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blankseplocked Is CCP going to reassign devs to the spaceship game in December?
 
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Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
Posted - 2011.06.08 06:30:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Anyways, I'm sure the TQ release will help show that much more effectively than posts like this telling it.


I'm sure, if it has these amazing developments called Windows, which we can look out of to see if there are enemy ships nearby. We'll be able to do that, right?

Right?

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.08 06:58:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 08/06/2011 07:02:56
Originally by: Soden Rah
*snip*

Also those of us actually testing it could really use some of the better feedback you said you would work on in the 'devs answer every question' thread.
A thread detailing what your changing build to build, what in particular has changed that needs testing, what feedback you have seen that you liked, what you don't. Are you considering revising your choice of replacing the old hanger view, if not why not... ect

We are currently talking to a wall, which as you repeatedly ask for feedback is pretty bad form.

The current build has moved from Duality to SiSi, and undergone 3~4 iterations without a peep from you as to what's going on, there are hosts of threads asking questions and posting feedback with utterly no response, and it launches in less than 14 days.

You said you were going to work on this, to live up to that you have to post at least every new test build saying what's going on, what known issues there are, what things have changed and what hasn't, as well as something to address the feedback and questions people have given.

It may be hard, it may be time consuming, but it will greatly improve goodwill, and the quality of feedback you get.

It needs to be a conversation, at the moment it isn't.

*snap*


sadly this^^^

CCP, you still suck at interaction with your guinea pigs.
If a team puts up stuff to be tested on Sisi and they want feedback, then they have to care for those testers. At the moment those teams and the whole test-feedback-bugreport-shenanigan sucks big donkey balls just because of that.
The only guys that somewhat care are the mass-testers. And even they slacked lately with their reports on what was going on and how it went.

How hard can it be for a member or the leader of a team to have a look at those threads there once a day and leave one or two comments?
How hard is that CCP?
Really.. I wonder.. there are people who test this stuff for you for hours on end, provide bug reports and feedback, and all they get is.. a big black hole of silence.

You want feedback, fine. We want feedback on our feedback, do it you slackers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.08 07:08:00 - [63]
 

In some cases it's just hubris and narcasim proclude them from taking on feedback from users.

HR has put some real sociopaths in control of the teams and they block out anything which isn't their own idea.

It is only after release when the 50 page feedback thread turns into 50 page complaints thread that upper management lights a fire under them and their attitude shifts.

Eyup Mi'duck
Posted - 2011.06.08 07:35:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Miilla
So we all leave eve, it loses its customers and dies, and we all play warewolves.

Fine by me, Eve dies.


Rolling Eyes

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.06.08 09:43:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 08/06/2011 09:49:48
The "spaceship part" of Eve still has a lot of issues. Many of them have several years on their back. Some of them are even haunting players since the game was launched.

Showstoppers on the UI, borked sound, shortcomings of UI layout, some ship/weapon balancing, the RSI inducing PI, factional warfare, etc etc... etc. When work on these issues is postponed because CCP is allocating resources that could go into fixing these things to Incarna, then that is never good. Sorry.

Of course there needs to be a balance between raising product quality ie working on improving the existing content versus adding new content. CCP doesn't have an infinite amount of resources. We understand. In my opinion, however, that balance doesn't work out right now. This can be proven by simply looking at the sound engine, for example. It's been f*ed for years. Nothing has been done to fix it. It's absurd.

Please, CCP, with all due respect for the stuff you're trying hard to put out, do not forget that your game has a lot of problems which exist since way too long and you need to start fixing these problems.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.08 10:24:00 - [66]
 

Just wanted to drop a thanks to CCP Dropbear for coming into the thread and joining in the dialogue with a substantive post. Very Happy

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.06.08 10:30:00 - [67]
 

RE: Dropbear

Your view of what Incarna will add to Flying in Space is surprisingly obtuse. You're saying that because Incarna "may" thrust old content at you like Angels Epic arcs, this somehow improves your experience of those epic arcs and Eve as a result. What about people who don't care about those epic arcs, or have already done them?

First - in the first release of Incarna will we have those arcs advertised as you say?

I suspect not, because like most of Eve you're talking about a potential feature and us customers are now wise enough thanks to Faction Warfare and many other aspects (renting Concord Billboards was a similar idea binned long ago that was in the same vein) to know YOU DON'T REACH EVE'S FULL POTENTIAL mainly due to moving onto something else rather than fully iterating what you added in the first place.

Why should we believe Incarna will be different?

Even if you do have a truckload of Devs developing Incarna for the next 3 or 4 releases, then you expect us to believe this will also somehow magically fix and improve (iterate) on the FiS aspects? Nonsense.

I'm still waiting for the Cosmos 2.0 "archeology" and mini-professions rework we were promised all those years ago. You see maybe not you Dropbear, but definitely the marketing induced schpiel has dramatically ramped up from CCP over the years with slick video and promises of a much improved gameplay experience, and realisticly the game used to be improved a lot more each expansion before any slick videos were made.

Incarna is a complete deviation of development from the spaceships game, and what you're talking about adds nothing to the "player driven" content of eve does it? Playing dress up on my character was never something that interested me - I was happy enough with my old portrait as immersion enough into this spaceships game.

Somehow you expect us to buy that your "World of Darkness" pilot test is somehow spaceships game related because you now say "oh we always intended on making a sci-fi simulator"? Rubbish.

Spend ALL your time developing the OLD spaceships game for a change. Achieve some of the potential for things like dead-horse starbases, tech 3, fleet formations, Faction war, Sovreignty mechanics, corporation and alliance improvements, low-sec, mining and even PI etc etc etc and us old spaceship game players might stop quitting.

Rolare
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.08 11:07:00 - [68]
 

Funny how no one mentions Incursion... oh wait, it works. So... doesn't exist >,>

Also, for all them people who wants a say in the development (and are very insisting on it) of EVE, please do become an investor (I'm not really sure if that's possible, but there's enough accusations of CCP becoming money-greedy and only catering to their investors).

Y'know, CCP wants a spacesim, not a space ship game. Incarna fits well with that, and I don't see anyone complain about how Incursion took away resources from fixing stuff (anymore atleast).

And yes I know, it adds content, it gives people something to do and it's gives PvE some more features. What about those who doesn't care? I don't do Incursion (will do in time, don't worry) and all those resources were used instead of fixing whatever issue I think is important :l

Alissa Solette
Posted - 2011.06.08 11:38:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Anddeh McNab
Although I'm interested to see what the missions team got up to as the sum of their 12 months work can't have been "lets get rid of Agent Quality".


It's really "cerebral" and "innovative" - just like mining. You talk to this lacklustre portrait of some agent or quest giver person, he shows you a screen with some boring generic text that nobody reads, you click accept, undock, warp to mission, CTRL+click all the little red crosses on overview, press F1, rinse and repeat until red crosses are gone, re-dock, rinse and repeat from the top.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.06.08 11:39:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Rolare
Funny how no one mentions Incursion... oh wait, it works. So... doesn't exist >,>

Also, for all them people who wants a say in the development (and are very insisting on it) of EVE, please do become an investor (I'm not really sure if that's possible, but there's enough accusations of CCP becoming money-greedy and only catering to their investors).

Y'know, CCP wants a spacesim, not a space ship game. Incarna fits well with that, and I don't see anyone complain about how Incursion took away resources from fixing stuff (anymore atleast).

And yes I know, it adds content, it gives people something to do and it's gives PvE some more features. What about those who doesn't care? I don't do Incursion (will do in time, don't worry) and all those resources were used instead of fixing whatever issue I think is important :l


You fail to realize that Incursions actually add to the FiS aspect aswell as the core of the game. WiS does not and is really just fluff for CCP to attract people from outside genres into the game aswell as a place for them to try and market micro transactions. The issue that most have I believe, is not the actual introduction of WiS but its more the neglect of the FiS part. Which has been going downhill for sometime now.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2011.06.08 15:30:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Cearain on 08/06/2011 15:32:14
I know I canít speak for everyone nor do I try to.

I will say that figuring out tactics and fits for ships for solo and small gang roams and pvping other solo or small gangs was challenging and fantastic fun. Developing these tactics and fits is something that I grew to love. But I reached the conclusion about 3 or 4 months ago that it simply takes too long in the game to find small scale engagements where your ship fit or piloting skill mattered.

I have also reached the conclusion that many at CCP seem unaware that this is even a problem. Many of the players actually seem to think itís impossible for ccp to create mechanics that quickly lead to lots quality small gang pvp.

FW plexing is the obvious answer for people of who think like me. But plexing is broken and abandoned. Many at CCP seem to think this style of play is just a stepping stone to null sec. Well itís not. Iím not interested in null sec. I see nothing else that is even remotely likely to satisfy my craving for consistent, quality, small gang or solo pvp like fixing the plexing mechanic in fw.

I will never be able to commit the time to the game that is required for null sec. I canít be ďon callĒ 23.5/7 or risk losing everything I built up like alliances do when their space is taken. It took me a long time to grind the isk I have and its unlikely I will ever do that again. Nor do I really want to be beholden to anyone in a game where I am immortal. Finally I do not have the time to spend socializing or developing friendships in eve. I will always be someone who can just play a fun computer game every so often.

My main sub is going to expire in about a day. I played this awesome game for about 2 years and really enjoyed it. I have no regrets for the time spent, as on the whole, I had a blast! I will play again when CCP creates a way to have enjoyable solo/small gang pvp on a somewhat reasonable basis. Say 3-5 quality small gang fights per hour of play. Right now I just donít know if that will be in a year or 3 years.

Again FW seems the obvious answer but it is impossible that anything can go forward in this regard unless some devs are assigned to this. Currently we donít know where the plexes are being taken (so hide and seek plexing is the best method of doing them) and the rats can be a real deterrent to pvp.


I was willing to wait the 18 months (and I truly appreciated the honesty) but now if that 18 months is going to be an illusion, itís time to cut bait.

I appreciate the response from CCP Dropbear. That sounds like it will make the game more fun for many new players. But from here on out I will likely only do pve for isk so I can pvp. Therefore, I will likely check out 3rd parties websites to find out how to maximize the isk when I do them and not spend time walking around stations hoping to stumble on the right people. When I find in game agents I will likely quickly skip through whatever dialogue is offered so I can get out and make the isk. Again thatís just me, I donít mean to suggest I am speaking for everyone.

And BTW I mentioned incursions and pointed out that (although I have no interest in more pve) they seem to have done a good job especially considering the small number of devs assigned to it.



Katrina Cortez
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:05:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Katrina Cortez on 08/06/2011 16:44:45
Originally by: Aquana Abyss

YOU DON'T REACH EVE'S FULL POTENTIAL mainly due to moving onto something else rather than fully iterating what you added in the first place.

definitely the marketing induced schpiel has dramatically ramped up from CCP over the years with slick video and promises of a much improved gameplay experience, and realisticly the game used to be improved a lot more each expansion before any slick videos were made.



Amen...
CCP could spend the next 2 years making the things already in game good. The foundation for something great has already been laid but instead we get just a glimpse of what it could be.
Maybe CCP should consider making Eve a browser game... and dont tell me it cant be done.
Deepolis

Katrina Cortez
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:27:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Cearain
I will play again when CCP creates a way to have enjoyable solo/small gang pvp on a somewhat reasonable basis. Say 3-5 quality small gang fights per hour of play. Right now I just donít know if that will be in a year or 3 years.


I agree with most of your post but you have to see that 3-5 fights in one hour is completely unrealistic just from fight time alone. 3x 15min is 45 min just in itself...

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:43:00 - [74]
 

Welcome to small gang/solo pvp. See RvB and Sisi FFAs.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:44:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Katrina Cortez
Originally by: Cearain
I will play again when CCP creates a way to have enjoyable solo/small gang pvp on a somewhat reasonable basis. Say 3-5 quality small gang fights per hour of play. Right now I just donít know if that will be in a year or 3 years.


I agree with most of your post but you have to see that 3-5 fights in one hour is completely unrealistic just from fight time alone. 3x 15min is 45 min just in itself...


Most of my small gang fights don't last 15 minutes. Usually they are done in 4 minutes or under. Although I did fight a crazy tanked merlin that took a long time and sometimes those ecm drones can keep the fight going, but 15 minutes for a fight would be really unusual for the fights Iím talking about 5 or less ships per side.

I think if they did the plexing system right for fw you would constantly be going from one plex fight to another fighting others from sign on to sign off. Here is a link to what I think would bring about that sort of intense nonstop yet quality pvp:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1

Think about the objections and the responses to them. Iím fairly convinced it would work.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:52:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Daneel Trevize
Welcome to small gang/solo pvp. See RvB and Sisi FFAs.


I did rvb and it was a blast. But I don't want the fights to be prearranged arena style things. I think if CCP assigned some devs to the task they could develop mechanics in FW that would yield the same fast paced action rvb delivers without requiring the players to stage the fights.

Again see my sig for one way they could do that. The thing is they need to set aside the devs. I know CCP Soundwave once said he would like to work on FW. I think he worked on incursions and considering they only had like 7 people working on it they did an awesome job.

I know that if CCP really focused on the objective of getting quality pvp fast for players they could accomplish it through the fw plexing mechanics.


Katrina Cortez
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:58:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Katrina Cortez on 08/06/2011 16:59:54
Originally by: Cearain

Most of my small gang fights don't last 15 minutes. Usually they are done in 4 minutes or under. Although I did fight a crazy tanked merlin that took a long time and sometimes those ecm drones can keep the fight going, but 15 minutes for a fight would be really unusual for the fights Iím talking about 5 or less ships per side.




Well in reality, as much as you may want it to be, Eve is not that type of game. It is more of a strategy board game with pretty pictures. From the sounds of it maybe Star Trek online would be more to your liking. There are 5 vs 5 pvp matches all the time, you dont have to grind for money, and you can casually max out a character in about a month. Shield facings make you fly defensively, weapon arcs make you fly offensively... the combat system is much faster paced and interesting.


Katrina Cortez
Posted - 2011.06.08 17:20:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Katrina Cortez on 08/06/2011 17:31:19
ACE online has an outstanding model of FW...
A strategic point spawns and both sides are alerted.
Each faction starts deploying to capture / guard gates and the strategic spawn point.
Winning side gets a bonus / prize.
Some battles are fought over access to game content... a special map and strategically located base.

Each side gets "killmarks" for killing enemy faction ships which can be used to purchase items. kinda like an lp store.

I played it for about a year... then they went to the pay to win slot machine model and i quit.

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2011.06.08 18:19:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
We are achieving some significant victories for "flying in space" content by working on Incarna. Yes, it seems counter intuitive to say so, but just look at the above example.
I'm interested in Incarna because I know it means the World of Darkness game is that much closer. Very Happy

Haters gonna hate, Dropbear, can't do much about that. I think that people are disappointed because of so many long-standing issues with the spaceship part of the game, and also because right now they're just getting the Captain's Quarters instead of "Wow there's an entire city inside of this station!" And, you know as well as I do that unhappy people scream a lot louder than the content ones.

Me, I think it's cool that the Walking In Stations that I've heard was coming Soon(tm) since 2006 is actually going to be here. I know that what is being released now is just the foundation for a LOT of cool new content in the future.

All I ask is that this feature isn't abandoned once released like so many others. So many things are released in a basic state, and that's fine, but then they forever remain a shadow of what they could be.

As far as I'm concerned, Incarna is not finished until I can have a pet Slaver Hound glaring at the Minmatar slave that I keep in a cage in the corner of my CQ, and every time the slave whimpers for food I can stab him with a cattle prod. ugh

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.09 02:05:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Aquana Abyss
I suspect not, because like most of Eve you're talking about a potential feature and us customers are now wise enough thanks to Faction Warfare and many other aspects (renting Concord Billboards was a similar idea binned long ago that was in the same vein) to know YOU DON'T REACH EVE'S FULL POTENTIAL mainly due to moving onto something else rather than fully iterating what you added in the first place.

Why should we believe Incarna will be different?



truth

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.09 08:14:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Cearain
FW plexing is the obvious answer for people of who think like me. But plexing is broken and abandoned. Many at CCP seem to think this style of play is just a stepping stone to null sec. Well itís not. Iím not interested in null sec. I see nothing else that is even remotely likely to satisfy my craving for consistent, quality, small gang or solo pvp like fixing the plexing mechanic in fw.



Crux of the biscuit is in the apostrophe!


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