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Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.05.30 18:22:00 - [31]
 

Compared to Dramiel other two Angel ships are pretty balanced. YARRRR!!

Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
Posted - 2011.05.30 19:46:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Lady Skank
Try chasing them off with a Bhaalgorn, they will either not engage at all or die if they do and its not like you don't have the ISK value of 5 recons and w/e else you have on the field.


This man knows. OP is too noob to know the power of the Bhaalgorn.

Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
Posted - 2011.05.30 22:49:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Goose99
If it's truly OP, you would be flying it instead of whinning about it. Gee, there must be a reason you don't. Oh, I see, you don't want to spend the isk.Laughing

Face it, unless every ship is identical, some will always be better than others at something. If there has to be an OP boat, it should be a 1 bil fat bait that gets primaried every time, instead of the cheap mass produced Abaddon that get ignored. What you want is to make the cheapboat that you're willing to risk in pvp OP, instead of the 1 bil boat plus fittings. An OP cheapboat will truly break Eve.

No I fly carriers that I bought and fitted in PvP and lost them to a Nyx + some support. I quadbox recons and BSes. I am rich and I fly expensive ships in PvP. I have the same hard time with Machs as the OP. I WILL fly them once two of my characters get minny AND gallente BS to lvl V. My luck though once I'm trained into one it will be nerfed. :-(

Bossanova Widya
Posted - 2011.05.31 00:52:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Farrisa Aideron
Keep fighting pairs of Machs that we need two Falcons (each Falcon has two minmitar jammers and we STILL cant get reliable jams on them and if you miss ONE jam the falcon is DEAD) and TWO rapiers and an Arazu to hold them in place. Then we need decent dps too.

I don't care that they are expensive. They are better then any other pirate or navy BS.

Discuss


Ranting in vein

mama guru
Gallente
Thundercats
Posted - 2011.05.31 01:05:00 - [35]
 

Problem is most people fight machariels like ******s. They see the machariels at 50km off the gate then they charge them like lemmings with their t2 frigs/dramiels/dictors or whatever and wonder why they just lost 5 support about 30 seconds later.

A single curse can all but nullify a machs dps, a pair of scimitars will save your heavy tackler etc. Think a little, you do not need to permajam a ship and put 3 webbers on it to SURVIVE. Catching it is another story however.

Machariels are the best kiting ships in the game and the more of them deployed the deadlier they become. 5+ machs and you better have titans or run the **** away cause you will not catch them if they are led by a competent FC.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.05.31 01:38:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 31/05/2011 01:38:18
Originally by: mama guru
Problem is most people fight machariels like ******s. They see the machariels at 50km off the gate then they charge them like lemmings with their t2 frigs/dramiels/dictors or whatever and wonder why they just lost 5 support about 30 seconds later.

A single curse can all but nullify a machs dps, a pair of scimitars will save your heavy tackler etc. Think a little, you do not need to permajam a ship and put 3 webbers on it to SURVIVE. Catching it is another story however.

Machariels are the best kiting ships in the game and the more of them deployed the deadlier they become. 5+ machs and you better have titans or run the **** away cause you will not catch them if they are led by a competent FC.


You just make the point more and more that they are Over powered. Re-Read your post and think about how much effort it takes to take on a mach. Its not just the people suck at fighting them.

El Mauru
Amarr
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.05.31 03:09:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: El Mauru on 31/05/2011 03:13:11
I think the problem with machs is they are too much of a force multiplier. That being said- I don't think they need to be nerfed by much to bring them back in line. IMHO the entire faction lineup (dramiel, cyna, mach) could do with a capacitor recharge/amount nerf so it becomes near impossible to fit neuts on them anymore (to the point where you need to sacrifice a mid for a cap booster and still have seriousproblems with cap when running neuts for longer than a single cycle).

It would make them a tad more challenging to fly properly without breaking what actually makes them fun.

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.05.31 05:03:00 - [38]
 

As i said again.
The weakness of machariels, is they get F'd very very very hard by abaddon/recon blobs. As long as you blob, the mach dies.

Even if the numbers are equal, regardless if its arty vs tachy or ac vs pulse, when you pit a thousand to a thousand, the machariel side is going to cry as they get bricked and stoned hard.

A ship that cant survive in blobs = bad ship.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.05.31 05:22:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 31/05/2011 05:23:24
Originally by: Straight Edged
As i said again.
The weakness of machariels, is they get F'd very very very hard by abaddon/recon blobs. As long as you blob, the mach dies.

Even if the numbers are equal, regardless if its arty vs tachy or ac vs pulse, when you pit a thousand to a thousand, the machariel side is going to cry as they get bricked and stoned hard.

A ship that cant survive in blobs = bad ship.


You cant be expecting anyone to take your seriously after this post. Mach gang with its own RR makes your claim silly.

Even more that you imply machs do not work well in gangs. You are clearly insane with the ramblings you are putting forth.

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.05.31 05:44:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Straight Edged on 31/05/2011 05:44:17
As i said. when the number reaches thousands, we wont care about RR. you will melt regardless.

You can argue all you want really. No one is going to bring mach's in large fleet fights no matter how you argue the matter.

Its the mach side thats gonna cry.

And any solo/small gang melts to fleets. so thats not an option neither.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.05.31 05:46:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 31/05/2011 05:47:06
So all fighting in Eve is really about the huge massive blob fest with thousands of pilots? Rolling Eyes

Ed: Not commenting on Machs vs Anything fleets.

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.05.31 06:00:00 - [42]
 

No. im just saying, a ship that is good at an inferior role is not an overpowered ship.

For example, Hulk is the absolute perfect best ship at mining. however it gets killed by abaddon blobs.
No one is going to say hulk is overpowered?

Now replace hulk with mach. mining with small gang

Machariel is the absolute perfect best ship at small gangs. however it gets killed by abaddon blobs.
Will you say mach is overpowered?


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.31 09:41:00 - [43]
 

Pirate faction BS in "much better than T1 basic" non-shocker.

Adacia Calla
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.31 09:51:00 - [44]
 

Outrunning everything but interceptors, vagabonds and cynabals never gets old.

Azuse
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.05.31 09:51:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Pirate faction BS in "much better than T1 basic" non-shocker.


Lemmings running towards guns is non-shocker Very Happy

Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
Posted - 2011.05.31 09:52:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Dizeezer Velar
Originally by: Lady Skank
Try chasing them off with a Bhaalgorn, they will either not engage at all or die if they do and its not like you don't have the ISK value of 5 recons and w/e else you have on the field.


This man knows. OP is too noob to know the power of the Bhaalgorn.


People still cant see it and are rambling about what type of blob you need when all you need to deal with a pair of nano machs is a single Bhaalgorn.

McBorsk
Posted - 2011.05.31 11:57:00 - [47]
 

so get a bloody mach? what is with all this whining about op this and op that?

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.31 13:18:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: McBorsk
so get a bloody mach? what is with all this whining about op this and op that?


He doesn't understand that the Mach is not overpowered because he's not capable to understand there are far too many ships in the game broken for several reasons. The Mach is not overpowered, he works fine so don't plead to break something working in this game when there are already tons of crap ships needing rebalance dammit !

Revamp the ships/weapon systems the bonuses/fitting requirements and some other funky stuff and suddenly the Mach will not look overpowered any more.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.05.31 14:20:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: McBorsk
so get a bloody mach? what is with all this whining about op this and op that?


He doesn't understand that the Mach is not overpowered because he's not capable to understand there are far too many ships in the game broken for several reasons. The Mach is not overpowered, he works fine so don't plead to break something working in this game when there are already tons of crap ships needing rebalance dammit !

Revamp the ships/weapon systems the bonuses/fitting requirements and some other funky stuff and suddenly the Mach will not look overpowered any more.


And you don't understand that whinners will whine. It's what they do.Laughing

Whatever kills them is always OP. But if they fly the ship, then it doesn't seem OP anymore. It is the people that's OP, and thus, other players need to be gimped. Better yet, make Eve a single player game, where everyone can win.ugh

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.31 14:30:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: McBorsk
so get a bloody mach? what is with all this whining about op this and op that?


He doesn't understand that the Mach is not overpowered because he's not capable to understand there are far too many ships in the game broken for several reasons. The Mach is not overpowered, he works fine so don't plead to break something working in this game when there are already tons of crap ships needing rebalance dammit !

Revamp the ships/weapon systems the bonuses/fitting requirements and some other funky stuff and suddenly the Mach will not look overpowered any more.


And you don't understand that whinners will whine. It's what they do.Laughing

Whatever kills them is always OP. But if they fly the ship, then it doesn't seem OP anymore. It is the people that's OP, and thus, other players need to be gimped. Better yet, make Eve a single player game, where everyone can win.ugh


You already can do it, deplete rocks, you always win. Laughing

Kampfpanzer
Posted - 2011.05.31 16:59:00 - [51]
 

Dont touch my machariel, damn you!

And if you can't beat us, join us Laughing

Darcy D'Spledide
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:07:00 - [52]
 

EVE: until the next patch, working as intended

Precisionist
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:13:00 - [53]
 

Curse + lachesis = gg 2 machs, curse with 4 turret disrupters 2-3 medium neuts + lachesis 1-2 dom scramb = gg.

Can you still fit a heavy neut on a curse these days?

Im tired of these fckheads probably with no implants, flying battlecruisers(drakes and hurricanes most likely) getting smoked by people risking billions of mod/implant/ship to fight giant blobs of cheap t1 bc's.

Up your risk factor and you should be ok, until then stfu.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:16:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 31/05/2011 17:21:53
Edited by: RougeOperator on 31/05/2011 17:20:14
Originally by: McBorsk
so get a bloody mach? what is with all this whining about op this and op that?


Your answer is to simply have everyone in the same ship because its that good....that of course being the very reason its broken after all.

Originally by: Straight Edged
No. im just saying, a ship that is good at an inferior role is not an overpowered ship.

For example, Hulk is the absolute perfect best ship at mining. however it gets killed by abaddon blobs.
No one is going to say hulk is overpowered?

Now replace hulk with mach. mining with small gang

Machariel is the absolute perfect best ship at small gangs. however it gets killed by abaddon blobs.
Will you say mach is overpowered?




Your example and your logic are as ******ed as you are. Please stop posting before you make everyone reading your posts lose more brain cells with your infections ******ation.

Really blobs? The machs will alpha your abaddons faster then you can alpha theirs especially when its in the 1000s. That you say, "just out blob them", is a logic error of epic levels.

Originally by: Lady Skank
Originally by: Dizeezer Velar
Originally by: Lady Skank
Try chasing them off with a Bhaalgorn, they will either not engage at all or die if they do and its not like you don't have the ISK value of 5 recons and w/e else you have on the field.


This man knows. OP is too noob to know the power of the Bhaalgorn.


People still cant see it and are rambling about what type of blob you need when all you need to deal with a pair of nano machs is a single Bhaalgorn.


What ****** mach pilots are you talking about that they would be caught by a slow as molasses Bhaalgorn. They can easily stay out of range of its neuts and webs and rip it up.

Originally by: Precisionist
Curse + lachesis = gg 2 machs, curse with 4 turret disrupters 2-3 medium neuts + lachesis 1-2 dom scramb = gg.

Can you still fit a heavy neut on a curse these days?

Im tired of these fckheads probably with no implants, flying battlecruisers(drakes and hurricanes most likely) getting smoked by people risking billions of mod/implant/ship to fight giant blobs of cheap t1 bc's.

Up your risk factor and you should be ok, until then stfu.


What terrible advice you give. That lach and curse died in the actual fight. And they deserved it for terrible fittings you suggested.

Also if machs die to such an easy to kill two man gang they must be the worst pilots in eve.

Common Origin
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:23:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Common Origin on 31/05/2011 17:23:05
Originally by: RougeOperator
Edited by: RougeOperator on 31/05/2011 17:21:53
Edited by: RougeOperator on 31/05/2011 17:20:14
Originally by: McBorsk
so get a bloody mach? what is with all this whining about op this and op that?


Your answer is to simply have everyone in the same ship because its that good....that of course being the very reason its broken after all.

Originally by: Straight Edged
No. im just saying, a ship that is good at an inferior role is not an overpowered ship.

For example, Hulk is the absolute perfect best ship at mining. however it gets killed by abaddon blobs.
No one is going to say hulk is overpowered?

Now replace hulk with mach. mining with small gang

Machariel is the absolute perfect best ship at small gangs. however it gets killed by abaddon blobs.
Will you say mach is overpowered?




Your example and your logic are as ******ed as you are. Please stop posting before you make everyone reading your posts lose more brain cells with your infections ******ation.

Really blobs? The machs will alpha your abaddons faster then you can alpha theirs especially when its in the 1000s. That you say, "just out blob them", is a logic error of epic levels.

Originally by: Lady Skank
Originally by: Dizeezer Velar
Originally by: Lady Skank
Try chasing them off with a Bhaalgorn, they will either not engage at all or die if they do and its not like you don't have the ISK value of 5 recons and w/e else you have on the field.


This man knows. OP is too noob to know the power of the Bhaalgorn.


People still cant see it and are rambling about what type of blob you need when all you need to deal with a pair of nano machs is a single Bhaalgorn.


What ****** mach pilots are you talking about that they would be caught by a slow as molasses Bhaalgorn. They can easily stay out of range of its neuts and webs and rip it up.

Originally by: Precisionist
Curse + lachesis = gg 2 machs, curse with 4 turret disrupters 2-3 medium neuts + lachesis 1-2 dom scramb = gg.

Can you still fit a heavy neut on a curse these days?

Im tired of these fckheads probably with no implants, flying battlecruisers(drakes and hurricanes most likely) getting smoked by people risking billions of mod/implant/ship to fight giant blobs of cheap t1 bc's.

Up your risk factor and you should be ok, until then stfu.


What terrible advice you give. That lach and curse died in the actual fight. And they deserved it for terrible fittings you suggested.

Also if machs die to such an easy to kill two man gang they must be the worst pilots in eve.


When the Bhaalgorn warps to its buddy on top of you... they are on top of you. **** ensues.YARRRR!!

Precisionist
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:25:00 - [56]
 

Not saying they will die, but neither should the curse/lachesis if used right.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:34:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Common Origin
Edited by: Common Origin on 31/05/2011 17:23:05

When the Bhaalgorn warps to its buddy on top of you... they are on top of you. **** ensues.YARRRR!!



I can only infer from this you dont PvP. The mach pilots have d scan open see bhaal warping in. They get range before he lands. By the time he lands they are out of range of his neuts webs. He just killed himself cause his buddy dies long before he lands they use fancy boosted faction points thanks to alt booster. Herp derp de derp more.

You also keep changing the scenario. How about you try to create a complete scenario before saying anything more. Rather then saying x beats y cause. So when someone responds you can change the situation to suit your argument on the fly. Its really low class to do this.

Im going to add you and others keep inventing perfect scenarios that let you catch a mach that for some reason was not up to speed and or moving for some reason. Why...Its almost like you have never fought against a good mach.

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:43:00 - [58]
 

why are you guys hurting your heads anyways.

Most of the time, its simply like this.

Mach jumps the gate/warps in.
a couple hundred baddons lock in 4 seconds.
POP. 1M-3M alpha of hot juicy lasers.
Repeat.

Common Origin
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:46:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
Originally by: Common Origin
Edited by: Common Origin on 31/05/2011 17:23:05

When the Bhaalgorn warps to its buddy on top of you... they are on top of you. **** ensues.YARRRR!!



I can only infer from this you dont PvP. The mach pilots have d scan open see bhaal warping in. They get range before he lands. By the time he lands they are out of range of his neuts webs. He just killed himself cause his buddy dies long before he lands they use fancy boosted faction points thanks to alt booster. Herp derp de derp more.

You also keep changing the scenario. How about you try to create a complete scenario before saying anything more. Rather then saying x beats y cause. So when someone responds you can change the situation to suit your argument on the fly. Its really low class to do this.

Im going to add you and others keep inventing perfect scenarios that let you catch a mach that for some reason was not up to speed and or moving for some reason. Why...Its almost like you have never fought against a good mach.


You like making stuff up, don't you? Oh yeah, that's because your gang get pwned by 2 machs, out of all things. Where do you point your directionals and how fast do you cycle in the middle of combat. And how do you actually get out of range while tangling with the tackler he's warping to? Try the stuff you're sprewing before opening your mouth.Laughing

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:47:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Diomidis on 31/05/2011 17:52:47
Am I the only one being perma-jammed by Falcons? Especially in my meh sensor strength Tempests and Maels?
Or is it cause the ***gy blobs not only have 5-10 times the numbers, but also refit their recons accordingly - prob with 100% racial jammers of my fleet's composition?

Nearly all race recons if added to a half decent gang with 2-3 DPS ships can be fitted to pwn 1-2 man gangs. If you cannot do it with a recon, chances are that you are clueless...most ppl are, so usually they bring 1-2 recons for every "pirate" (the blob is the good guys), and they drive them off or even kill a couple and then brag for months. Rolling Eyes

So...
countering the silly OP, if ISK is not the absolute answer (and how come large alliances -aka blobs- not having the iskies? someone is ripping you off then, cause some do have em), then numbers shouldn't be either.
Cause it's funny when ppl whine about "2x machariels", when there are fleets around with 15x machariels, or 50x cynabals or 100x tengus...


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