indeed permanent.

It's a shame really.

Fix Lag
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:20:00 - [109]
 

Fix lag by not forcing players to use "content" (and I have to stretch the definition of that word to fit Incarna...christ it's a screen on a wall, thanks for spending 18 months on that) that will leave anyone with a laptop SOL and anyone with a PC older than three years SOL.

Summer of Rage II.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:20:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: Akita T
A much better fallback however would be the option to maintain the current hangar view alongside the CQ environment.

Akita, you realize that statment makes waaaay too much sense, thus will never be implemented for reasons unknown.Sad

Yeah, most likely Neutral

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:33:00 - [111]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 11/06/2011 12:35:00
might be just me.. but loading times on the latest Sisi build for the CQ are way faster now.. Version: 7.10.269603
Could you run another timing on your machine Akita and compare with your earlier stats?

Dr Karsun
Gallente
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:34:00 - [112]
 

Well, my pc runs up to 3 clients in their CQs as it does in the normal station, the frame rate doesn't drop below any margin which would make any VISUAL change... I mean, sure, the digits get a lil' bit down, but it doesn't make any problem as far as gaming goes.

My PC (box only) cost me something around 350 bucks... And I bought it around a year ago... It's really not that bad. I run win 7, 64 bits, with 4GB of ram, a 1024 radeon hd5770 and an amd quad core 2ghz... So it's not all top-shelf stuff.

I'm all for CQ, it runs smooth and it WILL make my player exeriance far, far better. I am really waiting for it. SISI that has the CQ now makes it look totally awesome, can't wait.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:39:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 11/06/2011 12:49:30
Originally by: Dr Karsun
Well, my pc runs up to 3 clients in their CQs as it does in the normal station, the frame rate doesn't drop below any margin which would make any VISUAL change... I mean, sure, the digits get a lil' bit down, but it doesn't make any problem as far as gaming goes.

But have you been watching your video card temperature ? Twisted Evil
Quote:
SISI that has the CQ now makes it look totally awesome, can't wait.

Except the lighting is kinda' "meh" in most of the CQ, but that's another story...
Originally by: Tres Farmer
might be just me.. but loading times on the latest Sisi build for the CQ are way faster now.. Version: 7.10.269603
Could you run another timing on your machine Akita and compare with your earlier stats?

I wasn't particularly bothered with the loading times to begin with... I suppose people that dock/undock often will just disable CQ loading and be done with it (and re-enable it only when they want to).
I'll retest it later on...

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.11 12:59:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Dr Karsun
Well, my pc runs up to 3 clients in their CQs as it does in the normal station, the frame rate doesn't drop below any margin which would make any VISUAL change... I mean, sure, the digits get a lil' bit down, but it doesn't make any problem as far as gaming goes.

But have you been watching your video card temperature ? Twisted Evil
*snip*

HD 4670 512MB stock clock 780MHz, all settings in client high, windowed 1440x900
idle with some processes open, 17% usage, 45degC
sisi, sitting on couch from behind + above, 99% usage, 62degC, 18fps_avg
tq, hangar view + above, 85% usage, 56degC, 50fps_avg

Was a nice low power card 2-3 years ago.. time doesn't stand still. ugh

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.06.11 13:21:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Akita T

So, to recap, you can keep the CQ environment as the default enabled option, but:
* MANDATORY - separate the CQ from the non-CQ graphics detail settings into two completely separate groups which you can set differently
* MANDATORY - keep the ESC menu option to not load any environment at all
* STRONGLY PREFERRED - add some even lower graphics detail levels for CQ
* OPTIONAL - do not delete the current hangar environments AND make them an alternative (default disabled) via the ESC menu



+1, especially the optional.

Scorpii Orion
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.11 13:36:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 05/06/2011 20:22:08
Originally by: Scorpii Orion
Originally by: Akita T
botwhine
Just NO! Kill the BOTS! Force CQ!
Only botters use crappy PC's and good enough PC costs like 150$ and even in Africa they can afford on that.

I surely hope you're attempting to make a joke. Or being sarcastic, but not getting it quite right.
Couldn't be more serious.

These RMT losers are the ones who are really wanting option to disable it.

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.11 13:38:00 - [117]
 

Just buy a new computer and stop playing with that 10 years old relic, whiners.

Scorpii Orion
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.11 13:39:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Scorpii Orion on 11/06/2011 13:39:33
Originally by: Jasdemi
Just buy a new computer and stop playing with that 10 years old relic, whiners.
Yeah, world is not static, no matter how much they whine.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.11 13:50:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Scorpii Orion
These RMT losers are the ones who are really wanting option to disable it.

It's already disableable, so you don't have a point anymore.
Unless you are actively campaigning to REMOVE the recently re-added "load station environment" checkbox ?

Originally by: Jasdemi
Just buy a new computer and stop playing with that 10 years old relic, whiners.

If I'd be using a 60Hz LCD screen with vsynch on I'd almost always have max FPS in CQ even with max details, but since I'm at 85Hz I get the occasional fluctuation.
That doesn't mean I like having my graphics card burning the full 160-170W or however much power it usually burns at full load, heating up in the process, JUST to display something I have very little interest in displaying at THAT particular graphic detail, especially when it doesn't even look that good to begin with.
I'd much rather prefer to have the option to let it burn only 60-70W or thereabouts, as it usually does now in stations.

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.11 15:34:00 - [120]
 

Just a partly unrelated heads up, if your GTX460 gets to 72 degrees with ANY game (or to 56 with something as light as the stations), either your video card fan is damaged, or you need to work on the airflow in your case. Tuck away excess cables, add more fans on the case, or get a better case (there are very cheap ones around with fantastic airflows like the Antec 300, provided that all the optional fans are installed).

72 degrees for a GTX460 seriously risks to damage it, or at the very least increase wear and tear by a LOT.


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