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Davelantor
Caldari
The Resistance Movement
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:42:00 - [421]
 

Edited by: Davelantor on 27/05/2011 19:47:21
Hmm ... Strip Poker ... MAKE THIS HAPPEN !!

+ Notice the only input to that cycle is PLEX ;)
The problem for me is now ... more demand for PLEX = Higher PLEX prices.

Also dont make the clothe prices in silly levels, it would be rather silly to buy a monocle for the price of a battleship
BUT ... stripper pole ... hmm ... i would need more details ...

Dalton Vanadis
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:43:00 - [422]
 

While I can see the logic to separating out these new vanity items in initial purchase from the rest of the game to prevent a massive market fluctuation and I'm willing to give you guys the benefit of the doubt on this one, I do have a few concerns.

Just from the perspective of how I treat this game, I would hope that the current focus on vanity items will die down to a more appropriate level of what it represents from the immersion aspect of this game, sure it's an added aspect to the game that adds customizability and therefore a bit of realism. But, I think whether or not my character has a monocle should be a decision that is infinitesimally smaller in importance than whether or not my ship can blow the crap out of my opponents.

Also, I hope that the fears of many in this thread are baseless when it comes to the effects on the existing market. I should hope that your goal is to keep this game playable by those that buy PLEX with ISK, some of whom are already having an increasingly difficult time as it is. While I am not one of those players, I fly with a few, and I'd be very sad to see them go, it'd be a loss to the EVE universe really to lose such dedicated players as well. I just hope that you remember that when you're monitoring the impact of Aurum on the PLEX market and what not.

Also, I really hope you go with Trebor's idea on the non-destructible clothing options, the naming Jita 4-4 part is kind of ******ed imo though. It seems that being dressed in a pod doesn't fit your idea of a pod and plus, I really don't want to add in a pimp hat to the list of things I rebuy if I get dead.

Otherwise, as long as you keep the concerns of myself and others at least in mind, I look forward to seeing what wonders you bring to the universe, keep up the good work. Though can we get a dev blog on my shiny turret eye candy (and maybe a timeline on adding missiles to the eye candy list).

Junko Sideswipe
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:46:00 - [423]
 

Dear CCP art team,

I made some more concept art for you.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Love,
Junko~ <3

fkingfurious
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:47:00 - [424]
 

.........

I'm actually lost for words.

Actually no I'm not, its just that all of the words I want to say would get me banned.

Nearly 7 ****ing years I've been playing this game and honest to god this is the first time I've ever had serious doubts about CCP and the future of my subscription.

WTF is this???

****ing microtransactions for vanity ****e. A second currency you can only have if you pay RL cash for it.

So when can we expect SP for Aurum? Limited edition ships or modules for ****ing Aurum?

****ing disgusted.

Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:49:00 - [425]
 

Originally by: fkingfurious
.........

I'm actually lost for words.

Actually no I'm not, its just that all of the words I want to say would get me banned.

Nearly 7 ****ing years I've been playing this game and honest to god this is the first time I've ever had serious doubts about CCP and the future of my subscription.

WTF is this???

****ing microtransactions for vanity ****e. A second currency you can only have if you pay RL cash for it.

So when can we expect SP for Aurum? Limited edition ships or modules for ****ing Aurum?

****ing disgusted.


Agreed. Slippery slopes are just that.

I am really looking forward to ToR now heh!

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:50:00 - [426]
 

Agree, I also worry for the next thing. Soon microtransactions might be mandatory to get the usual stuff.

Hikari Kasenumi
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:51:00 - [427]
 

I expect people have already said some of this, but this thread is a bit tl;dr.

I don't see what all the fuss is about micro-transactions and the "VANITY ITEMS ONLY OR I RAGE-QUIT" comments. I guess these people have entirely missed that the RL money to ISK route already exists via PLEX?

The Aurum system is far less of a "micro-transaction" than PLEX, since it sounds like Aurum is not actually convertible to ISK via the market / contracts (if I've not missed something?) and minimises RMT effects since at least someone has to buy PLEX. So I do wonder if this new currency isn't actually a mis-guided attempt by CCP to listen to users and make a decent profit from vanity items without scaring away their existing customers with direct micro-transactions.

At the same time it's a little strange wanting the vanity items to all be standard in-game items, with the usual mechanics of market and dropping, and the sudden discovery of that previously overlooked Jovian pod wardrobe.

In the end it's clear that this isn't a proper solution. It uses existing game mechanics for podding etc, and avoids the need for a new shop (RL money to Aurum) by basing an "entirely new currency" (a.k.a. one new in-game item a new wallet division and a couple of right-click menu entries) on "Pilot's License Extensions" (any plans to rename this to something more accurate? I suggest "Multi-Purpose CCP Fundraising McGuffin").

It's CCP's attempt to do the quickest and easiest (and hence cheapest) thing possible. Personally, I sure as hell hope it works. I'm not going to be spending RL moneys or ISK on vanity items for my toon, but I hope someone does so that CCP get the funds to do this properly.

e.g.
Separate Aurum properly from PLEX with an interface to buy from RL cash (and maybe abolish PLEX / be honest about things and implement direct ISK for moneys).
Decent mechanics for vanity items (separate them from normal items so that I can get my new ship painted the same when the old one gets blown up).

Of course, once it's in, it wouldn't surprise me if it stays in and broken for quite some time (though I'm hopeful, what with learning skill's going, agent revamping, PI revision and such)

tl;dr: All this is understandable, but hardly ideal. Still, I'm curious to see where it goes.

One other thing I wonder about:

CCP Hammer loled at the suggestion that EVE moneys is spent on DUST514 and whatever the Twilight thing is. I take it this is not the case? Any further info on this / linkage to anywhere with any? (Because without any further info I know I was thinking it was bloody cheek to hint in the blog that CCP was lacking in funding to develop the game that actually makes them money, yet spending untold sums on other things).


Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:52:00 - [428]
 

Will I be able to buy a "give the finger" emote and a space bong?


Zanes Shoubje
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:52:00 - [429]
 

Sounds good to me CCP. Especially the can be sold for isk thing.

And Ka-Ching.Cool

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:54:00 - [430]
 

I don't often post in these threads. I don't see the point, most of the time.

Today, I make an exception.

The Aurums, are okay.

The overall idea, is decent.

Destroyable clothing? Seriously? You are ensuring that nobody that ever undocks uses this, and creating an entirely new class of disco bs griefer that now gets to blow up real money.

You also create a huge wall to PVP particularly if these clothes show on your avatar.

I am posting to say that I am disgusted by this idea.

And I don't even undock.

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:58:00 - [431]
 

Edited by: Gogela on 27/05/2011 20:02:31

Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Will I be able to buy a "give the finger" emote and a space bong?


There is already a bong in the game (Linked here). I have several. They will be available in my seedy pleasure hub for a nominal fee.

ugh

Originally by: Tutskii
Destroyable clothing? Seriously? You are ensuring that nobody that ever undocks uses this, and creating an entirely new class of disco bs griefer that now gets to blow up real money.

New piracy options! Yay!!!

YARRRR!!

Originally by: Davelantor
Hmm ... Strip Poker ... MAKE THIS HAPPEN !!

Second. Very Happy

Schmooples F'Skilex
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:02:00 - [432]
 

Question: Will the clothes an avatar was wearing be added to killmails when their pod is destroyed?

Pugzilla Black
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:02:00 - [433]
 

The real issue here is how the EVE economy is getting de-stabilized and being abruptly changed into something along the lines of Second Life.

Do we really want a Second Life style economy in EVE where we are forced into using real money to buy pixel things? PLEX buying and selling is optional, but not for long.

Part of what makes EVE such a great game is that you don't need real money to advance. Sure it helps, but it's not required. I would prefer not having to buy a couple PLEX whenever I want a ship upgrade.

Grash Freedom
Gallente
I Maza
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:04:00 - [434]
 

Edited by: Grash Freedom on 27/05/2011 20:08:57


somebody got too greedy with RL money :S

RL money for plex, plex for Aurum, aurum for clothes, clothes for isk, plex for isk

and you still fail to understand the problem? you have added an extra load to the plex market, and that load will be huge

people buy with RL money Plex to get isks
now people will buy plex, either with RL money or isks, to get clothes, and be sure that none is so stupid to pay RL money to dress a stupid avatar, they will use isks instead

lets remember the name of those plex things
"30 day pilot's License Extension"

you are using a 30 day extension card for
extend the gametime of account(daaaaa)
character transfers (not so daaaaa)
plex for good (thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard, next time lets giveaway trit or vagabonds to the cause)
and now plex for Aurum????

I wondered why the plex price went to 400 mils already, now i know, because you fail to understand basic macroeconomics and the effect added demand has on prices. Really do you pay someone to think this ****??? and his response was that the plex price will not get affected?

do you want to transform this great game to second life or entropia universe fail, go ahead, but do it as they do it, with a separate currency, let people buy aurums with RL money, do not mate it with plexs, at least make one huge mistake not two huge ones on the same time

pfff

PS. i seriously DO NOT like the road EVE is going.



TedStriker
The Scope
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:05:00 - [435]
 

Edited by: TedStriker on 27/05/2011 20:11:14
Ok, let me make a strong point about this, because most of us who are in the industry can clearly see where this is going...

At first, this all sounds like a good idea right? Just vanity items. Thats alright, just some money for you. (btw, will we have to buy corplogos for the ship with aurium too? talking about vanity items...)

But what happens then? You get a stream of new revenue that you will want to hold at least steady, if not increase it right? Thats just basic business 101. But as vanity items, once bought, are permanent in game, and the playerbase buying the stuff gets saturated, you will have to add new items just to keep the new income-stream steady right?

Now, there are only so many items you can implement, before you will hit a wall. People will stop buying once they have the 2nd or 3rd generation of an item that does...nothing in the end.

So, will you just stop and let the revenue decrease again? OF COURSE NOT. You will be forced to add new stuff, this time stepping over the line and adding...small boni. You know, 0,5% of something, anything. And thats where it starts...and ends.

Because once you start adding boni to stuff that defines competitiveness, who wants to compete has to follow. And as ppl follow, you will have to add tier2 and tier3 items with more boni just to keep the incentive to buy new items going and keep your revenue stream, that you already rely on in your budget plans, alive.

No, this is not rocket sience, nor clairvoyant, its just logic.

Now tell me you wont...tell me you won't want that income at some point, because thats just naive.

P.S. oh and good luck with keeping plex stable, it will skyrocket, it already does. Speculation will go crazy.

EDIT: my solution? i will take a sub-increase ANY TIME, its more reliable for you and for me. And you won't be forced into anything, the playingfield will be balanced. Thats the power of subscription based content, and the weakness of MT-systems.

Roan Pico
Amarr
I- T I E -I
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:06:00 - [436]
 

"IŽm done with EVE ! IŽll quit and give away all my money. All i want is that shiny jacket... [want to buy]* "

* you will pay: 785.73 million ISK
you will get: shiny new jacket

----

Meh, youŽre nuts CCP.

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:09:00 - [437]
 

Originally by: Junko Sideswipe
Dear CCP art team,

I made some more concept art for you.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Love,
Junko~ <3


Must be Gallente...

Jk. Looks nice.

Sister Megarea
Sisters of Agony
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:09:00 - [438]
 

OK, so CCP wants vanity items that can generate RL cash; How about these ideas:
  1. Planet naming rights (6 months / 1 year)
  2. Moon naming rights (6 months / 1 year)
  3. Solar system naming rights (6 months / 1 year)
  4. Station naming rights (6 months / 1 year)
  5. News board at POS (like those at gates)
  6. Ship decals
  7. Ship-type naming rights if/as they're made by CCP
  8. Carried items (canes, swords, crutches, parasols, etc


I really do see the concern on the effects of the PLEX market - While some 'play for free', as it's been pointed out, PLEX cannot be generated or build in-game: It must be purchased for RL cash by a human, so CCP is not losing out and a ton of players benefit by playing something they might not be able to / choose to afford.

Above all, though: keep it believable. Clothing that "magically appears" each time you get podded ? When we can cast fireballs and polymorph from our ships, maybe, but until then...

Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:10:00 - [439]
 

Originally by: Morar Santee
So let me get this straight:

Months ago, a vast majority (going on 80%) of forum users voiced their dislike for microtransactions.

What you took away from this is that microtransactions are a brilliant idea. You ignored every suggestion to make vanity items an ISK sink by giving players the design tools to create their own clothes and custom paintjobs for an ISK charge. So instead of an implementation that helps in-game economy and does not break immersion, we get this crap, complete with a second currency to fuel it. A currency that is directly bought with Real Life money.

And in the meantime, you break working game features with every patch. So much so that people just give up coming to the forums to ask what the f u c k is wrong with you people.
Personally, I've been waiting for five patches to have the "stack all" option fixed. Instead you decide to break player / NPC corp standings (yes, break - because you can not even see factions' relations towards each other anymore), broadcasts, build quotes and only Jesus knows what else..

But hey! Microtransactions are coming along fine!! Good ****ing job fellas.

You know, if the 80% of you quit, maybe that would get rid of lag.

Then you wouldn't have to be so scared of microtransactions, deal with CCP breaking inconsequential stuff and you'd save time and money wasted and you wouldn't have to live life being so darn bitter.

Life is too short to be so bitter.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:11:00 - [440]
 

This sucks


Pugzilla Black
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:16:00 - [441]
 

Originally by: Junko Sideswipe
Dear CCP art team,

I made some more concept art for you.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Love,
Junko~ <3


Throw in pink and blue pose balls... er... mature ambulation vanity enhancers and you are ready for prime time. * insert lame emote here *

Danghor
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:16:00 - [442]
 

Well this is bull****, because we pay all year around for this game and you still get paid for the extras you do. Unlike a single player game where selling DLC adds more cash and obviously more time to support the game.

Since CCP's imagination is limited and will never really satisfy everyone, why not give the players the tool to create customizations and sell them in Eve for isk. ****ty products won't sell, cool ones should make some players rich.

akitespero
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:18:00 - [443]
 

So, we get a completely optional set of toys that hard core pvp null sec pilots don't need to buy, ever. ...and some of them get so stressed they will leave the game? That's silly.

This alter (rich high sec trader and industrialist) will likely buy some stuff for herself IF the price is right. It is a rich toon and likes to show off.

My other alter (the nullsec crazy pilot that gets podded every other week) will totally ignore this totally optional market. No fuss, no crying. It is a tough crazy pilot that lives for the fight and has no time for fine clothes. When docked he spends the time fitting his next ship and upgrading his clone, no time to dress up and look in the mirror. For him it would be as if these items won't exist.

About ISK for GTC, just play the market. Buy GTCs when they are cheap, sell when they are high. Buy vanity stuff and sell it around to rich carebears with too much isk in their hands. Today I made a nice profit buying and selling GTCs following the fluctuation of the market. It cannot get more real (read immersive) than that for us traders. But if you cannot or won't bother playing the market, don't cry when prices fluctuate, go play some other game with fixed pricing and a market driven by brainless npc's. This is Eve and PVP is more than just pewpew.

Nice work CCP. I'm looking forward to the new possibilities offered by this newer addition to the game.




X201207
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:18:00 - [444]
 

Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
I am really looking forward to ToR now heh!


Heh, you're concerned about commercial duplicity so you put your faith in a Lucas Arts IP.

Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:18:00 - [445]
 

Edited by: Lev Aeris on 27/05/2011 20:19:11
Straw that broke the camel's back. I expect plex and aurum to remain as balanced as super carriers.

This is the same economic expert that failed to realize eve was producing free moon goo for how long?

Autumn Sachs
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:20:00 - [446]
 

This is not a good idea. Reciting the reasons is pointless. But one day EVE will be no more and the developers are highly motivated to get as much out of it as they can. C'est la vie.

X201207
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:20:00 - [447]
 

Edited by: X201207 on 27/05/2011 20:21:12
^^^^
But "EVE is forever".

Originally by: Lev Aeris
Edited by: Lev Aeris on 27/05/2011 20:19:11
Straw that broke the camel's back. I expect plex and aurum to remain as balanced as super carriers.

This is the same economic expert that failed to realize eve was producing free moon goo for how long?


The economic expert doesn't account for ratting bounties so what grounds are we to assume he's an expert?

Roasted Pepper
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:25:00 - [448]
 

Not sure why anyone would trust an Icelandic economist, they don't really have a good track record.

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:26:00 - [449]
 

Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 27/05/2011 20:27:59
Nice devblog.

Although, I would rather have AUR separated from PLEX but connected to ISK... but if you guys at CCP think you can "balance" the market and counter speculations, it's OK. (Are you sure you are capable of that, btw?... You know, losing players that pay with PLEX only to have some other players buy some fancy clothes is not such a good thing. That's if you are not 100% certain that you can balance the PLEX prices ofc.)

edit:
+1 for German and Russian version of the devblog Wink

Grash Freedom
Gallente
I Maza
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:30:00 - [450]
 

Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 27/05/2011 20:27:59
Nice devblog.

Although, I would rather have AUR separated from PLEX but connected to ISK... but if you guys at CCP think you can "balance" the market and counter speculations, it's OK. (Are you sure you are capable of that, btw?... You know, losing players that pay with PLEX only to have some other players buy some fancy clothes is not such a good thing. That's if you are not 100% certain that you can balance the PLEX prices ofc.)

edit:
+1 for German and Russian version of the devblog Wink


plex price already to 420 mils,

either CCP here is wrong, or sellers and resellers in eve market, my money goes to CCP being WRONG


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