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Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.05.25 16:13:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 25/05/2011 16:14:39
In the last two days, I've seen 5 SC's drop on a 4 BC gate camp and another solo Nyx drop 3 times on a separate gate camp. (not my camps I rarely camp a gate) The day before I found a moron in a SC cloaking & uncloaking on a planet, trying to swap pilots.

I've seen more SC's in the last 2 days than I've seen Rifters, something is wrong with that picture. I thought these things were intended to be valuable assets used to swing the power of major battles one way or the other. Not some disposable pwn machine, that is pretty much invulnerable, specially in low sec.

CCP can we please have a decent game again, one with actual fighting involved. Instead of this constant downhill spiral of pushing blobs, ganks and capitols online?

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2011.05.25 16:20:00 - [2]
 

make it so supercarriers can only field fighter bombers... no fighters, no drones. This would place them more along the lines of a titan as an anti-capital weapon... ala the doomsday-nerf.

tralala

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.25 16:32:00 - [3]
 

in the words of CCP at fanfest: "The are supposed to be super."

Ugly Baby, nobody wants to hold.

Merrik Talorra
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.05.25 16:37:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Ris Dnalor
make it so supercarriers can only field fighter bombers... no fighters, no drones. This would place them more along the lines of a titan as an anti-capital weapon... ala the doomsday-nerf.

tralala


Titans are also extremely effective anti-battleship weapons. I didn't think those big guns would hit for any decent amount of damage against a sub-cap, but boy was I wrong.

MasterEnt
Posted - 2011.05.25 16:38:00 - [5]
 

I have to second this.

Been on deployment with the fleet on 0.0 SOV grabbing for 1 week now. In a fleet of 130, more than FIFTY of them are SCs, the other 1/4 are regular caps and the remaining are support sub-cap fleets.

Many of the sub-caps are abandoning the deployment or switching to caps themselves as it seems all we need are SCs to take care of everything from POSs to ceptors.

This has resulted in two things, allowing a fleet of only 130 pilots to take the SOV of 5 systems in less than a week. And disenfranchising the support fleet.

They definitely need some tweeking - I cant imagine any real naval force having half its fleet being supercarrier-type vessels. Something was definitely not thought out on this one.


Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.05.25 16:41:00 - [6]
 

Everyone needs an SC. This explains why the US TZ is turning into a ghost town, everyone is grinding up for their SC.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.05.25 17:00:00 - [7]
 

Just set up a trap and then get those 5 SC hotdropped and destroyed, then laugh :-)

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.05.25 17:02:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 25/05/2011 17:03:54
Originally by: MasterEnt
I have to second this.

Been on deployment with the fleet on 0.0 SOV grabbing for 1 week now. In a fleet of 130, more than FIFTY of them are SCs, the other 1/4 are regular caps and the remaining are support sub-cap fleets.

Many of the sub-caps are abandoning the deployment or switching to caps themselves as it seems all we need are SCs to take care of everything from POSs to ceptors.

This has resulted in two things, allowing a fleet of only 130 pilots to take the SOV of 5 systems in less than a week. And disenfranchising the support fleet.

They definitely need some tweeking - I cant imagine any real naval force having half its fleet being supercarrier-type vessels. Something was definitely not thought out on this one.




Yea, I don't keep up with null sec politics much, but I do often browse the KB's after big battles just to keep up on ship fitting trends. It's seems pretty clear that conventional fleets are being replaced by super cap blobs over the last year or so. Seems the only time SC's blobs aren't involved in anything big, is when 1 side is scared to use them.

I can only imagine how boring things must be getting in regard to fleet battles for non cap pilots.



Originally by: Gnulpie
Just set up a trap and then get those 5 SC hotdropped and destroyed, then laugh :-)


The problem is the SC's that are dropping are backed by an alliance with an ungodly amount of them. Meaning they are probably dropping on meaningless targets in an attempt to bait a "tarp" that they can counter trap.

insanebe
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.05.25 17:21:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: insanebe on 25/05/2011 17:25:33
Edited by: insanebe on 25/05/2011 17:21:40
super carriers need a weakness or they risk becoming the "end game ship" that carriers were a few years ago.Rolling Eyes

Yakov Pavlov
Posted - 2011.05.25 17:23:00 - [10]
 

Something is amiss. I thought the biggest game-breaking problems in 0.0 have been solved via the anomaly JB nerfs. Rolling Eyes

Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
Posted - 2011.05.25 18:15:00 - [11]
 

SCs in low sec are insane, I really would like to hear from CCP what they think about the ship in a low sec application in particular.

If I had it my way I would make SCs unable to deploy fighter bombers in low sec, just let them use other drones, similar to the way a titan cannot use its DD in lowsec only its secondary weapon systems.

A bigger fix to SCs might be them (and titans) staying in space for longer / indefinitely after logging off basically requiring them to log in a POS, this would mean that when you do manage to catch one it is actually killable, needing 20 carriers to bring one down before it disappears is just insane. I agree they need fixing for 0.0 as well but for lowsec it is getting insane, they are making carriers useless other than to rep SCs and pantheon carrier group will get punched though by FB-alpha.

TL;DR Super-caps do not seem to be designed to have a combat heavy role in LS other than staging, if so lets make SCs conform to this.

Elder Man
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.05.25 18:41:00 - [12]
 


Dear CCP:

Please let me grind my SC and the fits before you give them the Nerf Bat.Neutral

Monty D
Posted - 2011.05.25 19:20:00 - [13]
 

Supercaps are working as intended, most of the people complaining appear to fly sub-caps and this is like my 15 rifters are not killing a marauder, nerf the marauder.

They are a different aspect of the game and yes every time i deploy mine i risk (real risk not a pve risk) of losing 20+ bil and 3 bil pod. And no it was by grinding not alliance moon goo that paid for it. You really want to talk about something then gring the isk, train the skills, fly one into fleet battles and risk all that isk - nothing like it Laughing btw look at many kill boards and suppers die evey day so just because they spoil your mini gate gamp blob to kill some single ship noob Rolling Eyes
Supers are not overpowered and die easily.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.05.25 19:26:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 25/05/2011 19:41:46
Edited by: Mutnin on 25/05/2011 19:31:40

Originally by: Telvani
SCs in low sec are insane, I really would like to hear from CCP what they think about the ship in a low sec application in particular.

If I had it my way I would make SCs unable to deploy fighter bombers in low sec, just let them use other drones, similar to the way a titan cannot use its DD in lowsec only its secondary weapon systems.

A bigger fix to SCs might be them (and titans) staying in space for longer / indefinitely after logging off basically requiring them to log in a POS, this would mean that when you do manage to catch one it is actually killable, needing 20 carriers to bring one down before it disappears is just insane. I agree they need fixing for 0.0 as well but for lowsec it is getting insane, they are making carriers useless other than to rep SCs and pantheon carrier group will get punched though by FB-alpha.

TL;DR Super-caps do not seem to be designed to have a combat heavy role in LS other than staging, if so lets make SCs conform to this.


The sad thing is this was all mentioned prior to the SC buff going live on TQ but CCP went ahead with it anyway, just like usual. There were a few ganks here and there with them even then but the numbers of them were not as they are today so it was still rare.

Now that every Tom, **** & Hairy has their own SC, it's just becoming ridiculous.


Originally by: Monty D
Supercaps are working as intended, most of the people complaining appear to fly sub-caps and this is like my 15 rifters are not killing a marauder, nerf the marauder.




I dunno who flys your Rifters, but I damn sure bet if I had 15 Rifters that we would kill a Marauder.

15 Rifters on the other hand would never kill a SC, I guess for everything even Rifters, there are limits..

Originally by: Monty D

Supers are not overpowered and die easily.


To bigger super cap blobs.. Please return to go and re-read topic. Thanks!


Calfis
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.05.25 19:26:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Elder Man

Dear CCP:

Please let me grind my SC and the fits before you give them the Nerf Bat.Neutral


This. Rolling Eyes

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.05.25 19:43:00 - [16]
 

In one of the responses a dev said they are aware that supers are imbalanced... So I guess "no" to answer your question.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.05.25 19:44:00 - [17]
 

Quote:

Super Carriers.. working as intended?



Yes.


And this is the worrysome part: that a game designer thought they had to work like that.

Yakov Pavlov
Posted - 2011.05.25 19:52:00 - [18]
 

Interesting contrasting answers ... "Yes, what could the devs have been thinking?!" and "No, the devs recognize a problem exists .. or at least say that they do."

Even if they recognize a problem exists, it does not mean that the SCs are working in some unintended way.

And this is the problem with CCP, they no longer understand how their playerbase operates. Eve like most MMO's is full of players who optimize their play to the nth degree. Give the player base a tool and they'll use it to its very limit. Once that's done, CCP comes in with "that tool/feature is not working as we expected." It's not that the feature/tool doesn't do what it was intended, its that CCP can no longer project what the playerbase might do with it. This exposes the farce of CCP's "0.0 models" or "projections" ...

A ship adrift, crew members running hither and yon ... alas.

Merrik Talorra
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.05.25 19:55:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Calfis
Originally by: Elder Man

Dear CCP:

Please let me grind my SC and the fits before you give them the Nerf Bat.Neutral


This. Rolling Eyes


It's gonna be a while before I can get in one, but I would like to **** all over someone's day with a Nyx before they get whacked. Just once. I've had to deal with them, and dishing it out for a change would be satisfying.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.05.25 19:58:00 - [20]
 

This thread makes me sad about Eve's future.

Dalek Commander
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:01:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Dalek Commander on 25/05/2011 20:01:24
Lets put this is perspective.

Super Carrier Cost:
Hull - 11b
Modules - 4-8bil (sometimes more)
Implants - 2-3bil

So on average 1 super carrier is 20billion in assets. This isn't even adding in the cost of the fighters, bombers, drones, fuel and even spare ships they have on board.

Skills
The Pilot needs to spend another 2+ bill on skills, and not to mention the 9 months of training to properly fit the carrier, and deploy the bombers.

You think something that has taken that much effort should be nerfed because they are better then 99% of the the rest of the ships in Eve (except Titans)??? It's working as intended so either step up and own one of your own, or keep on posting jealous emo rage posts like these.


Yakov Pavlov
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:06:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Dalek Commander

You think something that has taken that much effort should be nerfed because they are better then 99% of the the rest of the ships in Eve (except Titans)??? It's working as intended so either step up and own one of your own, or keep on posting jealous emo rage posts like these.




Let me provide a handy edit

You think CCP should go without that many PLEX sales just to make low sec combat a bit less insanely unbalanced?! How dare you?!

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:11:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Dalek Commander
Edited by: Dalek Commander on 25/05/2011 20:01:24
Lets put this is perspective.

Super Carrier Cost:
Hull - 11b
Modules - 4-8bil (sometimes more)
Implants - 2-3bil

So on average 1 super carrier is 20billion in assets. This isn't even adding in the cost of the fighters, bombers, drones, fuel and even spare ships they have on board.

Skills
The Pilot needs to spend another 2+ bill on skills, and not to mention the 9 months of training to properly fit the carrier, and deploy the bombers.

You think something that has taken that much effort should be nerfed because they are better then 99% of the the rest of the ships in Eve (except Titans)??? It's working as intended so either step up and own one of your own, or keep on posting jealous emo rage posts like these.




The higher price is there to buy you increased performance and new abilitites. The cost is irrelevant though when a thing is overpowered and damaging to the larger gameplay and variation so enjoy it while it lasts. We have heard those same types of pointless excuses you use with every overpowered tactic and ship since the beginning of this game and they all got the nerfbat. Everyone who has played this game for a long time can see all the symptoms of an overpowered ship class and knows it is going to get nerfed sooner or later.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:15:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 25/05/2011 20:21:02

Originally by: Dalek Commander
Edited by: Dalek Commander on 25/05/2011 20:01:24
Lets put this is perspective.

Super Carrier Cost:
Hull - 11b
Modules - 4-8bil (sometimes more)
Implants - 2-3bil

So on average 1 super carrier is 20billion in assets. This isn't even adding in the cost of the fighters, bombers, drones, fuel and even spare ships they have on board.

Skills
The Pilot needs to spend another 2+ bill on skills, and not to mention the 9 months of training to properly fit the carrier, and deploy the bombers.

You think something that has taken that much effort should be nerfed because they are better then 99% of the the rest of the ships in Eve (except Titans)??? It's working as intended so either step up and own one of your own, or keep on posting jealous emo rage posts like these.




Hello MR expensive state of the art Military Attack Helicopter, meet cheap throw away stinger missile. Get the picture?

Just because you have expensive toys, does not mean they are invulnerable.. The US taught this lesson to Russia in Afghanistan years ago and now the US is relearning same lesson in the same place.

Point being, in all wars high end technology has had it's place on the battlefield, yet in all wars lower tech solutions have managed to come up with effective counters.

IE.. Just because you spend a lot and have a lot of training, it will not make you invulnerable. The problem being in EVE, it's pretty much next to impossible to use a lower tech solution against the SC's because if you don't have a SC blob to kill them they will just log off prior to it's destruction.

Meaning the the pilot either has to have unheard of "space honor" for GF's or is really freaking dumb, to lose his SC to anything but another blob of SC's especially in low sec. Thus making them invulnerable to anything other than.. "you guessed it" another SC gang.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:15:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Dalek Commander
You think something that has taken that much effort should be nerfed because they are better then 99% of the the rest of the ships in Eve (except Titans)???

The good ole "It cost a lot so it's ok if it is game breaking" argument.

WTB 100% resist BC - 500b.

It's cool right cause it cost a lot?

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:19:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
The cost is irrelevant


Like everything else in the game, cost should have diminishing returns. A Pith X-Type XL booster is still just a XL booster when all's said and done - even if it does cost a small fortune. People train 20 extra days for 2% more missile DPS - after having spent maybe 5 days for 8% more missile DPS.

Anyway.

DrDan21
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:32:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: DrDan21 on 25/05/2011 20:32:45
Edited by: DrDan21 on 25/05/2011 20:32:10
The issue is as with any ship, as time passes more and more pilots reach the point where they can fly a super carrier, thus there are more and more of them in the game. The things practically print isk so cost isn't really an issue, your main concern is really finding a bank big enough to store your money in.

So at this point you've got nothing but isk and your bored. Wat do? You go pwn people

Twisted Girl
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:37:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Twisted Girl on 25/05/2011 20:42:56
Originally by: Mutnin
Edited by: Mutnin on 25/05/2011 20:21:02

Originally by: Dalek Commander
Edited by: Dalek Commander on 25/05/2011 20:01:24
Lets put this is perspective.

Super Carrier Cost:
Hull - 11b
Modules - 4-8bil (sometimes more)
Implants - 2-3bil

So on average 1 super carrier is 20billion in assets. This isn't even adding in the cost of the fighters, bombers, drones, fuel and even spare ships they have on board.

Skills
The Pilot needs to spend another 2+ bill on skills, and not to mention the 9 months of training to properly fit the carrier, and deploy the bombers.

You think something that has taken that much effort should be nerfed because they are better then 99% of the the rest of the ships in Eve (except Titans)??? It's working as intended so either step up and own one of your own, or keep on posting jealous emo rage posts like these.




Hello MR expensive state of the art Military Attack Helicopter, meet cheap throw away stinger missile. Get the picture?

Just because you have expensive toys, does not mean they are invulnerable.. The US taught this lesson to Russia in Afghanistan years ago and now the US is relearning same lesson in the same place.

Point being, in all wars high end technology has had it's place on the battlefield, yet in all wars lower tech solutions have managed to come up with effective counters.

IE.. Just because you spend a lot and have a lot of training, it will not make you invulnerable. The problem being in EVE, it's pretty much next to impossible to use a lower tech solution against the SC's because if you don't have a SC blob to kill them they will just log off prior to it's destruction.

Meaning the the pilot either has to have unheard of "space honor" for GF's or is really freaking dumb, to lose his SC to anything but another blob of SC's especially in low sec. Thus making them invulnerable to anything other than.. "you guessed it" another SC gang.


A singel super is very easy to take down,(50 neut bs with hics and few logis is pretty low risk and efficent) think most half compitent pvp groups would agree on this. Problem in most ppl eyes is when you meet 10+ of em. Then again how can you balance something that really is just a issue when you meet 10+ of em? (its also like 200b worth of ships)

A supercarrier only does around twice the damage of a normal carrier again sub capitals(fb sux on bses and downwards)

also: UMAD?!

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:43:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Twisted Girl

A singel super is very easy to take down,(50 neut bs with hics and few logis is pretty low risk and efficent) think most half compitent pvp groups would agree on this.



Laughing holy **** that **** is hilarious

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:49:00 - [30]
 

If it's really ticking you off then spend sub 1b on some nos ships and lock the ships down.
5 guys grinding ibis's for killmails seems fair to you, but one sc grinding drakes doesnt?.



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