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LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.05.23 19:38:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank

The stargate to the system next door is a tool.


True. Since that gate leads to high sec.

Originally by: Lady Spank

Having a defence force is a tool.



But highly unprofitable to keep active in every system, all the time. Better option is to just return to high sec.

Originally by: Lady Spank

Sadly it seems crying on the forum and being horribly cowardly and incompetent is easier.


You quote me while making this comment.

Cowardly and incompetent? All I did was point out how making it harder to make the isk in 0.0 needed to get ships for PVP simply makes more people grind high sec for the ISK they need for their PVP ships.

I'm not sure how this makes me cowardly, however I assure you that I'm highly competent at grinding high sec L4s for the ISK I need to buy PVP ships.

It would be nice if I could get my ISK and minerals in 0.0, but the afk cloakers shut down entire solar system, so I just log in my high sec mission runner account and go right on making my ISK.

Oh... you are hoping I'll be stupid, and undock something expensive when non-blue cloaky are about so the cloaker can get an easy kill.. hmm.... let me think.... ummm... no thanks. I'd rather just log on my high sec L4 runner and pass the time until the cloaky leaves system. But seriously, thanks for the suggestion.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.05.23 19:54:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Lady Spank on 23/05/2011 20:00:14
Don't be so defensive m8. The running to the forum thing was obviously a generalisation.

I don't look for easy ganks and I certainly don't sit about afk cloaked up... at least not with the usual suspected intention. Quite the opposite. Whenever I want to PVE up some ISKies when the coffers get low I do so in hostile 0.0 space and have to deal not only with possible people hunting in cloaked ships but also defence forces and well, everyone in local.

The main reason people come here crying is because they expect to be able to operate in peace with zero effort with regards to defending themselves. You just proved that with your flippant responses to my suggested solutions.

There are so many unoccupied systems in 0.0 that it really isn't hard to move if a hostile decides to take residence in your chosen system. If he keeps following you, then he is 'actively afk' (hurr durr) and you can set up a camp or something to deal with him.

Cowering and being prepared to do nothing about it and expecting CCP to come and make your space magically safe is pathetic.


EDIT: And as for defending every system that's pretty naive. Are you suggesting there are times when your alliance are not capable of forming up a defence fleet? Fit a cyno on your ratting ship if you aren't prepared to leave system rather than sitting at the POS fearing someone that may or may not be there.

If your alliance is so spread out that you cannot defend your space then perhaps you do not deserve to hold so many systems. Again it is greed and laziness that is the problem, not the 'afk cloaker'.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.05.23 20:00:00 - [33]
 

AFK cloakers dont stop me from making isk in 0.0 why do you let them stop you?

Hori To
Masuat'aa Matari
Posted - 2011.05.23 20:30:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: Josefine Etrange

And anyway, what was again the problem with afk-cloaking? Fear of the dark.


The problem with afk cloaking are:

If I can't make isk/mine minerals, then how am I supposed to get ships to come fight you? With an AFK cloaky in system, it is nearly impossible to make ISK as you never know when that afk cloaky will return to his computer, pop a cov ops cyno and drop a fleet of bombers onto you and your friends.

Therefore, while appearing to be an effective means of gorilla warefare to disrupt the logistic efforts of your enemy, what this really does is force the logistics and mining to move into high sec. Great, more people in high sec. Yeah!

Oh, then you just war dec so you can still attack their farmers in high sec... great, they move to NPC corp. Oh, then you farm an army of alt toons so you can suicide gank and then meat grind the toon once sec status is too low... So they farm an army of alt high sec mission farmers so they can get isk without you knowing the toons they are farming with?

Really? This is the game you want to play?

You want to make it that much harder for others to be able to afford ships with which to come fight you?

To me, that is a problem. I think the game would be more fun if low sec and 0.0 residents were given more tools to allow them to make the isk/minerals they need for ships to fight, right there in low sec/0.0 where they live, rather than letting some guy log in, cloak up, head to work for 8 hours.. shutting down all isk making in that system as no one knows when he will return from work, pop a cov ops cyno, and bring in a strike team of bombers.


or you could not rat to make a living in eve.

or kill the strike team of bombers with a cleverly laid trap.

or awox the afk cloaker.

or disband his alliance.

or station spin.

eve is about choices. go make them.

Astroka
Posted - 2011.05.23 20:56:00 - [35]
 

This thread (including the idea itself) is new and exciting, and I can't wait to read more.

Seriously, there have been tons of threads with ideas nearly identical to yours. Posters shoot them down every time.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.05.23 23:02:00 - [36]
 

In the CCP manwrer thread there was this:

"Ehranavaar
AFK cloaking?
>> I don't know if we have internal consensus on this (haven't asked recently), and I know there's not consensus among the players (there was some lively discussion of this at Fanfest), but I'm very much of the opinion that it's a problem that players need to be given tools to solve."

So that means CCP Greyscale thinks we players do not have the tools to solve it now, and something new is needed. What do we want that new thing to be?

baltec1
Posted - 2011.05.23 23:05:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
In the CCP manwrer thread there was this:

"Ehranavaar
AFK cloaking?
>> I don't know if we have internal consensus on this (haven't asked recently), and I know there's not consensus among the players (there was some lively discussion of this at Fanfest), but I'm very much of the opinion that it's a problem that players need to be given tools to solve."

So that means CCP Greyscale thinks we players do not have the tools to solve it now, and something new is needed. What do we want that new thing to be?


Balls?

Ioci
Gallente
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2011.05.23 23:12:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: tek0n
its unbelievable how ppl in eve a ****tards

its quite an okay idea, its not the usual "cloaky whine" **** and you guys still have nothing constructive to say!!

how old are you?
your life sucks so badly that you need the instant gratification in a forum by insulting people?
too stressed as you haven't been laid lately "if ever" cuz you still live in your mums basement...uh mean "Command Centre"

get a clue


Much like the game, some people see every thread as a whine and a 10 point troll. They need to leave for a while and get thier grip on reality back but much like the game, they have an addiction and can't.

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.05.24 01:55:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: BeanBagKing on 24/05/2011 01:59:35
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Another failing idea in yet another afk-cloaking whine thread.

Grow a pair, learn to dscan, play the freakin' game instead of having it handed to you.



cloaking...

dscan....

hummm... yea, I see who doesn't understand the game here.

Personally I love this idea. I've never supported changing the cloaking device (fuel, timer, etc), but I do support a counter to the cloaking device, which has none right now. Yea, I'm a real whiner, all I want to do is be able to find cloakers and FIGHT THEM! guess that makes me the real carebear here right?

I really didn't bother to read after this post, like all other afk-cloaking threads it'll be 1% constructive and 99% trolling by both sides. I'm of the opinion that this game wasn't made to be safe, for anyone. Cloaking makes it unsafe to rat, yet completely safe to sit that way in a hostile system for days at a time, this is broken (yet it's the people that sit, perfectly safe, for days that complain about the "whiners", yea... It should be unsafe for both sides. A team effort to find, "fuel", guard, and setoff sometime like this, and the time it takes to do it, would be great. I've seen a few other ideas like this, but I like this one.

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.05.24 05:57:00 - [40]
 

I think there should be a counter to everything, but I could really care less afk cloakers... Isnt that part of the risk of going solo in low or 0.0? Don't like it move or bring a buddy...or make your self harder to prob out.

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2011.05.24 06:01:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Giselle Torture
Edited by: Giselle Torture on 23/05/2011 12:51:12
I heard some rumors about a spinoff from Project Mirage.. for those who dont know, the project that "invented" the cloaking devices.

You know it was in a bar, and the guy talking to me had a few Vodka-Quafe too much.. But..

I heard they also developed a module, that would create - over time - a graviton anomaly in a system. This annomaly then is pumped with energy until it destabilizes after a few minutes and "goes off". The visual, the guy told me was just beautyful.
The effect is, that Cloaking Devices within the solar system fail for a certain time. Ships becomme visible and scannable.
The downside is: You need quite a few pilots for such an operation. Some (Recon-) ships with the graviton field generators. You also need logistics ships to transfer energy. AND the annomaly is visible (like a cyno is), system wide, so you need some guards. With the modules activated, the field generation ships cannot move to get safe - just like a cyno.
Failing to supply enough power or destroying the graviton field ships leads to a collapse of the field without de desired effect. So its a real team effort.

As I said, the guy was drunk and I cannot say if he is somehow involved into this technology or if his fantasy exploded after being overloaded Wink

Tell me if u heard some rumors!

fly safe


hmmmm I heard something similar... except instead of decloaking ships in the system, I heard it auto-undocked every pilot in the system Twisted Evil

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.05.24 06:39:00 - [42]
 

The best solution to the "problem" of "AFK" cloakers hot-dropping black ops fleets on your sorry arse is to modify cyno mechanics so that the beacon or the drive/bridge (or both the beacon and the drive/bridge) has a spool-up associated with it.

This would nerf hot-dropping, thus allowing "AFK" cloakers to gather intel and provide a means to get enemy forces into the system with some risk involved.

Either the cloaker engages the target with a warp scrambler and lights the cyno on-grid, or lights a cyno off-grid and risks losing the target due to the spike in Local.

Either way, there is opportunity for reaction rather than simply transitioning from happily ratting one moment, lagged out the next, waking up in a station shortly after.

Having a spool-up on the cyno generator (e.g.: reduce cycle time to 10s, the cyno beacon gets lit at the end of the cycle) provides some delay during which the target can make their fight-or-flight decision. Spool up on the jump drive or bridge provides further delay allowing the fight-or-flight decision to become action, and the delay can be adjusted for black ops/capitals/supercapitals/bridges independently.

AFK Cloaker
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.05.24 06:44:00 - [43]
 


Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2011.05.24 09:01:00 - [44]
 

How do you get any sleep between the monster under your bed and the one in the closet?

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.05.24 19:18:00 - [45]
 

Why would I worry about dealing with an AFK cloaker when it is so much more profitable to just login my high sec L4 grinder until the AFK cloaker leaves?

Oh, that's right. That is why the people that want easy kills want to get rid of high sec L4s.

So, get rid of high sec L4s. Then we just find some other way to make ISK in relative safety. Then the people that want easy kills will find somethign new to whine about as to why people aren't being stupid and giving them easy kills.

AFK cloaking is a lame game mechanic that forces people to do lame things to get around it. A massive EMP pulse that takes time to generate, then disables all cloaks in system for a certain amount of time, would be a reasonible mechanism for countering a lame tactic.

The cloaky guy, if not AFK, could just bounce between safes to keep the system shut down for fear of cov ops cyno. He would just have to actually be at the computer and working to do it.


OH!!! Even better. How about a cloak jammer, like a cyno jammer that prevents anyone, friend or foe alike from using a cloak in the systm.


Selene Valkros
Posted - 2011.05.24 19:31:00 - [46]
 

An interesting idea.

I'll agree that it doesn't really work with the current mechanics as they are right now.

But what if something like the OPs idea was created in tandem with the removal of local?

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.05.24 19:31:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Hori To

or you could not rat to make a living in eve.

or kill the strike team of bombers with a cleverly laid trap.

or awox the afk cloaker.

or disband his alliance.

or station spin.

eve is about choices. go make them.


But what I can't figure out is why SOOO many people want to make it SOOOO hard to live in 0.0 that virtually everyone would chose to live in high sec.

Seriously, the QER already indicates that 80% of toons live in high sec. Why do so many oppose ideas that would move more people to high sec? Why are they so opposed to ideas that might get more people to move out of high sec.

You can't force them out of safety. If you try, they will quit the game.

You can't force them to do stupid things. If you try by making what they used to do be stupid, they will quit doing it.



When I was in faction warefare, someone with a Titan joined a friendly FW corp. We spent a weekend hot dropping ever small gang roam, every low sec ratter, every large enemy fleet...

And by the end of the weekend, word was out. No targets would undock. We couldn't get any kills because no one was willing to come out.



This is the same effect AFK cloaking has. The AFK cloaker doesn't get kills because no one undocks. He doesn't really stop them from making ISK, because they just log on their alts in high sec. All he does is shut down a system and force others to make ISK other place. Lame.


People expect to be able to make ISK relativly risk free...

RIGHT!!!!! Take away that ability and the population of EVE crashes like a rock and CCP is bankrupt.

CCP pretty quickly figured out that without a safe way to make ISK, the player base would never be anything but tiny and their profits virtually non-existant. This is why they created high sec and CONCORD. Those things are why the player base has grown to what it is.


If you want people to come out of high sec, 0.0 has to become safer, not more dangerous.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.05.24 19:33:00 - [48]
 

I do not give a crap about afk cloakers.

But what I would like to see is some type of activity indicator for ppl (think IM) so that if they go inactive for 15min or something and they are added to your contacts the online/offline indicator goes yellow?

That would be key for figuring out if anyone in corp/other channel is actually awake.

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.05.24 19:37:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 24/05/2011 21:13:44
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 24/05/2011 20:34:32
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 24/05/2011 20:33:27
Originally by: Selene Valkros
But what if something like the OPs idea was created in tandem with the removal of local?


Remove local, and no one leaves high sec.

Look at the QEN.

80% of toons live high sec. 11% null sec. 7% low and 2.5% wormhole (does not = 100% due to rounding).

Yes, yes, no stations, no upgrades, harder to move goods in and out. Wormhole has its issues... But in my opinion, one of the things keeping the population in wormholes SOOOOO low is the lack of local.

Remove local and you will see the population of 0.0 crash to near wormhole levels.


I can't figure out why so many people want even more people to choose to live in high sec.

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.05.24 19:40:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Blacksquirrel
I think there should be a counter to everything, but I could really care less afk cloakers... Isnt that part of the risk of going solo in low or 0.0? Don't like it move or bring a buddy...or make your self harder to prob out.


What do you think people in 0.0 are doing?

We are just trying to make ISK and mine minerals to buy ships to PVP in, and do that where we live. AFK cloaking forces us to make ISK/minerals in high sec, well away from where we want to PVP. How lame is that?

Bring a friend so two ships can die when the cloaky pops a cov ops cyno in your cyno jammed system and 2 dozen bombers stop bye for a chat?

Malartacha Foram
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.05.24 19:45:00 - [51]
 

I have no problem with AFK cloaking, but I think cloaking devices should drain you cap over time on a perfectly fit ship. Maybe 2-3 hours.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.05.24 20:32:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
I think there should be a counter to everything, but I could really care less afk cloakers... Isnt that part of the risk of going solo in low or 0.0? Don't like it move or bring a buddy...or make your self harder to prob out.


What do you think people in 0.0 are doing?

We are just trying to make ISK and mine minerals to buy ships to PVP in, and do that where we live. AFK cloaking forces us to make ISK/minerals in high sec, well away from where we want to PVP. How lame is that?

Bring a friend so two ships can die when the cloaky pops a cov ops cyno in your cyno jammed system and 2 dozen bombers stop bye for a chat?


No AFK cloaker has stopped me from making money in 0.0, why do you let them stop you?

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.05.24 20:39:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: baltec1

No AFK cloaker has stopped me from making money in 0.0, why do you let them stop you?


They don't stop me from making ISK. I just log in my high sec mission grinding toon.

Why do I not attempt to make ISK in 0.0 with a cloaky non-blue in system? The reward is not worth the risk. There are better options.

And CCP knows that if they take away those better options in an attempt to force us into risky activity, a large number of players will simply drop their subscriptions.


What I can't figure out is why some many people seem to want more people to choose the high sec option.

ElJo123
Accompanied By Unicorns
Posted - 2011.05.24 20:54:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: LHA Tarawa
AFK cloaking forces us to make ISK/minerals in high sec, well away from where we want to PVP.

Laughing

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.05.24 21:10:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 24/05/2011 20:34:32
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 24/05/2011 20:33:27
Originally by: Selene Valkros
But what if something like the OPs idea was created in tandem with the removal of local?


Remove local, and no one leaves high sec.

Look at the QEN.

80% of toons live high sec. 11% null sec. 7% low and 2.5% wormhole (does not = 100% due to rounding).

Yes, yes, no stations, no upgrades, harder to move goods in and out. Wormhole has its issues... But in my opinion, one of the things keeping the population in low sec SOOOOO low is the lack of local.

Remove local and you will see the population of 0.0 crash to near wormhole levels.


I can't figure out why so many people want even more people to choose to live in high sec.




"toons"




LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.05.24 21:12:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: baltec1

No AFK cloaker has stopped me from making money in 0.0, why do you let them stop you?


Here is the better, more accurate answer.

When I want to PVP, I will dictate the conditions of that PVP.

When I want to make ISK, I do so in ways that minimize others ability to dictate the conditions of that PVP.

That means, if I want to make ISK, but there is a non-blue cloaky in the system where I want to do that, then I log in my high sec mission alt and make 30-40 million ISK an hour in my mach.


I am simply not going to rat in something cheap for a pittance, undock something expensive with a potential threat in system, or do other stupid things that let others get easy kills to reflate their epeen.


POS up or dock up FTW.

Shiera Kuni
Repurposed Armaments
Posted - 2011.05.24 21:18:00 - [57]
 

Isn't risk what EVE is all about though? The whole point of lowsec/nullsec is that you have greater rewards for greater risk. There is no 'pvp on my terms' unless you're the one doing the hunting, and even then, you stand the chance of being someone else's gank. If you want to go to highsec and make ISK with no risk, that's your prerogative, however, lowsec/nullsec are exactly as they should be.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.05.24 21:33:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: baltec1

No AFK cloaker has stopped me from making money in 0.0, why do you let them stop you?


Here is the better, more accurate answer.

When I want to PVP, I will dictate the conditions of that PVP.

When I want to make ISK, I do so in ways that minimize others ability to dictate the conditions of that PVP.

That means, if I want to make ISK, but there is a non-blue cloaky in the system where I want to do that, then I log in my high sec mission alt and make 30-40 million ISK an hour in my mach.


I am simply not going to rat in something cheap for a pittance, undock something expensive with a potential threat in system, or do other stupid things that let others get easy kills to reflate their epeen.


POS up or dock up FTW.


I continue to make much more isk in 0.0 while you hide like a little girl.

Cave Lord
Posted - 2011.05.24 22:18:00 - [59]
 

I actually *like* this idea. I've seen a lot of AFK cloak threads and how to make it so cloaking is 100% useless. This idea actually encourages people to watch their EVE screen and cloak back up if they become decloaked - discouraging AFK cloaking scare tactics.

Personally, I'd modify it so that it sends out a "cloak disruption wave" and after maybe, 10 seconds, the cloakers could cloak back up again.

Kudo's to OP for suggesting an in-game solution that I feel makes decent sense. It may not be perfect, but definitely a start.

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.05.24 22:49:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: baltec1

I continue to make much more isk in 0.0 while you hide like a little girl.


I am a little girl.

You rule, and I suck.

But I am still not going to undock when there is a non-blue cloaky in system in 0.0 unless I am looking for PVP instead of looking to make ISK. That is what high sec alts are for.

People want to put a cloaky in a system to shut down mining and plexing? No problem. There is a way to work around it.

Workig around it makes the game suck for both of us, so is a lame game mechanic that I think should be fixed... but a way around it none the less.


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