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Happy Hippy
Posted - 2011.05.26 00:05:00 - [1]
 

If you've ever done one of those LVL 4 Guristas missions where you spend 30+ minutes jammed this is the topic/idea thread for you.

CCP! - You want to make missions realistic, so you've made it possible for NPC's to jam you, tracking/warp disrupt you, etc. This is cool and it does make it sort of similar to actual PVP combat. Except you've made some serious flaws in some places, this Guristas problem is one of them.

I'm currently doing a mission (The Assault), I've spent the last hour getting jammed by multiple battleships at the same time, multiple cruisers at the same time, or sometimes just one of each. This isn't a freak occurance, and doesn't only occur in this Guristas mission. Multiple mission runners experience this every day when running missions against the Guristas.

In the past I've tried using backup arrays, and ECCM modules. This doesn't work. In any PVP setting you're not going to have all battleships and cruisers fitted with ECM, and even if you did. They would not be able to get a sucessful jam every single time, and back up arrays and ECCM would actually work.

Please fix this ridiculous bug or mistake or whatever it is, it's realistic getting jammed a few times over the course of a mission. But being cycle jammed for potentially hours on end is a little bit ridiculous. I shouldn't have to decline missions just because they are Guristas and take a standing loss because there are so many Guristas missions.

Please support this thread everyone!

Thank you for reading! Very Happy

Batou Otogi
Posted - 2011.05.26 00:08:00 - [2]
 

This man speaks the truth, this is head wreaking and takes the fun out of running these missions

Kalessan
Posted - 2011.05.26 00:10:00 - [3]
 

Agreed, I'm considering just skipping Guristas missions again altogether because of the permajamming. Some missions are still playable (the ones that only have one or two jamming ships at a time), but others are near impossible to complete if you're not using F.O.F. missiles and drones. Counter-fitting for it doesn't even work on 90% of the ships, the jamming's just too strong.

Plz 2 fix :).

peacebee
Posted - 2011.05.26 00:13:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: peacebee on 26/05/2011 00:14:01
I support this man. I mean you made it so we didn't have to keep declining missions because they wasn't the type we wanted, now people decline a whole pirate faction because it takes to long. The assault is a mission people hate seeing come up. Please fix it.

Tom Makanen
Posted - 2011.05.26 00:15:00 - [5]
 

/signed. Occasional jamming is fine with me, but being perma jammed is ******ed.

As it stands, if you want to do them reliably, you better look at a drone boat, which cuts down on your dps, which in turn cuts down your profits.

EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.26 00:18:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: EnderCapitalG on 26/05/2011 00:17:52
Last I heard, CCP is looking into it as they also believe that jamming has become A Bad Thing.

So 50/50 on it getting fixed.

E: By jamming, I of course mean by rats and not players.

Tubares Shting
Posted - 2011.05.26 00:48:00 - [7]
 

If you just use sentry drones, ECM in missions is a non-issue.

Renaka Calmindra
Posted - 2011.05.26 01:18:00 - [8]
 

I kind of have to agree, I got to that last room, spent about 20+ minutes jammed, couldn't lock a battleship, nevermind the frigate that was scrambling me.
Great way to lose a raven, I'm only here because class is boring but yeah, was kind of lamesies

Happy Hippy
Posted - 2011.05.26 02:06:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Happy Hippy on 26/05/2011 02:38:47
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Edited by: EnderCapitalG on 26/05/2011 00:17:52
Last I heard, CCP is looking into it as they also believe that jamming has become A Bad Thing.

So 50/50 on it getting fixed.

E: By jamming, I of course mean by rats and not players.


Yeah, I've already heard they are looking into it. However, if they really are looking into it and don't have an immediate fix, they just need to turn it off until they can fix it to where it's intended to be. I agree, rat jamming is crap currently. Player's jamming is fine with me still, but even players don't jam like this.

Originally by: Tubares Shting
If you just use sentry drones, ECM in missions is a non-issue.


Sentry drones don't and never will kill as fast as any usual level 4 ship. Also, even if they did a player shouldn't have to rely on drones because they are getting jammed so much by npc's. If regular players can't do this, and it's not something regular players would have fit in PVP even, the NPC's shouldn't do it either. It's gotten ridiculous, especially where it currently is.

Originally by: Renaka Calmindra
I kind of have to agree, I got to that last room, spent about 20+ minutes jammed, couldn't lock a battleship, nevermind the frigate that was scrambling me.
Great way to lose a raven, I'm only here because class is boring but yeah, was kind of lamesies


It's **** when you have to avoid an entire factions missions because of the rats being broken in it. It's also ridiculous CCP allows this to continue, they won't turn it off until they can come up with a fix. They just leave it on, broken. I can't even avoid all of these because there is a limit on the amount of missions you can decline without taking a hit.

EDIT: I just now finished the mission. So I spent about 3 hours perma jammed, and scrambled. Even with my 5 T2 medium drones slowly killing of SOME ships I managed to spend 3 hours jammed. (I know I could have left or called in help, I just wanted to see.) Completely ridiculous, it'll take years before this is ever fixed either knowing CCP.

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.05.26 16:03:00 - [10]
 

Surported target jamming is fine but these multiple jamming missions are just very dull.

Dziobal
Posted - 2011.05.26 16:05:00 - [11]
 

This is insane , how CCP can do this ???? even tengu with almost 70 sensor str. is not enough !.
missions like guristas extrawaganza where we meet jamming battleships are simply stupid .But not only battleships fregates to . Perma jaam all the time !.when i installing t2 ECCM to my alredy good resistant (ws. ECM) ship i expect to no one in mission can JAAM me . or mayby i should equip 3 ECCM ?? but hey where is my tank then ? .Like i said before this is STUPID extremly brainless to give npc so strong jammers.

James DiGris
Posted - 2011.05.27 05:51:00 - [12]
 

ditto to all of the above.

Happy Hippy
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:29:00 - [13]
 

It just seems to me like the intelligent thing for CCP to do until they actually get a fix for this is not do a typical CCP response of "Oh, we are working on it, we don't know when of it we are ever going to get it fixed, but just hang tight.". They should just turn this off UNTIL they figure out what is wrong with it, then turn it back on or whatever. Not have thousands of people who experience this every day getting annoyed at it.

namelessclone01
Caldari
blackbox ops
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:46:00 - [14]
 

agreed and signed.
even heavily eccm'd tengu gets jammed more often than it really should.
and by "heavily eccm'd" i mean 160 points of sensor strength, which is quite ridiculous already.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:55:00 - [15]
 

A random thought came to mind...

has anyone with a supercarrier gone into a Guristas sanctum just to test if his/her ship is ewar immune against the rats? I ask only because that would be icing on the cake if it wasn't. Twisted Evil

Aessaya
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.05.28 09:58:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Aessaya on 28/05/2011 09:58:45
Originally by: ShahFluffers
A random thought came to mind...

has anyone with a supercarrier gone into a Guristas sanctum just to test if his/her ship is ewar immune against the rats? I ask only because that would be icing on the cake if it wasn't. Twisted Evil


No, they don't get jammed. However, it is known that at some point in the start of a supercap era they did get jammed by rats, but it got fix'd by CCP quite fast.

On the other note, NPC's jamming is still fixed chance, so it ignores your sensor strength altogether, this is why it's not worth fitting eccm into mission ships.

However, in my opinion, all NPC EW is OP atm. For example, when sensor dampening and tracking disrupting got hit with the nerf bat, NPCs avoided it, so it's still quite common to get 5km optimal in sansha missions with sieged dread's tracking instead of your 46 and base+30%... Or get locking range of 6km and scan res of a flea in battleship on a serpentis mission.
The funniest thing, though, is having your capacitor drained in a few seconds from 48 km away on blood raider's missions :D
And i'm not mentioning that NPCs still web you for at least 80% speed penalty.

As for The Assault... Drop in an ishtar, pewpew the triggers with your 75mm gun, collect aggro, launch drones, go afk for an hour, come back, scoop drones, deliver the mission...

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.28 11:24:00 - [17]
 

TBH I haven't found this a problem, even when ratting in Gurista space (everything from Havens/Sanctums to The Maze). Then again I tend to run missions/rat with friends (or at least alts) so even if the tank (usually me in a Proteus with Guristas) is jammed, they still get shot at by my friends.

Missions in empire get pretty boring, but flying with friends makes it bearable* and this is a massively multiplayer game.

*that was deliberate...

Erika Bronz
Gallente
The Wyld Hunt
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.05.28 12:33:00 - [18]
 

T2 FOF missiles. Problem fixed.

Happy Hippy
Posted - 2011.05.28 16:51:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Aessaya
Edited by: Aessaya on 28/05/2011 09:58:45
Originally by: ShahFluffers
A random thought came to mind...

has anyone with a supercarrier gone into a Guristas sanctum just to test if his/her ship is ewar immune against the rats? I ask only because that would be icing on the cake if it wasn't. Twisted Evil


No, they don't get jammed. However, it is known that at some point in the start of a supercap era they did get jammed by rats, but it got fix'd by CCP quite fast.

On the other note, NPC's jamming is still fixed chance, so it ignores your sensor strength altogether, this is why it's not worth fitting eccm into mission ships.

However, in my opinion, all NPC EW is OP atm. For example, when sensor dampening and tracking disrupting got hit with the nerf bat, NPCs avoided it, so it's still quite common to get 5km optimal in sansha missions with sieged dread's tracking instead of your 46 and base+30%... Or get locking range of 6km and scan res of a flea in battleship on a serpentis mission.
The funniest thing, though, is having your capacitor drained in a few seconds from 48 km away on blood raider's missions :D
And i'm not mentioning that NPCs still web you for at least 80% speed penalty.

As for The Assault... Drop in an ishtar, pewpew the triggers with your 75mm gun, collect aggro, launch drones, go afk for an hour, come back, scoop drones, deliver the mission...


You shouldn't have to go afk for an hour or two, or three. Also, not everyone has an ishtar and uber drone skills.

Originally by: Imigo Montoya
TBH I haven't found this a problem, even when ratting in Gurista space (everything from Havens/Sanctums to The Maze). Then again I tend to run missions/rat with friends (or at least alts) so even if the tank (usually me in a Proteus with Guristas) is jammed, they still get shot at by my friends.

Missions in empire get pretty boring, but flying with friends makes it bearable* and this is a massively multiplayer game.

*that was deliberate...


Yeah it is an MMO, however if people don't want to work with friends, that should be a choice that they can make. I don't like to do missions with other people, it's less ISK, and standing for me. I do however use an alt to salvage/loot for me. NPC jamming should be like player jamming, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and if you fit backup modules to counter this, it actually helps you unlike with NPC's.

Originally by: Erika Bronz
T2 FOF missiles. Problem fixed.


Yes, since everyone has missle skills and flys missle boats. Also, what about if you have an alt, or do have friends with you? Exactly.

----------

\crybabyrant - Basically, since CCP even acknowledges they have a problem with this, they need to turn it off until they have a fix. Not allow this to continue happening. They are just saying "Yeah, we know there is a problem, we will fix it when we do, however you have to just keep dealing with it until we do.". But CCP is content with collecting money, and releasing other patches to add new features without fixing ones that have been there for years. Guristas jamming issues have been around since they first started jamming, this isn't a new occurrence. Dear CCP, turn this off, or fix it. The amount of players doing missions, FAR out numbers all of the other players in the game. - /endcrybabyrant

Archbeholder
Posted - 2011.05.28 17:22:00 - [20]
 

this jamming is so fracking annoying

Happy Hippy
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:32:00 - [21]
 

Bumpity

salty Milk
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:37:00 - [22]
 

sometimes i think there is one person at ccp who likes ecm unfortunately he is the one with all the dirt on everybody

Tubares Shting
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:43:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Happy Hippy
Edited by: Happy Hippy on 26/05/2011 02:38:47
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Edited by: EnderCapitalG on 26/05/2011 00:17:52
Last I heard, CCP is looking into it as they also believe that jamming has become A Bad Thing.

So 50/50 on it getting fixed.

E: By jamming, I of course mean by rats and not players.


Yeah, I've already heard they are looking into it. However, if they really are looking into it and don't have an immediate fix, they just need to turn it off until they can fix it to where it's intended to be. I agree, rat jamming is crap currently. Player's jamming is fine with me still, but even players don't jam like this.

Originally by: Tubares Shting
If you just use sentry drones, ECM in missions is a non-issue.


Sentry drones don't and never will kill as fast as any usual level 4 ship. Also, even if they did a player shouldn't have to rely on drones because they are getting jammed so much by npc's. If regular players can't do this, and it's not something regular players would have fit in PVP even, the NPC's shouldn't do it either. It's gotten ridiculous, especially where it currently is.

Originally by: Renaka Calmindra
I kind of have to agree, I got to that last room, spent about 20+ minutes jammed, couldn't lock a battleship, nevermind the frigate that was scrambling me.
Great way to lose a raven, I'm only here because class is boring but yeah, was kind of lamesies


It's **** when you have to avoid an entire factions missions because of the rats being broken in it. It's also ridiculous CCP allows this to continue, they won't turn it off until they can come up with a fix. They just leave it on, broken. I can't even avoid all of these because there is a limit on the amount of missions you can decline without taking a hit.

EDIT: I just now finished the mission. So I spent about 3 hours perma jammed, and scrambled. Even with my 5 T2 medium drones slowly killing of SOME ships I managed to spend 3 hours jammed. (I know I could have left or called in help, I just wanted to see.) Completely ridiculous, it'll take years before this is ever fixed either knowing CCP.


I have a question for you, how fast are you killing in a Raven when you are ECM'd? In my Ishtar, I continue to kill, whether I am ECM'd or not. While you took 3 hours to finish that mission, my Ishtar would have done it in a quarter of the time. Also, my Ishtar puts out over 500 dps with T2 sentries. That is more than sufficient for most cases, especially in comparison to the 0 dps your Raven does when ECM'd.

Another thing you have to look at is why this is so. Guristas primarily rely on Caldari-based offensive systems. Caldari is the best ECM. Since Gallente are their mortal enemies (at least judging from the lore), it would make sense that a Gallente ship be better suited to killing them than a Caldari ship.

Quit all your whining and go participate in missions which your ships are designed for, instead of trying to shoehorn in a solution that doesn't fit with the game mechanics. Changing the game because you are too much of a crybaby is a stupid idea.

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.05.31 16:42:00 - [24]
 

They just need less dedicated ECM ships.

When I used to run missions I did it with three ships, Armageddon, CNR, and Orca. For jam missions I would have my Orca tank so that I could actually get some damage out.

I think all the missions need the ewar looked into. It got ridiculous after the 'fix'.

GrindAllStar
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:37:00 - [25]
 

If I remember right The Assault - Gurista was one of hardest missions on lvl4 just because of the jamming.

I barely managed to get my 1.8bil nm out of there in hull once while cursing at my monitor screen.

But you know what I think thats what made it so special and I slowly come to like the extra measurements and nerves and braincells I had to gather when that mission poped up.

Personally I think CCP should seed more of this tipe of missions that are really hard and can kill even a high end ship and altogether make them spawn less often, make them like a special event when people call in buds to help out.

Yeah I know what ya sayn thats what lvl5's are for, running in fleets and ****, but really dont you want some kind of events happening in your normal bored mission running life?

I live in 0.0 now days and my ratting system is a pipe system that sees all sort of traffic from enemy to blues and so on every day, and I must say its way better ratting/isk making than when i was living in a closed dead end pocked at the end of a long line of systems all guarded and blue. The same thing applies to missions and trust me its much better than running easy to shot easy to kill easy to collect missions.

Thrash Back
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:48:00 - [26]
 

Signed

Happy Hippy
Posted - 2011.05.31 18:15:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Tubares Shting
Originally by: Happy Hippy
Edited by: Happy Hippy on 26/05/2011 02:38:47
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Edited by: EnderCapitalG on 26/05/2011 00:17:52
Last I heard, CCP is looking into it as they also believe that jamming has become A Bad Thing.

So 50/50 on it getting fixed.

E: By jamming, I of course mean by rats and not players.


Yeah, I've already heard they are looking into it. However, if they really are looking into it and don't have an immediate fix, they just need to turn it off until they can fix it to where it's intended to be. I agree, rat jamming is crap currently. Player's jamming is fine with me still, but even players don't jam like this.

Originally by: Tubares Shting
If you just use sentry drones, ECM in missions is a non-issue.


Sentry drones don't and never will kill as fast as any usual level 4 ship. Also, even if they did a player shouldn't have to rely on drones because they are getting jammed so much by npc's. If regular players can't do this, and it's not something regular players would have fit in PVP even, the NPC's shouldn't do it either. It's gotten ridiculous, especially where it currently is.

Originally by: Renaka Calmindra
I kind of have to agree, I got to that last room, spent about 20+ minutes jammed, couldn't lock a battleship, nevermind the frigate that was scrambling me.
Great way to lose a raven, I'm only here because class is boring but yeah, was kind of lamesies


It's **** when you have to avoid an entire factions missions because of the rats being broken in it. It's also ridiculous CCP allows this to continue, they won't turn it off until they can come up with a fix. They just leave it on, broken. I can't even avoid all of these because there is a limit on the amount of missions you can decline without taking a hit.

EDIT: I just now finished the mission. So I spent about 3 hours perma jammed, and scrambled. Even with my 5 T2 medium drones slowly killing of SOME ships I managed to spend 3 hours jammed. (I know I could have left or called in help, I just wanted to see.) Completely ridiculous, it'll take years before this is ever fixed either knowing CCP.


I have a question for you, how fast are you killing in a Raven when you are ECM'd? In my Ishtar, I continue to kill, whether I am ECM'd or not. While you took 3 hours to finish that mission, my Ishtar would have done it in a quarter of the time. Also, my Ishtar puts out over 500 dps with T2 sentries. That is more than sufficient for most cases, especially in comparison to the 0 dps your Raven does when ECM'd.

Another thing you have to look at is why this is so. Guristas primarily rely on Caldari-based offensive systems. Caldari is the best ECM. Since Gallente are their mortal enemies (at least judging from the lore), it would make sense that a Gallente ship be better suited to killing them than a Caldari ship.

Quit all your whining and go participate in missions which your ships are designed for, instead of trying to shoehorn in a solution that doesn't fit with the game mechanics. Changing the game because you are too much of a crybaby is a stupid idea.


I use a Kronos, actually. I have drones in my boat, and they were deployed, slowly killing some NPC's while I sat jammed. So since all of your fail input is based on a Raven, which I don't fly, go take your fail input somewhere else.

Also, this idea does fit with the game mechanics, NPC's shouldn't be able to perma jam you for 3-4 hours straight. It's completely ridiculous how strong their jamming is, and it doesn't even matter if you fit backup arrays. They try to make missions semi-like PVP, okay, that's cool and everything. But when you have 4/7 battleships, and 5/10 cruisers jamming you at once, that's unrealistic. In PVP players don't have that many ships jamming anyone. There are usually a few designated jammers on each side. CCP needs to turn this off until they have a fix not keep saying, "We know a problem is there.".

Tubares Shting
Posted - 2011.05.31 18:31:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Happy Hippy
I use a Kronos, actually. I have drones in my boat, and they were deployed, slowly killing some NPC's while I sat jammed. So since all of your fail input is based on a Raven, which I don't fly, go take your fail input somewhere else.

Also, this idea does fit with the game mechanics, NPC's shouldn't be able to perma jam you for 3-4 hours straight. It's completely ridiculous how strong their jamming is, and it doesn't even matter if you fit backup arrays. They try to make missions semi-like PVP, okay, that's cool and everything. But when you have 4/7 battleships, and 5/10 cruisers jamming you at once, that's unrealistic. In PVP players don't have that many ships jamming anyone. There are usually a few designated jammers on each side. CCP needs to turn this off until they have a fix not keep saying, "We know a problem is there.".


The fact that you are still not using the right ship for the job is a testament to why it takes you 3-4 hours to finish a mission.

As to your last portion, most fleets I see have a large number of scorpions, falcons, and griffins in them. Hell, our normal fleet never runs with less than 20 or so scorps. Tell me again how PvP players don't use ECM.

Stop being a pansy and fly the right ship for the job at hand. Just because you spent 1-2b isk on a ship does not mean it is right for ever job.

Happy Hippy
Posted - 2011.05.31 18:50:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Tubares Shting
Originally by: Happy Hippy
I use a Kronos, actually. I have drones in my boat, and they were deployed, slowly killing some NPC's while I sat jammed. So since all of your fail input is based on a Raven, which I don't fly, go take your fail input somewhere else.

Also, this idea does fit with the game mechanics, NPC's shouldn't be able to perma jam you for 3-4 hours straight. It's completely ridiculous how strong their jamming is, and it doesn't even matter if you fit backup arrays. They try to make missions semi-like PVP, okay, that's cool and everything. But when you have 4/7 battleships, and 5/10 cruisers jamming you at once, that's unrealistic. In PVP players don't have that many ships jamming anyone. There are usually a few designated jammers on each side. CCP needs to turn this off until they have a fix not keep saying, "We know a problem is there.".


The fact that you are still not using the right ship for the job is a testament to why it takes you 3-4 hours to finish a mission.

As to your last portion, most fleets I see have a large number of scorpions, falcons, and griffins in them. Hell, our normal fleet never runs with less than 20 or so scorps. Tell me again how PvP players don't use ECM.

Stop being a pansy and fly the right ship for the job at hand. Just because you spent 1-2b isk on a ship does not mean it is right for ever job.


The Kronos as well as all other marauders were made for PVE, more specifically LVL 4 missions. If you didn't know that, you should possibly read up on it a little bit so as not to sound uninformed like you do now. Also, no one should have to train skills to use a drone boat just because CCP refuses to fix a standing problem that they have already confirmed is there. Well...not refuses, they are just releasing patches to add things to the game instead of fixing standing problems that have been around for years. The Guristas jamming problem isn't just a right now thing, it's been around for a while. Although it has gotten worse with some of the more recent patches. It doesn't matter if you fit 3 back up arrays, as soon as one of them jams you, you're jammed. If players cannot do that, an NPC should not be able to do that. Also, I don't know what ghetto fleet you are flying in, but all of the ones my main flys in don't have a large portion of those ships flying around. Most decent PVP fleets have mostly DPS boats, tacklers, sometimes a few jammers, and sometimes a few remote reps. The bottom line is, since CCP has even confirmed there is a problem there, they need to fix it. Not keep putting it off to release expansions and other things.

Tubares Shting
Posted - 2011.05.31 18:57:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Happy Hippy
Originally by: Tubares Shting
Originally by: Happy Hippy
I use a Kronos, actually. I have drones in my boat, and they were deployed, slowly killing some NPC's while I sat jammed. So since all of your fail input is based on a Raven, which I don't fly, go take your fail input somewhere else.

Also, this idea does fit with the game mechanics, NPC's shouldn't be able to perma jam you for 3-4 hours straight. It's completely ridiculous how strong their jamming is, and it doesn't even matter if you fit backup arrays. They try to make missions semi-like PVP, okay, that's cool and everything. But when you have 4/7 battleships, and 5/10 cruisers jamming you at once, that's unrealistic. In PVP players don't have that many ships jamming anyone. There are usually a few designated jammers on each side. CCP needs to turn this off until they have a fix not keep saying, "We know a problem is there.".


The fact that you are still not using the right ship for the job is a testament to why it takes you 3-4 hours to finish a mission.

As to your last portion, most fleets I see have a large number of scorpions, falcons, and griffins in them. Hell, our normal fleet never runs with less than 20 or so scorps. Tell me again how PvP players don't use ECM.

Stop being a pansy and fly the right ship for the job at hand. Just because you spent 1-2b isk on a ship does not mean it is right for ever job.


The Kronos as well as all other marauders were made for PVE, more specifically LVL 4 missions. If you didn't know that, you should possibly read up on it a little bit so as not to sound uninformed like you do now. Also, no one should have to train skills to use a drone boat just because CCP refuses to fix a standing problem that they have already confirmed is there. Well...not refuses, they are just releasing patches to add things to the game instead of fixing standing problems that have been around for years. The Guristas jamming problem isn't just a right now thing, it's been around for a while. Although it has gotten worse with some of the more recent patches. It doesn't matter if you fit 3 back up arrays, as soon as one of them jams you, you're jammed. If players cannot do that, an NPC should not be able to do that. Also, I don't know what ghetto fleet you are flying in, but all of the ones my main flys in don't have a large portion of those ships flying around. Most decent PVP fleets have mostly DPS boats, tacklers, sometimes a few jammers, and sometimes a few remote reps. The bottom line is, since CCP has even confirmed there is a problem there, they need to fix it. Not keep putting it off to release expansions and other things.


Oh, you are one of those "elite pvpers". Or a low sec pirate who doesn't actually participate in "real" pvp. Jamming is not an issue except to crybabies like yourself. My main is in the largest alliance on the server. I am pretty sure I know a thing or two about PvP.

Also, let's look at marauders. They were actually designed to be long deployment fighters. Something to send out into enemy territory for long periods of time, not for running level 4 missions. Before you attempt to make me look bad by making something up, you should perhaps learn about the game's mechanics.


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