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Salohcin Dragon Maricadie
Posted - 2011.06.02 15:34:00 - [1]
 

Why notr, many of us would love to ditch windows, but not have to mess with Wine.

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2011.06.02 15:36:00 - [2]
 

Oh man! Read some of the old threads.


Helios Hyperion
Posted - 2011.06.05 22:33:00 - [3]
 

There was a 'native' Linux client several years ago (it was, in reality, just the Windows client with an included Cedega wrapper), and there was actual support that went along with it to make sure it worked as well as they could make it.

However, about 2 years ago they cancelled official support for the Linux client, citing lack of interest from the Linux sector (and contrasting it with the rising popularity of users running the OS X client). They've kept this forum, as the community still provides fantastic support for running Eve in Wine, and from everything I can tell the developers have been able to keep the game Wine-friendly, promoting users to simply run it through Wine.

Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2011.06.05 23:17:00 - [4]
 

And wine isn't really a mess, just give it a try

Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2011.06.06 03:06:00 - [5]
 

In fact, The Windows/w Wine version was soo better than the official supported Windows/w Cedega version that most of the Linux user was counted as... Windows users.

cargo2000
Minmatar
Nepenthe Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.07 05:33:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Ravow
In fact, The Windows/w Wine version was soo better than the official supported Windows/w Cedega version that most of the Linux user was counted as... Windows users.


This, and for a real 'native Linux version' they would have to break away from dx. I for one don't see an openGL rewrite happening any time soon(ever).

Helios Hyperion
Posted - 2011.06.07 15:04:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: cargo2000
This, and for a real 'native Linux version' they would have to break away from dx. I for one don't see an openGL rewrite happening any time soon(ever).


What does the OSX version use?

cargo2000
Minmatar
Nepenthe Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.07 19:51:00 - [8]
 

iirc they are using cider, a product to help ease the transition for direct3d games to Mac.

Katrina Bekers
Gallente
Fighters Squadron
Posted - 2011.06.08 13:30:00 - [9]
 

*eyes the calendar*

...Is the "Linux native" period of the year again?

Mac client works exactly like WINE, being just that at its core: a Cider-powered compatibility layer and graphic call translator on which the "standard" client is implanted.

The best thing we have as Linux users, is WINE. Don't hold your breath for a total refactoring of the code from DirectX to OpenGL. Would be too naive to think CCP can see the business opportunity in that.

Mostly because there is hardly one.

Amenotep Polo
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.09 05:03:00 - [10]
 

when will we see native direct x for linux?

Someone buy microsoft already, and make their software open source.

Mamede
Posted - 2011.06.12 00:08:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Helios Hyperion
There was a 'native' Linux client several years ago (it was, in reality, just the Windows client with an included Cedega wrapper), and there was actual support that went along with it to make sure it worked as well as they could make it.

However, about 2 years ago they cancelled official support for the Linux client, citing lack of interest from the Linux sector (and contrasting it with the rising popularity of users running the OS X client). They've kept this forum, as the community still provides fantastic support for running Eve in Wine, and from everything I can tell the developers have been able to keep the game Wine-friendly, promoting users to simply run it through Wine.


1. Wrong , No Native client was done.
2. It was done by transgamming which was using cedega(oolld wine + transgaming code).
3. The wine version + windows client had less bugs with no official support
4. I used linux and couldn't use the transgaming version..since I couldn't even copy text to clipboard.
5. Wine used premium with no problem and cedega version only allowed classic.
6. If EVE was done in OPengl we would probably have a native version with no sweat. D3d is the platform. So no chocolate for us.

John Cogan
Posted - 2011.06.17 20:12:00 - [12]
 

"Lack of interest" - Since when if anything usage of Linux is on the rise as far as I know.

I am new to Linux (Ubuntu 11.04) and since making the move I have hardly spent much time in Windows 7. I only go over to that if I absolutely have to. If anything Linux is easier to use, I think the terminal scares a lot of people but don't realise you don't actually have to open the terminal to use the OS.

It is seriously time they did a native Eve, its not like they could not afford a team to provide support for it.

My Eve has broken twice now on the last two major patches after running it fine for years on my Windows system. I refuse to download the entire client again from scratch and I am convinced (although I have not yet tried it) it'll work and patch fine using the Linux + Wine version.

COMM4NDER
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.19 01:16:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: John Cogan
"Lack of interest" - Since when if anything usage of Linux is on the rise as far as I know.

I am new to Linux (Ubuntu 11.04) and since making the move I have hardly spent much time in Windows 7. I only go over to that if I absolutely have to. If anything Linux is easier to use, I think the terminal scares a lot of people but don't realise you don't actually have to open the terminal to use the OS.

It is seriously time they did a native Eve, its not like they could not afford a team to provide support for it.

My Eve has broken twice now on the last two major patches after running it fine for years on my Windows system. I refuse to download the entire client again from scratch and I am convinced (although I have not yet tried it) it'll work and patch fine using the Linux + Wine version.


Writing it to OpenGL + all the ugly hacks they probably have in the code is not really an easy job. It is a total rewrite of the graphics engine and probably some few ugly hacks to let it work lite it works now. But seeing dust running on Playstation 3 that uses opengl who knows 2030 maybe we will have a opengl client also since all tablets use OpenGL ES that would be a good move to support tablets.

Velator Nador
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.21 03:24:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Velator Nador on 21/06/2011 03:27:00
Edited by: Velator Nador on 21/06/2011 03:26:15
Edited by: Velator Nador on 21/06/2011 03:25:02
Originally by: Amenotep Polo
when will we see native direct x for linux?

Someone buy microsoft already, and make their software open source.


My Lord. I never actually thought of that. The one thing they talk is money. Use it against them.. I'm serious. That would be interesting. I usually think outdoing them with good programming and the like. HMMM. I wonder how hard it would be to do a corporate take over! 8p and dismantle the company and take the programming. Maybe if all linux users bought the stock or something... wow you could, possibly, actually, make everyone happy.

Of course you could only use the code for education. In bad programming. But it would be cool sitting in the public domain! 8p (and posterity of history)

BTW why doesn't everyone get together rebuild the education on math, programming, graphics and start writing better. I'm pretty sure direct x is junk code and concepts. Why isn't there a better version?! It shouldn't be that hard.

Xianthar
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.21 06:56:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Velator Nador

I'm pretty sure direct x is junk code and concepts. Why isn't there a better version?! It shouldn't be that hard.


If only openGL were actually better / easier to work with than DX10/11.

Unfortunately that isn't the case and directx really has improved and become a better library to work with than openGL in the last few iterations. The once giant lead openGL had in usability and performance is gone and it doesn't appear that kronos is doing much to fix it at the moment.

Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:44:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Ravow on 22/06/2011 18:36:07
Linux have native Direct3D support for open source video drivers.

It's the d3d1x Gallium3D states tracker. It support Direct3D 10/11 and he is still alpha(I think). Plus I think that Wine need some patch to use it.

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/log/?qt=grep&q=d3d1x

So yeah, If CCP upgrade to Direct3D 10 and do a good programming, we could have Native as the most hard is to port direct3d to openGL.. It will not be necessary if they just port to DirectX 10.

Nimtra
Posted - 2011.06.30 23:51:00 - [17]
 

Except that the ati+nvidia blobs will never ever support gallium, as this would mean complete rewrite of their drivers and thus throwing years of development on the trash, not to speak of trusting a 3rd party driver framework that currently only runs on Linux. Gallium is pretty sweet as it helps the opensource driver devs to avoid code duplication ( drivers implement the gallium hooks, gallium implement e.g. d3d ), but that really is no concern at all for nvidia + amd, and most likely not at all in their interest because trade secrets. Also they probably don't want to step into that IP minefield that is a reimplementation of direct3d. ( Just like there's no opensource openGL3 because of patents that are on several texture compression algorithms in the spec )
So ... unless the opensource drivers suddenly get lots of money and developers to make them crazy fast and have access to hardware months in advance of the release to fully support the latest and greatest cards, d3d on Linux will always be more of a toy then anything else.
I do think its awesome someone did implement it though, but sadly the reality is against us.

Also a reimplementation of eve to the Linux APIs need changes to sound ( direct sound, EAX.... to e.g. openAL) file handling( I guess though python handles that ) input ( directinput or similar to e.g. SDL ) and plenty more. And unless there's a tangible profit to be made it isn't gonna happen. And since there's barely any experience with the Linux market, companies don't try, and thus there's no experience with the market.... Thought the humble indie bundle did show that Linux player do want to spend money, making about 1/4 of the total revenue, where mac has around 15% .

In conclusion, no matter how much id love to see it, it's not gonna happen.
Wine is great though.

Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2011.07.03 00:06:00 - [18]
 

Yes, it's only for Opensource drivers, who became better and better. Of course, This will need to be adressed to CCP and they will not adapt it but still OSS seam to improve a lot.

For the ClosedGL3, it seam to be better and better as some dev decided to who care about the patent so the current status For Radoen HD3000+ serie is :

Implemented :
Map buffer subranges (GL_ARB_map_buffer_range) DONE
Clamping controls (GL_ARB_color_buffer_float) DONE
Patent infected Float textures, renderbuffers (GL_ARB_texture_float) DONE
Patent infected GL_EXT_packed_float DONE
GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent DONE
Float depth buffers (GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float) DONE Since yesterday!
Framebuffer objects (GL_EXT_framebuffer_object) DONE
Half-float DONE
Multisample blit DONE
1D/2D Texture arrays core Mesa DONE
Packed depth/stencil formats DONE
Per-buffer blend and masks (GL_EXT_draw_buffers2) DONE
Patent infected GL_EXT_texture_compression_rgtc DONE
Red and red/green texture formats DONE
Vertex array objects (GL_APPLE_vertex_array_object) DONE
sRGB framebuffer format (GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB) core GL done gallium, GLX todo
glClearBuffer commands DONE
glGetStringi command DONE
glTexParameterI, glGetTexParameterI commands DONE
glVertexAttribI commands DONE

NOT IMPLEMENTED
-GLSL 1.30 (GL_EXT_gpu_shader4, etc.) started
-Depth format cube textures 0% done
-Transform feedback (GL_EXT_transform_feedback) ~50% done
glBindFragDataLocation, glGetFragDataLocation,
glBindBufferRange, glBindBufferBase commands
-Non-normalized Integer texture/framebuffer formats ~50% done

After checking that, we see that all the patented crap is already implemented and what is missing is a proper GLSL compilater because the Intel one we use is a bit... crappy but the new one who is using LLVL seem to be on a good way!

Nimtra
Posted - 2011.07.03 20:24:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Nimtra on 03/07/2011 20:30:01
I'm aware of that and its nice and well, but the OSS drivers still lack optimization sadly. As I said, if they suddenly had lots of money and experienced devs to make them as fast at 3D acceleration then the binary blobs , there actually would be a viable alternative to the openGL only binary blobs, and would prolly make wine + eve run a lot faster.
I thinks its pretty awesome though that at 2d acceleration the reverse engineered nvidia drivers seem to be faster then the binary drivers, hell even that they work at all.

Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2011.07.04 00:16:00 - [20]
 

The 2D code for Open Source ATI and Nvidia is faster than the proprietary drivers. This include the video pleback for ATI drivers, who is more smooth and without tearing with open source drivers.

On the AMD/ATI side, they have 3 "experienced developer" who are working for AMD and do principally Open source work. The current open source drivers for Radeon HD2000- (R100-R450) is faster than the proprietary blob on everything and those card support more functions that with the binary blob thank to the LLVM software rastelizer who is happily emulating what not supported on the card (On other term, a OpenGL2 card can now "support" OpenGL3)

For the Radoen HD2000+, like the 4870 or the 5xxx serie, the drivers is not yet as mature but still support most of the opengl3. And EVE was running at faster than the refresh rate of my monitor before Incarna so they are coming good especially if we think that 2.5 years ago, those drivers was only able to draw opensource triangles.

For Nvidia, it's not the same thing! Unlike AMD, nobody from Nvidia work on the open drivers and... Unlike AMD, Nvidia did not release anything about the inner working of there card (AMD release everything including code sample...) soo yeah, if you have a Nvidia card, you may forget Opensource drivers for a couple of time.. I don't say that the Nvidia oss drivers are bad, The devels made a very good job reverse engineering them.


Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:46:00 - [21]
 

FYI, AMD hired two other programmer for improving the opensource driver.

- Michel Dänzer
- Christian König

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTYzOA


 

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