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Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.06.02 18:50:00 - [151]
 

Bravo, Ms. Constantine. Wink

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:05:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
6. Moira CEO attempted to use Veto CEO "Verone" as an intermediary to offer peace terms (which were rejected by the Free Captains in formal vote) consequence of this being Verone declaring SF had "forced his hand".


Correction :

6. Moira CEO attempted to use Veto CEO "Verone" as an intermediary to offer peace terms (which were rejected by the Free Captains in formal vote). Veto Corp would have been happy to walk away at this point, however Constantine then decided to brand us Moira sympathisers and add us to their campaign, effectively dragging us into this war. The consequence of this was that SF forced us to become involved through their own actions.

Originally by: Jade Constantine
But I think thats the wrong way to look at this. And speaking from the Fraction perspective we did not wardec Moira to draw out Rote/Veto on this occassion but accept if those entities decide its in their operational interests to prop up a Gallente Nationalist enclosurist corp in Placid (that Verone does apparently own shares in) its entirely their choice to do so.



Correct, I own shares in Moira that were sold to me by a Federal nationalist. I own shares in many corporations, that fight many wars. I happen to own shares in several State loyalist Corporations too. I fail to see how I can be both a State and Federation loyalist at the same time for doing so.

You just happened to be in the right place at the right time to be shot at, since we've been working alongside Rote Kapelle and you moved into their sphere of operation, which subsequently became ours.

As for the whole situation, there's a direct and simple way to resolve it :

> The Star Fraction Executor removes us from their campaign statistics. (In which they currently have 7.51% combat efficiency directly against us.)

> The Star Fraction issues a full formal apology on the IGS, written by its Executor, recognising the incorrect and complete baseless fallacy of the allegations made against us, and apologising for wrongly implicating us as Gallente Nationalist sympathisers.

> The Star Fraction's Executor, or a diplomatic contact then contacts the Veto Corp executor to confirm the above two terms have been met.


In return, Veto Corp ceases and desists in any direct action against The Star Fraction unless further allegations and insinuations are made against our organisation and operations.

Simple.



Demonika Satarum
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:06:00 - [153]
 

Congratulations on your eight years of achievement. May your beacon of light shine bright for those that are in your need.

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:08:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

Apologies that I missed this quote yesterday in all the drama but I have ask:


Originally by: Verone
I don't think there's a bed in the cluster that could support a man who's 8 feet tall, plus her immense ego.



Are you really eight feet tall Verone?



Yes, it's a long story.

Well, 7'11". I rounded up.

It can be quite a curse, but on the other hand a blessing Wink


Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:11:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Jade Constantine

Apologies that I missed this quote yesterday in all the drama but I have ask:


Originally by: Verone
I don't think there's a bed in the cluster that could support a man who's 8 feet tall, plus her immense ego.



Are you really eight feet tall Verone?



Yes, it's a long story.

Well, 7'11". I rounded up.

It can be quite a curse, but on the other hand a blessing Wink




I'd imagine you bump your head on your pod alot.. amongst other things.


Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:14:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Jason Galente
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Jade Constantine

Apologies that I missed this quote yesterday in all the drama but I have ask:


Originally by: Verone
I don't think there's a bed in the cluster that could support a man who's 8 feet tall, plus her immense ego.



Are you really eight feet tall Verone?



Yes, it's a long story.

Well, 7'11". I rounded up.

It can be quite a curse, but on the other hand a blessing Wink




I'd imagine you bump your head on your pod alot.. amongst other things.




Well, the capsule is quite snug, although extended deployments have caused several days of back pain after decanting. Haven't had that since my Navy days though. It's a lot easier to stretch my legs now.

As for bumping my head, I think my fiancée will attest to how many times I've emerged from a doorway rubbing my head and either smirking with amusement or looking sheepish.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:22:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/06/2011 19:23:40

Originally by: Verone
As for the whole situation, there's a direct and simple way to resolve it :
> The Star Fraction Executor removes us from their campaign statistics. (In which they currently have 7.51% combat efficiency directly against us.)
> The Star Fraction issues a full formal apology on the IGS, written by its Executor, recognising the incorrect and complete baseless fallacy of the allegations made against us, and apologising for wrongly implicating us as Gallente Nationalist sympathisers.
> The Star Fraction's Executor, or a diplomatic contact then contacts the Veto Corp executor to confirm the above two terms have been met.

In return, Veto Corp ceases and desists in any direct action against The Star Fraction unless further allegations and insinuations are made against our organisation and operations.

Simple.


You know what Verone. If you were prepared to pledge full future neutrality in the conflict between Star Fraction and Moira and pledge that your forces would play no role whatsoever in engagements between SF and Moira vessels - including Tower warfare, skirmish and larger fights. That might be something that I could take to the Free Captains and see what they say in a formal vote.

I have absolutely no personal problem in salving your hurt feelings with an apology for branding you supporters of Gallente Nationalism if you are prepared to enter into an agreement that specifically precludes you from offering support to the Gallente Nationalists in question.

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:36:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/06/2011 19:23:40

Originally by: Verone
As for the whole situation, there's a direct and simple way to resolve it :
> The Star Fraction Executor removes us from their campaign statistics. (In which they currently have 7.51% combat efficiency directly against us.)
> The Star Fraction issues a full formal apology on the IGS, written by its Executor, recognising the incorrect and complete baseless fallacy of the allegations made against us, and apologising for wrongly implicating us as Gallente Nationalist sympathisers.
> The Star Fraction's Executor, or a diplomatic contact then contacts the Veto Corp executor to confirm the above two terms have been met.

In return, Veto Corp ceases and desists in any direct action against The Star Fraction unless further allegations and insinuations are made against our organisation and operations.

Simple.


You know what Verone. If you were prepared to pledge full future neutrality in the conflict between Star Fraction and Moira and pledge that your forces would play no role whatsoever in engagements between SF and Moira vessels - including Tower warfare, skirmish and larger fights. That might be something that I could take to the Free Captains and see what they say in a formal vote.

I have absolutely no personal problem in salving your hurt feelings with an apology for branding you supporters of Gallente Nationalism if you are prepared to enter into an agreement that specifically precludes you from offering support to the Gallente Nationalists in question.



It's less about hurt feelings and more about the fact that I and my corporation have no association with the Gallente Federation.

In fact, we have a solid track record of action AGAINST the Federation, including being the primary force involved in The Kassigainen Incident.

You'd still need to be fully aware that we're NBSI, and when flying alongside Rote Kapelle, we would still be perfectly capable of taking targets of opportunity.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:45:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Verone
It's less about hurt feelings and more about the fact that I and my corporation have no association with the Gallente Federation. In fact, we have a solid track record of action AGAINST the Federation, including being the primary force involved in The Kassigainen Incident.


Well if you wish to underline your opposition to the Gallente Federation and their capsuleer auxilaries then I invite you to make the offer of neutrality in this dispute I suggested.

Quote:
You'd still need to be fully aware that we're NBSI, and when flying alongside Rote Kapelle, we would still be perfectly capable of taking targets of opportunity.


To be taken seriously as a proposal you'd need to be offering us something - and full neutrality in the conflict between Star Fraction and Moira would need to be understood. This would neccessarily preclude your pilots from combat in the vicinity of Moira defense towers or involvement on one side or the other of space engagements between SF and Moira vessels. Without this term and surety any such agreement would be worthless from our perspective because what would stop you simply "accidently" hot-dropping or otherwise arriving on the Moira tower while we were in the process of attacking it?

Your motivation for doing this is not really that relevant. What is relevant is the impact in space and since this whole farrago began with Veto/Rote ships relieving the siege of the Moira tower it would seem reasonable to rule out future occurances of this kind in exchange for the public recognition of distance you seek.

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:52:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Verone
It's less about hurt feelings and more about the fact that I and my corporation have no association with the Gallente Federation. In fact, we have a solid track record of action AGAINST the Federation, including being the primary force involved in The Kassigainen Incident.


Well if you wish to underline your opposition to the Gallente Federation and their capsuleer auxilaries then I invite you to make the offer of neutrality in this dispute I suggested.


I don't need to underline my position.

It's been apparent since I was discharged from the Navy and walked away from the Federation. Even moreso since the Kassigainen incident.

Originally by: Jade Constantine
To be taken seriously as a proposal you'd need to be offering us something - and full neutrality in the conflict between Star Fraction and Moira would need to be understood. This would neccessarily preclude your pilots from combat in the vicinity of Moira defense towers or involvement on one side or the other of space engagements between SF and Moira vessels. Without this term and surety any such agreement would be worthless from our perspective because what would stop you simply "accidently" hot-dropping or otherwise arriving on the Moira tower while we were in the process of attacking it?

Your motivation for doing this is not really that relevant. What is relevant is the impact in space and since this whole farrago began with Veto/Rote ships relieving the siege of the Moira tower it would seem reasonable to rule out future occurances of this kind in exchange for the public recognition of distance you seek.



There's a flip side to that coin. What's to stop SF vessels simply congregating around Moira assets and using the area of exclusion as a safe zone if we're ever in pursuit of them?


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:58:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Verone

There's a flip side to that coin. What's to stop SF vessels simply congregating around Moira assets and using the area of exclusion as a safe zone if we're ever in pursuit of them?


Well we have our own defense towers you know. If we need safe-zone's against Veto vessels surely our own fully-armed and operation staging towers are a better place to use than an enemy position bristling with unfriendly weaponry.

All we need to hear from you is that you will stop interfering in our military actions against Moira (which we consider to be an entirely justified response to their aggression against our vessels) and stand neutral in the specific instance of SF fighting Moira ships in space.

There is scant possibility (or need) that we'd somehow hide behind a shield of Moira against your random patrols. Details can be thrashed out and would likely involve an exclusion-zone around the Moira starbases to ensure non-interference pacts were agreed - but on those terms I believe I could take a proposal to the council of free captains and expect a positive result.

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.02 20:03:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Verone

There's a flip side to that coin. What's to stop SF vessels simply congregating around Moira assets and using the area of exclusion as a safe zone if we're ever in pursuit of them?


Well we have our own defense towers you know. If we need safe-zone's against Veto vessels surely our own fully-armed and operation staging towers are a better place to use than an enemy position bristling with unfriendly weaponry.

All we need to hear from you is that you will stop interfering in our military actions against Moira (which we consider to be an entirely justified response to their aggression against our vessels) and stand neutral in the specific instance of SF fighting Moira ships in space.

There is scant possibility (or need) that we'd somehow hide behind a shield of Moira against your random patrols. Details can be thrashed out and would likely involve an exclusion-zone around the Moira starbases to ensure non-interference pacts were agreed - but on those terms I believe I could take a proposal to the council of free captains and expect a positive result.



I'll give it some idle thought when I'm not involved with more pressing matters.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.02 20:10:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/06/2011 20:10:42

To catch up on some toasts and best wishes!

Originally by: Mammal Tafren
All petty squabbling aside, Eight years as a capsuleer constant is no mean feat.
Congratulations, Star Fraction.


Thank you monsieur Tafren, and respects in turn to your comrades and crews. We have been seeing something of each other in space these last weeks and I'm hopeful these good beginnings can flourish into an enduring and profitable friendship to come.

Darveses
Fantastulousification Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.02 22:50:00 - [164]
 

Cheers mates - rock on! YARRRR!!

Jesmine Kyriel
Amarr
House Kyriel Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.02 23:15:00 - [165]
 

Eight years is an achievement, regardless by whom.

I won't make any further comment for civility's sake.


Tyzzara
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.06.02 23:23:00 - [166]
 

/me salutes

*For all the past, present and especially future balls of fire that once were hulls intact passing through space... I salute you.


Congratulations! 8 years is a long time. There is no history like real history.

Cool Now... let's go make some more.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.03 11:19:00 - [167]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/06/2011 11:32:02

Originally by: Proxay
If only your actions/stratagem carried as much thought as your words. Paper tigers, cloaked in space.


Many great things have been achieved through cloak and cunning Proxay. If fighting against a foe who outnumbers you significantly then the ability to chose your time and place and action is very important. But really, this talk of "paper tigers" is rather premptive is it not? After all, we have achieved in the past weeks more disruption of Moira operations with 15-20 pilots in direct tower attacks than you achieved with 100 against ours. Surely the "paper tiger" is the outfit that roars loudly on the forums and then fails to make the impact it desires in space?

The context of our current war is that Moira Corporation CEO swore to drive Star Fraction from Placid and spoke of employing additional resources and strategies to achieve that. Thus far it is Moira who has suffered from this attempt while the Fraction continues our operations in the region.

One might say the "paper tiger" in this matter is the entity that promised "terrible consequences" if the Free Captains rejected Moira's surrender offer and arrived to roar its fury with 100billion isk worth of supercapitals/dreadnaughts to reinforce an outpost tower only to skip out on the reinforcement battle?

Objectively speaking surely you accept that is how it looks to a neutral bystander Proxay?


Joseph Sulaco
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.03 14:23:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
to reinforce an outpost tower only to skip out on the reinforcement battle?


So they shot your tower, let it go reinforced, then didn't show up a day later? Let me guess, you had your whole alliance ready to defend it as well? Sounds like a successful "RoteVeto" operation from what I have heard of this crew.

Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.06.03 15:09:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
...to reinforce an outpost tower only to skip out on the reinforcement battle?


CONCORD OOC censor applied. Zymurgist

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.06.03 15:17:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/06/2011 11:32:02

If fighting against a foe who outnumbers you significantly then the ability to chose your time and place and action is very important.





Ah, I see you have read Sun Tzu's Art of War


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.03 15:51:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Joseph Sulaco
So they shot your tower, let it go reinforced, then didn't show up a day later? Let me guess, you had your whole alliance ready to defend it as well? Sounds like a successful "RoteVeto" operation from what I have heard of this crew.


Well Monsieur Sulaco, since our "entire alliance" is about 1/5th the size of the multiple alliance group that reinforced the towers and our total exposure in repair was probably 2billion isk total - one does wonder at the motivation of putting 100billion+ at hazard in the first place. Successful? Well in terms of a "paper-tiger" threatening what it cannot deliver perhaps.

Maybe next time it will be more serious.

Tetsu Nakahama
Girochin Sha
Posted - 2011.06.03 15:55:00 - [172]
 

On behalf of the Girochin Sha, I wish to extend formal congratulations on reaching this milestone from a very young organization to one that is venerable by the standards of independent capsuleers. We are inspired by your example.

I would also like to take this opportunity to place on record the Girochin Sha's decision to consider the Star Fraction as kindred spirits and political allies in the cause of freedom.

Such transparency is important for our words to be clearly understood by all.

Tetsu Nakahama
Tokin, Girochin Sha

Biife Stuhe
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.03 18:48:00 - [173]
 

I join my fellow Free Captains in celebration of our legacy. I am proud to fly with you all.

May the next eight years be as extraordinary as the first.

Fly Free.

Biife

RuriHoshino
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.06.03 18:57:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Joseph Sulaco
Originally by: Jade Constantine
to reinforce an outpost tower only to skip out on the reinforcement battle?


So they shot your tower, let it go reinforced, then didn't show up a day later? Let me guess, you had your whole alliance ready to defend it as well? Sounds like a successful "RoteVeto" operation from what I have heard of this crew.


An unexpectedly long period of broad instability in the spacetime continuum of the universe prevented our pilots from boarding their ships during the time the tower came out of reinforcement. I'm told this affected all the capsuleers of New Eden in a similar manner, which is slightly comforting, but it's still hard not to feel cheated when such an unpredictable event renders all your planning moot.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.03 19:38:00 - [175]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/06/2011 19:39:01

Originally by: RuriHoshino
Originally by: Joseph Sulaco
Originally by: Jade Constantine
to reinforce an outpost tower only to skip out on the reinforcement battle?


So they shot your tower, let it go reinforced, then didn't show up a day later? Let me guess, you had your whole alliance ready to defend it as well? Sounds like a successful "RoteVeto" operation from what I have heard of this crew.


An unexpectedly long period of broad instability in the spacetime continuum of the universe prevented our pilots from boarding their ships during the time the tower came out of reinforcement. I'm told this affected all the capsuleers of New Eden in a similar manner, which is slightly comforting, but it's still hard not to feel cheated when such an unpredictable event renders all your planning moot.


Ironically this "broad instability in the spacetime continuum" (as you term it) had a similar impact on Cassini Division tower in Pelille causing it's shield status to remain at precisely 25% for around nine hours straight - forcing an emergency Fraction repping party of 20 shield logistics vessels to boost the shielding above 50% to replace the strontium supplies during a quite significant window of opportunity for continued Rote/Veto assault.

Consequently I don't believe it was your planning that was moot - rather your will to finish the job under less than optimum (ie 10 to 1 odds) circumstances.

Axen Vormar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.03 20:13:00 - [176]
 

Here's to another 8 years with my favourite bunch.

Nemesor
Gallente
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.06.03 21:55:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine


Consequently I don't believe it was your planning that was moot - rather your will to finish the job under less than optimum (ie 10 to 1 odds) circumstances.




The longer you bray, Jade.... the more you sound like Gorion Wassenar of TKI vintage.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.03 22:00:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Nemesor
Originally by: Jade Constantine


Consequently I don't believe it was your planning that was moot - rather your will to finish the job under less than optimum (ie 10 to 1 odds) circumstances.




The longer you bray, Jade.... the more you sound like Gorion Wassenar of TKI vintage.


Judging from your toothless forum whinging I thought you were auditioning for the role of Nikolai Nuvolari ...

Nemesor
Gallente
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.06.03 22:09:00 - [179]
 

toothless forum whinging...


I do not believe I have whinged once. Whether it be about being outnumbered, outgunned, picked on, insulted, slandered, fired upon without provocation, confused with Federal Loyalists, confused with State Loyalists, confused with Nihilists, confused with blood raiders or any other reason I can think of.

YOU my dear, have at one point or another have complained, whinged, cried, wailed, howled, bemoaned, cursed and whimpered at or about all of the above reasons at one time or another. In fact, I think that a goodly portion of the summit has to be dedicated to storing the sheer amount of bellyaching, you have disgorged over the years.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.03 22:12:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Nemesor
I do not believe I have whinged once.


From start to finish in this thread you have done nothing but cry, complain, bellyache and make excuses for your inability to progress a feud that has come to dominate your every waking moment and fertile fever-dreams. And still you can't give it up. Really "Nemesor" the time for you to believe you can talk your enemies out of existence is long past. Bring the fight in space or simply go away you pathetic little man.



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