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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:38:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah
Originally by: MotherMoon
*reads thread*

and you guys wonder why girls don't want to come anywhere near this game.

LaughingLaughingLaughing


you implying girls, can't understand physics?


It's ok man if you don't understand what I'm talking about, you never will.

it's painful to watch though.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:40:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Soden Rah
Originally by: MotherMoon
*reads thread*

and you guys wonder why girls don't want to come anywhere near this game.

LaughingLaughingLaughing


you implying girls, can't understand physics?


It's ok man if you don't understand what I'm talking about, you never will.

it's painful to watch though.


heh, sorry didn't edit my post fast enough.
I was also going to suggest we DO know... we just don't care ;-)

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:44:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah


heh, sorry didn't edit my post fast enough.
I was also going to suggest we DO know... we just don't care ;-)


haha!

fair enough my good man : )



Astroka
Posted - 2011.05.28 02:43:00 - [154]
 

So cool to have a dev post here.

Hope you come back with some cool new EVElopedia entry or something. Cool

Novee InFeldspar
Posted - 2011.05.28 03:24:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Shiera Kuni
Actually, if you think about it any magnetic delivery system *I.E. Railguns* wouldn't have recoil either. There are no moving parts save for the ammunition.

nb4flame: I've actually been working on several railgun designs in the past couple of months.


Rubbish. Read up on simple Newtonian physics; "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Throwing the slug out magnetically has the same effect as throwing it out using a chemical explosive propellant. The slug moves one way, the gun moves the other way.

The recoil may or may not be as violent as a conventional gun, but the energies involved are the same.

Astroka
Posted - 2011.05.28 03:29:00 - [156]
 

Edited by: Astroka on 28/05/2011 03:31:29
Originally by: Novee InFeldspar
Originally by: Shiera Kuni
Actually, if you think about it any magnetic delivery system *I.E. Railguns* wouldn't have recoil either. There are no moving parts save for the ammunition.

nb4flame: I've actually been working on several railgun designs in the past couple of months.


Rubbish. Read up on simple Newtonian physics; "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Throwing the slug out magnetically has the same effect as throwing it out using a chemical explosive propellant. The slug moves one way, the gun moves the other way.

The recoil may or may not be as violent as a conventional gun, but the energies involved are the same.

Not sure you completely understand that law. When the projectile strikes its target, it delivers forward kinetic energy, and an equal amount of kinetic energy is delivered in the opposite direction the projectile was traveling.

Think of it this way - there's no explosion or any other physical reaction inside the railgun, and effectively, it's a magnetic tube. If a bullet were fired from a weapon and traveled through a tube as it went along its path, would the tube be propelled backward (experience "recoil")? No, the bullet would not affect it.

Bullets don't kick the gun back, the explosion from the propellant inside the gun kick it back. Railguns/coilguns don't have this explosion and experience no recoil. In conventional guns, most of the energy is wasted and not present in the bullet at all.

Edited for clarity and redundancy removal.

OverlordY
Posted - 2011.05.28 03:47:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: OverlordY on 28/05/2011 04:04:50
Guns that are bolted to the floor tend to have no VISIBLE recoil......

Anything that projects anything has recoil -small or big.

basic railgun - perm magnets instead of electro, same physics.

http://youtu.be/RKyGDWeblQw

oh look recoil , shock horror.

As for lasers - light is a beam of photons, photons have mass last time i checked. A laser with the power of the ones in eve would have recoil id imagine.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2011.05.28 03:48:00 - [158]
 

Edited by: Culmen on 28/05/2011 03:53:57
Edited by: Culmen on 28/05/2011 03:52:31
Originally by: Astroka

Not sure you completely understand that law. When the projectile strikes its target, it delivers forward kinetic energy, and an equal amount of kinetic energy is delivered in the opposite direction the projectile was traveling.

Think of it this way - there's no explosion or any other physical reaction inside the railgun, and effectively, it's a magnetic tube. If a bullet were fired from a weapon and traveled through a tube as it went along its path, would the tube be propelled backward (experience "recoil")? No, the bullet would not affect it.

Bullets don't kick the gun back, the explosion from the propellant inside the gun kick it back. Railguns/coilguns don't have this explosion and experience no recoil. In conventional guns, most of the energy is wasted and not present in the bullet at all.

Edited for clarity and redundancy removal.


Railguns and coil guns do not experience any explosions.
They do experience kick back coming from the magnetic force.

Ever try to push a magnet with another magnet? You're feeling that.
At each point the gauss gun pushes the projectile forward, the same magnetic force is pushing the gauss gun backwards
In the case of the railgun or gauss gun, the force is imparted along the entire barrel rather than at a single point.
But it is force none the less.


Anyways heres a quote from wikipedia on railguns

Quote:
Materials Used The rails and projectiles must be built from strong conductive materials; the rails need to survive the violence of an accelerating projectile, and heating due to the large currents and friction involved. The recoil force exerted on the rails is equal and opposite to the force propelling the projectile. The seat of the recoil force is still debated. The traditional equations predict that the recoil force acts on the breech of the railgun.

Astroka
Posted - 2011.05.28 03:53:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 28/05/2011 03:50:11
Originally by: Astroka

Not sure you completely understand that law. When the projectile strikes its target, it delivers forward kinetic energy, and an equal amount of kinetic energy is delivered in the opposite direction the projectile was traveling.

Think of it this way - there's no explosion or any other physical reaction inside the railgun, and effectively, it's a magnetic tube. If a bullet were fired from a weapon and traveled through a tube as it went along its path, would the tube be propelled backward (experience "recoil")? No, the bullet would not affect it.

Bullets don't kick the gun back, the explosion from the propellant inside the gun kick it back. Railguns/coilguns don't have this explosion and experience no recoil. In conventional guns, most of the energy is wasted and not present in the bullet at all.

Edited for clarity and redundancy removal.


Bullets and coil guns do not experience any explosions.
They do experience kick back comes from the magnetic force.

Ever try to push a magnet with another magnet? You're feeling that.
In the case of the railgun or gauss gun, the force is imparted along the entire barrel rather than at a single point.
But it is force none the less.


This is a rough sketch of what the force would look like

[t]
=================

=================


<================
>
<================


=========<=======
>
=========<=======

================<
>
================<

[/t]

Anyways heres a quote from wikipedia on railguns

Quote:
Materials Used The rails and projectiles must be built from strong conductive materials; the rails need to survive the violence of an accelerating projectile, and heating due to the large currents and friction involved. The recoil force exerted on the rails is equal and opposite to the force propelling the projectile. The seat of the recoil force is still debated. The traditional equations predict that the recoil force acts on the breech of the railgun.


Hmm...when the bullet is pulled forward by magnetic force, the gun would also be pulled backward towards the bullet with equal force.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2011.05.28 03:55:00 - [160]
 

Edited by: Culmen on 28/05/2011 03:57:59
Originally by: Astroka

Hmm...when the bullet is pulled forward by magnetic force, the gun would also be pulled backward towards the bullet with equal force.


Boy did i have to edit that paragraph.
But yeah, that's the general gist.

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.05.28 07:32:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Astroka
Not sure you completely understand that law. When the projectile strikes its target, it delivers forward kinetic energy, and an equal amount of kinetic energy is delivered in the opposite direction the projectile was traveling.

Think of it this way - there's no explosion or any other physical reaction inside the railgun, and effectively, it's a magnetic tube. If a bullet were fired from a weapon and traveled through a tube as it went along its path, would the tube be propelled backward (experience "recoil")? No, the bullet would not affect it.


Momentum, my friend. Kinetic energy is divided in ratio between the bullet and the shooter, momentum is always equal and opposite (Newton's third law). If you do actually understand that law, you'll know the mass(gun) + speed(gun) = mass(shooter) + speed(shooter). I don't blame you though, Hollywood doesn't get it either.

Kueijin Legion
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.05.28 07:41:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Glyken Touchon
Originally by: Astroka
Originally by: Christopher AET
Or possibly that on the fanfest video the only turrets ready to be shown were projectile turrets and blasters. Just because they were strapped to an amarr ship does not mean they were lasers.

Lasers with recoil.

Are you sure the guns are actually recoiling?

looks like a flare from the beam itself that fades to me
Yes that looks like flare and the end of the "barrel" momentarily superheated, with a rapidly cooling glow. I watched on max (1080p) for any movement of the "barrel" and saw none.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.05.28 08:05:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 28/05/2011 08:07:52
Like I said on about the first page of this thread, the barrels aren't moving. It's an optical illusion. Download the Duality client and just watch the glowy tips of the models and don't get distracted by the bright shiney lens flare. Seriously, six pages of the most anal QQ for nothing.

OverlordY
Posted - 2011.05.28 08:10:00 - [164]
 

Edited by: OverlordY on 28/05/2011 08:15:59
XL have recoil at least

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-8NXxC93Es

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.05.28 09:40:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: OverlordY
Edited by: OverlordY on 28/05/2011 08:15:59
XL have recoil at least

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-8NXxC93Es


start video at 14 minutes for the shooting. prior to that shows CQ, gun previews & animations.

Still not convinced that there's any recoil though. just looks like flare from the laser origin. That may be an art problem in itself (if people can't tell)- maybe shrink the flare or move it along the beam a bit?




James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.05.28 10:39:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Astroka
Originally by: Shiera Kuni
Actually, if you think about it any magnetic delivery system *I.E. Railguns* wouldn't have recoil either. There are no moving parts save for the ammunition.

nb4flame: I've actually been working on several railgun designs in the past couple of months.

I hadn't thought about that and I spent a few months being obsessed with railguns and their design.

In theory, only projectile turrets should have recoil, which I guess would make for rather boring animations on the other two major categories.


Er.
No.

You're quite wrong.

Railguns don't have an explosive charge to propel a projectile.
However they do still accelerate a mass.

Which in turn means conservation of momentum applies, and you get recoil.

Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.28 11:05:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 28/05/2011 03:57:59
Originally by: Astroka

Hmm...when the bullet is pulled forward by magnetic force, the gun would also be pulled backward towards the bullet with equal force.


Boy did i have to edit that paragraph.
But yeah, that's the general gist.


This is why railguns do **** dps in game. It's realistic... if they did large amounts of DPS, the turrets would rip themselves from the ship's hull.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.05.28 11:05:00 - [168]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 28/05/2011 12:41:34
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Like I said on about the first page of this thread, the barrels aren't moving. It's an optical illusion. Download the Duality client and just watch the glowy tips of the models and don't get distracted by the bright shiney lens flare.
Yes they are. Download the Duality client and watch the collar of the barrel (and then go into space with some lasers fitted and fire them). By looking at the tip, you are being distracted by the shiney lense flare — look further down the barrel (which isn't obscured by the flare) and you'll see it quite clearly. When the gun fires, the barrel telescopes into itself.

Compare the barrel lengths on the very same gun in this side-by-side comparison (or this barrel-for-barrel composite). Notice how the barrel has three parts to it: the base, a middle collar, and the tip. Notice how, when firing, the collar retracts into the base and the tip retracts into the collar. It recoils like there's no tomorrow.
Originally by: Astroka
Not sure you completely understand that law. When the projectile strikes its target, it delivers forward kinetic energy, and an equal amount of kinetic energy is delivered in the opposite direction the projectile was traveling.
When the projectile strikes its target, we're talking about something completely different than recoil, so that's of no relevance here. When the bullet hits the target, its momentum is imparted on the target, and the opposite reaction is that the target imparts its momentum on the bullet (and hopefully, the target is more plastic than the bullet, or it's the bullet that goes squish). The shooter is not a part of the equation at this point.
Quote:
Think of it this way - there's no explosion or any other physical reaction inside the railgun, and effectively, it's a magnetic tube.
…and instead of an explosion, there's a magnetic field that pushes the slug along the barrel. The same magnetic field will also push the barrel along the slug in the opposite direction. Unless you've made some serious errors in your design, the slug is much lighter than the barrel and shoots off… if not, the barrel will shoot off and the slug will remain largely stationary.

…but either way: the same force that pushes the slug forward will also push the barrel back. Which of the two moves the most is merely a matter of mass ratios (and you can always cheat by bolting the railgun to the ground and make Mass|Barrel = Mass|Earth+ε).
Quote:
If a bullet were fired from a weapon and traveled through a tube as it went along its path, would the tube be propelled backward (experience "recoil")?
If the tube was projecting a magnetic field — essentially a second rail gun — then yes, yes it would.
Quote:
Bullets don't kick the gun back, the explosion from the propellant inside the gun kick it back. Railguns/coilguns don't have this explosion and experience no recoil.
And nether does the slug in a rail kick the gun back — the magnetic field that acts as a propellant does (and at the same time, kicks the slug forward).

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.28 11:31:00 - [169]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 28/05/2011 13:09:09
Quote:
…and instead of an explosion, there's a magnetic field that pushes the slug along the barrel. The same magnetic field will also push the barrel along the slug in the opposite direction. Unless you've made some serious errors in your design, the slug is much lighter than the barrel and shoots off… if not, the barrel will shoot off and the slug will remain largely stationary. …but either way: the same force that pushes the slug forward will also push the barrel back. Which of the two moves the most is merely a matter of mass ratios (and you can always cheat by bolting the railgun to the ground and make Mass|Barrel = Mass|Earth+ε).



Your 100% correct.

So the real question is, if yo took a rail gun, and put it in space. Like 100% in space, not tied down to ANYTHING. Would the rail gun and the slug both move in separate directions at full speed since there is no gravity to give any of the objects weight?

When on earth the cannon of a rail gun does not recoil becuase the cannons is stuck there more than the slug is. But what about in space?

Now take that outcome, and bolt the rail gun cannon to a ship. Now the slug obviously has less "attraction" to the surface the cannon is bolted too.



So yeah I think the fact that space is weightless might effect recoil.

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.28 11:44:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Novee InFeldspar
Originally by: Shiera Kuni
Actually, if you think about it any magnetic delivery system *I.E. Railguns* wouldn't have recoil either. There are no moving parts save for the ammunition.

nb4flame: I've actually been working on several railgun designs in the past couple of months.


Rubbish. Read up on simple Newtonian physics; "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Throwing the slug out magnetically has the same effect as throwing it out using a chemical explosive propellant. The slug moves one way, the gun moves the other way.

The recoil may or may not be as violent as a conventional gun, but the energies involved are the same.


Outch, then rail guns should become "larger" when they shoot instead of recoil?

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.05.28 11:52:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Quote:
…and instead of an explosion, there's a magnetic field that pushes the slug along the barrel. The same magnetic field will also push the barrel along the slug in the opposite direction. Unless you've made some serious errors in your design, the slug is much lighter than the barrel and shoots off… if not, the barrel will shoot off and the slug will remain largely stationary. …but either way: the same force that pushes the slug forward will also push the barrel back. Which of the two moves the most is merely a matter of mass ratios (and you can always cheat by bolting the railgun to the ground and make Mass|Barrel = Mass|Earth+ε).



Your 100% correct.

So the real question is, if yo took a rail gun, and put it in space. Like 100% in space, not tied down to ANYTHING. Would the rail gun and the buttle both move it separate directions at full speed since there is no gravity to give any of the objects weight?

When on earth the cannon of a rail gun does not recoil becuase the cannons is stuck there more than the slug is. But what about in space?

Now take that outcome, and bolt the rail gun cannon to a ship. Now the slug obviously has less "attraction" to the surface the cannon is bolted too.



So yeah I think the fact that space is weightless might effect recoil.


I'm not sure why this is so complicated to some people. Both the projectile and the gun just get equal force applied to them. That means if you hurl something out of the weapon there will be recoil. Depending on the weapon it just alters on how and where that force gets applied to, but the force is always there.

In space, because of the bigger mass the rail gun, it will accelerate less than the projectile and will end up moving at a lower velocity than the projectile. The same amount of force on the small projectile will accelerate it much more and it will end up with a much higher end velocity. It's the mass of the objects that is relevant here and mass doesn't change just because you enter a weightless environment. Weight =/= mass in physics.

Kara Sharalien
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.05.28 12:44:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Astroka

Not sure you completely understand that law. When the projectile strikes its target, it delivers forward kinetic energy, and an equal amount of kinetic energy is delivered in the opposite direction the projectile was traveling.



You clearly don't understand the law either. If the projectile you launch misses the ship and flies off into space, its momentum is perpetually conserved, resulting in an unbalanced system.

But that's an aside.

Now, educate yourself.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.05.28 12:52:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Astroka
Edited by: Astroka on 28/05/2011 03:31:29
Originally by: Novee InFeldspar
Originally by: Shiera Kuni
Actually, if you think about it any magnetic delivery system *I.E. Railguns* wouldn't have recoil either. There are no moving parts save for the ammunition.

nb4flame: I've actually been working on several railgun designs in the past couple of months.


Rubbish. Read up on simple Newtonian physics; "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Throwing the slug out magnetically has the same effect as throwing it out using a chemical explosive propellant. The slug moves one way, the gun moves the other way.

The recoil may or may not be as violent as a conventional gun, but the energies involved are the same.

Not sure you completely understand that law. When the projectile strikes its target, it delivers forward kinetic energy, and an equal amount of kinetic energy is delivered in the opposite direction the projectile was travelling.

Think of it this way - there's no explosion or any other physical reaction inside the railgun, and effectively, it's a magnetic tube. If a bullet were fired from a weapon and travelled through a tube as it went along its path, would the tube be propelled backward (experience "recoil")? No, the bullet would not affect it.

Bullets don't kick the gun back, the explosion from the propellant inside the gun kick it back. Railguns/coilguns don't have this explosion and experience no recoil. In conventional guns, most of the energy is wasted and not present in the bullet at all.

Edited for clarity and redundancy removal.


For clarity. I studied Physics at university. I DO completely understand the law.
The rail or coil gun exerts a force on the projectile using electrical and magnetic forces.
The same forces operating on the projectile act in the opposite direction on the gun.
A rail or coil gun is a form of mass driver, these are actually proposed as propulsion systems because of the recoil (check out mass driver on wiki).

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.05.28 12:55:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 28/05/2011 08:07:52
Like I said on about the first page of this thread, the barrels aren't moving. It's an optical illusion. Download the Duality client and just watch the glowy tips of the models and don't get distracted by the bright shiney lens flare. Seriously, six pages of the most anal QQ for nothing.


I have run duality, on high res you see the bright glowing tips move forwards again after recoiling... maybe the animation doesn't run on low settings.. but they definately recoil.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.05.28 13:00:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 28/05/2011 03:57:59
Originally by: Astroka

Hmm...when the bullet is pulled forward by magnetic force, the gun would also be pulled backward towards the bullet with equal force.


Boy did i have to edit that paragraph.
But yeah, that's the general gist.


This is why railguns do **** dps in game. It's realistic... if they did large amounts of DPS, the turrets would rip themselves from the ship's hull.


then why to projectiles do fantastic dps?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.05.28 13:09:00 - [176]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 28/05/2011 13:13:20
Originally by: MotherMoon
Would the rail gun and the buttle both move it separate directions at full speed since there is no gravity to give any of the objects weight?
Yes, because weight is not a factor, and exactly what "full speed" means depends on the mass of the thing that's being pushed. The slug is very very tiny and low-mass, so "full speed" when we've applied force to it is very very high; the gun is very very large and high-mass, so "full speed" when we've applied force to it is very very low.
Quote:
When on earth the cannon of a rail gun does not recoil becuase the cannons is stuck there more than the slug is. But what about in space?
It doesn't recoil (much) because the Mass(Cannon+Earth) is so immensely much larger than the mass of the slug. If we move to space, the Mass(Cannon+Ship) is not as large, but compared to the slug, it will still be a ratio of umptizillions-to-one… so the effect is much the same.

However, this doesn't mean that the cannon won't recoil when bolted down to the earth — it just means that the entire earth moves from the recoil… by such a small amount that it probably gets lost due to quantum indeterminacy.
Quote:
Now take that outcome, and bolt the rail gun cannon to a ship. Now the slug obviously has less "attraction" to the surface the cannon is bolted too.
Sure. In a gravity field, the earth would tug a bit on the slug, but for all its strength, gravity is a very puny and weak force.

All it does is pull that slug downwards at 9.8m/s˛. A railgun that accelerates its slug to 5,000m/s in 0.1s (which is far from inconceivable), on the other hand pushes the slug along at one million m/s˛. The by now famous Navy railgun test fired its slug at 40,000g… So that weight factor is negligible in comparison. If we fire straight up, the slug only reaches 4,999.95m/s rather than the full 5,000m/s.

And regardless of weight, the force used to achieve that acceleration remains exactly the same, which means the recoil remains the same as well.
Quote:
So yeah I think the fact that space is weightless might effect recoil.
Nope. Weightless or not, the two parts still have the same mass (well… the slug might not, if we manage to accelerate it to near c, but let's not go there), and mass is all that that matters.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.28 13:11:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 28/05/2011 13:18:05
Edited by: MotherMoon on 28/05/2011 13:16:40
Edited by: MotherMoon on 28/05/2011 13:11:03
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Originally by: MotherMoon
Quote:
…and instead of an explosion, there's a magnetic field that pushes the slug along the barrel. The same magnetic field will also push the barrel along the slug in the opposite direction. Unless you've made some serious errors in your design, the slug is much lighter than the barrel and shoots off… if not, the barrel will shoot off and the slug will remain largely stationary. …but either way: the same force that pushes the slug forward will also push the barrel back. Which of the two moves the most is merely a matter of mass ratios (and you can always cheat by bolting the railgun to the ground and make Mass|Barrel = Mass|Earth+ε).



Your 100% correct.

So the real question is, if yo took a rail gun, and put it in space. Like 100% in space, not tied down to ANYTHING. Would the rail gun and the buttle both move it separate directions at full speed since there is no gravity to give any of the objects weight?

When on earth the cannon of a rail gun does not recoil becuase the cannons is stuck there more than the slug is. But what about in space?

Now take that outcome, and bolt the rail gun cannon to a ship. Now the slug obviously has less "attraction" to the surface the cannon is bolted too.



So yeah I think the fact that space is weightless might effect recoil.


I'm not sure why this is so complicated to some people. Both the projectile and the gun just get equal force applied to them. That means if you hurl something out of the weapon there will be recoil. Depending on the weapon it just alters on how and where that force gets applied to, but the force is always there.

In space, because of the bigger mass the rail gun, it will accelerate less than the projectile and will end up moving at a lower velocity than the projectile. The same amount of force on the small projectile will accelerate it much more and it will end up with a much higher end velocity. It's the mass of the objects that is relevant here and mass doesn't change just because you enter a weightless environment. Weight =/= mass in physics.


right that was my point. a rail gun not tied down in space would push itself backward when fired.

rail guns on earth don't move much but I bet once they put one on a battlehsip....

It's not hard to understand I was poking peoples brains.

Quote:
Nope. Weightless or not, the two parts still have the same mass (well… the slug might not, if we manage to accelerate it to near c, but let's not go there), and mass is all that that matters.


of course weight matters wen it comes to some of the recoil. If you had a rail gun on planet with huge gravity, you would have to put more force on it to make it move. The gun wouldn't recoil much. If you put it in weightless environment the gun would start to move backward and never stop moving. The more weight the faster the recoil would stop.

right?

Also I was commenting not on the gravitys effect o the slug but the fact that if you tie something down there is less recoil.


actually now that I think about ti more a battleship is the best point.

Those giant guns can and used to be built with ZERO RECOIL. In fact the whole battleship would move backwards when the guns fired due to this. Thus they add the recoil on the turrets to give that force somewhere to go other than into the hull.

This makes me think, if the lasers didn't recoil, what would happen to the space ship?If not physical force *it's light* maybe the heat would be shot right into the hull?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.05.28 13:50:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
of course weight matters wen it comes to some of the recoil. If you had a rail gun on planet with huge gravity, you would have to put more force on it to make it move. The gun wouldn't recoil much. If you put it in weightless environment the gun would start to move backward and never stop moving. The more weight the faster the recoil would stop.

right?
What you're talking about is drag and friction, which can happen in outer space as well if you have something nearby to rub up against.
Quote:
Also I was commenting not on the gravitys effect o the slug but the fact that if you tie something down there is less recoil.
There's not less recoil — you're just coupling the gun to a larger mass, forcing the recoil to move that mass instead (the navy railgun in the video above, for instance, accelerates the earth at .00000000000000000022m/s˛ when fired). But sure, I guess that depends on how you define "recoil" — the force itself or the movement it causes.
Quote:
Those giant guns can and used to be built with ZERO RECOIL. In fact the whole battleship would move backwards when the guns fired due to this.
…for instance, I wouldn't say that a gun that causes an entire battleship to move backwards is recoilless. Quite the opposite. Razz

OverlordY
Posted - 2011.05.28 14:22:00 - [179]
 

New video showing more turrets in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASn3E6rEMsk

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.05.28 14:37:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
[
So the real question is, if yo took a rail gun, and put it in space. Like 100% in space, not tied down to ANYTHING. Would the rail gun and the slug both move in separate directions at full speed since there is no gravity to give any of the objects weight?





PLEASE PLEASE tell me you are actually a small child with an unusually good vocabulary.


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