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Domitianus Fury
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.05.31 10:43:00 - [1]
 

As we all know, capturing slaves from beyond Imperial borders is illegal and our blessed Empress in her divine judgement has enacted the emancipation. What of slaves who have escaped, been stolen or absconded and are now beyond the borders of the Empire? Should they be located and returned to their masters?

What of an escaped slave's decendants? There are three options I have thought of, but which is the most appropriate?

1. Let them be? Are they no longer within the Empire's jurisdiction?

2. Should they be enslaved and the number of generations their bloodline has spent outside the Empire be taken into account for their emancipation?

3. Should they be taken into slavery and since their bloodline has not received proper indemnification and loving spiritual guidance, should the clock on their generations of slavery effectively be restarted from the moment of their ancestor's escape?

As one who makes a living and feels the spiritual benefit of tracking down escaped slaves, this matter is of high importance to myself and others in this profession. For we would never wish to violate the laws of God and Empire.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.31 10:53:00 - [2]
 

It depends upon a number of factors including the wishes of the slave's owner, but in general I would say that if you simply allow escaped slaves to go free then you are simply encouraging more slaves to rebel.

Niraia
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.05.31 13:22:00 - [3]
 

Maybe you should change your profession to punishing masters who are dumb enough to let their slaves escape. You'd still solve the problem, it'd be easier to accomplish, and you wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this.

Uzek Pillai
Wrath of Khanid
Posted - 2011.05.31 14:31:00 - [4]
 

M'lord, if someone of so lowly a birth as I might make a suggestion, perhaps something for you to consider... do you ever stop to wonder why the slave escaped in the first place?

Many Holders, m'lord, it seems, have lost sight of the True purpose of the Reclaiming, and it is not what it has become. A slave that runs away certainly is not doing so because she or he is being well cared for, well treated, and receiving a proper spiritual education, do they, m'lord?

Should not the abusive acts of holders who compel their slaves to run away be the focus of investigation, m'lord? Are those enslaved, no longer enslaved for spiritual enlightenment, but, perhaps, for economic, selfish, or even sadistic reasons?

No, of course.... forgive me for that last part.

You must surely know better than I.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:30:00 - [5]
 

I would suggest first that if slavery is to be continued within the Empire, that it be restored to the original purpose for its institution. Even conservative, traditional Amarrians recognize that, in many cases, slaves are not being educated and cared for as they were originally meant to be.

Take into account the Elder Invasion and the Matari Rebellion. If these people were being shown the truth of God's Word and being educated and enlightened in a manner that maintained their value as humans and creations of God, then they would have had very little reason to rebel - and even less to rebel violently.

Deal with the improper treatment of the slaves the Empire already has first. Instruct Holders to live their lives according to righteousness, to demonstrate that with not just word but action. Remind them that education and enlightenment are key factors in the upbringing and keeping of slaves, that instructing slaves in the ways of righteousness in order to bring them closer to God is what slavery was originally intended for within the Empire.

Considering slaves to be "non-humans" or "lesser humans" will taint our viewpoint of God's creations and deter us from walking a righteous path. The practice of slavery, while it may have originally been intended to fulfill God's work and elevate people to their place with God, has been malpracticed, abused and profaned for centuries.

It is time to evaluate where the Empire stands and just how righteous we are. Let us first examine ourselves and our walk before God and then look outside our borders.

Katrin Ameri
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.31 16:54:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Katrin Ameri on 31/05/2011 18:16:42
Originally by: Niraia
Maybe you should change your profession to punishing masters who are dumb enough to let their slaves escape. You'd still solve the problem, it'd be easier to accomplish, and you wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this.


I would have to agree with my honourable peer. If the master is so mentally handicapped as to let their slaves escape then maybe it is they who should be punished. One should retain their slave at any cost. If there is even the slightest hint of desertion then punishment must be handed down to the slaves in order to set an example of what will happen if they do.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:25:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Raze Valadeus
I would suggest first that if slavery is to be continued within the Empire, that it be restored to the original purpose for its institution. Even conservative, traditional Amarrians recognize that, in many cases, slaves are not being educated and cared for as they were originally meant to be.

Take into account the Elder Invasion and the Matari Rebellion. If these people were being shown the truth of God's Word and being educated and enlightened in a manner that maintained their value as humans and creations of God, then they would have had very little reason to rebel - and even less to rebel violently.

Deal with the improper treatment of the slaves the Empire already has first. Instruct Holders to live their lives according to righteousness, to demonstrate that with not just word but action. Remind them that education and enlightenment are key factors in the upbringing and keeping of slaves, that instructing slaves in the ways of righteousness in order to bring them closer to God is what slavery was originally intended for within the Empire.

Considering slaves to be "non-humans" or "lesser humans" will taint our viewpoint of God's creations and deter us from walking a righteous path. The practice of slavery, while it may have originally been intended to fulfill God's work and elevate people to their place with God, has been malpracticed, abused and profaned for centuries.

It is time to evaluate where the Empire stands and just how righteous we are. Let us first examine ourselves and our walk before God and then look outside our borders.


You will need more than education, even if it is always the best tool to be sure that people actually do not breach the law. But laws barely exist here, and the only one we have is Heideran's decree.

Though we might miss the essence of the issue here. Slavery in itself, maybe. I have yet to find any reference to slavery in the core dogma of the Scriptures. It is mentionned countless times when the author is refering to the amarrian culture through ages, but I still have seen nothing about slavery in the core ideology.

Babs Johnson
Unknown Soldiers
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:30:00 - [8]
 

Oh how cute. Racists trying to be intellectual.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:33:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Raze Valadeus on 31/05/2011 17:35:38
Originally by: Lyn Farel

Though we might miss the essence of the issue here. Slavery in itself, maybe. I have yet to find any reference to slavery in the core dogma of the Scriptures. It is mentionned countless times when the author is refering to the amarrian culture through ages, but I still have seen nothing about slavery in the core ideology.


You are not alone in this assessment.

Here you will find a similar discussion.

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:42:00 - [10]
 

During my own study of the Scriptures, likewise, I have failed to locate anything that refers to slavery in the conventional sense.

"Amarr will rule the worlds of Heaven" is as metaphorical and open to interpretation as the oft-quoted passage regarding "A man being stripped to his foundations".

The simple-minded have simply decided to take them as meaning they must be superior, and they have a right to lord over others, doing them a favor by enslaving them.

The spirit of the work, the intent, seems to have been misplaced.

Domitianus Fury
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:10:00 - [11]
 

Of course a master must take all precautions for the care, saftey, well being and ethical confinement of their slaves, but there are occasions such as natural disasters, civil strife and intervention by so called 'freedom fighters' terrorists and thieves which are beyond a masters control.

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:43:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Domitianus Fury


As one who makes a living and feels the spiritual benefit of tracking down escaped slaves, this matter is of high importance to myself and others in this profession. For we would never wish to violate the laws of God and Empire.



You find spiritual benefit in hunting desperate and horrified people who are just trying to live a free life? Evil or Very Mad You are sick, and this twisted Amarrian philosophy that enslavement is 'spiritual guidance' needs to be destroyed. These people suffer because of your enslavement. Mad


Draco Museveni
Stigmartyr Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:45:00 - [13]
 

What is of concern, is that the perpetual propaganda espoused against the institution of elevation through slavery is not only mouthed by those outside the Empire, but now it also echoes within the Empire - often heard preached by certain capsuleer pilots.

One thing is that particular stance within the theopolitical landscape described as ’liberal’ – not to be confused with the deeply flawed concept of ’liberalism’ known outside the Empire – another thing entirely is this new kind of heretical ’ultraliberalism’ that wants not only to improve the standards of treatment and other such matters regarding slaves, but also to question and in the end completely abolish this most holy tradition of bound service divine.

Such ultraliberal thoughts can be compared to termites, slowly gnawing away at the pillars of our Cathedral.

A thorough theological examination of such thoughts reveal that they stem not from the divine tradition, but from sinful confusion and unrealism. Myself I suspect that it is the peculiar state of the capsuleer condition itself that in certain individuals seems to function as an environment where heretical influences may take hold and thrive.

No longer staunchly bound to the sacred hierarchal and organic communion of the Imperial Dominion, these capsuleers become rootless and isolated in their new domain, floating like lone atoms in the spatial vastness of the heavens, forgetful and oblivious, developing novel ideas and confused counter-traditional concepts, even going so far as to read into the Holy Scriptures their own individual confusions, creating schismatic theories that in the end translates into heretical practice.

Now, this confused state may very well be the norm outside the Empire, amongst the planetbound and the stationbound as well as the capsuleer, as many of these poor specimen endure the fate of living separated from the divine and sacred hierarchy we of the Empire enjoy. When living in such separation, the individual is easily swayed into the worship of various ungodly concepts, wasting their fate and future on various utopical delusions. But for those of the Faith?

I believe a new front must be established: that of helping the misguided capsuleers of Amarr decent to find the True Spiritual Light, so they no longer shall have to walk in shadows, guided as they are by their own flawed inventions and 'novel' ideas.

Ston Momaki
Caldari
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:52:00 - [14]
 

The Disciples of Ston call upon the Amarr empire to end all slavery and to right the injustices committed in the name of religion. There is no true theology that exists to justify the wickedness of slavery. To create your own God in your own likeness to justify your own wickedness is the deapest of blasphemy against true deity.

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:57:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Jason Galente on 01/06/2011 00:57:56
Originally by: Draco Museveni
What is of concern, is that the perpetual propaganda espoused against the institution of elevation through slavery is not only mouthed by those outside the Empire, but now it also echoes within the Empire - often heard preached by certain capsuleer pilots.

One thing is that particular stance within the theopolitical landscape described as ’liberal’ – not to be confused with the deeply flawed concept of ’liberalism’ known outside the Empire – another thing entirely is this new kind of heretical ’ultraliberalism’ that wants not only to improve the standards of treatment and other such matters regarding slaves, but also to question and in the end completely abolish this most holy tradition of bound service divine.

Such ultraliberal thoughts can be compared to termites, slowly gnawing away at the pillars of our Cathedral.



Holy my ass. And your entire ultraconservative philosophy can be compared to termites gnawing away at the pillars of humanity and civility.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.01 07:28:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Ston Momaki
There is no true theology that exists to justify the wickedness of slavery.


You're making the assumption that slavery is automatically wicked. It isn't.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.06.01 08:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Draco Museveni
What is of concern, is that the perpetual propaganda espoused against the institution of elevation through slavery is not only mouthed by those outside the Empire, but now it also echoes within the Empire - often heard preached by certain capsuleer pilots.

One thing is that particular stance within the theopolitical landscape described as ’liberal’ – not to be confused with the deeply flawed concept of ’liberalism’ known outside the Empire – another thing entirely is this new kind of heretical ’ultraliberalism’ that wants not only to improve the standards of treatment and other such matters regarding slaves, but also to question and in the end completely abolish this most holy tradition of bound service divine.

Such ultraliberal thoughts can be compared to termites, slowly gnawing away at the pillars of our Cathedral.

A thorough theological examination of such thoughts reveal that they stem not from the divine tradition, but from sinful confusion and unrealism. Myself I suspect that it is the peculiar state of the capsuleer condition itself that in certain individuals seems to function as an environment where heretical influences may take hold and thrive.

No longer staunchly bound to the sacred hierarchal and organic communion of the Imperial Dominion, these capsuleers become rootless and isolated in their new domain, floating like lone atoms in the spatial vastness of the heavens, forgetful and oblivious, developing novel ideas and confused counter-traditional concepts, even going so far as to read into the Holy Scriptures their own individual confusions, creating schismatic theories that in the end translates into heretical practice.

Now, this confused state may very well be the norm outside the Empire, amongst the planetbound and the stationbound as well as the capsuleer, as many of these poor specimen endure the fate of living separated from the divine and sacred hierarchy we of the Empire enjoy. When living in such separation, the individual is easily swayed into the worship of various ungodly concepts, wasting their fate and future on various utopical delusions. But for those of the Faith?

I believe a new front must be established: that of helping the misguided capsuleers of Amarr decent to find the True Spiritual Light, so they no longer shall have to walk in shadows, guided as they are by their own flawed inventions and 'novel' ideas.


I might be interested to know more about the ultraliberal confusions you keep mentioning. What makes you say so ? You also mentionned unrealism, rootlessness, loneliness, forgetfulness, counter traditional concepts, and finally confusions about the Holy Scriptures. You actually stated a lot of facts. Could you argue over them now, what makes you say so ?


Sidenote : termites also build cathedrals. And they only gnaw at wooden unprotected cathedrals. Who still builds cathedrals with vulnerable untreated wood anyway ?

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.06.01 11:12:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Ston Momaki
There is no true theology that exists to justify the wickedness of slavery.


You're making the assumption that slavery is automatically wicked. It isn't.


As your comrade had stated earlier, it is apparently ultraliberal and therefore evil to consider changing the living conditions of slaves (for the better). How this is 'Unholy' I have no clue. It would seem even you slave holders can't seem to agree on anything either.

Relic C
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.06.01 12:45:00 - [19]
 

A slave is property. The slave holder in question exchanged fairly and honestly goods or Kredits for right to ownership
of said slave. This makes the slave an item no more or less valuable than an equally priced allotment of strong wine,
though much more malleable, and less pleasant to the palate.

If this slave decides it's destiny lies outside it's duties and makes flight, even beyond the Imperial border, should not
it's owner have every right to pursuit of his missing property?

Draco Museveni
Stigmartyr Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.01 13:03:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Jason Galente
As your comrade had stated earlier, it is apparently ultraliberal and therefore evil to consider changing the living conditions of slaves (for the better). How this is 'Unholy' I have no clue..


There is no evil in changing the conditions of slaves for the better. Quite the contrary: as one purpose of divine service is to improve and embetter the spiritual condition of the subject. What is unholy is the confused assumption that this most holy institution of bound service ought to be completely abolished.

Originally by: Lyn Farel
I might be interested to know more about the ultraliberal confusions you keep mentioning. What makes you say so ? You also mentionned unrealism, rootlessness, loneliness, forgetfulness, counter traditional concepts, and finally confusions about the Holy Scriptures. You actually stated a lot of facts. Could you argue over them now, what makes you say so ?


The only proper knowledge regarding confusion is the knowledge on how to overcome it. All else serves little purpose in the end.

As for unrealism, I use that term to describe the pityful condition of the man whose ties to our sacred tradition is severed. Instead of one uninterrupted and living spiritual reality the result is a splintering of experience into a fragmented and confused framework where the individual replaces adherence to the Holy Tradition with his own unrealistic concepts, substituting direct spiritual experience within the sacred communion with imaginative speculation conducted in isolation.

The result is most likely counter-traditional, as the confused individual instead of Tradition tries to establish reference points based on various kinds of flawed ideology, utopian ideals or other such vain intellectualisms stemming from the speculative mind that is unchecked by superior discipline and divine will. It breeds schisms, and thus heresy.

This is not really a question of argument.

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.06.01 14:34:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Relic C
A slave is property. The slave holder in question exchanged fairly and honestly goods or Kredits for right to ownership
of said slave. This makes the slave an item no more or less valuable than an equally priced allotment of strong wine,
though much more malleable, and less pleasant to the palate.

If this slave decides it's destiny lies outside it's duties and makes flight, even beyond the Imperial border, should not
it's owner have every right to pursuit of his missing property?



Human beings are not property. Violating the inalienable rights (that ALL humans possess) of these people is an atrocity, and what is worse is your insistence that it is God's will. How can you give God such a bad name? What God would endorse such an act? A God that you created to justify your greed.


Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.01 14:40:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Rodj Blake on 01/06/2011 14:40:22
Originally by: Jason Galente
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Ston Momaki
There is no true theology that exists to justify the wickedness of slavery.


You're making the assumption that slavery is automatically wicked. It isn't.


As your comrade had stated earlier, it is apparently ultraliberal and therefore evil to consider changing the living conditions of slaves (for the better). How this is 'Unholy' I have no clue. It would seem even you slave holders can't seem to agree on anything either.


Emperors Heideran VII and Doriam II both supported the humane treatment of slaves, and Empress Jamyl has done nothing to reverse their policies in that regard.

So basically, there's not really much room for debate when it comes to the treatment of slaves.


Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.06.01 14:54:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 01/06/2011 14:40:22
Originally by: Jason Galente
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Ston Momaki
There is no true theology that exists to justify the wickedness of slavery.


You're making the assumption that slavery is automatically wicked. It isn't.


As your comrade had stated earlier, it is apparently ultraliberal and therefore evil to consider changing the living conditions of slaves (for the better). How this is 'Unholy' I have no clue. It would seem even you slave holders can't seem to agree on anything either.


Emperors Heideran VII and Doriam II both supported the humane treatment of slaves, and Empress Jamyl has done nothing to reverse their policies in that regard.

So basically, there's not really much room for debate when it comes to the treatment of slaves.




Before you continue to indulge yourself with your ideas of being the 'glorious enlighteners' or whatever you call yourself, let's stop and think for a second. Your slaves were so unhappy with their current conditions, that this alone caused the dozens of Minmatar tribes to unite and effectively rebel against the single largest empire in New Eden. It would take alot of commitment to be able to do that. Care to explain this?


Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.01 15:38:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jason Galente


Before you continue to indulge yourself with your ideas of being the 'glorious enlighteners' or whatever you call yourself, let's stop and think for a second. Your slaves were so unhappy with their current conditions, that this alone caused the dozens of Minmatar tribes to unite and effectively rebel against the single largest empire in New Eden. It would take alot of commitment to be able to do that. Care to explain this?




Let me ask you a question - if a small child runs away from home could that be used as an argument for preventing everyone from having children?

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.06.01 15:46:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Jason Galente


Before you continue to indulge yourself with your ideas of being the 'glorious enlighteners' or whatever you call yourself, let's stop and think for a second. Your slaves were so unhappy with their current conditions, that this alone caused the dozens of Minmatar tribes to unite and effectively rebel against the single largest empire in New Eden. It would take alot of commitment to be able to do that. Care to explain this?




Let me ask you a question - if a small child runs away from home could that be used as an argument for preventing everyone from having children?


No, but that is because your metaphor does not accurately fit the scenario. If a child runs away from home because he is being beaten and abused, don't you think that the child's brothers and sisters who are still being beaten and abused should be freed?


Nausea
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.01 15:55:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Jason Galente

Originally by: Rodj Blake


Let me ask you a question - if a small child runs away from home could that be used as an argument for preventing everyone from having children?


No, but that is because your metaphor does not accurately fit the scenario. If a child runs away from home because he is being beaten and abused, don't you think that the child's brothers and sisters who are still being beaten and abused should be freed?




Unfortunatly this is where the metaphor breaks a touch for you; the children would not be freed. They'd be taken and given to a more responsible adult to look after.

Not exactly accurate for your, (and admitedly my), view of slavery, but rather apt for his.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.01 16:04:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Nausea
Originally by: Jason Galente

Originally by: Rodj Blake


Let me ask you a question - if a small child runs away from home could that be used as an argument for preventing everyone from having children?


No, but that is because your metaphor does not accurately fit the scenario. If a child runs away from home because he is being beaten and abused, don't you think that the child's brothers and sisters who are still being beaten and abused should be freed?




Unfortunatly this is where the metaphor breaks a touch for you; the children would not be freed. They'd be taken and given to a more responsible adult to look after.

Not exactly accurate for your, (and admitedly my), view of slavery, but rather apt for his.


Indeed.

Owning slaves gives responsibilities as well as rights, and people who can't live up to those responsibilities shouldn't have slaves.

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.06.01 16:05:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Nausea





Unfortunatly this is where the metaphor breaks a touch for you; the children would not be freed. They'd be taken and given to a more responsible adult to look after.

Not exactly accurate for your, (and admitedly my), view of slavery, but rather apt for his.


Of course, the entire foundation of his metaphor in and of itself mandates the flawed Amarrean comparison of a slave to a child and a slave owner to a parent. Children are born to their parents, slaves are taken from them and brought to their slave masters. How ironic.


Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.01 16:07:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Rodj Blake on 01/06/2011 16:07:51
Originally by: Jason Galente
Originally by: Nausea




Unfortunatly this is where the metaphor breaks a touch for you; the children would not be freed. They'd be taken and given to a more responsible adult to look after.

Not exactly accurate for your, (and admitedly my), view of slavery, but rather apt for his.


Of course, the entire foundation of his metaphor in and of itself mandates the flawed Amarrean comparison of a slave to a child and a slave owner to a parent. Children are born to their parents, slaves are taken from them and brought to their slave masters. How ironic.




Most slaves are born into slavery, and know nothing else. Freeing them prematurely would be the same as deserting a child.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.06.01 17:01:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Draco Museveni
Originally by: Jason Galente
As your comrade had stated earlier, it is apparently ultraliberal and therefore evil to consider changing the living conditions of slaves (for the better). How this is 'Unholy' I have no clue..


There is no evil in changing the conditions of slaves for the better. Quite the contrary: as one purpose of divine service is to improve and embetter the spiritual condition of the subject. What is unholy is the confused assumption that this most holy institution of bound service ought to be completely abolished.

Originally by: Lyn Farel
I might be interested to know more about the ultraliberal confusions you keep mentioning. What makes you say so ? You also mentionned unrealism, rootlessness, loneliness, forgetfulness, counter traditional concepts, and finally confusions about the Holy Scriptures. You actually stated a lot of facts. Could you argue over them now, what makes you say so ?


The only proper knowledge regarding confusion is the knowledge on how to overcome it. All else serves little purpose in the end.

As for unrealism, I use that term to describe the pityful condition of the man whose ties to our sacred tradition is severed. Instead of one uninterrupted and living spiritual reality the result is a splintering of experience into a fragmented and confused framework where the individual replaces adherence to the Holy Tradition with his own unrealistic concepts, substituting direct spiritual experience within the sacred communion with imaginative speculation conducted in isolation.

The result is most likely counter-traditional, as the confused individual instead of Tradition tries to establish reference points based on various kinds of flawed ideology, utopian ideals or other such vain intellectualisms stemming from the speculative mind that is unchecked by superior discipline and divine will. It breeds schisms, and thus heresy.

This is not really a question of argument.



Thank you for your answer.

Though it does not clarify anything as you are again speaking of flawed ideology, utopian ideals, and vain intellectualisms without stating what you are refering to. Give some examples. Please explain what is this flawed ideology, utopian ideals, and vain intellectualisms, because without doing so, you are only refering to vague generalities without any clear meaning.

On another note though : what makes you believe that slavery is holy ? What is holy for you, in the first place ?

Best regards.


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