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Silpher
Jita Trade Services
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:32:00 - [451]
 

Originally by: Sister Megarea
OK, so CCP wants vanity items that can generate RL cash; How about these ideas:
  1. Planet naming rights (6 months / 1 year)
  2. Moon naming rights (6 months / 1 year)
  3. Solar system naming rights (6 months / 1 year)
  4. Station naming rights (6 months / 1 year)
  5. News board at POS (like those at gates)
  6. Ship decals
  7. Ship-type naming rights if/as they're made by CCP
  8. Carried items (canes, swords, crutches, parasols, etc


I really do see the concern on the effects of the PLEX market - While some 'play for free', as it's been pointed out, PLEX cannot be generated or build in-game: It must be purchased for RL cash by a human, so CCP is not losing out and a ton of players benefit by playing something they might not be able to / choose to afford.

Above all, though: keep it believable. Clothing that "magically appears" each time you get podded ? When we can cast fireballs and polymorph from our ships, maybe, but until then...


THIS, CCP, is what they call a good idea without losing perspective and increasing revenue. What you're doing makes it look like your administrative personnel have been replaced by the creators of Maple Story.

Sickening. To beat a dead horse here, I have in fact canceled my subscription and will not be returning. In true Eve fashion, if you want my **** (Widow, 400m isk, Cerb, maybe some other treats) send me a mail. Maybe I'll make a big production about it.

Fare well, New-Blizz

Virginia Epitome
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:34:00 - [452]
 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/222/07vs10.jpg/sr=1

i'm not going to rage quit the game over this, but it's pretty silly.

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:38:00 - [453]
 

all sounds like bull**** to my ears tbh.

where is my 'do not load station environment' button?

Dr Larry Goldstein
Charybdis Laboratories
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:40:00 - [454]
 

Originally by: Virginia Epitome
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/222/07vs10.jpg/sr=1

i'm not going to rage quit the game over this, but it's pretty silly.


Valve makes money yes but some of that stuff was also user created and they actually made bank making those community hats.

Kyros Emerson
Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:42:00 - [455]
 

Edited by: Kyros Emerson on 27/05/2011 20:53:42
Ok... Why not skip the whole PLEX stage and allow us to directly convert set amounts of our ISK into Aurums per month? Dont remove it, because some people Will want to take that shortcut, but this way the plex market wont get blown out of proportion because you wont have to Buy Plex in order to get a poster of the Avatar you blew up last month on your captains quarters wall. Or Spandex to hug your perfectly sculpted toned and tanned calf muscles. A lot of new players will want this customizability but PLEX are #@%#ing expencive for a newbie.

Make the conversion skill based, idk Training Currency Conversion Level 1, Rank 1 under Trade, not trainable on trial accounts, allows you to get a 1% yield of Isk to Aurums conversion, Total of 5% at level 5. So when you convert 10 million isk you get 500,000 Aurums at level 5. Enough to have your corp logo sewn on your breast pocket or ironed onto your bare skin because you dont have enough Aurums to buy a uniform perhaps.

Then add a skill that bumps up the total amount of isk you can convert per month. Bulk Currency Conversion level 1, Rank 2, under Currency Conversion. Level 1 allows 50 million isk per month to be converted into Aurums, up to a total of 250million isk per month at level 5 (25 million Aurums). Enough to add that Discoball and mood lighting, A picture of your favorite goat and Cowboy boots with chrome spurs, and a Pirate flag yo ho ho and a bottle o' rum.

ALSO: PLEX = [PILOT LICENSE EXTENSION], NOT PLEXAITAC, [PILOT LICENSE EXTENSION AND ISK TO AURUM CONVERTER]
Make them purchasable out of game but as a seperate item with a seperate purpose. Remember how you once threw POS into the sovereignty mechanic even though that was not what they were designed for, and it became an eyesore upon the face of the galaxy for years to come?

Edit: You may also find that if the PLEX market becomes inflated, then you may be in danger of loosing those pilots who rely on purchasing PLEX with isk for their game time, due to real world inflation.

Edit: OR perhaps you want to get paid for your labor to create these 'unique' items. Allow us to buy standard items with our isk, such as corp logo iron-ons, and use the new currency purely for the unique items. Do Not Use PLEX for this. Just create the ability to directly purchase the Aurums with real money in varying quantities. For inspiration, look to the way World Of Tanks runs its Premium account mechanic. That is hugely successful. You pay cold hard cash for a second ingame currency called GOLD, and you can choose what amounts you want to buy. That gold is then used to purchase special ingame items that you cannot buy with the regular SILVER currency.

Cosmoes
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:43:00 - [456]
 

said it before and I'll say it again. item shop is bad

Dalton Vanadis
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:46:00 - [457]
 

Originally by: Roasted Pepper
Not sure why anyone would trust an Icelandic economist, they don't really have a good track record.


Ouch...

X201207
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:48:00 - [458]
 

It's what happens when there's a global financial meltdown and your currency is only circulated amongst 300K people. Iceland is the smallest country to have its own currency.

Avensys
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:49:00 - [459]
 

Edited by: Avensys on 27/05/2011 20:59:23
Originally by: Silpher
Fare well, New-Blizz

That's a very interesting comment - can you explain what you mean by it?

.... because as far as I am aware Blizzard has - despite huge sales of the Celestial Steed (their first MT item) - resisted the temptation to aggressively expand their store for in-game items (at 10-20€/item it's a little hard to speak of microtransactions^^).

One year after the opening of the store (which drew very similar criticism from WoW players as CCP's announcement currently does from EVE players) I just counted seven different in-game pets/mounts on sale.

So imo Blizzard would be an example for a very limited & conservative MT strategy...


Originally by: X201207
It's what happens when there's a global financial meltdown and your currency is only circulated amongst 300K people. Iceland is the smallest country to have its own currency.

I am sure it's a ploy by the Icelandic government - they forced CCP to implement MTs so its revenue (paid by customers in $ and €) would increase and they could restock their currency reserves.

Your cold, hard $$ (lol) go directly into the hands of Icelandic (central-) banksters and CCP is left with a worthless ISK balance on their accounts:
Quote:
The foreign exchange rules also oblige Icelandic residents to deposit any new foreign currency they receive with an Icelandic bank.

Linkage

Milli Sanchez
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:52:00 - [460]
 

Just plain dumb... Rolling Eyes

NovaCat13
Gallente
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:55:00 - [461]
 

As long as it stays pay for vanity, I'll let it slide... moment it becomes stat padding, we have issues.

Kyros Emerson
Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:03:00 - [462]
 

Originally by: Kyros Emerson

ALSO: PLEX = [PILOT LICENSE EXTENSION], NOT PLEXAITAC, [PILOT LICENSE EXTENSION AND ISK TO AURUM CONVERTER]
Make them purchasable out of game but as a seperate item with a seperate purpose. Remember how you once threw POS into the sovereignty mechanic even though that was not what they were designed for, and it became an eyesore upon the face of the galaxy for years to come?

Edit: You may also find that if the PLEX market becomes inflated, then you may be in danger of loosing those pilots who rely on purchasing PLEX with isk for their game time, due to real world inflation.

Edit: OR perhaps you want to get paid for your labor to create these 'unique' items. Allow us to buy standard items with our isk, such as corp logo iron-ons, and use the new currency purely for the unique items. Do Not Use PLEX for this. Just create the ability to directly purchase the Aurums with real money in varying quantities. For inspiration, look to the way World Of Tanks runs its Premium account mechanic. That is hugely successful. You pay cold hard cash for a second ingame currency called GOLD, and you can choose what amounts you want to buy. That gold is then used to purchase special ingame items that you cannot buy with the regular SILVER currency.


What I mean by this is thus:

You buy an Aurum card as you would a plex, and it is inserted into your hanger in game. The Aurum card can be sold on the market for ISK or converted into Aurum currency for yourself. Aurum cards would come in differing quantities, depending on how much you wanted to spend in real cash

Example:
250,000 Aurum Credit Card
500,000 Aurum Credit Card
1,000,000 Aurum Credit Card
5,000,000 Aurum Credit Card
10,000,000 Aurum Credit Card

I dont know how much Aurums we will be getting from a plex yet so i cant scale this in any way shape or form, but you get the general idea.

Or CCP can set one value and you pay cash for multiple cards. IE if you want 1 million Aurums you will have to buy 4x 250,000 Aurum Credit Cards.

Basically in conclusion I am screaming "Dont use PLEX for this!!!!"

Resivan
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:04:00 - [463]
 

I see a lot of posters naively assuming that GTC purchases are inelastic and that vanity item buyers will be competing against those buying PLEX to pay subscription fees for a limited pool of PLEX. This time next year, I would be surprised if the stats do not show that of, all the PLEX converted to Aurum, over 90% are converted by the PLEX creator (the player who broke the GTC in two) within 24 hours of PLEX creation. Those PLEX will never see the market.

People who would never consider using PLEX sales to convert RL money to ISK won't think twice about paying RL money for vanity items, even if they have to jump through some hoops to do it.

Pugzilla Black
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:04:00 - [464]
 

This reminds me of how Japanese yakuza (mafia) got around gambling laws. You would use real money to buy the equivalent of chips at a gambling house. After you were done gambling you would trade the chips in for stuffed animals at the same gambling house. Just down the street from the gambling house is a shop that bought the stuffed animals for real money. Oddly enough this stuffed animal buying shop was owned by the same people who owned the gambling house. Sound familiar in any way?

All CCP needs is a cash out mechanism (like what Second Life has) and we are there. Naturally, there will be a tax/ fee for cashing out and for those of you in Europe, hello VAT.

I want to play a space game, not FOREX with a space themed GUI or some kind of web based skill game for money.

Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente
Vauryndar Dalharil
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:07:00 - [465]
 

Do not want Crying or Very sad


Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:17:00 - [466]
 

Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 27/05/2011 21:24:09

Initial reaction: O NOES, EVE went the way of the Micro Transaction! Evil or Very Mad

Revised reaction after reading entire article: thats actually quite clever tying it into PLEX and making these items a market commodity. Cool

Just be careful not to go too far though, simple things that have no impact on the game are one thing. Taking it to the extreme like Valve ("5 dollar red paintjob for your 2 dollar tophat" Evil or Very Mad) or having them impact gameplay (buying rare shuttles, or stats) is BAD!


Arzi Taila
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:17:00 - [467]
 

Edited by: Arzi Taila on 27/05/2011 21:19:25
The PLEX I can understand, and justify, as a necessary evil. Everyone's got to pay to play and keep the game running, after all.

This micro transaction store for vanity items - and potentially more in the future - isn't anything like that. Aurums seem to compromise the very foundation of the game by directly affecting the price of PLEX and, in a sense, the cost of subscribing for many players in EVE.

I'm going to have to chime in, like many others have said; this is the first genuinely concerning and disappointing thing I've seen CCP do since I started playing their game.

X201207
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:17:00 - [468]
 

All of this talk of currency made me want to try a Forex trial account and I made $100 in the USD/JPN exchange in an hour with 10,000.

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:17:00 - [469]
 

I think the idea is perfectly thought out and implemented.

I especially like the idea of choosing between nano and global paint jobs.

Those who are throwing their usual tantrums obviously are hard of learning.

•As these are vanity items, no player has to participate, so they aren't "falling behind" ****.

•CCP isn't doing this instead of fixing the game, different teams, different jobs, grow a brain.

•To those that are rage quitting because they're complete idiots, good, GTFO and stay gone.

CCP, hear none of this BS from these trolls, they whine over anything, ANYTHING you do and you all know it. It's your game, do with it what you will and those that don't like it can take a flying leap at a rolling donut, they will not be missed, not even by their mothers.

There is nothing and will never be anything wrong with MT as long as they don't allow people to purchase more power. They give those interested an option and help to augment the revenue stream for EVE which is fine since CCP was kind enough to provide you asshats a system that allows you to essentially play the game for free, something other games like WOW don't.

You don't like it, don't use the MT system, but for **** sakes, don't stand in the way of those who do want to use it, otherwise you're being nothing more than a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.

MT don't make EVE WOW, they won't send EVE down the path to destruction or any other damned stupid thing that tends to pop out the mouths of the over dramatic whine patrol that tends to always show up here with their end of the world signs. Get a life, if you are having palpitations over CCP implementing a MT store to raise funds, please seek help from a qualified medical professional because you've lost all sense of reality.

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:19:00 - [470]
 

Originally by: Dr Larry Goldstein
Originally by: Virginia Epitome
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/222/07vs10.jpg/sr=1

i'm not going to rage quit the game over this, but it's pretty silly.


Valve makes money yes but some of that stuff was also user created and they actually made bank making those community hats.


The thing is, in light of how stretched CCP will remain with multiple products (with heavy development and maintenance requirements) plus in light of the EVE design principle of "user driven events & trends" ... I don't know. Perhaps it would make a lot more meaningful long term sense to extend that principle towards "user created content". Not only would that add an enormous commercial potential, it would also remain fully connected to what EVE is like to folks, and it would remain fully in touch with original principles.

I know, you'd have to come up with design requirements & guidelines. But that does strike me as less of a resource investment than constantly having to cater to fluctuating trends & demands and facing the challenge of always chasing AFTER that (instead of anticipating it - not a good track record there unfortunately). Not to mention the marketing & sales value of all those folks telling the tales everywhere online and where they go to others. And having tangible (even if virtual) things to show for (as opposed to things which only have a direct meaning with the recipient party embedded in the context).

Grash Freedom
Gallente
I Maza
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:26:00 - [471]
 

Edited by: Grash Freedom on 27/05/2011 21:29:51
Edited by: Grash Freedom on 27/05/2011 21:26:28
Edited by: Grash Freedom on 27/05/2011 21:26:03
Originally by: LordElfa
I think the idea is perfectly thought out and implemented.


•As these are vanity items, no player has to participate, so they aren't "falling behind" ****.





You are missing a link here, that players that doesn't want to participate to the vanity system get affected by it, those who are buying plexs just to extend their account status WILL pay more for the plex, cause CCP married the AURUM with the plex, and price is infalted not due to accounts reasons but vanity ones


My suggestion is this, since CCP will procced with the AURUM system
DO NOT use plex to convert to AURUM,
BREAK A GTC to buy AURUM,
Allow Aurums to be sold on MARKET

PROBLEM SOLVED

Sister Megarea
Sisters of Agony
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:29:00 - [472]
 

Originally by: LordElfa

[snip]
Those who are throwing their usual tantrums obviously are hard of learning.

•As these are vanity items, no player has to participate, so they aren't "falling behind" ****.

CCP, hear none of this BS from these trolls, they whine over anything, ANYTHING you do and you all know it.

[snip]

There is nothing and will never be anything wrong with MT as long as they don't allow people to purchase more power. They give those interested an option and help to augment the revenue stream for EVE which is fine since CCP was kind enough to provide you asshats a system that allows you to essentially play the game for free, something other games like WOW don't.

You don't like it, don't use the MT system, but for **** sakes, don't stand in the way of those who do want to use it, otherwise you're being nothing more than a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.
[snip]


If this were purely a micro-transaction for vanity items, there wouldn't be a whimper in these boards: I.e. Wanna buy a monocle for your character ? That'll be $1.00 USD, please enter CC number now. It would have negligible effect on the economy, other than what the market chose to buy and sell them for.

However: The mechanism they're using for the vanity items is PLEX - A systems critical one for a great many players - I.e. without it, they cannot play the game (for various reasons, though I would suspect affordability being the top one) By making the only way to purchase vanity items via the only way to 'pay to play' - It's going to make that method of payment a lot more expensive for players who use PLEX to pay; More time grinding to gain the ISK to pay for the game than their preferred playstyle.

In other words: When PLEX was primarily used as a method for monthly subscription, it had a certain value to a certain market. When PLEX is used for BOTH monthly subscription, as well as vanity items, each market may well have a different value for the same thing, which means one is likely to get screwed (And I'm betting it's not going to the the vanity market that gets the screwing)

Arzi Taila
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:30:00 - [473]
 

Originally by: LordElfa
You don't like it, don't use the MT system, but for **** sakes, don't stand in the way of those who do want to use it, otherwise you're being nothing more than a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.


Is it hard work to actually be this ignorant, or does it come naturally to you?

Aurum, PLEX, and ISK are interconnected. Everyone's affected under this proposed system, even those not involved.
Not to mention how it cheapens the game in general, but that's a subjective thing anyway...

Luminak Narz
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:31:00 - [474]
 

To start, I don't think a vanity cash shop is a game breaking idea. I'll hold my opinions of it in Eve until it launches. If it is indeed cool, I may even purchase some vanity items. The only issue I have is that its been sold as a totally optional feature (which in a literal sense it is), but if you get podded and don't buy a new set of digs, you could look like a major tool. So my question is, if I don't buy replacement clothes, am I really gonna be walking around in a orange jumpsuit, like a common prisoner? If that's the case, I'd say there would be a strong impetus to participate in an "optional" feature.

The noob clothing set can't look exceeding stupid just to keep the vanity shop humming.

Sahmul
The Grimreapers.
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:32:00 - [475]
 

Disappointing.

2 accounts cancelled.

Thanks EVE for the good times, and farewell.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:33:00 - [476]
 

To help immersion, how about replacing the clothing shop with a "clothing manufacturer". What we are doing when we get new clothes is not buying pre-made items, we are having them manufactured for us on the spot. All captain's quarters have a small manufacturing unit. All you need to is feed it aurum, pick what you want, and out pops the item. You could even add to the lore that the reason station managers give free quarters to all pod pilots is in hopes they will use their in-room manufacturer so the station manager can collect these fees.

When we get podded the new clothes do not appear by magic, they are manufactured for us while we are waking up in the new clone.

Another thought: You could make the fee for vanity items be either isk or aurum. Then by setting the isk to aurum ratio properly, you can put a ceiling on the price of the PLEX.

If you want magic, consider how a 50 cubic meter item can cover a carrier with 1.6 meters of steel armor.

Sri Bolyn
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:34:00 - [477]
 

Dear CCP,

I would like to say that as long as you don't interfere with my enjoyment of the game with this addition I and, I am sure, many others will be totally supportive.

I for one want to see you increase your revenues. I want you to see more "0"'s in your pay checks. I want you to come to work every day and be happy and successful.

It is my hope that the more you grow your company and the more successful you become, you will add bigger and better content to what is already a stellar game.

Best of luck with this,

Sri

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:34:00 - [478]
 

Edited by: LordElfa on 27/05/2011 21:36:52
Edited by: LordElfa on 27/05/2011 21:35:07
Originally by: Arzi Taila
Originally by: LordElfa
You don't like it, don't use the MT system, but for **** sakes, don't stand in the way of those who do want to use it, otherwise you're being nothing more than a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.


Is it hard work to actually be this ignorant, or does it come naturally to you?

Aurum, PLEX, and ISK are interconnected. Everyone's affected under this proposed system, even those not involved.
Not to mention how it cheapens the game in general, but that's a subjective thing anyway...


First, Miss overdramtic, it only cheapens the game in your own little mind. Second, they've already said they'll be watching the PLEX market closely. What do you want, a guarantee? There are no guarantees, deal with it, at least you have the option to buy PLEX in game to pay your subscription, would you prefer they go back to making it a requirement to have to pay with cash?

Ignorance obviously comes naturally to you so I wouldn't concern myself with others till you get your own under control, along with your paranoia. Personally, I hope it shakes up the **** out of things, anything would be a welcome change from the static crap that EVE has become due to the kiddies being afraid of change.

Originally by: Sahmul
Disappointing.

2 accounts cancelled.

Thanks EVE for the good times, and farewell.


Peace out, see my previous post.

Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:36:00 - [479]
 

Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 27/05/2011 21:39:52
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 27/05/2011 21:36:18
I just tested it out on Duality and I really need to say this:

Unless you make it so that the pose when taking the portrait is saved, changing any clothing will be very frustrating and probably too much effort for a lot of people.

I would like an answer if possible..

Ecoskii
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:36:00 - [480]
 

Love how you consult the CSM for trash like this but ignore them for anything important.... ace job


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