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Mica Swanhaven
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:05:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Originally by: Gogela
2 questions:

1) So if your cloths are lost when you are podded, is there any way to recover cloths from frozen bodies? ('do they drop' would be another way to ask that) There should be. I want to wear only the bloody rags of my victims.

2) If I install a stripper pole and stripper and a fish tank, are they waiting for me in my captains quarters in every station I dock, or just the one they were installed at?

Arrow CCP?




The items in your cargo hold get treated all the same. That could drop and be looted by another player. Or they could be lost.

But if you are wearing them and the ship gets destroyed and you get podded, you will lose what you are wearing and there is no chance of looting. In other words, we are copying the experience of flying with implants. Also, jump clones may come in handy again.

We don't have the furnishings for captain's quarters yet. Let's save that for the future. It's its own full subject.


But can I get undressed each and every time I undock?

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:05:00 - [242]
 

No, CCP.

No microtransactions.

None at all. Not one.

Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Eve Industrial Corp
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:06:00 - [243]
 

Living outside a pos has never looked so much fun. Now let us refine ore in empire space and those that don't even want to be asked if they want to disable Incarna/Dress up will be able to play internet spaceship game the way it's meant to be played.

That said, I'm looking forward to the holodeck version of Eve in about 50 years time. Hopefully I'll be as compos mentis as I am now, if not more so with medical advancements.

Nishachara
True Enlightenment
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:07:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Nishachara on 27/05/2011 16:07:10
Originally by: MotherMoon

but whatever it is it has to be cheap. the bigger the price different between isk to plex>A the better the system might work.

I should be able to buy like 30 items with one plex.


I agree...

also...

Imho there should also be left some "realism" / logic ...
When converted to isk one jacket cant cost as much as one frigate...
or a gun...

Its simply stupid/hilarious/dumb...

Maybe if you could buy "packages" of 10/20 jackets/shirts/pants that would be better, and it would ease the loss of said items when podded a bit...

So for example if for one plex you could buy 50 or so different packages of different items it would be ok...

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:07:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: CCP Hammer

Nice post, I'll quote it. We've been doing all this work to put avatars in the game because many many people told us they weren't immersed without an avatar. I just found it strange that this would be considered immersion breaking.


The avatars are not immersion breaking. making us pay RL money for the clothing they wear IS immersion breaking.
Also making the avatar appear in station fully clothed the instant we dock every time we dock is INCREDIBLY immersion breaking. if as you say the point of avatars is more immersion then this Fails spectacularly.
I have been looking forward to Incarna for some time, and now its actually coming, almost every post and new revelation you bring makes me want it LESS.

Make CQ OPTIONAL on docking (ie we dock as normal then can chose to get out our pods, with decanting video as an option)
Don't do stupid RL money microtransactions.
Don't remove what limited clothing options we already have so you can make more money.
Do allow the manufacture and selling of clothing for isk.
Do allow us to quickly change clothes without updating out portrait.
Do take the extra time and delay launch if that's what's needed to achieve this.

SamuelK
Natural Selection.
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:08:00 - [246]
 

WOW! i'm so happy IMVU has finally come to eve online! i can't wait to play dress up with my friends! everyone in my corp can have matching pink ships with.. OMG MLPONIES on them! OH-MY-GAWD!

such ***gotry.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:09:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah
Make CQ OPTIONAL on docking (ie we dock as normal then can chose to get out our pods, with decanting video as an option)
Don't do stupid RL money microtransactions.
Don't remove what limited clothing options we already have so you can make more money.
Do allow the manufacture and selling of clothing for isk.
Do allow us to quickly change clothes without updating out portrait.
Do take the extra time and delay launch if that's what's needed to achieve this.


Everything this man has said is absolutely true. Prove to us that you still have what it takes to make this game great and follow his advice, CCP.

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:09:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
No, CCP.

No microtransactions.

None at all. Not one.


Oh come on! It makes it more fun! Now when you kill somebody you might be destroying something they can closer equate to RL money! The tears will be so much sweeter! EvE is always changing. Just enjoy the ride.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:10:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 27/05/2011 16:13:05
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 27/05/2011 15:45:28
Originally by: CCP GingerDude
Originally by: Versuvius Marii
I'd say why not just make these items buyable with isk, but we all know you're pushing people to spend RL isk on PLEX. And thus, microtransactions finally make it to Eve.



You'll be able to buy these items on the regular market with ISK, provided someone is willing to sell it to you.



...

CCP

...

sigh ok please for the love of god reply to what I am going to ask.



I take isk, and convert it to plex. I convert plex to Atrum*whatever it's called*
Now I buy a jacket for 10 Atrum which is equal to about 200,000 isk

Now I go to the market and I try to sell it for say... 300,000 isk


why would anyone buy it when they could buy it from your store for 200,000 isk?

maybe I'm missing some little genius design plan here...


Not every player values ISK the same. Some are rich. Some are working hard each week to earn enough to pay for their accounts. Some are buying PLEX to fund their ISK needs.

If you offer folks something for X Aurum or Y ISK, you will get folks who find each attractive.


In light of this I can see it might have merit.

but then hopefully there is a real advantage to using Aurum. If say there is an item that cost one plex's wroth of Aurum, I hope you see that price would be impossible to sell on the arket. Since it's 1 for 1. 300il isk for one plex for one Mt item.

however if you go the working man/rich player thing. with MT items costing in the 100,000's of isk, then there could be a real market for them.

I should be able to buy like 30 items with one plex.



So yes I feel a little better now. but I still think buying instead of a new ship color, a blueprint makes more sense. but that's just my opinion. As in if I buy a stencil, I could paint it all of my ships. Or charge others to let me paint my stencil on them.

but ok we'll wee how it goes it's quite as bad as 1st glance.

Quote:
Maybe if you could buy "packages" of 10/20 jackets/shirts/pants that would be better, and it would ease the loss of said items when podded a bit...


that is another similar but limited way of fixing it. unlike my idea it's not infinite use like a bp so people will a reason to buy more.

Yeah I think I like the bulk idea better. but at same time I think a jacket costing 20,000 isk is a good price. make them easier to sell on the market for isk too. And the more they sell on the market the more will market men will buy from the bulk store.

Jesspa
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:10:00 - [250]
 

I very much doubt I'll be buying any 'vanity' items so I don't really care, but I do find the idea of a second currency to be a bit poor from a 'lore' point of view, even if it makes sense practically. Also, I can't quite understand why I'd pay 10m ISK for a pair of boots which, if I really wanted them, I could purchase by getting my own PLEX and paying the 'wholesale' price, with the rest of the ISK to spare.

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:11:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Not every player values ISK the same. Some are rich. Some are working hard each week to earn enough to pay for their accounts. Some are buying PLEX to fund their ISK needs.

If you offer folks something for X Aurum or Y ISK, you will get folks who find each attractive.


Agreed. Just one question. What is plural of Aurum? You know how folks treat currency denominators in language, I understand the origin, but I can't say I'm convinced on Aurum as best option Crying or Very sad


Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:12:00 - [252]
 

So, to clarify - clothing is localised like items are, and wear have clothing that you bought in System A, in System B - you must transport it there - on your body(in your pod), or in your cargohold?

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:13:00 - [253]
 

Quick question - can we have saved configurations for our vanity items, because if you have your ship all custom modified and it gets blown up, I'd like to quickly apply that style to another ship of the same type. Like logos and things.

Same goes for clothing configurations, we need a way to save our outfits and hair/tattoo options to easily switch between them for different occasions.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:13:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: CCP Hammer
Originally by: Katrishar
Again, I think this system sounds awesome. Quick question though.... When we go down to just having 1 "noob ship" style default outfit after being podded, will there be the other character customization screen outfit choices available for "cheap?" In general will you have cheap and expensive clothes? I vote for this.
Short answer is yes. This first pass is simply a tracer bullet to gauge response. The future vision is that after being podded you will wake up in a clone bay in a medical gown. Then you will get your free orange noobie overalls (or whatever we come up with) but there will be all sorts of inexpensive stuff on offer to change into or maybe you weren't wearing your favorite stuff anyway and you can just put that one.


You mean that when we get poded we get a super advanced Jove tech POD we get for free, and the (admittedly crap) warship we get for free, but we don't get to have any decent clothing unless we pay rl money for it???

Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:16:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Originally by: Katrishar
Again, I think this system sounds awesome. Quick question though.... When we go down to just having 1 "noob ship" style default outfit after being podded, will there be the other character customization screen outfit choices available for "cheap?" In general will you have cheap and expensive clothes? I vote for this.
Short answer is yes. This first pass is simply a tracer bullet to gauge response. The future vision is that after being podded you will wake up in a clone bay in a medical gown. Then you will get your free orange noobie overalls (or whatever we come up with) but there will be all sorts of inexpensive stuff on offer to change into or maybe you weren't wearing your favorite stuff anyway and you can just put that one.


You mean that when we get poded we get a super advanced Jove tech POD we get for free, and the (admittedly crap) warship we get for free, but we don't get to have any decent clothing unless we pay rl money for it???


Pay IRL cash or be forever wearing only underwear Laughing.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:16:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Jesspa
I very much doubt I'll be buying any 'vanity' items so I don't really care, but I do find the idea of a second currency to be a bit poor from a 'lore' point of view, even if it makes sense practically. Also, I can't quite understand why I'd pay 10m ISK for a pair of boots which, if I really wanted them, I could purchase by getting my own PLEX and paying the 'wholesale' price, with the rest of the ISK to spare.


actually I can answer this! despite being the one on the other end the fence a second ago.

for the same reason everyone could go to cash and carry *real life store* and buy steak at 1.50$ a pound. I mean you need to buy 15 lbs but you can put it in little baggies when you get home.

Most people are just stupid and will pay more for something for less of it.

the super market still sells meat at 5$ a pound for the same cut as cash and carry sells at less than half the price.



also bottles of soda

Kaahles
Deliverers of Pain
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:17:00 - [257]
 

First of all let me say that I'm not a fan of micro transaction in subscription based games. It's a good thing for free to play MMO's but not so cool for a subscription based game since I already pay to play it. On the other hand I can understand why CCP want's some extra money out of this. CCP is a business after all, and they do stuff to make money. Nothing wrong with that. Creating good, high quality 3D assets, especially in character based environments is a lot of work with countless of work hours going into it. It's not like they graphical artists grow on trees and don't need to be paid. So either get a few good items for free or a larger amount of them but not so free anymore. Somewhat of a good old fashioned “Catch 22” here. No matter how it's done people will always whine, complain and rage about it.

Enough sucking up done for the day, now let the rants begin. There is still some stuff that needs serious consideration here.

What would be nice to know is how much you actually think people should pay for say pair of pants? A rough guesstimate would be nice. A million for a pair of pants? Shirts in the 2-digit millions? Or probably less? DON'T make it like Portal 2 where a friggn' 5 pixel large hat costs you 5 bucks.

From a realism standpoint it's okay that you actually lose the clothes you're wearing when you die horribly in an explosion. It's also acceptable to do so on a business standpoint because if people buy stuff all the time but nothing goes broke ever then at some point nobody needs to buy anything anymore.
But at the same time it's stupid. Why so? It'll result in one of two things for a lot of the players out there (excluding ridiculously rich guys who don't know what to do with their money):

A) people will run to the mirror and change their appearance to incorporate “free stuff only” every time before they undock from station which is annoying at best. (If that isn't even possible we have a really massive issue here)

B) People who buy stuff for their characters do not want to go out into regions were they could possibly get podded easily. In particular it even increases the barrier of entry into PVP for some people (even more so for noobs).

Oh and about that free stuff. Let me look were do I have that quote... ah there it is:

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel

We don't intend to keep offering the full free clothing line each time you step into the character creator. Eventually you will see just the one free set and whatever clothing you have acquired.



What I read here is the following: “The free clothes now available in the character creation will no longer be accessible in the character re-customization. They'll be only available upon creating a character for the first time and once you're done with that you can only select the bought/acquired stuff or your default-stuff which you've selected upon character creation”.

If that is so. That is really stupid and total b... ah let's not go there. My personal opinion is that they should be available all the time to anyone. Why put all the work into them and then remove it again / restrict access?

Another thing about free stuff: Am I right to assume that you plan to continuously keep creating new stuff for us to buy? If so please throw us a bone once in a while and do still some free stuff.

Are there some sort of sales and/or free holiday/celebratory giveaways planned within the shop (or maybe even AUR giveaways) much like the unique ships or snowballs in the past? Don't get me wrong although I find most of the gift-ships pretty useless in actual gameplay I still love to have them and hope you guys continue making them but the above would be a nice thing to augment such giveaways.

I would rant/rage/ask more but I just realized this post is too long already... so maybe more later.

Oh and btw get rid of that stupid name for the new currency. Aurum... really? I mean yeah I get it. It's the Latin word for Gold but that makes it even worse...

Junko Sideswipe
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:17:00 - [258]
 

I will pay 10 plex if you make me a pair of cat ears and a cat tail. CoolCoolCool

Axon Atom
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:18:00 - [259]
 

As long as the prices this stuff resales for on the isk market is low enough that a new players to buy it's a good idea.


Axhind
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:19:00 - [260]
 

Now that eve is moving towards paying twice in order to play (I guess people are learning from media industry) what is going to happen with VAT/taxes and so on? As the stuff in game will have real money value I would not be surprised if tax authorities start making their voice heard. Would hardly be the first one especially in Europe where all online commerce is already taxed.

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:20:00 - [261]
 

If I get podded wearing my Quafe t-shirt from "Fanfest" will I lose it forever? How will CCP handle limited edition items?

CCP Sisyphus


C C P
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:20:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: Gogela

Fair enough. Followup:

If I take off my cloths and put on my 'orange overalls' and get podded and my jump clone is on the other side of the galaxy from where I changed my cloths at, are my cloths waiting for me there? Essentially what I'm asking is do the cloths you buy follow you around eve in your captains quarters closet or are they only available where you purchased them? (sorry not sure if I'm making sense here...)


The current functionality is - the new "store clothing" assets are items. The best behavior to liken them to is implants that happen to be removable.

If you take of your expensive clothes, they appear in your hangar (in Jita for example).
If you fly to pator, well, those clothes are still in Jita.
If you want to have a spare set, you (or someone) needs to transport the clothes the old fashioned way.

Alemana Hockeystick
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:20:00 - [263]
 

A couple of observations:

1. Selling of goods result in either removal of ISK from the game (ISK -> PLEX -> AUR -> vanity goods) or injection of $ to CCP's bank account ($ -> PLEX).

2. The prices of the vanity goods will be set by CCP for a couple of possible purposes: how much extra income CCP wants to generate, or how quickly CCP wants to remove ISK from the game.

Still unclear to me why a new currency, AUR, is needed. Will AUR be transferable between characters, or will unspent AUR be destroyed when characters are biomassed?

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:21:00 - [264]
 

Ill pay 5 plex for a /dance command to annoy the crap out of people with.




Master Tron
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:22:00 - [265]
 

So let me make myself clear.
2 years ago PLEX price was around 200mil isk, now the index of the plex has gone up by 50% so now we are looking price in market 400mil isk.
Other way to get plex is with RL money, we convert GTC to PLEX. This will be as it is and it will not have any change. If now we take AUR in what is made from PLEX. PLEX price will go up from 400mil to 600mil isk and in next 2 years the price will go even more up... about half of the users in this game use PLEX to play this game. Meaning isk you make and buy PLEX keeps your users in this game (key: "you don't need to pay any RL money to play this game"). If you take AUR in then AUR will push PLEX price up and push GTC (60days gamecards price to isk) up with 50%.
So in the end people don't buy PLEX, but the better option will be under GTC (it gives CCP more RL money). GTC price will go now up to 1,2bil and people who can not afford to make 1,2bil in 60days (we are not robots) will just quit this game (or you have more issues with bots). Only ones who will stay in this game are the ones with huge wallet on Credit Cards.

Good job CCP, you will lose 50% of players who wanted to play this game. Now there is only ones left who buy this game with RL money. If they decide that eve is bad they don't buy the GTC anymore and now eve online will be at point where ballance is what the customers do, if they keep leaving, (remember the ones who play this game basicly free has friend who buy GTC - buddy program) then this game will go upside down.

BUT before you call me an idiot, if you manage to control the PLEX / ISK value as it is, then this game is doing fine, but you need to not just keep eye on it, but to work very hard times on it! There is always someone who want to make more ISK.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:24:00 - [266]
 

Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 27/05/2011 16:23:46
Originally by: CCP Sisyphus
The current functionality is - the new "store clothing" assets are items. The best behavior to liken them to is implants that happen to be removable.

If you take of your expensive clothes, they appear in your hangar (in Jita for example).
If you fly to pator, well, those clothes are still in Jita.
If you want to have a spare set, you (or someone) needs to transport the clothes the old fashioned way.


No. DO NOT do this.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:24:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos
Why the new currency if I can buy a PLEX with isk and then convert to PLEX to the new currency?



Yes, with ISK freely convertible to Aurum - just buy a PLEX - and Aurum convertible back to ISK via the market (sell the stuff you bought fo Aurm), there's no logical reason to have Aurum at all. The vanity store shop should just be priced in ISK.

It is a needless complication to have. It achieves nothing.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:24:00 - [268]
 

Will the custom paint job be listed in the killmail?

Sister Megarea
Sisters of Agony
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:25:00 - [269]
 

On Immersion Breaking

The reason the whole Aurum thing is immersion breaking is pretty simple: It's not plausible.

The #1 rule of good sci-fi is that whatever you're writing about (or doing a tv show, video game, etc) doesn't have to be possible but it must be plausible.

Find me something on Earth that is for sale, but not for sale in $local_currency. You can't. If I, a Canadian, want to buy something from a US website, I convert my dollars directly to US dollars and make the purchase. There isn't any example where I am told "I'm sorry, but you can't use dollars, no matter how you convert it, to buy this. You MUST use Quatloos. And to get Quatloos, you have to use Proxima Centauri Credits, obtainable only at your local Proxima Centauri branch, conveniently located in the Proxima Centauri system, 4.2 light years from Earth. We look forward to doing business with you".

Immersion breaking - Two currencies

In Eve, the currency is ISK. If I wish to buy a Mining Laser I, I do it with ISK. If I desire a Nighthawk, I purchase it with ISK. If I desire a Leviathan, I purchase it with ISK. If I have a hankerin' for 1000 units of exotic dancers, I purchase it with ISK. If I want fifteen command centers for planetary interaction, I purchase them with ISK.

I'm not against CCP making money - Far from it: The more profitable they are, the better the game gets; I get that. But this isn't even an attempt at creating additional revenue within the spirit of the game, it's just out-and-out RMT by CCP.

Immersion breaking - Prices

In addition to the whole idea of Aurum being completely unrealistic and immersion-breaking, will be the additional immersion breaker of the prices of the clothing items when they do hit the stores:

5 million ISK for a monocle - Seriously, guys ?
10 million ISK for a top hat ?
20 million ISK for a pair of ripped jean shorts ?

For five million ISK, I can buy, for example, a Thorax, a 11,280 metric ton cruiser with enough firepower to take out a modern (Earth) metropolis in about ten minutes. And for the same price, you're going to tell me that I can buy an eye patch just so I can say "Yarr! YARRRR!!" with a little more authenticity ?

Come on, guys, surely you can come up with a revenue generator and ISK sink a helluva lot better than this; I would have expected a lot better from CCP :(

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.05.27 16:25:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: CCP Sisyphus
Originally by: Gogela

Fair enough. Followup:

If I take off my cloths and put on my 'orange overalls' and get podded and my jump clone is on the other side of the galaxy from where I changed my cloths at, are my cloths waiting for me there? Essentially what I'm asking is do the cloths you buy follow you around eve in your captains quarters closet or are they only available where you purchased them? (sorry not sure if I'm making sense here...)


The current functionality is - the new "store clothing" assets are items. The best behavior to liken them to is implants that happen to be removable.

If you take of your expensive clothes, they appear in your hangar (in Jita for example).
If you fly to pator, well, those clothes are still in Jita.
If you want to have a spare set, you (or someone) needs to transport the clothes the old fashioned way.


Is this also the same for limited edition things like the "Quafe T-Shirt" from the Fanfest event?


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