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Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.03 12:52:00 - [271]
 

Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
This thread. Rolling Eyes

What's next? Airplanes on a treadmill? Everyone knows that the reason the Earth has an elliptical orbit is because the suns rays are pushing it further out during the summer. So of course lasers will have recoil.



The summer in which hemisphere?

Yuki Kulotsuki
Posted - 2011.06.03 17:03:00 - [272]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
This thread. Rolling Eyes

What's next? Airplanes on a treadmill? Everyone knows that the reason the Earth has an elliptical orbit is because the suns rays are pushing it further out during the summer. So of course lasers will have recoil.



The summer in which hemisphere?

Western.

Wolfric Draksmile
Posted - 2011.06.03 17:28:00 - [273]
 

In fact, CCP doe's not care with physics laws.
Ship ha assymetric propulsio, lasers have recoil and so on!
The Tengu have Reactor that burn the ship. That does not matter...
I am rally fed to see all these ridiculous things. Even new technologies should have a bit logic or it is simply ridiculous to put reactors on the ship. Whyn ot a technology that move the ship without any sign of energy use?

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.06.03 18:05:00 - [274]
 

Lasers have recoil. Big deal, so do the high grade military ones.

Even laser pointers have recoil, just its really really small.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.03 20:36:00 - [275]
 

Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
Originally by: Soden Rah
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
This thread. Rolling Eyes

What's next? Airplanes on a treadmill? Everyone knows that the reason the Earth has an elliptical orbit is because the suns rays are pushing it further out during the summer. So of course lasers will have recoil.



The summer in which hemisphere?

Western.


I am trying to work out if your joking, and this is funny, or you're serious, and I have to explain how nonsensical this is.

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.06.03 20:39:00 - [276]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
Originally by: Soden Rah
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
This thread. Rolling Eyes

What's next? Airplanes on a treadmill? Everyone knows that the reason the Earth has an elliptical orbit is because the suns rays are pushing it further out during the summer. So of course lasers will have recoil.



The summer in which hemisphere?

Western.


I am trying to work out if your joking, and this is funny, or you're serious, and I have to explain how nonsensical this is.

Of course he's serious. Western hemisphere is the only hemisphere that matters, so it's the only one where lasers would recoil.

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.06.03 21:39:00 - [277]
 

Except lasers recoil in both hemispheres, so its really a moot point.


*** Gah CCP and your post timer... so frustrating.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.03 21:41:00 - [278]
 

It was the suns rays pushing Earth into an elliptical orbit that I was talking about.
And that it apparently does so cos it pushes harder in the summer...
Still trying to work out if that was a joke.

Kaivix
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.03 22:07:00 - [279]
 

Just to note

The lasers don't have recoil it is just the Laser effect mixed with the white hot heat-sinks (said Heat-sinks being the front of the Cannons) giving the appearance of recoil.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.03 22:23:00 - [280]
 

Originally by: Kaivix
Just to note

The lasers don't have recoil it is just the Laser effect mixed with the white hot heat-sinks (said Heat-sinks being the front of the Cannons) giving the appearance of recoil.


People keep saying this... they are wrong.
I have looked VERY closely at the turrets, they definitely recoil.
Don't know how it is you're not seeing it...
but the new laser turrets in game definitely recoil.
I think it looks cool.

Ecks Orion
Proposition Thirteen
The Third Rail
Posted - 2011.06.03 22:49:00 - [281]
 

Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
Originally by: Soden Rah
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
This thread. Rolling Eyes

What's next? Airplanes on a treadmill? Everyone knows that the reason the Earth has an elliptical orbit is because the suns rays are pushing it further out during the summer. So of course lasers will have recoil.



The summer in which hemisphere?

Western.


This is one of the most brilliant one-word replies I've ever seen. Bravo.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.03 22:51:00 - [282]
 

Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
Even laser pointers have recoil, just its really really small.

Well, the problem with continuous beam lasers is that they have a rather tiny pushing force which is easily countered even by the friction forces with whatever it is they're seated on, so while the recoil force might exist, there is no visible recoil, probably not even with a microscope.
But let's run the numbers anyway Twisted Evil

The "somewhat safe" small and cheap laser pointers have an output energy of around only 5 mW (0.005 W), but there are some for sale that you can barely even call "portable" anymore with beam powers of up to 0.7 W.
Let's believe the listed specs on some of the ones being sold online at a reasonable price and say we have a 0.1 W beam coming from a 0.2 kg package, you know, for the sake of "eh, why not".

Could this device have a visible recoil if triggered while in space ? Very Happy

0.1 W beam power means you push out 0.1 Joules per second. The impulse of that beam is 3.33 * 10^-10 m*kg/s. Ouch.
Since you're pushing 0.2 kg, you're looking at a velocity variation of just barely 1.66 * 10^-9 m/s every second (or, if you prefer, an acceleration of 1.66 * 10^-9 m/s^2).
Keep this laser operational for an entire year (nevermind the batteries would not have a chance to even last a fraction of that time), and in deep space, you only reach the whooping speed of 5 centimeters per second (~2"/s) Twisted Evil

Yuki Kulotsuki
Posted - 2011.06.04 01:30:00 - [283]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah
It was the suns rays pushing Earth into an elliptical orbit that I was talking about.
And that it apparently does so cos it pushes harder in the summer...
Still trying to work out if that was a joke.
It's no joke. It's a scientific fact. Although if you want to quibble about it, it's not pushed into a true ellipse because of the radiation coming out of Jupiter's red spot. It's like the three body problem but with radiation that fluctuates unpredictably instead of predictable gravity. And because the radiation pushes while gravity pulls.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.04 13:05:00 - [284]
 

Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
Originally by: Soden Rah
It was the suns rays pushing Earth into an elliptical orbit that I was talking about.
And that it apparently does so cos it pushes harder in the summer...
Still trying to work out if that was a joke.
It's no joke. It's a scientific fact. Although if you want to quibble about it, it's not pushed into a true ellipse because of the radiation coming out of Jupiter's red spot. It's like the three body problem but with radiation that fluctuates unpredictably instead of predictable gravity. And because the radiation pushes while gravity pulls.


Heh, Ok its a joke, Very funny.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:04:00 - [285]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 15:17:03

Originally by: Soden Rah
It was the suns rays pushing Earth into an elliptical orbit that I was talking about.
And that it apparently does so cos it pushes harder in the summer...
Still trying to work out if that was a joke.

The effect is negligible even on a geologic scale (due to mass of the planet vs radiation pressure), and not sure if it's causing it to go more elliptic or actually circularize it (I would need to do some calcs before saying for sure).
But it gets more interesting for satellites orbiting Earth, the smaller they are, the more pronounced the effect : Effects of Solar Radiation Pressure on Satellite Orbits
Also, see Poynting-Robertson effect - but that only works for very small particles, something else more complicated happens with larger objects - Yarkovsky effect, and it can get even better (see YORP effect), but that's not even the entire story... see perturbation of the eccentricity vector of an orbit due to radiation pressure
Isn't physics fun ? Twisted Evil

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:17:00 - [286]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 15:13:06

Originally by: Soden Rah
It was the suns rays pushing Earth into an elliptical orbit that I was talking about.
And that it apparently does so cos it pushes harder in the summer...
Still trying to work out if that was a joke.

The effect is negligible even on a geologic scale (due to mass of the planet vs radiation pressure), and not sure if it's causing it to go more elliptic or actually circularize it (I would need to do some calcs before saying for sure).
But it gets more interesting for satellites orbiting Earth, the smaller they are, the more pronounced the effect : Effects of Solar Radiation Pressure on Satellite Orbits
Also, see Poynting-Robertson effect - but that only works for very small particles, something else more complicated happens with larger objects - Yarkovsky effect, and it can get even better (see YORP effect), but that's not even the entire story...
Isn't physics fun ? Twisted Evil




The effect of solar pressure, is significant on small light stuff with big surface area to weight ratios... the Earth has a really TINY surface area to weight ratio... thus the effect is almost totally insignificant...

Also as the orbit gets more elliptical, the closest approach gets more light pressure than the farthest point, this acts to circularise the orbit.


That was why I concluded it was a joke....

HostageTaker
Gallente
Band of Freelancers
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:22:00 - [287]
 

Yes space laayyyzzorzzz have recoil, now do us all a favour and **** off!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:24:00 - [288]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah
Also as the orbit gets more elliptical, the closest approach gets more light pressure than the farthest point, this acts to circularise the orbit.

See latest edited-in link (repeat link)
I don't know, it says
"This means the eccentricity vector will gradually increase in the direction orthogonal to the Sun direction. This is true for any orbit with a small eccentricity, the direction of the small eccentricity vector does not matter"
near the end of that section.
Not enough coffee and too little sleep to say anything for certain, but that sounds like it's going more elliptical, not more circular.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:40:00 - [289]
 

its just an optical illusion, the lasers arent recoiling if you look closer - just a beam flare which looks like recoil.
Now close this thread pls.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:42:00 - [290]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Soden Rah
Also as the orbit gets more elliptical, the closest approach gets more light pressure than the farthest point, this acts to circularise the orbit.

See latest edited-in link (repeat link)
I don't know, it says
"This means the eccentricity vector will gradually increase in the direction orthogonal to the Sun direction. This is true for any orbit with a small eccentricity, the direction of the small eccentricity vector does not matter"
near the end of that section.
Not enough coffee and too little sleep to say anything for certain, but that sounds like it's going more elliptical, not more circular.



that is for satellites going around the earth... the orbits will get more elliptical because when between the earth and the sun they get pushed towards the earth, when perpendicular to the sun/earth line and moving away from the sun they get accelerated in the direction of motion, when on the far side of the earth from the un they get pushed away from the earth. and on the way towards the sun perpendicular to the earth they get slowed... this all contributes to making their orbit more elliptical....

However the earth goes around the sun... so the acceleration from the solar pressure is always perpendicular to the earth's motion....

and as solar pressure and gravity are both inverse square laws you can quickly work out that for a constant surface area/albedo and constant mass, distance cancels out. so the proportion of the suns gravity cancelled out by the solar pressure does not vary with distance from the sun.

For the earth however this is all irrelevant, as the effect of Jupiter and Saturn dwarf any possible effect by lots of orders of magnitude.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:45:00 - [291]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
its just an optical illusion, the lasers aren't recoiling if you look closer - just a beam flare which looks like recoil.
Now close this thread pls.


Again, no they do recoil...
debunked this several times...
and if you don't like this thread, ignore it and go post in one of the spam MT/Lulz threads...

Nizran L'Crit
Caldari
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:37:00 - [292]
 

CMON PEOPLE....Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation is completely different. In EVE they're LaZ0rs, haven't you all heard? Get with the program, sheesh.

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:44:00 - [293]
 

Originally by: Nizran L'Crit
CMON PEOPLE....Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation is completely different. In EVE they're LaZ0rs, haven't you all heard? Get with the program, sheesh.

Confirming Eve lasers are powered entirely by Righteous Divine Fury. No science needed. Trying to explain it only undermines the glorious Amarrian religion.

Heretics.

Aihnman
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:43:00 - [294]
 

Ok, I just have to point this out. From a dev blog.

Quote:
I'd be amiss if I didn't at least touch on the subject of recoil. :) With the new animation system the turrets were built on, we of course were able to add recoil to nearly all the turrets. The initial thought was that laser weapons should not have recoil, but this made it quite hard to test when the turrets shifted from the "active" state into the "fire", as it was only late in the process that we could hook the firing effects up to the turrets (due to technical reasons). We needed to see the shift visually and without the effect, the recoil animation was the only option. Why not then remove it afterwards? Well, we came to like some of those recoil effects, and simply did not feel that the amount of work required to remove them outweighed our affinity for them."


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