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blankseplocked [Petition] Make entry into CQ and Incarna optional and not mandatory.
 
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Mirabi Tiane
Posted - 2011.06.05 12:56:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: Mirabi Tiane on 05/06/2011 13:03:57
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Originally by: Marlona Sky
On SiSi now there is an option to load the station environment. Unchecked it and no Captains Quarters.

Your cries were heard and CCP listened. Enjoy.


Reading Comprehension Fail.

The joke is on them and every other troll who has dropped by, because their posts bump the thread and bring us closer to 5+ pages.

It doesn't really worry me that so few have bothered to support this. There have already been more supporters than most Assembly Hall threads get, and the issues of immersion and optionality are almost universal regardless. As long as those issues remain visible at the corner of CCP's eye, there's a chance they'll take notice and spend the mere ten minutes it would probably take to implement the three options Morar Santee reiterated and/or return the classic hangar view to default and add a "Decant" button.

Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.06.05 13:32:00 - [122]
 

If they keep the hanger and add CQ then it's a better EVE than just having one or the other. I don't really understand why this wasn't on the table from the beginning. If there is a specific programming issue then I understand, but I don't think there is.

Like I have said in other threads I actually really want to use CQ a lot, I have been waiting for it for a long time and I know CQ is just the first step so it's limited. But I always just assumed that it wouldn't change the functionality or structure we have in place now.

The fact they have noticed the issue probably means they will implement the hanger. We will see anyway. If they want the game to be better and more interesting then they will do so.

My only worry really, is that CCP believe that if they don't force people into CQ then it will just end up as a dead feature because of the outcry by many people that CQ is just crap and they don't want it. If that is the case then I feel sorry that CCP has been made to think that. Because CQ will work, even if we are not made to use it all the time. It will work because it's different, new and has potential to grow. Allowing players to use the feature when they want allows EVE to continue to be played by more people and has more immersion.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.05 14:38:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Azver Deroven
I dont buy that you dont understand the argument of introducing new graphical stuff to a game versus playerbase with multiple clients / not so good computer. Its the same story as moving from expansion to expansion; When the new graphics came along, something that arguably could have been in from start (Presuming your point of view, I know its not realisticly possible), they let us keep old clients long enough that only odd bunch had computers bad enough to run the old client only. Now we got computers that have been streched to max running the new client, and adding new stuff might get them on the fritz. Therefore its better to not force them to load CQ, and give them the option not to. This allows us who want CQ to have it, but allows those who do not want CQ not have it. Who loses? Now could you please give some backing to the claim that it shouldnt be optional, and how it affects your gameplay if I dont want to use my CQ on my laptop, for example.


I don't buy that you don't understand the arguments against making CQ optional.

Foremost, change is the Law Eternal. Without it, EVE will stagnate and die. So, if you don't force CQ on people, they will keep their crappy hardware. They won't upgrade to something better, because they don't have to. That hampers the graphical development of the game significantly. After all, with CQ being optional, the entire other graphical environment can't really be substantially upgraded either (for the same reason CQ was made optional). So you're back to square one.

Now, to get back to your question as to who loses, the answer is simple: EVE as a whole loses. It will again continue to linger around the lower standards, inevitably slowing down the further development of Incarna, as you can't possibly make every future aspect of it optional.

People are mostly rather egocentrical. As evinced on this forum, they reason like: "My system won't cut it, so I want the game to stay at my low level." See, me, I'm different. Let me give you an example. When I bought Hydrophobia: Prophecy, a few weeks ago, I realized my old GTX 285 could only pull ca. 20-40 FPS. So, what did I do? I could also have said: "Poor me, I can't run your game, boo-hoo, please lower the graphical bar for me!" Instead I simply decided it was time to upgrade my hardware and bought the GTX 580. Of course, much like here, the folks with the crappy hardware, incessantly whining about it on the forum, got their way: the devs eventually caved, and lowered the system requirements. Sigh. I would have much preferred if they had just stuck to their guns, effectively forcing people to get with the program and upgrade. Would have been better for the game.

With the advent of CQ, I thought CCP had finally broken with their old ways of catering to the lowest common denominator. I applauded that. Guess I did so prematurely.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.06.05 15:48:00 - [124]
 

There is no reason it cannot be made optional and I for one, shall miss ship spinning. Razz

Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.05 15:55:00 - [125]
 

1 thing is for sure. Incarna will be pain in the a$$ for lots of us.

Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.06.05 15:56:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Azver Deroven
I dont buy that you dont understand the argument of introducing new graphical stuff to a game versus playerbase with multiple clients / not so good computer. Its the same story as moving from expansion to expansion; When the new graphics came along, something that arguably could have been in from start (Presuming your point of view, I know its not realisticly possible), they let us keep old clients long enough that only odd bunch had computers bad enough to run the old client only. Now we got computers that have been streched to max running the new client, and adding new stuff might get them on the fritz. Therefore its better to not force them to load CQ, and give them the option not to. This allows us who want CQ to have it, but allows those who do not want CQ not have it. Who loses? Now could you please give some backing to the claim that it shouldnt be optional, and how it affects your gameplay if I dont want to use my CQ on my laptop, for example.


I don't buy that you don't understand the arguments against making CQ optional.

Foremost, change is the Law Eternal. Without it, EVE will stagnate and die. So, if you don't force CQ on people, they will keep their crappy hardware. They won't upgrade to something better, because they don't have to. That hampers the graphical development of the game significantly. After all, with CQ being optional, the entire other graphical environment can't really be substantially upgraded either (for the same reason CQ was made optional). So you're back to square one.

Now, to get back to your question as to who loses, the answer is simple: EVE as a whole loses. It will again continue to linger around the lower standards, inevitably slowing down the further development of Incarna, as you can't possibly make every future aspect of it optional.

People are mostly rather egocentrical. As evinced on this forum, they reason like: "My system won't cut it, so I want the game to stay at my low level." See, me, I'm different. Let me give you an example. When I bought Hydrophobia: Prophecy, a few weeks ago, I realized my old GTX 285 could only pull ca. 20-40 FPS. So, what did I do? I could also have said: "Poor me, I can't run your game, boo-hoo, please lower the graphical bar for me!" Instead I simply decided it was time to upgrade my hardware and bought the GTX 580. Of course, much like here, the folks with the crappy hardware, incessantly whining about it on the forum, got their way: the devs eventually caved, and lowered the system requirements. Sigh. I would have much preferred if they had just stuck to their guns, effectively forcing people to get with the program and upgrade. Would have been better for the game.

With the advent of CQ, I thought CCP had finally broken with their old ways of catering to the lowest common denominator. I applauded that. Guess I did so prematurely.


The issue is not to scale back CQ graphically. The issue is that the interface is better if you keep the ship hanger + CQ. It kills two birds with 1 stone, and makes sense from a Roleplaying perspective.

Merrick Saraki
Posted - 2011.06.05 19:47:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Solo Player
Edited by: Solo Player on 25/05/2011 21:25:33
I got stuck within five minutes of testing on Duality last week and still am. Sure, I dared to hit the "leave station" button after my CQ view went dark and non-responsive, but still. If you add another layer to something already very complex, don't expect either to run as smooth as it would by itself. There will be problems.

It is a fact that many players are unhappy and skeptical of Incarna, and even more about the apparent removal of a choice to leave your pod or not. Hell, I'm pretty awed by Incarna myself and will probably not stay outside of stations any longer than I need to, yet I am totally flabberghasted by this appartent inconsideration.

There are a lot of good reasons to keep Incarna optional.
There is not a single good one not to.

Alternatively: make us see the light, CCP and respond to this with stunning wisdom.

Edit in answer to above:
Because it is not more realistic to just stand there in your clothes seconds after your ship started to dock?
Because it is not more immersive to be forced to get out of your ship/pod just to convo with an agent/drop off some small cargo/refit/hide in the station, ready to undock at the first chance to get elsewhere safely?


My thoughts exactly. Make it an option. Why would I get out of my ship and shuttle down to my quarters, and get out of the pod, and clean myself off, and get a fresh change of clothes everytime I want to dock off to drop off 1 unit of holoreels from my battleship just to undock again 5 seconds later?

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.06.06 13:03:00 - [128]
 

People not upgrading their local hardware does not hold Eve Online back from a technology standpoint. Eve could be the most graphics intensive game, but some people would like to dial it back to lower settings now and then. It's not that hard to ask for it and it's not that hard to actually do.

Making CQ mandatory HURTS eve online because more new players won't be able to play because of the insane specs needed. Tell me, how does forcing new players away from eve help it? It doesn't, that's right.

I already have plenty of friends who tried to play eve and couldn't because they had average computers, now CCP wants to RAISE the system requirements? Good luck guys, this is just one more nail in the coffin of things to eventually kill eve online if you don't make it optional.

So do yourselves a favor CCP make CQ optional or start your gradual sinking into the abyss of failed MMOs.

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.06 15:11:00 - [129]
 

Supported - forcing players to decant every dock is stupid.
I *want* to use Incarna, and I will. I just won't want to do it every time.
Plus I think it is immersion breaking to leave your pod every time, you are safer, and more ready to respond to circumstances.
It will be more immersion breaking that *inevitably* you will teleport to your pod to undock from the station, probably from anywhere in the station.

Using Incarna to force players to upgrade their system is quite odd, why does it matter to you if a player is using lower graphical settings than you? CCP certainly hasn't been aiming for the lowest common denominator for system req's, and the game looks fine as is.
Frankly, I think they'd do better to spend more time/staff on gameplay and balancing, and less on shiny things. Incarna will (hopefully) be a good game mechanic (eventually) - but for now, it's basically pointless crap.

I too, wonder if the forced-usage is simply to make it look better on some kind of stats. I will be keeping an eye out for articles stating huge usage metrics. And for a comment feature on said articles.

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.06 15:41:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Shandir
I too, wonder if the forced-usage is simply to make it look better on some kind of stats.

Recent developments in mind, I would have to say the reason for CCP wanting to force people to use CQ is as simple as:

If people are forced to look at their avatar each time they dock, all the time, there's a bigger incentive to buy into cash-shop items.

Make of that what you will.

Drake Orias
Posted - 2011.06.07 01:53:00 - [131]
 

Supported there`s no reason it should not optional ,personally i think CQ will get old fast until they implement more of incarna like face to face corp meetings ,running into your enemies in a gambling den ect ,that stuff would be cool. Walking around a cell going "YAY i haz a monacle that nobody can see but me and it only cost me 10 million isk " isnt exactly what i was hoping for but to each his own i guess

Mocam
Posted - 2011.06.07 07:17:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Mocam on 07/06/2011 07:17:13
There are functional losses from this change as well. Small ones but they are there and will trouble some of us.

Spinning a ship, I can fit guns on it and see what they look like quickly and efficiently. This makes "adapting" to the graphics changes a minor annoyance - it's a change so get new shots and memorize the new hulls/guns. Except...

Having that ship floating above and behind you, in washed out lighting, makes it kind of tricky to spot what the turret changes are. That big model sits there slowly rotating with no way to control it's spin and no way to check other angles. It looks little like the ship in space beyond general shape. So right-click "view target" on a gate is going to give me a dark looking hull with guns fit that I can't see unless I fit those guns on a ship, fly out, check it then "loading please wait" style next ship. This was not necessary when I could spin the ship in the hangar.

For a top quality scout, who can report back an arty fit or an AC fit hurricane... If that a domi is either neut/disco fit or what kind of guns... That kind of intel can make the difference between no lost friendlies or losing a few depending on both the scouts ability to report it and the FC's ability to direct the tacklers.

I aborted trying to get the screenshots after about 20 minutes which - if I had that old interface, I'd have had at least 2 races of frigates done with. Load.. load... load... load... slower than before and only because I can't see the damned stuff fit clearly in dock.

--------
Tag on the fact that most games are working damned hard at REMOVING loading messages, and masking the ones that they have... EVE is adding it to one of the most heavily used portions of the game - not just 1, walk to the end of that ramp towards the CQ and there's a second load that happens.

Faster graphics or not - more loading... I recall when I left EQ for wow. 15 minute flight during it's open beta - I flew over a gang of 20 bashing on a hill giant without a stutter. 15 minutes of scenery without 1 stinking "Loading, please wait..." that I used to get every what - 150 steps or so in EQ?!? I don't like waiting for things to load and yes, I have a "nice quality" new machine on order but I'll still get those friggn loading slowdowns.

This seems a tad backwards - forcing a loading screen like this when it's not needed for FUNCTIONAL portions of game play.

If you like "pretty" - that's cool. I'll probably wander around a bit myself - when I feel I have the time. Forcing me to load it when I'm shifting fits and the like... Not allowing me to see the ship from views like it will be seen with a "view target"... That I don't like.

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.06.08 14:35:00 - [133]
 

No nobrainer is nobrainerer

ScurpuleZZZ
Posted - 2011.06.08 16:30:00 - [134]
 

I just log on Sisi and tried incarna. The CQ looked good, but it still have lots of issues:
Terrible camera adjustment
Tons of LAGGG, you should focused on optimization!
Inflexible character movement
WASD dont work fine, you will stuck in corners easily
Use mouse to move just make things worse, you will even lose camera control

So PLZ give us an option to disable CQ, its just a waste of computer resources for me now.

To be honest, if dust514 just act like CQ, no doubt it will be an EPIC FAIL.

Manwe Todako
Minmatar
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.06.09 03:34:00 - [135]
 

Optional is best for role play. Her is why. We pilots are operating our ships from an egg of ectoplasm and are hooked up to our ships through a neural socket. Many of our station dockings are merely to unload cargo or to escape danger for short periods of time. In role play, you certainly would not be exiting your egg for such reasons. I think the captains quarters could enhance role play but only if done realistically from the perspective of the capsuleer pilot. Captains quarters is a sort of end of day/beginning of day thing, so to speak. It should be optional and in control of the pilot.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.09 04:09:00 - [136]
 

Having it optional is fine. BUT it can't be optional 'just because of preference' in GUI.
There should be things that you can do in CQ that you cannot do in the pod hanger. Interact with station people in a pub, take part in station poker games, buy vanity items for your clone. These you need to decant for.

You can choose to stay in your pod if you are just waiting out a aggro timer. For instance.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor

Posted - 2011.06.10 00:14:00 - [137]
 

Supported.

Lisandra Riraille
Gallente
Federal Defence Union

Posted - 2011.06.10 03:10:00 - [138]
 

I really like the idea of Incarna, and very much look forward to it, but I shouldn't have to decant everytime I dock just to get more ammor or some other mudane item. Supported.

Azver Deroven
Amarr
Pitch Black.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.10 19:45:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei

Foremost, change is the Law Eternal. Without it, EVE will stagnate and die. So, if you don't force CQ on people, they will keep their crappy hardware. They won't upgrade to something better, because they don't have to. That hampers the graphical development of the game significantly. After all, with CQ being optional, the entire other graphical environment can't really be substantially upgraded either (for the same reason CQ was made optional). So you're back to square one.

You sir have never even read about the spec developement of games, have you? Games develope new graphical features all the time, most of the time its in form of sequels or new titles from studios. EVE players are gamers and, as far as I've heard, never have played 'only eve'. They buy games as they come and, for most, 100+ fps isnt an requirement as your average gamer is a content tourist. They will upgrade hardware when they absolutely must to play the games that they want, in that terms eve has always been in a kind of a nice position, its been shiny enough to enjoy on more advanced hardware but you could always dial it down for your average laptop. Now lets face it, laptops these days run dualcore setups with 3-4gb of ram, and 1gb vram / shared vram for gfx card. Sure you got quadcore monsters with 2gb of vram but those are costy and most casual gamers that just want laptop to study and maybe play with wont get those. Plus they're not exactly portable in terms of weight & size. Forcing them to use CQ will make sure that those that chose profession that requires docking and undocking a lot will view it negatively. Is this what you deem good for eve?
Originally by: Ranka Mei

Now, to get back to your question as to who loses, the answer is simple: EVE as a whole loses. It will again continue to linger around the lower standards, inevitably slowing down the further development of Incarna, as you can't possibly make every future aspect of it optional.

Because more players able to play it, I see. To be honest I dare claim that if we go down to the path of requiring hardest hardware for eve to run, we lose more than not requiring it.
Originally by: Ranka Mei

People are mostly rather egocentrical. As evinced on this forum, they reason like: "My system won't cut it, so I want the game to stay at my low level." See, me, I'm different. Let me give you an example. When I bought Hydrophobia: Prophecy, a few weeks ago, I realized my old GTX 285 could only pull ca. 20-40 FPS. So, what did I do? I could also have said: "Poor me, I can't run your game, boo-hoo, please lower the graphical bar for me!" Instead I simply decided it was time to upgrade my hardware and bought the GTX 580. Of course, much like here, the folks with the crappy hardware, incessantly whining about it on the forum, got their way: the devs eventually caved, and lowered the system requirements. Sigh. I would have much preferred if they had just stuck to their guns, effectively forcing people to get with the program and upgrade. Would have been better for the game.

With the advent of CQ, I thought CCP had finally broken with their old ways of catering to the lowest common denominator. I applauded that. Guess I did so prematurely.

Basicly you're disapointed that people who do not have your fathers creditcard / your income / your low living costs / whatever it is where you're getting the money for your hardware, want devs to better optimize their game? Obviously its not away from you, and therefore you should see increase as well. Im not on the loop with Hdyrophobia but I'd imagine better running game would be your gain as well.

Oh well what do I know.

Isobel Mitar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.06.10 21:39:00 - [140]
 

Supporting the idea to load the station environment and have a separate disembark button to lead to CQ.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.06.11 23:59:00 - [141]
 

Can't imagine why there isn't an option to keep the original hangar view. I've tried Incarna on Duality and all I can say is "meh"! ugh


My original complaint still stands. What can we do "in Eve" with Incarna. Nothing, for however long it takes CCP to "add something..."

Personally, I am *not* looking forward to Incarna...

Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon

Posted - 2011.06.12 23:15:00 - [142]
 

I have voiced my oppinion elsewhere on the forums earlier, but adds my view here as well.

I fully support making CQ optional in the following way.
Chose in Esc menu if you want to go to hangar view or quarters as default when you dock. If in hangar view, you can enter CQ via click of a button and vice versa.

By no means do I want this from a PC performance perspective. I have no troubble using CQ on my PC (though I hardly ever use less then 2 accounts at the time, and would need to disable station environment on all but one if CQ isn't optional).

I want CQ optional exclusively for the immersion that has been mentioned so many times before.

First of all, you have propably all seen this video, and perhaps also this one (the getting out of pod part at 1:15 - 1:58). Now CCP have here clearly set the bar that the process of getting out of your pod is a rather uncomfortable/painfull experience...
Now, why the hell would I want to go through that process every time I dock up for 1-2 minutes to get ammo or talk to my agent (you can't talk to your agent face to face from your quarters anyways)... That can easily be 10-20 times every day...

First of all, if you're just going to do a quick stop-and-go, there is no point in getting out of your ship. And forcing your character into the CQ is nothing other then immersion breaking and unnatural.

Second, if you're on war ops and are waiting for the order from your FC to undock... Wouldn't you want to be ready in your ship, and not sitting in your quarters??? Again, very immersion breaking. It just feels plain wrong that when FC screams "UNDOCK, UNDOCK , GOGOGO!!!", first then are you going to get into the pod, get hoocked in, fill the chamber with pod goo, get the pod over to your ship and get it "plugged in"... AND THEN undock...

Third, if you absolutely have no desire to leave your pod at all, why should you be forced to.

Now... I'm not against Captains Quarters or walking in stations. In fact, I've been hyped about it ever since I started playing 4 years ago (and reading about it in E-ON magazine #006). And after spending time playing around with it on Ducie and SISI for the past weeks I know that I will be spending a lot of my station time there (I never was much into ship spinning anyways)... However, there are times when you could use CQ (like if you're gonna be spending some time docked) and it would feel natural. And there are times where you should stay in your ship.

Just getting the option to not load station environment if you don't want to use CQ is just wrong. I still want to see my ship and hangar and besides, if you have docked and then change your mind, you have to re-enable station environment again and then eighter undock and re-dock or relog. The fact that CCP have only given that option is basicaly them saying: <<We want to force you to use your quarters, regardless of how wrong it feels. Cause we've spent a lot of time and effort making it. And if you don't want to use it then FU, here's a static image that says "Loading" for you... Take care now, bye bye then>>.

So yes.... I want an option.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone

Posted - 2011.06.13 00:03:00 - [143]
 

Supported.

I have serious doubts that my laptop can handle it in its current iteration. A bug free CQ will probably run fine, but really now. When was the last time CCP released anything bug free?

Mamba Lev
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.13 15:29:00 - [144]
 

Pointless *******s, if i wanted to walk i would go outside. I want more spaceships and fittings

Inappropriate comments removed. Zymurgist

S'qarpium D'igil
Posted - 2011.06.13 20:59:00 - [145]
 

I support making the CQ optional. Let us dock into the normal hanger and then go to the CQ only if when want to!!

xian2
Posted - 2011.06.14 01:30:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Lisandra Riraille
I really like the idea of Incarna, and very much look forward to it, but I shouldn't have to decant everytime I dock just to get more ammor or some other mudane item. Supported.


My thoughts exactly.

+1 and supported!

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors

Posted - 2011.06.14 01:46:00 - [147]
 

Agreed. I'm not against Incarna or CQ, but you should be able to dock normal as before and then choose whether or not to leave your capsule and enter CQ.

Naomi Knight
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:16:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Isobel Mitar
Supporting the idea to load the station environment and have a separate disembark button to lead to CQ.

this

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2011.06.15 02:18:00 - [149]
 

Supported, immersion breaking and lore-bastardizing. Love Incarna, hate CQ.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service

Posted - 2011.06.15 05:27:00 - [150]
 

I like Incarna and looking forward to it since I heard about it (Nov 05).
The prospect of finally interacting with my corpmates in a lounge or just sitting on the sofa while logged in is exciting.
That said, because of usability AND immersion breaking issues, I don't support the mandatory-ness of what is currently known as Incarna/CaptainsQuarters.

Make it optional until you addressed those issues.


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