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Gumpy Nighthawk
Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:50:00 - [361]
 

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG

Having another currency for Incarna (Aurum (AUR)) helps us generate a lot more income from the already paying consumer base. More currencies are also simply just more fun and the fact that vanity items can be sold on the secondary market by players themselves opens up a lot of trading opportunities. Fun times ahead. Smile


I just had to fix that statement for you Dr.EyjoG. Also more currencies makes it more fun?? Really??? Also Vanity items being sold on the secondary market could also have happened if people would just buy them with ISK and sell them in Jita for a markup, just like every other commodity is traded in eve.

Its just sad that as an already paying customer I would have to pay even more to get actually rather useless items. This would make perfect sence if this game would have been free to play, but it is not.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:53:00 - [362]
 

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: Master Tron
So let me make myself clear.
2 years ago PLEX price was around 200mil isk, now the index of the plex has gone up by 50% so now we are looking price in market 400mil isk.
Other way to get plex is with RL money, we convert GTC to PLEX. This will be as it is and it will not have any change. If now we take AUR in what is made from PLEX. PLEX price will go up from 400mil to 600mil isk and in next 2 years the price will go even more up... about half of the users in this game use PLEX to play this game. Meaning isk you make and buy PLEX keeps your users in this game (key: "you don't need to pay any RL money to play this game"). If you take AUR in then AUR will push PLEX price up and push GTC (60days gamecards price to isk) up with 50%.
So in the end people don't buy PLEX, but the better option will be under GTC (it gives CCP more RL money). GTC price will go now up to 1,2bil and people who can not afford to make 1,2bil in 60days (we are not robots) will just quit this game (or you have more issues with bots). Only ones who will stay in this game are the ones with huge wallet on Credit Cards.

Good job CCP, you will lose 50% of players who wanted to play this game. Now there is only ones left who buy this game with RL money. If they decide that eve is bad they don't buy the GTC anymore and now eve online will be at point where ballance is what the customers do, if they keep leaving, (remember the ones who play this game basicly free has friend who buy GTC - buddy program) then this game will go upside down.

BUT before you call me an idiot, if you manage to control the PLEX / ISK value as it is, then this game is doing fine, but you need to not just keep eye on it, but to work very hard times on it! There is always someone who want to make more ISK.


Just to clarify - The lowest monthly average price for ISK was in February of 2010 with a value of roughly 265,000,000 ISK (265 million ISK). We are well aware of the potential, and I stress potential, impact on the market and are thus monitoring the situation closely. We do expect a lot of fluctuations while the market stabilizes based on information in this new devblog. But as you have seen today the market can adjust by itself very rapidly. Sell offers are currently at 404.7 million in Jita, down from a 450 million high earlier today. A typical market reaction when there are uncertainties with new information provided.


You add extra demand by providing more uses for plex, without any extra supply. So unless you also reduce the price of plex how can it not have an impact?

There's some worrying details to the cycle in the blog that was left out.

Plex purchase -> Cycle shown in blog -> Destruction of items.

I find it worrying because these extra details provide revenue to CCP in ways that are obscure to many. When real life money transactions are involved I think its fair to have transparency. Real life money also gets linked closer to game assets than ever before.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:54:00 - [363]
 

Do not approve of microtransactions. Its like tf2 all over agian.

Hijinx N Hoodwinks
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:54:00 - [364]
 

Interesting... Are we still only subscribers to a service that you're providing or does our ownership of virtual property exchanged for real money change all that?

Azurun Li
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:58:00 - [365]
 

Microtransactions for vanity items? Cool.

Make vanity items (and associated currency) tradable in-game, thus allowing one player to buy vanity items for another player? Double-cool.

I only hope that, since the items are destroyable & lootabe, they come cheap. If my boots cost more than my ship, I probably won't bother spending any ISK or $$ on them.

Leah Solo
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:58:00 - [366]
 

Originally by: Alice Katsuko
Since clothing is now destructible, like many posters I will most likely stick to orange jumpsuits or whatever else CCP decides should be the 'default' clothing option, at least outside of secure Empire space.



Devs please clarify more on losing of clothes/getting podded and the default clothes that await after podding.

IMO losing the clothes you have on your avatar pic is a terrible idea. Instead, the clothes you have on your avatar, should be the one you can get into, after podding.

If you buy some extra clothing and are in that set when podded, you lose that one, but are in "default" avatar picture clothes when you wake up at clone bay. Or at least you wake up in "gown" but can find your "default" clothes in your wardrobe.

The idea of ppl who have only one set of "avatar" clothes, losing them after getting podded seems kinda stewpid to say the least!

Cuz I pretty much(as presumably many) won't bother buying clothes after getting podded! Rolling Eyes

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:59:00 - [367]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 27/05/2011 18:01:54
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
You add extra demand by providing more uses for plex, without any extra supply. So unless you also reduce the price of plex how can it not have an impact?

There's some worrying details to the cycle in the blog that was left out.

Plex purchase -> Cycle shown in blog -> Destruction of items.

I find it worrying because these extra details provide revenue to CCP in ways that are obscure to many. When real life money transactions are involved I think its fair to have transparency. Real life money also gets linked closer to game assets than ever before.

In the short term: huge influx of new players that are generally MT-tolerant and were so far held back by the lack of space barbies.
Those new player will have a high demand for ISK and probably a lower aversion towards the spending of RL money on ISK than most of the old-school customers. (customers can be dinosaurs, too!!!)
-> Increased PLEX supply.

Long term: most MMOs don't survive into the long term anyways...




MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:00:00 - [368]
 

Originally by: Gumpy Nighthawk
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG

Having another currency for Incarna (Aurum (AUR)) helps us generate a lot more income from the already paying consumer base. More currencies are also simply just more fun and the fact that vanity items can be sold on the secondary market by players themselves opens up a lot of trading opportunities. Fun times ahead. Smile


I just had to fix that statement for you Dr.EyjoG. Also more currencies makes it more fun?? Really??? Also Vanity items being sold on the secondary market could also have happened if people would just buy them with ISK and sell them in Jita for a markup, just like every other commodity is traded in eve.

Its just sad that as an already paying customer I would have to pay even more to get actually rather useless items. This would make perfect sence if this game would have been free to play, but it is not.


what you babbling on about? you only need to pay real money if you want to stock a shop full of jackets.

just pay me 200,000 isk instead. you don't have to pay a penny.

DEBEBEBNEB Barviainen
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:01:00 - [369]
 

I will support this only if I can have a giant Rainbow Dash on my ship, otherwise this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

Yankee Sullivan
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:07:00 - [370]
 

Please allow us to turn off other peoples ship decals,
I don't want to see it, I like the design concept as it is now, no offense to anyone, but I don't want to see what you guys stick on your ships thinking its cool.

Seeing racing stripes and other nonsense will do nothing for me, and break the cold, unforgiving atmosphere this game has, and that I signed up for.

Buzzmong
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:09:00 - [371]
 

Edited by: Buzzmong on 27/05/2011 18:11:50
I have a question, preferably answered by CCP Hammer or someone high up in CCP:

Who is responsible for the original idea of this entire system at CCP, of if you don't want to/can't give names, which area of CCP are they from?

I ask because if it's from the managerial and financial staff I can understand, but if it's come from the Game Design and Content teams then I fear very much for Eve Online, not just as a spaceship game, but even as the over-arching Sci-fi game CCP want it to become.

I also fear that while this might be good for CCP's coffers in the short term, I think it could be very bad for the actual game in the long run.

Of course, knowing Eve players, I actually think this entire microtransaction system for vanity items will be pretty much ignored if this is it's current state. EvE players don't seem to want it and quite frankly, were extremely proud of and happy that the game didn't have a MT system.

Azahni Zahr'dor
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:11:00 - [372]
 

As it wasn't answered before:

CCP, have you considered making clothing items, paint jobs insurable?

It would still be an ISK sink and wont make it look like your just money-grubbing through Micro Transactions. Because from reading the responses that appears to be what most people see this as.

I have to say, with the planned removal of the current choices of clothing you should have expected a backlash.

Myself, so far I'm fairly indifferent with this change and will wait and see what the final rollout will be before deciding either way.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:11:00 - [373]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Also, jump clones may come in handy again


Shocked They're pretty handy right now. Like...in null sec for fast moving around. Or for having a variety of implant setups for different ships.

Junko Sideswipe
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:13:00 - [374]
 

Edited by: Junko Sideswipe on 27/05/2011 18:14:31
I made a bit of concept art to help your art team along with my proposal.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Cool Cool Cool I look forward to working with you further. Cool Cool Cool

CCP Zinfandel

Posted - 2011.05.27 18:13:00 - [375]
 

Originally by: Ruby Khann
Asking both these questions again, hoping for a reply.

1. When I created my character I chose an outfit. Will I always have instant access to this outfit wherever I go? Will I lose it when podded and have to shell out gold for it?


Always available. No cost for the free one.

Originally by: Ruby Khann

2. Does the new "vision" for waking up in a fresh medical clone increase the time it takes to get back out into space?


I don't believe so but I'm not working on that team and can't speak to that one.

Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:14:00 - [376]
 

Originally by: Buzzmong
Of course, knowing Eve players, I actually think this entire microtransaction system for vanity items will be pretty much ignored if this is it's current state. EvE players don't seem to want it and quite frankly, were extremely proud of and happy that the game didn't have a MT system.


Indeed, I don't really picture Eve Players being the kind of people that enjoy hanging around in fancy clothing they bought at an RMT store. Maybe we can conclude that the current playerbase is no longer their target audience.

pmchem
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:14:00 - [377]
 

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: pmchem
Aurum is an elegant solution by CCP to two problems:
1. there are too many unredeemed PLEX in the universe (accountants complain)
2. there is too much stockpiled ISK (economist complains)

Making Aurum only available from PLEX directly addresses problem #1.

Problem #2 means that if new Incarna items were sold through fixed price NPC sell orders (think POS fuel before Tyrannis), the universe would quickly be flooded with them, devaluing Incarna. Selling them for fixed prices in Aurum means that the items' prices FLOAT in isk, since that exchange rate will vary with PLEX pricing. The greater the rush to buy Incarna items, the more expensive they become. So stockpiled isk has a lesser effect on Incarna items than it would otherwise.

The immediate side effect of making PLEX more expensive also means that buying isk via RMT is less competitive with buying isk legitimately via GTC sales. I'm sure this was a 'total accident', right CCP? :)

Well done.

Could we get a comment from CCP as to the Eve economist's thoughts on Aurum? It is a new currency, after all.


Having another currency for Incarna (Aurum (AUR)) helps a lot in terms of managing the overall money supply in EVE and simply gives us more tools to react to any imbalance situation that might come up over the years. More currencies are also simply just more fun and the fact that vanity items can be sold on the secondary market by players themselves opens up a lot of trading opportunities. Fun times ahead. Smile


Yes, it's just a currency. I think many of the people complaining about microtransactions are ignoring being able to buy AUR with ISK, and instead focusing on how you have to spend $$$ to get GTC which generate PLEX. But since you can buy AUR with ISK and CCP can inject PLEX to the market (if it runs dry), it's not really a microtransaction like buying items in TF2. You can get any of the AUR-bought items without ever buying a GTC. Heck, you can also just buy them for ISK on the open market after someone else buys them for AUR first.

I think CCP should emphasize this more strongly in a dev blog, to prevent backlash against 'microtransactions'. This is not fundamentally different from already existing uses for GTC/PLEX ingame. It just adds a currency intermediate dependent upon PLEX.

Velarra
Caldari
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:14:00 - [378]
 

Originally by: CCP Hammer
Originally by: Sigvald Gottschalk
Cool, a bunch of immersion breaking, money grubbing bull**** that has nothing to do with spaceships. Thanks for the hard work, CCP.
I'm willing to concede your opinion that avatars in stations is sci-fi rather than purely spaceships and I would even agree that CCP is a for profit business. What I strongly disagree with and would like more explanation on is why this is immersion breaking in your opinion.


One moment you're in space, in a space ship outside a station. A few seconds later, after pressing dock, you're fully dressed and in your quarters.

From an immersion perspective it's an acutely shattering experience.

When will new players begin to presume there is no pod, that pods in space are just emergency escape capsules for the captain of the ship that was just destroyed, who must obviously command a crew on the bridge of his starship?

CCP Zinfandel

Posted - 2011.05.27 18:17:00 - [379]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Also, jump clones may come in handy again


Shocked They're pretty handy right now. Like...in null sec for fast moving around. Or for having a variety of implant setups for different ships.


Yeah, I said that wrong.

Also, we are actively discussing elements of this thread to see where we need to tweak things. But some of this feedback will be even more valuable once folks have had a chance to experience it on Duality in person.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:19:00 - [380]
 

I forgot to mention this I have to say Kudos to you for how you spun this as, we want to give you what you asked us for but to do it we'll have to charge you more money, ie this is all your fault players.

Now we've gone and done the work and will keep doing the work to give you what you want but it is just so costly we need to pay for it somehow. Rolling Eyes
So we'll add microtransactions to pay for it and only if YOU want it will you pay for it. If you don't want it those people we paid and keep paying to make that stuff didn't make that stuff or work on stuff you didn't want them to work on and were actually working on things you do care about with the money you paid us for your subscription. BUT if you wanted that stuff you'll have to pay us MORE money to pay them to do the job they did for the stuff you want.

Also we won't start talking about how we're simultaneously making 2 other games while only EVE online is making us money cause that is totally off topic and unrelated to this. Wink

TLDR: YOU asked for this and we can only give it to you with microtransactions, that if you don't participate in will leave you wearing the same thing as everyone else who doesn't participate (pay) for them wears. This helps you identify with your avatar and creates immersion where everyone wears the same clothing if they don't support vanity items cash shop.

Minty Spidersauce
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:21:00 - [381]
 

Originally by: Silpher
If this isn't some late April 1st joke, I have actually lost some respect for CCP for the first time in my 5 years of playing. This is the most upsetting feature CCP has ever released.

EmbarassedTHIS IS EMBARRASSING!Embarassed

Does this mean that player made clothing stores are out? Or did they just take the best designs from that, call them vanity items and decide to just sell them for real money?



Agree with this. Was kind of looking forward to a boost to industry.

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:22:00 - [382]
 

Originally by: Junko Sideswipe
Edited by: Junko Sideswipe on 27/05/2011 18:14:31
I made a bit of concept art to help your art team along with my proposal.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Cool Cool Cool I look forward to working with you further. Cool Cool Cool


I NEED THIS!!!! EVEN IF I HAVE TO SPEND A MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF PLEXES!!!!!

Lord Bloodwars
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:26:00 - [383]
 

I think we should be able to make clothes and have shops to sell them...Just like we make other stuff in eve..We could have all different types of shops and people will be able to manufacture clothes/footware/accessories for peoples quarters and so on..

Avraham Avinu
Children of Noah
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:29:00 - [384]
 

A first MMO forex market?

These two currencies will introduce a foreign exchange rate that CCP will regulate. I'm assuming it will have similar effects similar to the interest rates of two countries, valuing and devaluing the currency of one country over another. In effect, this will create a forex market, am I right?

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:30:00 - [385]
 

At the moment on duality 1 GTC gives 3500 AUR.
assuming GTC costs 300mill isk.
1 AUR currently has a cost price of 85,714.29 isk.
as most GTC's cost over 300mill the ave AUR cost price in isk will be higher than that.
Thus the VERY cheapest items you would be able to buy for AUR would be more than the value of some T1 Frigates. (atm everything is 1 AUR in the Vanity store but its the test server)

The RL $EUR cost per AUR will be $34.99/(2*3500) = just under 0.5cents ($0.005EUR)
So they could add 10cents to our bills and give us 20 AUR free every month.
however by making AUR only purchasable through plex means you have to by 2 plex or 7000 AUR at once, so its bulk buy or nothing.

Now from an in-game role-play perspective, a Rifter costs about 270k isk.

A Rifter is about the size of a 747-400 jumbo jet, which retail at about $260 Million USD (wiki 2007 price)

so assuming comparable real world costs the USD to ISK exchange rate is of the order of 1000:1.

This means that our characters (immortal pod pilots) which use an inter-galactic currency suited for their needs, would be paying out in the order of 86+ Million of whatever local currency the poor mortals down on the planets below use for currency, for a pair of pants or an eye patch.... and this ISN'T immersion breaking???????

X201207
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:31:00 - [386]
 

Will the fanfest shirt be able to be traded on the market once Incarna goes live? I wanted to give it to one of my alts.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:32:00 - [387]
 

i really don't get why I can
t walk down the stairs to my pod.

or why there is no animation of me getting in it. : (

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:34:00 - [388]
 

Dislike this

Bubba Coronet
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:36:00 - [389]
 

Originally by: Nayette Ellis Dalogne
"We have been wardecced again. Everyone take off your clothes, we're forming a fleet to hunt the enemy down..."
It's war! EVERYBODY GET NAKED!!!! WOO HOO!!!!YARRRR!!

Bridget Helm
Posted - 2011.05.27 18:40:00 - [390]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah
This means that our characters (immortal pod pilots) which use an inter-galactic currency suited for their needs, would be paying out in the order of 86+ Million of whatever local currency the poor mortals down on the planets below use for currency, for a pair of pants or an eye patch.... and this ISN'T immersion breaking???????


Interesting but I see your logic and raise you some real world logic. Why buy an mouse when you could buy this mouse... http://www.fabstuff.net/products/664

I can see the Incarna stuff as being the ultimate branding item.. and Ipod ... or is that taken ?


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