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Trocent
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:22:00 - [331]
 

Originally by: CCP Hammer
Originally by: Katrishar
Again, I think this system sounds awesome. Quick question though.... When we go down to just having 1 "noob ship" style default outfit after being podded, will there be the other character customization screen outfit choices available for "cheap?" In general will you have cheap and expensive clothes? I vote for this.
Short answer is yes. This first pass is simply a tracer bullet to gauge response. The future vision is that after being podded you will wake up in a clone bay in a medical gown. Then you will get your free orange noobie overalls (or whatever we come up with) but there will be all sorts of inexpensive stuff on offer to change into or maybe you weren't wearing your favorite stuff anyway and you can just put that one.


This better be a joke or you've effectively killed Eve and Incarna in one perfect blow. I've been giving CCP the benefit of the doubt but now... well Im in shock.

- This post alone has turned me off of incarna.
- Im uninstalling Dualality because its not worth sending bug reports.
- If the quoted post is the way its going to be, I wont be making any use of In station invironments (You best give us that 'old in station environment' button)
- I really hope getting podded wont force us to have to walk around to get new clothes. If thats the case PvP gets a huge nerf.
- If this effects our character portait... Well, Eve is dead.

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:23:00 - [332]
 

Oh so cool. I can use micro transactions to play dress up. You should look into buying the license to Bratz dolls and hello kitty while you are at it.

How long until I can use micro transactions to buy dance moves?

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:27:00 - [333]
 

Edited by: Gogela on 27/05/2011 18:23:16
removed

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:29:00 - [334]
 

Originally by: Arcathra
So I can loose my vanity items that I paid with real money permanently? Are you serious? Really? Some jackets, shoes, glasses and shirts will be worth more than any battleship or implant. And then you are talking about immersion... riiiight.


You can already buy anything in game with "real money." Buy a GTC, convert it into PLEX, sell it for ISK and use the ISK to buy a ship. That ship costs "real money." Clearly it's a terrible idea and CCP should stop it at once.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:29:00 - [335]
 

Edited by: Kerrisone on 27/05/2011 17:43:42
Originally by: Quillana
Just charge more for subscriptions and expand the clothing choices and add a ship workshop like need for speed with their cars. Then there is no messing around with the basic core of the game. ugh


This has little to do with revenue issues but more to do with accessing a new 'market' of players willing to pay real money for 'vanity' items and later who knows. CCP had plenty of money to startup DUST, WOD, while making a profit and running EVE.

If they raised prices on the sub they'd still want a cash shop, the price they charge is perfectly fine to support the game at some number of subscribers it might be 40k it might be 100k but once they reach that # EVE pays for itself and makes them a profit.

Just like Dust514(console market) vanity items open up a new revenue stream on top of their cash cow EVEONLINE, as will WOD. This is what CCP wants, more money for CCP does not mean EVE gets better or more money gets spent on EVE, clearly it just means CCP can do more of what they want, be it produce a new PC MMO, or console game.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:30:00 - [336]
 

Edited by: I''thari on 27/05/2011 17:31:46
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

Originally by: Axon Atom

no it's just a cheap motel room.


with your own personal stripper pole inside Shocked

buy it once, have it installed in 1362 (not counting outposts) cheap motel rooms.

that's pretty awesome.
Matari engineering at its best: you can find almost anything if you sort through all that junk lying around, just ask locals where to look Razz

Cna't say for other races tho...

edit: quote >.<

Chomin H'ak
Integrated Takeovers
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:32:00 - [337]
 

So what you're saying is you're adding microtransactions not with real money, but with PLEX. This will, invariably, raise PLEX prices regardless of how much 'watching' CCP is doing. Can't say I'm happy with how this is being implemented, but I don't mind cashing in on a huge mistake. Just my .02, but there's better ways.

I'll tell you what this thread needs, moar Chribba.Very Happy

Heavenly Blues
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:33:00 - [338]
 

Edited by: Heavenly Blues on 27/05/2011 17:36:52
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


Never go full ******. You just went full ******.

Ayumikata
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:34:00 - [339]
 

Edited by: Ayumikata on 27/05/2011 17:35:37
Seriously? Micro transactions in a monthly subscription game? You're saying you don't want to up the costs, but while I'm sure a few people want you to spend 100,000 man hours on a piece of clothing, I'm sure MOST of us don't want you to, and certainly don't want to see 300million ISK t-shirts on the market and the implementation of a micro-transaction system in the game. Are you going to start charging Plexes to be able to access the public zone too? Perhaps nullsec will have a toll fee of 10,000 aurums.

I think you're thinking too much, while in-station clothing is cool, we don't want a MT system to go with it, don't go off thinking "oh everyone wants 15 quatrillion polygon t-shirts, guess it's time to hire 200 more designers, and where gunna have to get more money now". Though actually the reverse of that happened probably: we want money -> make MT system and make them think they want t-shirts.

****ing MT in EVE Online, I guess I was here for the fall of EVE.

And yea, sure you can buy plex with real money, and transfer the plex into isk, but you can do the opposite too. ISK into a PLEX. Didn't see anywhere where you could turn ISK into AURUM.
This is just a start, from t-shirts to special ships, modules to system access. Privileges are probably coming next. 1,000,000 aurum and you double you LP gain for a day!

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:34:00 - [340]
 

Will the clothes be displayed

<------- here

too?

Javajunky
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:35:00 - [341]
 

-1 to CCP.

Must be the same guy who thought up breaking jump bridges. Generally you've a more sophisticated player base than other vanity items type games.

I play the game until it's no longer playable, that's -7 accounts. At the end of the day you may attract some new subscriptions, idiots of other MOO's who say ooh look that's purrrty. What you'll get is most people sign up for a month and can't get past the intro missions, so all of this is for driving trial subscriptions that will have low probability of conversion once they realize Eve is just like life, it sucks and it's unforgiving.

Bad demographic to market to, wasted investment.

i hatechosingnames
Gallente
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:35:00 - [342]
 

please please please don't make this game like hat fortress 2.
concentrate on improving the game to attract new customers instead of trying to milk existing subscribers with microtransaction gimmicks.

CCP Dr.EyjoG

Posted - 2011.05.27 17:35:00 - [343]
 

Originally by: pmchem
Aurum is an elegant solution by CCP to two problems:
1. there are too many unredeemed PLEX in the universe (accountants complain)
2. there is too much stockpiled ISK (economist complains)

Making Aurum only available from PLEX directly addresses problem #1.

Problem #2 means that if new Incarna items were sold through fixed price NPC sell orders (think POS fuel before Tyrannis), the universe would quickly be flooded with them, devaluing Incarna. Selling them for fixed prices in Aurum means that the items' prices FLOAT in isk, since that exchange rate will vary with PLEX pricing. The greater the rush to buy Incarna items, the more expensive they become. So stockpiled isk has a lesser effect on Incarna items than it would otherwise.

The immediate side effect of making PLEX more expensive also means that buying isk via RMT is less competitive with buying isk legitimately via GTC sales. I'm sure this was a 'total accident', right CCP? :)

Well done.

Could we get a comment from CCP as to the Eve economist's thoughts on Aurum? It is a new currency, after all.


Having another currency for Incarna (Aurum (AUR)) helps a lot in terms of managing the overall money supply in EVE and simply gives us more tools to react to any imbalance situation that might come up over the years. More currencies are also simply just more fun and the fact that vanity items can be sold on the secondary market by players themselves opens up a lot of trading opportunities. Fun times ahead. Smile

Eretria Ohmsford
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:37:00 - [344]
 

Edited by: Eretria Ohmsford on 27/05/2011 17:36:51
I've canceled my account as of a few minutes ago. No, you can't have my stuff.

TheLostPenguin
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:38:00 - [345]
 

Originally by: Gogela
Originally by: Ruby Khann
Asking both these questions again, hoping for a reply.

1. When I created my character I chose an outfit. Will I always have instant access to this outfit wherever I go? Will I lose it when podded and have to shell out gold for it?

2. Does the new "vision" for waking up in a fresh medical clone increase the time it takes to get back out into space?


...or you could just read the thread. The only cloths that come with you are those that you bring. If you are wearing them and you get podded they are lost, and yes you need to use more 'gold' to get new ones. If they are in your cargo hold they drop or are destroyed like regular items.

Waking up in a new clone shouldn't be any different than docking and undocking post ambulation.


...or you could read the thread and see that Zinfandel and Hammer are saying diferent things about "default" cloths, really they need to try talking to each other before they post on forumsEmbarassed

Kayscha
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:39:00 - [346]
 

I'm so ****ing mad at you at the moment I don't even know where or how to start complaining.

I've paid for years for your game while you promised us all these nice things, and now you dare to charge extra money for every little crap.

Don't tell me you've spent all our money on server upkeep and maintenance, because your track record in that regard is so bad it can't have been that expensive. I trusted you'd invest it into Eve's future, and now you tell us you need additional money for, what, reskins?

That is a bloody lie and you know it well!

I've defended all the sacrifices that were asked of us in the name of Incarna and other side projects, arguing that it's all in our interest, making this game ever better with your great concept of subscription-funded, "free" add-ons. And now you do this.
I've never before used any profanity on this board, and hardly ever in RL, so excuse me:

****ing sellout bastards!

I'm still in shock at this betrayal. (no yo can't have my stuff, I don't have any)

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:40:00 - [347]
 

Since clothing is now destructible, like many posters I will most likely stick to orange jumpsuits or whatever else CCP decides should be the 'default' clothing option, at least outside of secure Empire space.

That said, I don't really understand the amount of complaints about clothing being destructible. As CCP has said, clothing will effectively act like swappable implants. This means you will be able to remove an expensive suit and change into the free suit provided by CCP before doing something dangerous, much the same way that smart folk already swap from their +5 clones to implantless clones or clones with +3 implants when engaging in PvP. Unless CCP starts to charge for using the dressing mirror, changing to the n00b-suit won't take more than a few seconds and will be completely free, so there's not much risk of loss so long as a person isn't stupid. Of course, the same silly people who now transport stacks of PLEX in T1 frigates will probably start transporting stacks of expensive clothes and then whine when they inevitably get blown up outside Jita undock, but that's completely their fault.

That said, it would be nice if CCP let us keep the selection of clothing currently available in the character creator. But it's their game and their business model, and overall the implementation seems to be sound.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:40:00 - [348]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 27/05/2011 17:44:49
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: pmchem
Aurum is an elegant solution by CCP to two problems:
1. there are too many unredeemed PLEX in the universe (accountants complain)
2. there is too much stockpiled ISK (economist complains)

Making Aurum only available from PLEX directly addresses problem #1.

Problem #2 means that if new Incarna items were sold through fixed price NPC sell orders (think POS fuel before Tyrannis), the universe would quickly be flooded with them, devaluing Incarna. Selling them for fixed prices in Aurum means that the items' prices FLOAT in isk, since that exchange rate will vary with PLEX pricing. The greater the rush to buy Incarna items, the more expensive they become. So stockpiled isk has a lesser effect on Incarna items than it would otherwise.

The immediate side effect of making PLEX more expensive also means that buying isk via RMT is less competitive with buying isk legitimately via GTC sales. I'm sure this was a 'total accident', right CCP? :)

Well done.

Could we get a comment from CCP as to the Eve economist's thoughts on Aurum? It is a new currency, after all.


Having another currency for Incarna (Aurum (AUR)) helps a lot in terms of managing the overall money supply in EVE and simply gives us more tools to react to any imbalance situation that might come up over the years. More currencies are also simply just more fun and the fact that vanity items can be sold on the secondary market by players themselves opens up a lot of trading opportunities. Fun times ahead. Smile


As long as you don't have items that cost the same as one plex.

but I'm sure I don't have to tell you of all people that : P

Ayumikata
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:43:00 - [349]
 

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: pmchem
Aurum is an elegant solution by CCP to two problems:
1. there are too many unredeemed PLEX in the universe (accountants complain)
2. there is too much stockpiled ISK (economist complains)

Making Aurum only available from PLEX directly addresses problem #1.

Problem #2 means that if new Incarna items were sold through fixed price NPC sell orders (think POS fuel before Tyrannis), the universe would quickly be flooded with them, devaluing Incarna. Selling them for fixed prices in Aurum means that the items' prices FLOAT in isk, since that exchange rate will vary with PLEX pricing. The greater the rush to buy Incarna items, the more expensive they become. So stockpiled isk has a lesser effect on Incarna items than it would otherwise.

The immediate side effect of making PLEX more expensive also means that buying isk via RMT is less competitive with buying isk legitimately via GTC sales. I'm sure this was a 'total accident', right CCP? :)

Well done.

Could we get a comment from CCP as to the Eve economist's thoughts on Aurum? It is a new currency, after all.


Having another currency for Incarna (Aurum (AUR)) helps a lot in terms of managing the overall money supply in EVE and simply gives us more tools to react to any imbalance situation that might come up over the years. More currencies are also simply just more fun and the fact that vanity items can be sold on the secondary market by players themselves opens up a lot of trading opportunities. Fun times ahead. Smile


I don't get the whole "there is too much ISK" problem, all I'm seeing is a way to drive up the amount of PLEX purchases and make non-PLEXers more poor.

But heck, I do hope I'm wrong and this will be all fun and games (read: not the beginning of micro transaction EVE era).

And seriously, for all this ****, the clothing, character animations and controls better not be crap.

CCP Dr.EyjoG

Posted - 2011.05.27 17:43:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: Master Tron
So let me make myself clear.
2 years ago PLEX price was around 200mil isk, now the index of the plex has gone up by 50% so now we are looking price in market 400mil isk.
Other way to get plex is with RL money, we convert GTC to PLEX. This will be as it is and it will not have any change. If now we take AUR in what is made from PLEX. PLEX price will go up from 400mil to 600mil isk and in next 2 years the price will go even more up... about half of the users in this game use PLEX to play this game. Meaning isk you make and buy PLEX keeps your users in this game (key: "you don't need to pay any RL money to play this game"). If you take AUR in then AUR will push PLEX price up and push GTC (60days gamecards price to isk) up with 50%.
So in the end people don't buy PLEX, but the better option will be under GTC (it gives CCP more RL money). GTC price will go now up to 1,2bil and people who can not afford to make 1,2bil in 60days (we are not robots) will just quit this game (or you have more issues with bots). Only ones who will stay in this game are the ones with huge wallet on Credit Cards.

Good job CCP, you will lose 50% of players who wanted to play this game. Now there is only ones left who buy this game with RL money. If they decide that eve is bad they don't buy the GTC anymore and now eve online will be at point where ballance is what the customers do, if they keep leaving, (remember the ones who play this game basicly free has friend who buy GTC - buddy program) then this game will go upside down.

BUT before you call me an idiot, if you manage to control the PLEX / ISK value as it is, then this game is doing fine, but you need to not just keep eye on it, but to work very hard times on it! There is always someone who want to make more ISK.


Just to clarify - The lowest monthly average price for ISK was in February of 2010 with a value of roughly 265,000,000 ISK (265 million ISK). We are well aware of the potential, and I stress potential, impact on the market and are thus monitoring the situation closely. We do expect a lot of fluctuations while the market stabilizes based on information in this new devblog. But as you have seen today the market can adjust by itself very rapidly. Sell offers are currently at 404.7 million in Jita, down from a 450 million high earlier today. A typical market reaction when there are uncertainties with new information provided.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:44:00 - [351]
 

Originally by: Ayumikata
Edited by: Ayumikata on 27/05/2011 17:35:37
Seriously? Micro transactions in a monthly subscription game? You're saying you don't want to up the costs, but while I'm sure a few people want you to spend 100,000 man hours on a piece of clothing, I'm sure MOST of us don't want you to, and certainly don't want to see 300million ISK t-shirts on the market and the implementation of a micro-transaction system in the game. Are you going to start charging Plexes to be able to access the public zone too? Perhaps nullsec will have a toll fee of 10,000 aurums.

I think you're thinking too much, while in-station clothing is cool, we don't want a MT system to go with it, don't go off thinking "oh everyone wants 15 quatrillion polygon t-shirts, guess it's time to hire 200 more designers, and where gunna have to get more money now". Though actually the reverse of that happened probably: we want money -> make MT system and make them think they want t-shirts.

****ing MT in EVE Online, I guess I was here for the fall of EVE.

And yea, sure you can buy plex with real money, and transfer the plex into isk, but you can do the opposite too. ISK into a PLEX. Didn't see anywhere where you could turn ISK into AURUM.
This is just a start, from t-shirts to special ships, modules to system access. Privileges are probably coming next. 1,000,000 aurum and you double you LP gain for a day!



mirco transactions are only for stocking your shop.

Buy them with isk off the market, it's not as bad as you think.

Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:45:00 - [352]
 

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG

Having another currency for Incarna (Aurum (AUR)) helps a lot in terms of managing the overall money supply in EVE and simply gives us more tools to react to any imbalance situation that might come up over the years. More currencies are also simply just more fun and the fact that vanity items can be sold on the secondary market by players themselves opens up a lot of trading opportunities. Fun times ahead. Smile


Is this a joke ? More currencies equal more fun ? Just be honest and tell us all that you want another revenue stream to make more money.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:45:00 - [353]
 

Originally by: Arcathra
So I can loose my vanity items that I paid with real money permanently? Are you serious? Really? Some jackets, shoes, glasses and shirts will be worth more than any battleship or implant. And then you are talking about immersion... riiiight.


I found this aspect irritating at first, too.

However, CCP had the choice between two options:

(a) make vanity items bind-on-equip

or

(b) make the destructible

If these items were indestructible and can be traded on the market for ISK, the ISK prices for older items would probably collapse after some time as people get bored of them and dump them on the market - nobody would buy the old stuff for AUR anymore and CCP would constantly have to design new collections much like RL fashion designers.

When confronted with this choice BoE items seem to be a lot more un-EVE-ish than destructible items.

Avraham Avinu
Children of Noah
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:47:00 - [354]
 

The conversion ratio will be the greatest ISK drain, greatest virtual money drain ever, in any MMO so far, right?

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:47:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Alice Katsuko
Of course, the same silly people who now transport stacks of PLEX in T1 frigates will probably start transporting stacks of expensive clothes and then whine when they inevitably get blown up outside Jita undock, but that's completely their fault.

That said, it would be nice if CCP let us keep the selection of clothing currently available in the character creator. But it's their game and their business model, and overall the implementation seems to be sound.


tbh I am looking forward immensely to wearing my hand-made 'cloths' worth a billion isk on the promenade and smacking the chavved up local noobs with my absurdly expensive chrome-plated cane.


Kile Kitmoore
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:47:00 - [356]
 

Déjà vu? I remember this game I used to play years ago which my friends and I enjoyed but one day the publisher decided to start RMT. We left and others followed. That game was COH/COV which has gone downhill since, IMO. They boasted how adding RMT would give them more money to fund the game and create all this wonderful content. Worked great up to the point where they started laying off key employees. Was RMT really their demise, only they know but it was a turning point for myself and a number of it's fans? How's RMT working out over at Cryptic? What I am trying to say is, this "Promise Land" of RMT is a myth and while it works for some companies it may not work for yours.

My own views on RMT:
1. It's a tough sell for people who are already paying a sub. However, some might argue that EVE could be considered a F2P.

2. Today it's vanity, tomorrow it could be anything. Promises are pointless because all it takes is changes in management or ownership at CCP and those promises are out the window.

3. My biggest complaint as it relates to EVE is you robbed both the game and it's customers of adding more sand in the sandbox. Imagine if you just made these items available, to be built and customized by the players . Create a system that someone could skill and build a clothing shop, or groups who spend their time gathering the materials for said tailor. What about your existing ship builders? Give them the tools to customize ships. Feeding that circle of players skilling, gathering the materials and selling their goods and services. That ship builder has been robbed of his ability to truly create a ship, customize it and put his name or his corps. name behind it. It's been done before in other games, but not with the backdrop of EVE's massive universe and it's cut-throat game mechanics. I am afraid all you did was take an idea (vanity RMT) born from the multitude of themepark MMO's and stuck it in your beautiful sandbox.

Good luck CCP, I hope this is not Déjà vu for me and a downward spiral for you.

WarlockX
Amarr
Free Trade Corp
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:48:00 - [357]
 

Originally by: CCP Incognito
Originally by: Bienator II
The main question here is:
will i be able to take your monocle if i pod you? :)


No, clothing is destroyed when you get podded, but if you had a stack on monocle's in your cargo hold they will drop like normal.


how does that work!? You can't wear any clothes in the pod!

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:48:00 - [358]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 27/05/2011 17:50:33
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
More currencies are also simply just more fun and the fact that vanity items can be sold on the secondary market by players themselves opens up a lot of trading opportunities. Fun times ahead. Smile

I think the RMT & ISK laundering crowd will wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

ISK -> PLEX -> AUR -> vanity items -> ISK -> lottery -> items -> ISK -> PLEX -> AUR -> vanity items -> ... so much fun Laughing

Leiture
Amarr
Liliis tenaci vimine jungor
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:49:00 - [359]
 

Plex strongly need complete overhaul
  • Fixed isk price . The plex market is gone insane

  • Revaluation of price in euro / US dollar / pound sterling/ other currencies. The current price only benefit to US vendors. Moreover Vat is not the same in the 17 states members of the Eurozone. CCP ought to propose fair prices.




Nayette Ellis Dalogne
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:49:00 - [360]
 

Edited by: Nayette Ellis Dalogne on 27/05/2011 17:52:28
While I don't mind the suggested implementation of micro-transactions, and I'm actually looking forward at what might be available in the shop, there are some things that make me feel icky:

"I'm heading into nullsec, I better leave my clothes at this station to avoid the risk of losing them."

"Crap, I got podded. Alright. I saw those pants for sale in Dodixie, the shirt is on contract in Rens..."

"We have been wardecced again. Everyone take off your clothes, we're forming a fleet to hunt the enemy down..."

It's not the monetary value that bugs me, but doubling the nuisance of getting podded. Not only do I need to grab another ship and fit it, but this way I'll also have to gather all the pieces for that outfit again that I like to wear. Cripes. ugh

Edit: Thinking about it, I myself run the risk of quickly getting into "Ah, screw it" mode, which means I'll be running around in that standard orange jumpsuit. The result is I'd get less enjoyment and immersion out of Incarna, especially as others might very well feel the same way. Vast groups of people who couldn't be bothered to dress up anymore, because they got tired of the hassle.


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