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Leah Solo
Posted - 2011.05.27 22:59:00 - [511]
 

Edited by: Leah Solo on 27/05/2011 23:03:29
Edited by: Leah Solo on 27/05/2011 23:02:52
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk

Tying Aurum to plex is a bad idea. PERIOD - plex prices are going though the roof now and will most likely never come down. They are starting to break past 400 million, and YOU WILL / ARE losing people who can only afford to play the game with plex. EITHER put a price cap on plex, or lose more people.



This..O-M-F-G this!! Shocked

A year ago, when i started, bought my first PLEX for under 300 mil! Now it's closing to 450 mil! Sad

As I live in a ****ty little country with it's own currency, 60 day GTC, when converted costs me 50 USD. And being a student, that just ain't affordable. So please don't make plex pilots grind even more for the game we love..FFS!

Quote:
- Mictrotransactions are not the best idea in the world, how do we know you will keep your word and keep them limited to vanity items only. Nathan or Hillmar need to flat out stake their reps on this one and publicly say this.


Also this..slippery slope is slippery!




Kolya Medz
Gallente
PyroStorm Enforcers
STR8NGE BREW
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:12:00 - [512]
 

This is a HORRIBLE idea. Look in the mirror CCP, you and EVE are slowly turning into "just another MMO..." :(

This is a player driven game. Always has been, always SHOULD be.

Vanity items should be producible through planetary interaction. There would be more incentive to actually train those skills lol.



But honestly. CCP needs to focus their resources on things like: balance, graphics, content, lolsec, ya know, EVE itself?!) NOT more WoWtard magnets.




kilohertz
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:14:00 - [513]
 

Edited by: kilohertz on 27/05/2011 23:26:51
Originally by: Soden Rah
Make CQ OPTIONAL on docking (ie we dock as normal then can chose to get out our pods, with decanting video as an option)
Don't do stupid RL money microtransactions.
Don't remove what limited clothing options we already have so you can make more money.
Do allow the manufacture and selling of clothing for isk.
Do allow us to quickly change clothes without updating out portrait.
Do take the extra time and delay launch if that's what's needed to achieve this.


This!

I also love the Plex prices in Jita today.

Excellent threadnought!

Oh and

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Originally by: Liu Ellens
That's nice and all - But I've got a more pressing topic to be covered:

How do you pronounce that? Espececially the short form? Can you say it like a word or are letters needed (ay-you-arr)?



"or um"


Ori? Secret introduction of Goa'uld for next expansion?

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:15:00 - [514]
 

Wait, so you're supposed to be able to get your PLEX for dirt cheap?! No offense, but those PLEX are bought by real people with real cash and they deserve to get their money's worth as well.

You start making PLEX dirt cheap and you'll start finding it disappearing from the market altogether because nobody will buy the GTC.

People aren't taking into account here is that like all things on the market, PLEX has a way of balancing itself. As more people turn PLEX into aurum, the prices will rise causing more people to by GTC and sell for isk, causing PLEX to drop. It's all cyclical and will balance itself out as it should.

Everything else being said here is either subjective or alarmist bull**** based on fear. CCP is not about to let the PLEX market collapse as it would mean an impairment to their own cash flow. Do any of you really think CCP is going to let that happen?!

Get a clue and some common sense and stop drinking the paranoid koolaid FFS.

Kara Balveda
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:16:00 - [515]
 

Edited by: Kara Balveda on 27/05/2011 23:49:15
Bad idea.

The compromise of using GTCs to create AURUM directly sounds at least like a way to prevent PLEX from going through the roof.

Mooney92
Minmatar
nul-li-fy
B O R G
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:16:00 - [516]
 

Edited by: Mooney92 on 27/05/2011 23:16:49
Originally by: Larissa Sunsorrow
Originally by: Mooney92
History repeats itself. Always. What is history repeating here? Cash shops, in pay to play games. History shows as soon as cash shops are introduced into a pay to play game, it is only a matter of time until it turns into a pay to win scenario. Today its clothes, tomorrow it's probes that scan cloaky ships. This is a bad move. Make the clothes, and give it to us for free. Don't **** your vets and everyone other player in eve by trying to make an extra buck on clothes. Especially under the bull**** pretense of it costing money and thus we need more money. Straight up lies.


looks like you mistyped your nickname, mr. monkey92.
but.. monkeys can actually comprehend something.


Stop being amarr then come talk to me skipper.

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:25:00 - [517]
 

Originally by: Kara Balveda
This is stupid. If AURUM is just part of a PLEX, then you should really just sell the stuff for ISK.

Of course, the prices will then vary a bit, according to the current PLEX price, but since PLEX prices are staying in a fairly stable and small price range, this should be no major problem. Hell, if it was, you could just as well adjust ISK prices daily at downtime, according to the weighted average PLEX price on the major trade hubs. Then you would get exactly the same amount of real money for the goods as with AURUM, and you would save us the hassle of an additional currency. And it would mean EVE will still look much better than those games with a special micro-transaction currency do - just because PLEX is so awesome, and well accepted by the player base.

Please, think about this, do not add a new currency w/o any need for it!


Here, let me explain this for you in small words. The Aurum is a way to keep track of the purchases separately and allow you to use little parts of the PLEX rather than one whole PLEX per purchase. If you don't include the PLEX into the equation, CCP makes no money on the process which negates the entire thing as a whole.

They have to use PLEX to consume PLEX, thereby requiring more PLEX to be brought into the market by buyers. They have to turn the PLEX into something other than isk because isk can be earned from doing anything in game which in turn nets them zero profit and if you don't break up the PLEX into Aurum, or credits or mini ****ing PLEXES, you would have to use the whole thing on one purchase.

Do you get it yet?

Samuel Miner
Caldari
Perilous Expedition
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:29:00 - [518]
 

Only disappointed since I was hoping all incarna things would be craftable like everything else in the game. Whats next, AUR for drakes?

Sister Megarea
Sisters of Agony
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:30:00 - [519]
 

Originally by: LordElfa

That makes no sense man, why leave over something that hasn't even been implemented yet and even when implemented won't have any real impact on the game other than the ability for more individuality and perhaps a change in PLEX prices for better or worse? Wait until its in action before making a rash decision.

Also, to the 2 previous posters, this doesn't screw over play to pay in any way. I hate blanket statements that assume the worst in everything. And second, what part of Vanity did you not understand? Ships aren't vanity man, paint jobs are. Hell, if they were going to do ships for MT, even I would have a fit.


Have you not heard of the Butterfly effect ? (Heck, CCP even made a commercial about it )

Vanity players want to buy uber pimp stuff, and they're willing to pay large for it. This drives up the cost of the vanity stuff, which can only be originally purchased by PLEX.

PLEX prices go up, making those who play to pay work longer and harder to make up the ISK, including upping the prices they sell for, which impacts the everyday players who haven't heard of or care about Incarna stuff. They see the rise in prices of commodities, however, and are forced to raise their prices to keep their margins.

And so on and so forth.

This is really basic economics 101. Hell, we're seeing this in North America (if not the world over) right now with fuel prices: They go up and the oil companies ring in a nice profit - Unfortunately, it means that literally everything else goes up, because it takes fuel to manufacture and transport items to market - From bananas to carpets to cars to bricks.

Tying micropayment stuff to PLEX is a really, really bad idea.

Just to be clear:

Micropayment and vanity stuff: good
TYING the above to the PLEX system: BAD

Talin Ransara
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:33:00 - [520]
 

Edited by: Talin Ransara on 27/05/2011 23:34:50
I'm definitely not against this system, anything that gives the Developers money to do what they need to do to make the game better (Here's too hoping they do use this system to the betterment of the game, I have faith) I support, even if I have to pay extra.

I'm realistic, as much as I'd love for everything to be free, MMO's cost money. They need money to keep improving.

The only thing I find hinky though and while I know we have yet to see it officially in action or how the system will be balanced, I don't like the Idea that the clothing bought with Aurum will be losable. However that dislike comes without knowing the amount of clothing Items you get from spending Aurum, and how much Aurum it takes to buy Clothing.

I'm hoping that Spending the Aurum buys the clothing in decent quantities, to keep the price ISK price of Clothing reasonable.

Also ship paint Jobs falls into the same category, I wont mind Spending the Aurum to buy customizable Paint Jobs for ships, but considering the transitory nature of Ships, there needs to be an alternate way of being able to paint those after the Paint Job is percussed by either Aurum or ISK.

I like the Idea a Dev mentioned earlier of buying the Paint Job either by ISK, or Aurum, then buying being able to buy Nanopaint for ISK off the market.

In any case I will wait to see the Amounts that come from Spending Aurum, If clothing costs 1 or 10 Aurum for a a bundle of 10 or 20 of whatever clothing item your buying then I'll be happy to shell out my ISK (For PLEX) or Hard cash to buy Aurum.

Arzi Taila
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:35:00 - [521]
 

Originally by: Sister Megarea

Just to be clear:

Micropayment and vanity stuff: good
TYING the above to the PLEX system: BAD


I'm stressing this, once again, to all of the people who think they support this idea.

A direct payment model for clothing and such would be fine, but muddling up ingame currency to do it is not going to be beneficial to the game.

Most people aren't complaining about buying clothes, it's the way they're bought and the process that doesn't sit well with them.

Cosmoes
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:42:00 - [522]
 

Edited by: Cosmoes on 27/05/2011 23:47:14
Ok theres one thing that disturbs me after reading through the entire thread
Quote:

You can still buy the items with isk, so it isn't really a cash shop/pay wall. You aren't forced to pay real money you can just use isk.



Why does this disturb me? Cause thats pretty much is the perfect justification for adding any game effecting items to the Aurum shop.

Say they decide to add the Tribal Issue Tempest to the Aurum system. You would still be able to buy the item on the market so it isn't unbalanced, anyone can just buy it off someone who bought it through the the Aurum system so you aren't forced to pay any real life $ for it.

Or how about the ability to change your character to a Jove, with benefits like being able to enter Jove space and fly Jove ships all through the Aurum system. Even if that isn't trade able over the market you can still buy a GTC for isk and then use that to buy Aurum and then buy it all through in game stuff so it isn't unbalanced and isn't a real pay wall.


EDIT: I r spell awesome

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:45:00 - [523]
 

I think you should listen to your players, CCP.

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:51:00 - [524]
 

Renan Ruivo points to STO's Galaxy-X dreadnaught with uber-phaser cannon of doom, death and destruction from hell. Available exclusivelly at their cash store.

STO is pay to play.

STO said there would only be vanity itens on their store.

Levaria
Gallente
Incertae Sedis
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:55:00 - [525]
 

Really? FFS...Why do we need a second currency? The good idea fairy been drinkin the special kool aid and CCP Listened? How about focusing on other broken features in the game that have been lacking for ages..FW, Sov Warfare, COSMOS etc..the list goes on. This is the last thing this game needs is currency that needs to be grinded for and bought and broken down with PLEX.


Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
R-I-P
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:57:00 - [526]
 

Originally by: CCP Hammer
Originally by: Sigvald Gottschalk
Edited by: Sigvald Gottschalk on 27/05/2011 14:40:56
Originally by: Morar Santee
CCP has answered it: the items are to raise money. That raised money could be used to develop the ideas you mention. However, I happen to think that walking in stations is a better idea, and may incorporate your suggestions anyway.


The money is actually being used for their shooter and their Twilight game, not EVE.
This made me LOL.


This made me want to ****ing cry

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.05.27 23:59:00 - [527]
 

I can't believe this is actually happening.. I may actually get my wife into EVE now that she can sit on the couch and accessorize!

Seriously CCP--- Please stop with the "useless" add-ons and focus on the existing problems that have been pointed out for years. Devote time and resources to fixing what is broken and what was never done right in past expansions.

In other blogs and the questions answer thread it is mentioned that new T3 ships are on the way in 2014... Why not stop developing what is in my opinion "worthless" content such as walk around stations and dress-up dollies and shift your focus back to making this game the BEST internet spaceships game.....

Just my 2 cents.........


Future prediction--within 12 months you will see mods or ships available for purchase through this system

Ilah Gruhbarn
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:10:00 - [528]
 

Edited by: Ilah Gruhbarn on 28/05/2011 00:11:37
EvE moved from CCP game to CCP product this much is obvious.

Things that are going in this game is aiming for larger masses of people wrong kind of people.

In one year of time this game gonna be populated with botters and daddy credit card holders perfect combo.

After all this is about profit and that is where bott,s and daddy's credit card minions are bast at.

Neutral

CCP Atropos

Posted - 2011.05.28 00:12:00 - [529]
 

Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 27/05/2011 21:39:52
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 27/05/2011 21:36:18
I just tested it out on Duality and I really need to say this:

Unless you make it so that the pose when taking the portrait is saved, changing any clothing will be very frustrating and probably too much effort for a lot of people.

I would like an answer if possible..

I'm not involved in the project directly, but I'm pretty sure this is the case already. Try using the recustomisation options and see if your pose is the same.

I'll poke someone involved with the design and see what they say.

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:13:00 - [530]
 

Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 28/05/2011 00:16:06
Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 28/05/2011 00:14:34
The problem is that companies tend to become dependant upon the income generated by their cash stores. It is heavy income, after all entire F2P games are funded that way.

And you always want to increase your income source, so they'll add more and more itens to the store. It might not be game-affecting, but it will be something that will be brainwashed into everyone's mind so that they'll feel like buying it. And that, is the best case scenario.

CCP will feel more and more need to keep their cash store updated with new goods, therefore they will divert man-power from the T3 laboratories to this piece of dung.

Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 27/05/2011 21:39:52
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 27/05/2011 21:36:18
I just tested it out on Duality and I really need to say this:

Unless you make it so that the pose when taking the portrait is saved, changing any clothing will be very frustrating and probably too much effort for a lot of people.

I would like an answer if possible..

I'm not involved in the project directly, but I'm pretty sure this is the case already. Try using the recustomisation options and see if your pose is the same.

I'll poke someone involved with the design and see what they say.


Atropos, the pose is saved. The camera positioning, however, is not.

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:13:00 - [531]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
I think you should listen to your players, CCP.


Bull**** man, what you mean is that they should listen to you and the other alarmists. Not everyone thinks this is bad and most likely, the majority don't think this is bad.

You want them to listen to their players, then they should listen to all of us, not just the ones that shoot down 90% of everything they come up with.

I have yet to see a single post made in here against this idea that has any merit or common sense and isn't backed by fear of PLEX hikes which is speculation.

Everyone is assuming the worst and expecting worse than that. At least I'm willing to give them the chance to show if this will work or not, it isn't like it can't be changed or removed later since as far as I know, nothing done in a video game is ever permanent.

Alhambra Rainwalker
Caldari
Innera Holiday Resorts
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:15:00 - [532]
 

PLEX are extremely cheap still. How much isk can average person make in month? Many billions. So few hundred million isk for 30 days of gametime is pittance.

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:17:00 - [533]
 

Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 28/05/2011 00:18:01
Originally by: Alhambra Rainwalker
PLEX are extremely cheap still. How much isk can average person make in month? Many billions. So few hundred million isk for 30 days of gametime is pittance.


Average person can make many billions in one month?

Average person can make many billions, in one month?

xxHELGAxx
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:23:00 - [534]
 

Edited by: xxHELGAxx on 28/05/2011 00:27:14
This is bull****.

Those first paragraphs before the picture were the most shameful excuse I have ever seen CCP produce for any reason. This time it just happens to be trying to justify not giving us updates for our subscription, but making us pay extra for the 'good stuff'.

Thats all this is, releasing content you have to pay extra for. They money spent to make this new item shop and all the items that will come with it? Thats from monthly fees. You're just giving into greed CCP. This is a huge strike on your record, keep going this way and expect to lose people.

What am I paying a monthly fee for? To maintain the game? No, for new content constantly being developed for the game. And for all the years EVE has been running, that has been the case, with expansions and the while nine yards. CCP proved that it was focusing on giving players the best deal for their money, that monthly fees were enough to release large batches of content.

Now all the sudden, you need to pay extra to recieve the same services?

You are releasing new content made with $15 a month money, and charging us extra for it.

Maybe later on, when you have your disgusting item shop online you can justify the extra content costing money, but not at the onset of this thing. Its downright shameful to say that is the reason.

Shame on you CCP, I lost alot of respect for you with this change. Alot of respect.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:23:00 - [535]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 28/05/2011 00:25:01
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 27/05/2011 21:39:52
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 27/05/2011 21:36:18
I just tested it out on Duality and I really need to say this:

Unless you make it so that the pose when taking the portrait is saved, changing any clothing will be very frustrating and probably too much effort for a lot of people.

I would like an answer if possible..

I'm not involved in the project directly, but I'm pretty sure this is the case already. Try using the recustomisation options and see if your pose is the same.

I'll poke someone involved with the design and see what they say.


It's not.

leave our drivers license photos alone please. I mean , whats going to happen with incarna on a whole? Once we can walk around bars and stuff. Are we going to change our equipment if we have to redo our carefully crafted photo every single time we just want to change our shirt?

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:23:00 - [536]
 

Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 28/05/2011 00:27:30
Originally by: Cosmoes
Edited by: Cosmoes on 27/05/2011 23:47:14
Ok theres one thing that disturbs me after reading through the entire thread
Quote:

You can still buy the items with isk, so it isn't really a cash shop/pay wall. You aren't forced to pay real money you can just use isk.



Why does this disturb me? Cause thats pretty much is the perfect justification for adding any game effecting items to the Aurum shop.

Say they decide to add the Tribal Issue Tempest to the Aurum system. You would still be able to buy the item on the market so it isn't unbalanced, anyone can just buy it off someone who bought it through the the Aurum system so you aren't forced to pay any real life $ for it.

Or how about the ability to change your character to a Jove, with benefits like being able to enter Jove space and fly Jove ships all through the Aurum system. Even if that isn't trade able over the market you can still buy a GTC for isk and then use that to buy Aurum and then buy it all through in game stuff so it isn't unbalanced and isn't a real pay wall.


EDIT: I r spell awesome


Buying items/ships/performance boosts for cash will not happen. CCP knows very well where that path will lead.
Cosmetics for cash isn't a step towards anything else except cosmetics for cash. I pretty much don't care if someone is willing to invest $$$ in a pixel T-Shirt. The main issue with the presented system is that it's linked with PLEX, which is a bad idea.

Btw. in case you don't know: Jove space is dev's place to test the code, bugs and exploits on the live server in an isolated environment that players can not enter. It was also the place for holding the Alliance Tournaments.

Originally by: xxHELGAxx

Thats all this is, releasing content you have to pay extra for.

No you don't. And who needs a pixel T-Shirt anyway. You can want it, but you won't need it.

Alhambra Rainwalker
Caldari
Innera Holiday Resorts
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:24:00 - [537]
 

Sure you can, just run enough missions. 500m can be made in a daily grind no problem.

Sahmul
The Grimreapers.
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:24:00 - [538]
 

Edited by: Sahmul on 28/05/2011 00:27:22
Originally by: Dalmont Delantee

You should have left when they added micro transactions to transfer characters (its a micro transaction you don't need to pay, but people do) or when plex was introduced (which again is a micro transaction believe it or not).

This is a micro transaction for something you may never want. In fact reading the dev blog go these items are able to enter the market and be sold again. Think of giant fashion wear freighters hauling the latest fashions from Jita to 0.0 space...Its something that adds to the game not takes away like Plex


It was tempting to do so, but where CCP has stepped over the line for me here is quite clear if you read between the lines:

Quote:
The problem with customizability, however, is the amount of time and resources needed to produce unique items and variations. Bear in mind that our HQ is a renovated fish processing plant, not the Wonka factory, and we're fresh out of Oompa Loompas to build these incredible things. So we're left with the question of how to give you the customizability and uniqueness you want without simply raising the subscription rate.


If you read between the market speak here it becomes obvious that what they are really trying to say is that Incarna was not worth developing except as a vehicle for MT. Forget the rhetoric about "New Players" and "Player Retention", or "Complete Sci-Fi Experience", the bean counters have realised that there is no way that these sources can pay for the content vacuum already developed, let alone actually add some content and gameplay.

I for one would prefer they raised the sub rate if they need more resources.

Of course, there is also the slippery slope argument, which I generally find specious, but I notice they have carefully added a disclaimer:

Quote:
Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy.


The "revise our strategy" part is what I find particularly ominous.

CCP may not wish to become the "dinosaurs of the industry" as an earlier blog regarding MT would have it, but the fact is, that as the developers of a PvP Sandbox they already are. Lets face it, the vast majority of MMO's are carebear themeparks, so let us convert EVE into one of those, we don't want to be dinosaurs after all.

Actually, given some of the recent changes, that may not be so far fetched.

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:32:00 - [539]
 

Has CCP said these will be reverse-engineerable to extract blueprints? To be honest, everything in the game should have a chance of giving blueprints to replicate it. Think of how this would benefit the economy of Eve and how little industries would pop up.

I don't mind having real life money items being destructable, as long as they can be mass produced. Otherwise, nobody will even bother.

Remember the first rule of Eve? Don't fly what you can't afford to replace. I'd like to see customized ships out in 0.0, however if we don't have a mass-produce option then you will only see these types of things on PvE ships in high sec, running missions, and the only people buying clothes will never venture outside their station.

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:32:00 - [540]
 

Not to derail man, but what exactly do you mean by carebear themeparks?


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