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blankseplocked To: CSM. Requesting Official Statement on Recent Developments
 
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Solo Player
Posted - 2011.05.29 07:25:00 - [1]
 

Since taking office two months ago, you have not been very visible as an institution as I would hope for. More to the point, I was hoping for a public, official statement on the last two much-debated announcements/changes by CCP: „Agents made easy“ and more pressingly, the whole microtransactions in Incarna issue, the latter of which earning a possible record of currently 34 pages of comments in less than 2 days. Further, I'm not sure you've even pronounced your stance on the anomaly channges of two months ago that were cause for much chagrin.
You have stated in your open letter that you see communication as a defining factor for the usefulness of a CSM, and you promised to keep us up to date with further proclamations. Maybe I have missed some individual Postings by some of your members in relevant threads. Maybe I overlooked a CSM announcement in General Discussions, where threads move back several pages per day. If so, I don't think you are communication as visibly as I think you ought. If not: talk to us, will you?
There is much uncertainty among your electorate at the moment about the direction CCP is taking EVE. CCP themselves are evasive and selective in their answers.
This could be the defining moment of a strong and dedicated CSM, such as you promised to be. Are you up to it?

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.29 17:49:00 - [2]
 

they have been very public. Listen to eve radio, many podcasts, live csm dev blogs.

ect

Solo Player
Posted - 2011.05.29 18:37:00 - [3]
 

Very funny. As if anyone paid attention to audio. Spread over half the web, it seems, too. That is not how communication is done.

I expect an official representation to use an official channel. Silly me.

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.05.29 19:15:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Solo Player
Very funny. As if anyone paid attention to audio. Spread over half the web, it seems, too. That is not how communication is done.

I expect an official representation to use an official channel. Silly me.



wait, what?

Communication is NOT done by getting a message across, directly, and though multiple channels?

Solo Player
Posted - 2011.05.29 20:12:00 - [5]
 

Indeed. One message, one source. Official channels. Unofficial ones if you fear the official ones are not enough (i.e., your message is countered by other, opposing messages).

Janos Saal
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.29 21:22:00 - [6]
 

You're an idiot.

VCBee 2fast2furious
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.05.29 23:22:00 - [7]
 

I can't be bothered to go to the channels that the CSM is using for communication, I demand that they use one specific channel of my personal preference.

If they do not comply with this demand then they are a failure.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.05.30 05:25:00 - [8]
 

Which podcasts?

I can't listen to them on EVE Radio since noone's ever active during my non-work waking hours.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2011.06.01 14:10:00 - [9]
 

It would be nice if they used these forums ccp set up for csm. That way players could actually interact with their representatives instead of listening to a canned audio clip. (and telling people they must be available at a certain time to ask their short question so you can give your political sound bite isn't really interaction.) Thinking that players are going to chase down everyones blog and radio show is unrealistic.

Plus they will just be repeating what they said in different media in different places.

There is something to be said for a centralized information outlet instead of telling players to search the internet.

Vesok Toch
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:34:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Cearain
It would be nice if they used these forums ccp set up for csm. That way players could actually interact with their representatives instead of listening to a canned audio clip. (and telling people they must be available at a certain time to ask their short question so you can give your political sound bite isn't really interaction.) Thinking that players are going to chase down everyones blog and radio show is unrealistic.

Plus they will just be repeating what they said in different media in different places.

There is something to be said for a centralized information outlet instead of telling players to search the internet.


This

Diamaht Nevain
Gallente
Avatar Union
Posted - 2011.06.14 15:04:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Cearain
It would be nice if they used these forums ccp set up for csm. That way players could actually interact with their representatives instead of listening to a canned audio clip. (and telling people they must be available at a certain time to ask their short question so you can give your political sound bite isn't really interaction.) Thinking that players are going to chase down everyones blog and radio show is unrealistic.

Plus they will just be repeating what they said in different media in different places.

There is something to be said for a centralized information outlet instead of telling players to search the internet.


This

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.15 00:50:00 - [12]
 

Well, I have been known to post from time to time when I have something to contribute to a conversation. I can also be found on Failheap and occasionally on the forum-that-must-not-be-named.

There will be occasional lulls in the amount of message traffic; actual CSM business (like doing the minutes) takes a lot of time, and sometimes there are situations where we just can't comment because of NDA.

I personally scan Jita Park, Assembly Hall and Devblog threads more than GD, simply because of time constraints, but if there's a thread you think I need to be posting in, poke me on Evemail.

Solo Player
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:37:00 - [13]
 

Thanks, Trebor, for showing your face here.
I also applaud your effort to keep us up to date on various places throughout the internet.

However, I can't hep thinking the CSM's efforts would be better served if you focused your communications in one place that is easily visible by a majority of your electorate. I believe this place is here, or at least someplace that is directly linked from here. I also think while podcasts are a nice touch, written statements are ultimately more useful for most players to get up to date on your efforts.

We have been told you folks met online a lot to discuss issues both old and current. Would it inconvenience your mission overly if you were to post regular heads-ups on both your progress and your takes on current matters (and what you plan to to about these) in the manner of Mittens' open letter?

Currently, I see a lot of players really upset or unsettled about certain happenings surrounding EVE. Please don't let them hanging.

Dirk Decibel
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:16:00 - [14]
 

Been saying this for months now, somehow it's not getting through to either CCP or the CSM. They keep failing at communicating.

At least link your posts, blogs, tweets, whatever on these forums.

ROXGenghis
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.16 19:01:00 - [15]
 

CSM5 >> CSM6 Where's the accomplishments? The transparency? The communications? Mittani's own writings state that you should make it as easy as possible for people to receive your message, and to use all possible channels. I'm not seeing squat coming out of CSM6. Why did CSM5 take only 2-3 weeks to produce their minutes, but CSM6 takes months? What happened to the CSM6 campaign promises. WTB Mynxee administration.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.19 09:18:00 - [16]
 

I appreciate the concerns about transparency. It's a bit of a difficult problem, because a lot of the discussions we have with CCP relate to giving them feedback on stuff, much of which is NDA. But we are very active on the topics of the day, such as the Sparkle-Scorpion for AUR, the API developer monetization devblog, etc. I would say internal forum activity is up a bit compared to CSM5, but not hugely (as was the case with CSM5 vs. CSM4).

The current status of the minutes:

Delivered: Trebor 7, Mittens 5, Vile Rat 2, Two Step 2, Elise Randolph 3

Assigned but not delivered: Diagoras 1 (intro session, non-controversial, almost completed)

Yet to be done:

CCP comments & CSM reaction
Final editing, style conformation -- my job
Final draft review

I am pushing for a release date of Monday, June 27. But a big question is whether the people at CCP have the time to devote to their pass on it, given the impending release of Incarna.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.06.19 10:37:00 - [17]
 

I think I see there point now though... Lets say you comment on a large issue *sparkle scorpian* you shuold make a sticky in this forum section explaing your stance on the subject.

also make a sticky linking all podcasts and blogs you've made.


So by having a easy place for eve players to find all of you're blogs/podcosts they can keep up to date with whats going on.

And by making public statements as it's own thread, and not just as a post inside another thread, people will be able to see "oh, our CSm thinks this about this subject. good to know"


Like for instance the archived fireside chat should up ina sticky of archived CSM announcements. Then with the new forums we can RSS feed subscribe to the announcements sticky. And always be up to date when the CSM has a collective opinion on a major issue.

Topless Trader
Gallente
Hashimoto Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.19 18:00:00 - [18]
 

There is literally no advantage for the CSM representatives to do anything that you guys want them to do.

They already won their election. They no longer need you. Appeasing you has no reward, and failing to do so has no penalty.

When it comes time for elections again, the CSM bloc candidates will be elected as always; and, as always, there is nothing the disgruntled people on the official forums can do about it.

Have a nice father's day!

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.20 10:03:00 - [19]
 

Well, there are delegates like me, who don't really have a bloc vote, who do have a vested interest in sucking up. Twisted Evil

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.06.20 10:09:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Well, there are delegates like me, who don't really have a bloc vote, who do have a vested interest in sucking up. Twisted Evil


Its working Wink

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:37:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: jackaloped on 20/06/2011 20:37:53
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I appreciate the concerns about transparency. It's a bit of a difficult problem, because a lot of the discussions we have with CCP relate to giving them feedback on stuff, much of which is NDA.


This shows what a waste this CSM is. You can not represent the players views on issues that the players have never even heard of.

Why don't you spend the time talking about issues the players do know about and have given their views on?

Not only would you be actually representing players views but we could actually hear from you because it wouldn't all be blocked by nda.




Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.21 06:37:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Edited by: jackaloped on 20/06/2011 20:37:53
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I appreciate the concerns about transparency. It's a bit of a difficult problem, because a lot of the discussions we have with CCP relate to giving them feedback on stuff, much of which is NDA.


This shows what a waste this CSM is. You can not represent the players views on issues that the players have never even heard of.

Why don't you spend the time talking about issues the players do know about and have given their views on?

Not only would you be actually representing players views but we could actually hear from you because it wouldn't all be blocked by nda.

Dear Lord you're dumb! What are they supposed to do when CCP asks for their opinion on topics which they're not allowed to talk about in public?
  1. Talk about it in public! (and breach the NDA)

  2. Refuse to give counsel at all.

  3. Discuss it with CCP and represent the player base as good as they can, for the good of the game.

You decide! No, wait, you don't decide – which is good, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.06.21 19:11:00 - [23]
 

Or maybe they could make sure they set aside some time for the concerns voiced by the players which they supposedly represent.


Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Originally by: jackaloped
Edited by: jackaloped on 20/06/2011 20:37:53
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I appreciate the concerns about transparency. It's a bit of a difficult problem, because a lot of the discussions we have with CCP relate to giving them feedback on stuff, much of which is NDA.


This shows what a waste this CSM is. You can not represent the players views on issues that the players have never even heard of.

Why don't you spend the time talking about issues the players do know about and have given their views on?

Not only would you be actually representing players views but we could actually hear from you because it wouldn't all be blocked by nda.

Dear Lord you're dumb! What are they supposed to do when CCP asks for their opinion on topics which they're not allowed to talk about in public?
  1. Talk about it in public! (and breach the NDA)

  2. Refuse to give counsel at all.

  3. Discuss it with CCP and represent the player base as good as they can, for the good of the game.

You decide! No, wait, you don't decide – which is good, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.22 06:17:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Or maybe they could make sure they set aside some time for the concerns voiced by the players which they supposedly represent.

What makes you think that they don't?

Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries
Posted - 2011.06.22 11:54:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Solo Player
Indeed. One message, one source. Official channels. Unofficial ones if you fear the official ones are not enough (i.e., your message is countered by other, opposing messages).


Agreed we shouldn't have to scour the internet to find information, and the location of any additional information (podcasts) should be referenced in one location (these forums.

Lyris Nairn
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:27:00 - [26]
 

The CSM has a clearly defined purpose as set forth by CCP. That purpose is to provide CSM with feedback to in-house ideas. This interaction with CCP is protected by a non-disclosure agreement which has real-life ramifications should it be breached.

The CSM serves at the pleasure of CCP.
The CSM can be dissolved at any time.

The CSM is not a rebel group fighting for the ideas and rights of the player base. It exists to serve a function on behalf of CCP, not on behalf of the player base.

The release of minutes for public review is a courtesy; it is neither a right, nor a privilege, nor an obligation. The only reason it is done at all is out of the goodness of the individual CSM members' hearts and of CCP staff.

Stop complaining that your free hand-out sometimes doesn't occur in a timely manner.

ROXGenghis
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:05:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Lyris Nairn
The CSM has a clearly defined purpose as set forth by CCP. That purpose is to provide CSM with feedback to in-house ideas. This interaction with CCP is protected by a non-disclosure agreement which has real-life ramifications should it be breached.

The CSM serves at the pleasure of CCP.
The CSM can be dissolved at any time.

The CSM is not a rebel group fighting for the ideas and rights of the player base. It exists to serve a function on behalf of CCP, not on behalf of the player base.

The release of minutes for public review is a courtesy; it is neither a right, nor a privilege, nor an obligation. The only reason it is done at all is out of the goodness of the individual CSM members' hearts and of CCP staff.

Stop complaining that your free hand-out sometimes doesn't occur in a timely manner.


This couldn't be more wrong if you'd tried. What you are describing are beta testers. CSM are *representatives* of the player base whose function is to provide their constituency with a voice as CCP stakeholders.


 

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