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Tenzeck
Posted - 2011.06.08 02:13:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Torp dps from Golem is 1k faction amd 1.2k t2 rage. I'm assuming the "noticeably more than 1k" is again with 3 Gardes factored in?


Well, 1.2K is "noticeably more than 1k". Additionally, that 1.2k is not including implants or drones of any sort, so it can actually be even higher.

You need to fit 3 target painters to make that 1.2k effective, but that still leaves 4 spots for tank which is the norm. Three mids for improved damage or mobility isn't unusual on high end mission battleships.

Quote:
Tengus actually has no issue with frigs whatsoever.


This I agree with. Especially with a HML fit, even Angel frigates don't last long. I suppose it does depend on how you fit, but the typical mission Tengu really is efficient at taking out frigates. The Golem will struggle to kill some frigates without his drones, although with 3 TP you can kill some of them quite quickly.


Cuircuir Moustache
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.08 14:49:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: NoNah
(Tengu)'s mobility both in warp, entering warp and between warps which is very very handy now that you can MWD within missions.

A MWD missionning Tengu. What a good idea !

NoNah
Posted - 2011.06.08 18:59:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: NoNah on 08/06/2011 19:00:14
Originally by: Goose99

Torp dps from Golem is 1k faction amd 1.2k t2 rage. I'm assuming the "noticeably more than 1k" is again with 3 Gardes factored in? Tengus actually has no issue with frigs whatsoever. That's its strength, as opposed to BS sized rats where applied dps from BS come closer to paper dps. Hml one volley 30k bounty elite frig rats at 3 sec rop. Ham takes two volleys, but at a faster 2 second rop. Either way it's far faster than drones on those same frigs.


Absolutely. And if a golem devoted it's entire damage towards killing a frigate, it would most likely die faster than to a ham tengu. Fact is with a relatively basic fit tengu(6 hams kinetic rage hams(the same ones you used for previous comparisson) no tps) a golem will have quite similiar dps(using t1 kinetic torps, 3 tps, no drones). That is ignoring the golems drones entirely. If you want to factor switching ammo on the tengu to non-rage the golem is way ahead.

Even so all of that is beside the point. The point is those 1k dps you supplied us with for a torp golem is completely devoted to killing non-frigs(and typically only the remainder of cruisers). The ninehundredwhatever dps the tengu deals is to a fair portion spent on frigs and cruisers. So you're stuck with either a 1400 dps golem that has to torp frigates, or a 1-1.2k golem that can ignore frigates compared to a less than a 1k damagetype challenged tengu. I've written this post 3 times or something such and for various reasons failed to post it, but I want to recall off note that the difference in dps of corresponding golems and tengus were in the area of 33-54% depending on enviromental attributes like wether drones are factored in, if rage torps are used etc.

Originally by: Cuircuir Moustache
Originally by: NoNah
(Tengu)'s mobility both in warp, entering warp and between warps which is very very handy now that you can MWD within missions.

A MWD missionning Tengu. What a good idea !


It is, and a few months back it was a new one to, rather than an old and widely used one.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:44:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: NoNah
Edited by: NoNah on 08/06/2011 19:00:14
Originally by: Goose99

Torp dps from Golem is 1k faction amd 1.2k t2 rage. I'm assuming the "noticeably more than 1k" is again with 3 Gardes factored in? Tengus actually has no issue with frigs whatsoever. That's its strength, as opposed to BS sized rats where applied dps from BS come closer to paper dps. Hml one volley 30k bounty elite frig rats at 3 sec rop. Ham takes two volleys, but at a faster 2 second rop. Either way it's far faster than drones on those same frigs.


Absolutely. And if a golem devoted it's entire damage towards killing a frigate, it would most likely die faster than to a ham tengu. Fact is with a relatively basic fit tengu(6 hams kinetic rage hams(the same ones you used for previous comparisson) no tps) a golem will have quite similiar dps(using t1 kinetic torps, 3 tps, no drones). That is ignoring the golems drones entirely. If you want to factor switching ammo on the tengu to non-rage the golem is way ahead.

Even so all of that is beside the point. The point is those 1k dps you supplied us with for a torp golem is completely devoted to killing non-frigs(and typically only the remainder of cruisers). The ninehundredwhatever dps the tengu deals is to a fair portion spent on frigs and cruisers. So you're stuck with either a 1400 dps golem that has to torp frigates, or a 1-1.2k golem that can ignore frigates compared to a less than a 1k damagetype challenged tengu. I've written this post 3 times or something such and for various reasons failed to post it, but I want to recall off note that the difference in dps of corresponding golems and tengus were in the area of 33-54% depending on enviromental attributes like wether drones are factored in, if rage torps are used etc.

Originally by: Cuircuir Moustache
Originally by: NoNah
(Tengu)'s mobility both in warp, entering warp and between warps which is very very handy now that you can MWD within missions.

A MWD missionning Tengu. What a good idea !


It is, and a few months back it was a new one to, rather than an old and widely used one.


No tps? A Golem can't hit BS with no tps, much less elite frig. You're stretching it too much, to the point where it's silly. I've flown both, I know how they handle. A Golem, even with 3 bonused tps take a long time to kill 30k bounty elite frigs, far longer than the 4 seconds it takes for ham tengu to pump out 2 volleys. There is no such thing as a Golem "completely devoted" to killing elite frigs, because the torps do no damage. Do yourself a favor and just leave them to the drones.

Tenzeck
Posted - 2011.06.09 00:36:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Goose99
No tps? A Golem can't hit BS with no tps, much less elite frig.


I am fairly sure he was talking about "a relatively basic Tengu fit" when he said no target painters.

You can see he then mentioned a Golem fit with three target painters.

You seem to have mixed up the wording in the sentence there. I admit he could have arranged that less awkwardly, but still it seems like your response is based on misreading what he said.


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