open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Aurum Debate
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 05:29:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 30/05/2011 05:31:26
Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil
Edited by: S''qarpium D''igil on 30/05/2011 00:25:52
The problem is that it won't become free to play. CCP intends to charge us a full subscription fee and then take more of our money just to fill their greedy pockets.


That's bs and you know it. You can buy everything that is in the MT store for isk instead.

get over it.

the most important thig to remeber is One plex gives 3500 Aur

one item cost 1 Aur

there are only 40 items in the store for far.



lets say down the line they get to 300 items. You can still buy more than 5 of each thing with ONE PLEX.


Plex for arum is only for store stocking.

Astroka
Posted - 2011.05.30 05:35:00 - [32]
 

Items cost 1 Aurum because it's the test server.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.30 05:35:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 30/05/2011 05:37:38
Originally by: mkint
It would be pretty interesting if they made it so unsubbed accounts could log in to a station but not undock. Probably cause troubles if it really followed the full blown F2P financial model though.

Eh, not necessarily.
As long as the only thing that works in CQ would be the mirror, the AUR shop, the door to Incarna and a LIMITED access to the market (only PLEX and AUR-derived items in the station you're located in), this could actually work.
It would also make the "hours for PLEX" option partially redundant, as it would be partially always active. On the other hand, activating "hours for PLEX" does grant you 4 hours of unrestricted EVE access per non-paying cycle, which means it gives you enough time with the full item inventory and full market access to be able to get a new PLEX, so it is better if it stays there as an option.

Originally by: Astroka
Items cost 1 Aurum because it's the test server.

1 AUR, 10 AUR, 50, 784 AUR, other than the cost, what's the difference ?
Until now, you were arguing about principles, not costs.

mkint
Posted - 2011.05.30 05:47:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 30/05/2011 05:37:38
Originally by: mkint
It would be pretty interesting if they made it so unsubbed accounts could log in to a station but not undock. Probably cause troubles if it really followed the full blown F2P financial model though.

Eh, not necessarily.
As long as the only thing that works in CQ would be the mirror, the AUR shop, the door to Incarna and a LIMITED access to the market (only PLEX and AUR-derived items in the station you're located in), this could actually work.
It would also make the "hours for PLEX" option partially redundant, as it would be partially always active. On the other hand, activating "hours for PLEX" does grant you 4 hours of unrestricted EVE access per non-paying cycle, which means it gives you enough time with the full item inventory and full market access to be able to get a new PLEX, so it is better if it stays there as an option.


I guess the really hard part is if Incarna were to be made f2p, to make sure that you can get a paid advantage in incarna that does not translate to an advantage over a paid account in space. I mean maybe have the poker tables use AUR, and having the option to buy a seat at better tables.

The real issue is, CCP has so many little failures, and even the tiniest failure with F2P (or outright lie with some of the stuff CCP has done) can bring the whole thing crashing down destroying the entire game.

Astroka
Posted - 2011.05.30 05:50:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Astroka on 30/05/2011 05:51:10
Originally by: Akita T
1 AUR, 10 AUR, 50, 784 AUR, other than the cost, what's the difference ?
Until now, you were arguing about principles, not costs.

That was just in response to the post before mine, talking about how much you can buy with one PLEX worth of Aurum.

Edit: Please read and put posts into proper context before you find an excuse to argue.

Logan LaMort
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.30 05:50:00 - [36]
 

What Akita T said basically.

I hate the idea of MT when it affects gameplay, vanity items however I'm completely fine with, and I remember this being the viewpoint of a lot of people on the 'PLEX for remap debate'.

The system proposed seems like a good middle ground. It's perfectly possible to get these items for ISK. Okay sure, somewhere down the line someone will have to pay out cash for a real PLEX, but that happens all the time anyway, and realistically that isn't going to stop.
Realistically you will have the option of gaining these purely cosmetic items for free, with ISK, or with paid money via a GTC.

As for the market fluctuations affecting people who pay with PLEX and this possibly opening the door for CCP to MT for gameplay changing items, well, that's all in the future and we have no way of knowing how that will pan out.
Might as well panic about EVE dying when it actually comes to it.

If EVE was a cash cow, we'd be paying for expansions and we would have to buy MT related items with money, no possible alternatives. These items would also be better than anything in the game, like Jovian ships, so you'd have to buy them to not be completely slaughtered by anyone else in the game.
Until that happens, unsubscribe if you like, but keep things in perspective, not all slopes are slippery.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 05:58:00 - [37]
 

vanity items are not FROCED on anyone. the funny thing this vanity items are for apart of the game that isn't even forced on anyone. But I suppose that point is mute since they said ship paint jobs are coming.

Basically, if it does nothing but look different, it's not forcign you pay a dime. It's an optional service for those who want it. pure and simple.

if they go non-vanity items the game will collapse into a ball of fire.

also it can never be f2P with MT, MTs in eve are based on plex, which is based on monthly subs. Without monthly subs there is no Item shop.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.30 06:02:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Astroka
Originally by: Akita T
1 AUR, 10 AUR, 50, 784 AUR, other than the cost, what's the difference ?
Until now, you were arguing about principles, not costs.

That was just in response to the post before mine, talking about how much you can buy with one PLEX worth of Aurum.
Please read and put posts into proper context before you find an excuse to argue.

Yes, I have read the post above and realized you were talking about it, but my point remained valid so I saw no reason to change it.
Your stated issue was never with the cost, but with the principle of the thing, so you complaining about cost all of a sudden when MM said "but they will be dirt cheap" was at least a bit odd.
And you didn't answer to anything else I said so far, so I had nothing else to argue about Razz

Astroka
Posted - 2011.05.30 06:06:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Astroka
Originally by: Akita T
1 AUR, 10 AUR, 50, 784 AUR, other than the cost, what's the difference ?
Until now, you were arguing about principles, not costs.

That was just in response to the post before mine, talking about how much you can buy with one PLEX worth of Aurum.
Please read and put posts into proper context before you find an excuse to argue.

Yes, I have read the post above and realized you were talking about it, but my point remained valid so I saw no reason to change it.
Your stated issue was never with the cost, but with the principle of the thing, so you complaining about cost all of a sudden when MM said "but they will be dirt cheap" was at least a bit odd.
And you didn't answer to anything else I said so far, so I had nothing else to argue about Razz

Well, I've pretty much given up arguing. The item shop is coming either way, nothing left to do but kick back and see what happens. And I wasn't complaining about cost (I won't use it so it could be 5 PLEX per shirt and I wouldn't care), I was just stating that you won't be able to buy 5 of each item with one PLEX like the previous post thought.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.30 06:14:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Astroka
Well, I've pretty much given up arguing. The item shop is coming either way, nothing left to do but kick back and see what happens.

So what about your stated "AUR comes, I quit" stance ? Razz

Astroka
Posted - 2011.05.30 06:19:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Astroka
Well, I've pretty much given up arguing. The item shop is coming either way, nothing left to do but kick back and see what happens.

So what about your stated "AUR comes, I quit" stance ? Razz

My subscription's paid for until December. I've got a while to sit around before I can actually quit.

Hecatonis
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.30 06:39:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Astroka
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Astroka
Well, I've pretty much given up arguing. The item shop is coming either way, nothing left to do but kick back and see what happens.

So what about your stated "AUR comes, I quit" stance ? Razz

My subscription's paid for until December. I've got a while to sit around before I can actually quit.


i beg you..

if you are going to leave please do those that are staying a favour, dont just spend your time left whining on the forum. its so boring reading through the "i hate CCP/this game is crap/rabble rabble rabble" BS.

constructive feed back is one thing, but more Millias or Ghoests or the like just really make the entire place a lot more agro then it needs to be.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 06:49:00 - [43]
 

THE COST HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE PRINCIPLE.

You can't put down 1$ to buy as shirt. In eve it's the 1st game to make you, whether through isk or cash put down 15$ all at once or nothing. And with said money you'll be able to buy 100 of everything.

now the fact is they know players of eve won't spend more than a million isk on a shirt. Hell even that;s pushing it lore wise. So the devs in that thread seem to make it clear that 1 AUR will be around the cost since that cost in isk on the market would be 100,000 isk.

As this is the case the principle of the MT store in eve is not to take 5$ to get one hat.

It's to pay 15$ or in game money, to get 3500 hats. Or more realistically once final prices are in, 350 of them.

They are not expecting people that just want a new hat to pay real money to get it. For the same reason you don't go to restaurant supply store to buy food for yourself. DO you think you really need a 10 gallon bucket of soy sauce? Or that CCP expect normal players to buy that?

No of course not. They are very cleverly relying on people interesting in marketing and shop ownership to buy them for AUR and thus drive the MT economy. Because the more you guys buy from me, the more isk I have to buy AUR, the more AUR I buy the more plex go down the hole, thus CCP interfere with the plex market.


If you find it hard to see

A.how this differs from normal MT models.
B.How genius this is.
or
C.How they don't expect ANYONE to pay real money for AUR

your not thinking your just getting mad before connecting the dots.

CCP is not expecting people to purposely pay 15$ to buy items i bulk. They are purposely making the AUR market unattractive to normal buyers. They only want players rick in isk to buy plex to make AUR. Thus changing the plex market.

Is it a good idea? I don't know

Are they expecting players to spend 15$ real money JUST to get AUR? no, no they aren't.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.30 07:34:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
vanity items are not FROCED on anyone. the funny thing this vanity items are for apart of the game that isn't even forced on anyone. But I suppose that point is mute since they said ship paint jobs are coming.
the wildest part of all of this is that said items are mostly for a game expansion that bascialy will not be fully delivered for at least a year or so.

Basicaly, unless some mirical happens were going to be locked in our nice crapy rooms for months to come untill they can somehow get everyones PCs to render more than one character in that room without the thing turning into a slowmo slideshow and simultaniously putting out enough heat to melt aluminum.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 07:42:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: MotherMoon
vanity items are not FROCED on anyone. the funny thing this vanity items are for apart of the game that isn't even forced on anyone. But I suppose that point is mute since they said ship paint jobs are coming.
the wildest part of all of this is that said items are mostly for a game expansion that bascialy will not be fully delivered for at least a year or so.

Basicaly, unless some mirical happens were going to be locked in our nice crapy rooms for months to come untill they can somehow get everyones PCs to render more than one character in that room without the thing turning into a slowmo slideshow and simultaniously putting out enough heat to melt aluminum.


I still think it's important you note that currently on TQ you can buy, for cash, a non-vanity ingame advantage, with cash. So not only is the MT items for a part of the game that isn't important. People are *****ing about it when the importnat MT, PLEX for ISK has been around forever.


So if 15$ gives you 300 million isk it's ok. But if 15$ gives you 1000 T-shirts, it's unfair and game breakingRolling Eyes

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.30 07:55:00 - [46]
 

While the Plex prices might indeed rise initially, I do not think that the impact of Aurum will be that high. In the first month peoply will be some vanity stuff, many others will not purchase anything. Players gambling the Plex market with the release of Incarna will have a much higher effect but that will not last for long.

Aside from that, what is the difference of people selling lots of plex to purchase modules and ships. For the record people buying supercaps with plex is happening for a long time and is far more damaging than some pure vanity stuff like skirts or monocles is ever going to be.



CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.30 08:01:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Skydell
I am assuming you can only obtain Aurm from RMT? I can't sell another player Aurum for ISK?



Yep, you can.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.30 08:09:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Originally by: Skydell
I am assuming you can only obtain Aurm from RMT? I can't sell another player Aurum for ISK?


Yep, you can.

The most vital question being, how exactly.
If it's anything like the current share system ("donate and hope the other party pays you")... ungh.
On the other hand, if it's more like the market, or like contracts at least... that's ok.

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.05.30 08:09:00 - [49]
 

Let me summarize Akita's view on Aurum for those who still don't get it:

Aurum does not change ANYTHING, everything you have a problem with is related to PLEX sales, it is NOT related to Aurum.

I am totaly opposed to any influence of real money ingame (yes even PLEX) but Aurum does not have any influence on it.

What will happen: more demand for PLEX -> higher prices. But that is all.

Ami Nia
Posted - 2011.05.30 08:19:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Ami Nia on 30/05/2011 08:43:29
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Originally by: Skydell
I am assuming you can only obtain Aurm from RMT? I can't sell another player Aurum for ISK?


Yep, you can.

The most vital question being, how exactly.
If it's anything like the current share system ("donate and hope the other party pays you")... ungh.
On the other hand, if it's more like the market, or like contracts at least... that's ok.
Unless they change something it's similar to the shares.

Or more exactly similar to isks.

In the new client AUR is like isk. Open your wallet and instead of seeing an ISK balance you see two balances: ISKs and AURs.

Edit: just to clarify, you give AUR to another player exactly the way you give isks: the new "give money" dialog besides having the amount and reason fields now have a isk/aur radio button pair.

mkint
Posted - 2011.05.30 08:34:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos
Let me summarize Akita's view on Aurum for those who still don't get it:

Aurum does not change ANYTHING, everything you have a problem with is related to PLEX sales, it is NOT related to Aurum.

I am totaly opposed to any influence of real money ingame (yes even PLEX) but Aurum does not have any influence on it.

What will happen: more demand for PLEX -> higher prices. But that is all.

well, and the tacky "come buy me" super colored highlighted aur balance on the wallet and wallet hover-over, which is just a distasteful implementation. Seriously, if I wanted to live next to a paycheck loan pawn shop, I'd move to las vegas.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.05.30 08:42:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
While the Plex prices might indeed rise initially, I do not think that the impact of Aurum will be that high. In the first month peoply will be some vanity stuff, many others will not purchase anything. Players gambling the Plex market with the release of Incarna will have a much higher effect but that will not last for long.

Aside from that, what is the difference of people selling lots of plex to purchase modules and ships. For the record people buying supercaps with plex is happening for a long time and is far more damaging than some pure vanity stuff like skirts or monocles is ever going to be.



It was a closed loop. Every time someone bought a plex for money, someone needed to turn it in for game time. Not right away of course, but if a lot of PLEX found its way to the market it would put pressure on the PLEX price and make it less worthwhile.

Aurum adds extra functionality to PLEX so they will make it more worthwhile to sell a PLEX for ISK, because there will be higher demand. This effect is in addition to the exisiting value. You could say that you get more ISK for each dollar spent, or you get less game time for each ISK spent.

The introduction of Aurum will give people who buy supercaps for PLEX a better conversion rate.

If we make the assumption that no one ever buys anything in the shop, it will be neutral and everything would be the same as before, with the normal fluctations caused by other factors of course.


In addition to this there is a subtle PLEX sink, because items bought for Aurum are destructible. So PLEX is not in a closed loop of buying PLEX / redeeming it for game time anymore.

Ami Nia
Posted - 2011.05.30 08:53:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
In addition to this there is a subtle PLEX sink, because items bought for Aurum are destructible. So PLEX is not in a closed loop of buying PLEX / redeeming it for game time anymore.
It hasn't been in a closed loop for a while because PLEXes themself are destructible. Check what aystra had in cargo when slickdog and Viktor Vegas destroyed her in Jita last august and you'll see 74 PLEXes that escaped that closed loop in a single boom.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.05.30 09:01:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
In addition to this there is a subtle PLEX sink, because items bought for Aurum are destructible. So PLEX is not in a closed loop of buying PLEX / redeeming it for game time anymore.
It hasn't been in a closed loop for a while because PLEXes themself are destructible. Check what aystra had in cargo when slickdog and Viktor Vegas destroyed her in Jita last august and you'll see 74 PLEXes that escaped that closed loop in a single boom.


Thats true, but CCP did also add the reverse-redeeming option, so that there is no practical reason to put a PLEX in a cargo hold. It can still be done if someone insists on taking the risk.
It seemed to me that they didn't do this to make a PLEX sink, but did it for technical reasons. In the case of Aurums it looks like they intend to make a sink.

Morpheus Mishima
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.30 09:03:00 - [55]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/faq/faq_02.asp

Quote:
But I already bought the game. Why do I have to pay a subscription fee? Your subscription fee gives you unlimited access to the EVE Online servers, website, and customer support. Unlike console games where you are purchasing the game as-is, the development of EVE as a persistent world is ongoing with frequent updates to add new features and improve your gameplay experience. Subscriptions allow us to continue making EVE bigger and better as well as paying our staff their monthly wages. CCP does not charge extra for game expansions.


So... Aurum is going to be "free"? Just like the "free" Dust 514 EXPANSION ?

Ami Nia
Posted - 2011.05.30 09:24:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Thats true, but CCP did also add the reverse-redeeming option, so that there is no practical reason to put a PLEX in a cargo hold. It can still be done if someone insists on taking the risk.
I fail to see how reverse redeeming relates to putting plexes in cargo holds.

Also the only practical reason to put a PLEX in a cargo hold is to move it to a different region for resale (buy in a region with lower prices and sell in one with higher prices). There has never been any other reason but that to do it, regardless of reverse-redeeming.

mkint
Posted - 2011.05.30 09:34:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
In addition to this there is a subtle PLEX sink, because items bought for Aurum are destructible. So PLEX is not in a closed loop of buying PLEX / redeeming it for game time anymore.
It hasn't been in a closed loop for a while because PLEXes themself are destructible. Check what aystra had in cargo when slickdog and Viktor Vegas destroyed her in Jita last august and you'll see 74 PLEXes that escaped that closed loop in a single boom.


Thats true, but CCP did also add the reverse-redeeming option, so that there is no practical reason to put a PLEX in a cargo hold. It can still be done if someone insists on taking the risk.
It seemed to me that they didn't do this to make a PLEX sink, but did it for technical reasons. In the case of Aurums it looks like they intend to make a sink.

All reverse redeeming does is allow you to use a in-game plex, for out of game services like character transfers. You cannot buy a plex in one place, reverse redeem it, then redeem it somewhere else. If you want to trade between hubs, or bring some to your alliance in 0.0, you still need to load them up in a ship and move them the old fashioned way. plexes aren't cheap by any means, but they are a high demand trade good anywhere in EVE, and are still cheaper than high-end implants and officer modules for high-end trading. Reverse redeeming does nothing to close the loop. Movable PLEXes was merely another method to "consume" PLEX and thus drive price potential, and thus demand, up. Same with AUR... more consumption methods = higher price potential = higher demand = more $. Any PLEX sink is a $ faucet for CCP.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2011.05.30 09:58:00 - [58]
 

I feel this is a point that needs to be pointed out as plainly as I can speak it. Let me first state that I am very heavily against any form of "After-subscription-content-payment" scheme, be it Microtransactions or some second-cousin-twice-removed mangled variant thereof.

Just because you can exchange the items in-game after the exchange of real money to attain them initially has occurred, does not make it any better than a scheme where only the people who use their real money to obtain them possess them. It makes it no nobler, nor does it change what it is. Greed.

I understand that CCP probably put a lot of thought into this considering just how thoroughly the community DENIED them their last proposal on Microtransactions, and how much damage control the community guys had to apply. You probably thought of a billion and one ways that you could sugar coat them so that the community was just distracted enough to slide it past them, and ultimately it was a good plan. Tacking them onto plex is about as solid as it gets, considering how many are in the economy and how many people see them as a straight isk > gametime conversion.

If anything, this system is a step lower than microtransactions themselves, because while in most other games microtransactions equate to something you buy once and get to keep for ever (World of Warcraft equivalent being the non-combat pets and the Winged Steed mount) these actually promote repeat offenders.

So yeah, the new slogan for CCP should probably be "We won't charge for expansions, but we will charge you for the very clothes off your back!". Good job on lowering yourselfs so far CCP.

Sugar coated **** still tastes like ****, it's just slightly sweeter and depending on the lighting, sparkly.

Say no to sparkly ****. Say no to Aurum.

Skydell
Caldari
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2011.05.30 10:08:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Originally by: Skydell
I am assuming you can only obtain Aurm from RMT? I can't sell another player Aurum for ISK?



Yep, you can.




My original intuitions were off. PLEX profit stacking only gets easier now because every time you guys add new trinkets to the Aurum seed base, the PLEX market will have a chance to spike. Because Aurum can be used as a currency of its own and the Aurum products are all seeded, Aurum items will be flat.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.05.30 10:22:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: mkint

All reverse redeeming does is allow you to use a in-game plex, for out of game services like character transfers. You cannot buy a plex in one place, reverse redeem it, then redeem it somewhere else. If you want to trade between hubs, or bring some to your alliance in 0.0, you still need to load them up in a ship and move them the old fashioned way. plexes aren't cheap by any means, but they are a high demand trade good anywhere in EVE, and are still cheaper than high-end implants and officer modules for high-end trading. Reverse redeeming does nothing to close the loop. Movable PLEXes was merely another method to "consume" PLEX and thus drive price potential, and thus demand, up. Same with AUR... more consumption methods = higher price potential = higher demand = more $. Any PLEX sink is a $ faucet for CCP.


Then I stand corrected.

And I will add that I think that is a pretty low thing for CCP to do. I originally compared destructible PLEXes with scamming on CCPs side, and I stand by that.
Seems I was of the false impression that CCP tried to avoid PLEXes being destroyed. Thanks for clearing this up.

If this is really the case I will need to reconsider my subscription. I don't support real life scamming attempts like these out of principle.


Pages: 1 [2] 3

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only