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Aelius
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Dark Matter Coalition
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:10:00 - [1]
 

As it been announced Aurums are coming. (1 PLEX = XXX Aurums).

PLEXes nowadays are mainly used to "play for free" or "play for ISK", or "I have loads of RL money and i want ISK to play Internet spaceships BIG". In this case one hand washes the other.

The RL "poor" player needs to spend some game time doing "EVE work" (mine, gas, rat, etc) to make ISK to pay for PLEX and to pay for some ships to play with.

The RL "rich" player can't be bothered with the "EVE work" (mine,gas,rat,etc) so he converts RL money directly to ISK.



Somewhere there is a balance that keeps PLEX at a certain ISK price, BUT that balance is about to shift. As you might notice PLEX price as risen and it will continue to rise this is a possible outcome scenario:

-"Poor" players start leaving EVE because the amount of "EVE work" to buy a PLEX is simply too much to enjoy the game, some will simply change back to monthly fee. But many will surely leave EVE.

-As RL PLEX price does not change it means "rich" players receive even more ISK for their Euros/Dollars and thus needing to sell less PLEXes to achieve their ISK target, thus making the PLEX isk price to climb even more.

Eventually hordes of players will start to leave or changing to a subscription fee (those who can), the ones who can't will leave making EVE "smaller" by big numbers in a short/medium period of time.

CCP needs to be ready for this. Ready to lose thousands of players who "play for free", and the PLEX market won't correct it self in time to have them return.

This won't be the end of EVE-Online, but it will be weaken seriously by it. The question is:

Is CCP considering this possible outcome of being tampering with the PLEX system beyond it's original design? Because you (CCP) know that the player numbers you have right now, you owe it in part to "free play" players created by the PLEX. If the PLEX system "dies" by overgrowing beyond its possibilities, a part of EVE's player base will "die" too.

Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:29:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36
For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games and those that simply refuses to fork out cash are just being cheap.

For those who can afford it, but other payment methods are not accessible, I feel for you. Other then that, I don't see a problem with increasing PLEX prices.

Edit - As for increasing PLEX prices, yea it'll probably affect subscriptions, but I'd suspect most of them would be Alt accounts anyway.

Kronir
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:31:00 - [3]
 

I too am wondering about this.

Unfortunatly the topic has been derailed by people talking about micro-transactions, which is a side-issue - but not really the issue itself (as such).

I foresee trouble with PLEX. Unless CCP have planned for PLEX price increases.

I'm not sure what is going on really. PI has tanked in value, minerals aren't what they used to be. It seems to me that the value of ISK has been devalued greatly...and quite intentionally...


Barakkus
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:36:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kronir

I foresee trouble with PLEX. Unless CCP have planned for PLEX price increases.



They stated in a few places that they will deal with the plex market if it gets out of control, didn't say how though.

Kronir
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:37:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Barakkus

They stated in a few places that they will deal with the plex market if it gets out of control, didn't say how though.


I noticed that. Though it depends on their defintion of 'out of control'. It may be very different to the players definition.

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:42:00 - [6]
 

You know, there was a time when the PLEX system did not exist, yet many "poor" players played and their numbers grew. You should think about that.

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:46:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu

My PLEX prices!

If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX.

Kronir
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:47:00 - [8]
 

Yeah - but those times aren't now. Things change, sometimes for the good sometimes not.

I have faith in CCP they have done good by Eve all these years. But there is a massive shift in the game market that is about to occur. My question is this; how much of it is a natural player driven shift, had how much of it is social engineering on CCPs part?

Terghon Tu
Amarr
DarkNet Node Fanaticus
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:49:00 - [9]
 

Actually, Aurum could lower PLEX prices. Remember, you cannot buy one PLEX for real money; you buy a GTC which gives you two PLEX. So, if people with real money buy GTC for PLEX, convert one PLEX to Aurum for clothes and put the other on the market the supply could increase, dropping the price.

I'm not expecting that, but it is a reasonable possibility.

Rico Minali
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:54:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Stella SGP
Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36
For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games .


Really? I work 42 hours a week across 4 days, my wife works the other 3, we have 2 kids and cant afford chilcare so one of us needs to be home all the time. We have a mortgage and debts, I can't afford to pay for two accounts so I pay with plex, I am ceo of a pvp corp so as you can imagine dont get a huge amnount of time to make isk. Up till now I have managed, but if plex goes higher than it is now, one account will go. If it turns out to be too expensive even with one account then possibly Ill think about quitting.

Dont assume that people who cant pay for the game with cash are jobless or lazy...

Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:57:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Kronir
Yeah - but those times aren't now. Things change, sometimes for the good sometimes not.

I have faith in CCP they have done good by Eve all these years. But there is a massive shift in the game market that is about to occur. My question is this; how much of it is a natural player driven shift, had how much of it is social engineering on CCPs part?


I think you worry too much. If nothing extreme were to happen, PLEX prices pretty much balances itself. If PLEX prices goes up, wouldn't it encourage more people start buying ISK through PLEX?

Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:57:00 - [12]
 

Dollah Dollah Bill Ya'll!

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:59:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: heheheh on 01/06/2011
^ ya, cash rules everthing around me.
I earn enough to pay for several accounts, but if i can play a game for free without having to use my hard earned pennies i will.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:00:00 - [14]
 

I hope plex prices hit 1b isk Very Happy

MysteryZ
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:04:00 - [15]
 

What can CCP do about it without hurting their own profits?

They can't seed plex on the market - every person who bought one from them would be costing them $15.

The only accounts CCP needs to worry about being cancelled are the ones actually paying to play - and right now, the market is in their favour because with PLEX prices on the increase, it means more ISK in the hands of their paying customers.

The accounts that use PLEX to play inflate the PLEX prices, should some of them cancel - then thats good for the PLEX players because demand will fall, and PLEX prices with them.

Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:07:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Stella SGP on 01/06/2011 00:13:20
Originally by: Rico Minali
Originally by: Stella SGP
Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36
For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games .


Really? I work 42 hours a week across 4 days, my wife works the other 3, we have 2 kids and cant afford chilcare so one of us needs to be home all the time. We have a mortgage and debts, I can't afford to pay for two accounts so I pay with plex, I am ceo of a pvp corp so as you can imagine dont get a huge amnount of time to make isk. Up till now I have managed, but if plex goes higher than it is now, one account will go. If it turns out to be too expensive even with one account then possibly Ill think about quitting.

Dont assume that people who cant pay for the game with cash are jobless or lazy...


Let's assume you are paid a decent amount doing a decent job all you need is 1 hour more a week to pay for 2 accounts, 4 hours a month as compared to how many hours you require to grind the ISK?

Also a 42 hours work week is really average, when I started working, most companies operated on 5.5 days work week, thats 44 hours a week and its normal.

Anyway I didn't say those who can't afford were lazy or jobless, I just said they shouldn't be spending time on games and implying that they should get their priorities straighten out. Which is more important, feeding the kids or internet spaceships?

Sandwich PvP
Furian Necromongers
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:34:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Rico Minali
Originally by: Stella SGP
Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36
For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games .


Really? I work 42 hours a week across 4 days, my wife works the other 3, we have 2 kids and cant afford chilcare so one of us needs to be home all the time. We have a mortgage and debts, I can't afford to pay for two accounts so I pay with plex, I am ceo of a pvp corp so as you can imagine dont get a huge amnount of time to make isk. Up till now I have managed, but if plex goes higher than it is now, one account will go. If it turns out to be too expensive even with one account then possibly Ill think about quitting.

Dont assume that people who cant pay for the game with cash are jobless or lazy...


Yes, but you aren't a paying CCP customer, so why would they care about your situation? Cool

Orlacc
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:38:00 - [18]
 

PLEX is going way up because of speculation. It will come back down, but probably after Incarana. In fact I wager it will drop dramatically.

Doc Fury
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:43:00 - [19]
 

How exactly would CCP meddling with the in-game price of PLEX be good for our "sandbox" and the "player driven economy"?

Even though they have vaguely danced around the term "equilibrium" CCP getting involved beyond monitoring and reporting "Hey guys PLEX prices are through the roof now!" kind of contradicts their policy on non-intervention.








Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:50:00 - [20]
 

It will find it's own balance.

If the ISK price for PLEX goes to high, demand will drop. If demand drops the ISK price for PLEX will lower.

It is a self-correcting situation.

StillBorn CrackBaby
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:50:00 - [21]
 

Personally if I had a business offering a product, customers who want service for no cash aren't the customers I want. I'd tell them to go elsewhere... Cheap buggers. No one has the "right" to play EVE, either pay up or get out...

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:52:00 - [22]
 

As I've explained in my normal talk-about-most-possible-sides-of-an issue-before-drawing-partial-conclusions sort of way:

I think that they know that their maximum revenue and highest average customer satisfaction comes with a plex price in the 300 to 400 million isk range...probably closes to the middle today...that might have been 320 milion ideal a year ago (jarring spike though with the apochrapha expansion)300 miliion 2 years ago.. and maybe will be 385 next year (and there should be a swing 25 million either way of the center price to keep things interesting imo, but others might argue with that).

Too high, and they probably might actually sell less as many people meet their needs selling fewer plex(especially those makeing huge purchases), outweighing slightly the extra buyers because of the better deal.

To low, and they lose revenue and let the fire of the RMT spark up as the time to dollar ratio of the RMT becomes more attractive...and they can offer a greater differential between legitimate plex sales and still do so very profitably.

They are in a slight bind becaue it makes sense to give all players a chance at buying the items that they're moving to micro transactions for... it makes those itemes availbe to those that grind or scam or pirate in addition to those using $.

As they've been complaining about needing more isk sinks, especially to entice isk away from isk rich players, I'd think that a direct sale of goods by npcs at a fixed isk price alternative would be more useful than the aurum model. Ideally they'd mix and match with some items aurum only and some isk only to allow them to fine tune the plex rate balance while still having their isk sink.

Mr Dilkington
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:53:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Mr Dilkington on 01/06/2011 00:53:53
Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby
Personally if I had a business offering a product, customers who want service for no cash aren't the customers I want. I'd tell them to go elsewhere... Cheap buggers. No one has the "right" to play EVE, either pay up or get out...


What about if you had a business where people pay for services for other people ?
because thats is what is happening here, Razz

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:00:00 - [24]
 

PLEX prices will self-correct.

If prices are rising, it likely means more players are entering the game, thus the demand for PLEX has risen.

As the price rises, these so-called "rich" players will buy more PLEX hoping to make more ISK than is usual. As more PLEX enters the market, the supply will grow and prices will fall.

PLEX, like any commodity, rise and falls, and is cyclical in nature.

raney ilara
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:01:00 - [25]
 

I can understand that the banning of thousands of bots might have something to do with a drop in the demand for plex on the eve market..but this makes no sense; shouldn't that be reducing the price of plex?

Unless someone is seriously gaming the system, what could be driving prices. Summer vacation hasn't even started yet. Maybe all the former botters have taken their ill gotten gain and are buying up plex for resale since they can't mine anymore.


Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:03:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby
Personally if I had a business offering a product, customers who want service for no cash aren't the customers I want. I'd tell them to go elsewhere... Cheap buggers. No one has the "right" to play EVE, either pay up or get out...

Someone doesn't understand how PLEX works.

No one plays for "free". Every PLEX was paid for by someone. CCP loses no money in the whole scheme. It was a genius implementation on their part.

Shieko Chan
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:04:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
I hope plex prices hit 1b isk Very Happy


I'll bet you do.

nubile slave
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:19:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
It will find it's own balance.

If the ISK price for PLEX goes to high, demand will drop. If demand drops the ISK price for PLEX will lower.

It is a self-correcting situation.



Clearly you don't understand the addiction. Addicts will pay any price. I'm thinking we have a lot of addicts in this game. Very Happy

Surprise Cockfags
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:26:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Stella SGP
Edited by: Stella SGP on 01/06/2011 00:13:20
Originally by: Rico Minali
Originally by: Stella SGP
Edited by: Stella SGP on 31/05/2011 23:36:36
For people who struggles with $15 a month, they really shouldn't be spending their time on any games .


Really? I work 42 hours a week across 4 days, my wife works the other 3, we have 2 kids and cant afford chilcare so one of us needs to be home all the time. We have a mortgage and debts, I can't afford to pay for two accounts so I pay with plex, I am ceo of a pvp corp so as you can imagine dont get a huge amnount of time to make isk. Up till now I have managed, but if plex goes higher than it is now, one account will go. If it turns out to be too expensive even with one account then possibly Ill think about quitting.

Dont assume that people who cant pay for the game with cash are jobless or lazy...


Let's assume you are paid a decent amount doing a decent job all you need is 1 hour more a week to pay for 2 accounts, 4 hours a month as compared to how many hours you require to grind the ISK?

Also a 42 hours work week is really average, when I started working, most companies operated on 5.5 days work week, thats 44 hours a week and its normal.

Anyway I didn't say those who can't afford were lazy or jobless, I just said they shouldn't be spending time on games and implying that they should get their priorities straighten out. Which is more important, feeding the kids or internet spaceships?


Wow I wish I could live in ignorant oblivion like you. So I guess a college student who spends what little money they have on rent, phone, books, tuition, food and supplies so they have to rely on a plex to play this game doesn't have their priorities straight?

You're a prime example of what is wrong with the culture in this game. It's full of self-righteous, self-centered, egotistical pricks like yourself. Get off your horse and come back to reality.

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:29:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Aelius
As it been announced Aurums are coming. (1 PLEX = XXX Aurums).

PLEXes nowadays are mainly used to "play for free" or "play for ISK", or "I have loads of RL money and i want ISK to play Internet spaceships BIG". In this case one hand washes the other.

The RL "poor" player needs to spend some game time doing "EVE work" (mine, gas, rat, etc) to make ISK to pay for PLEX and to pay for some ships to play with.

The RL "rich" player can't be bothered with the "EVE work" (mine,gas,rat,etc) so he converts RL money directly to ISK.



Somewhere there is a balance that keeps PLEX at a certain ISK price, BUT that balance is about to shift. As you might notice PLEX price as risen and it will continue to rise this is a possible outcome scenario:

-"Poor" players start leaving EVE because the amount of "EVE work" to buy a PLEX is simply too much to enjoy the game, some will simply change back to monthly fee. But many will surely leave EVE.

-As RL PLEX price does not change it means "rich" players receive even more ISK for their Euros/Dollars and thus needing to sell less PLEXes to achieve their ISK target, thus making the PLEX isk price to climb even more.

Eventually hordes of players will start to leave or changing to a subscription fee (those who can), the ones who can't will leave making EVE "smaller" by big numbers in a short/medium period of time.

CCP needs to be ready for this. Ready to lose thousands of players who "play for free", and the PLEX market won't correct it self in time to have them return.

This won't be the end of EVE-Online, but it will be weaken seriously by it. The question is:

Is CCP considering this possible outcome of being tampering with the PLEX system beyond it's original design? Because you (CCP) know that the player numbers you have right now, you owe it in part to "free play" players created by the PLEX. If the PLEX system "dies" by overgrowing beyond its possibilities, a part of EVE's player base will "die" too.


This does not apply to everyone, "Eve work" as you put it, is "having fun playing a game" for alot of people.


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