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blankseplocked Can someone explain to me why this is a troll fit?
 
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Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 08:32:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Vierego on 22/05/2011 08:36:59
So I spent about an hour or so in Eve-HQ trying to come up with the best afk hauler for valuable things like t2 rigs, or components that my Mission runner(which I no longer mission run with) could use while I do industry/watch my sell/buy orders. Then I posted it on battleclinic, had it deleted and reposted it with a cleaner format and that one was locked.

The fit is as such.

[Rattlesnake, Max EHP AFK Rattlesnake Hauler.]
Energized Reactive Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Explosion Dampening Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Siege Missile Launcher II
Siege Missile Launcher II
Siege Missile Launcher II
Siege Missile Launcher II
Empty
Empty

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Garde II

That was the max 2 "bling" fit and had the following stats

232k EHP
E76,K76,E80,T68 for shields
E70,K56,E68,T68 for armor.
210 passive tank
a 5k volley,750 dps.
121 m/s
3au
12.88 align.

Vs a freighter such as an obelisk
190khp
.75 au
42.1s align time.

My stats with it (and I have poor caldari bs/shield skills)
are 190k ehp, and I just use my drones for 450 dps.

So it has the same stats as the freighter, but is a lot faster to get to your destination, is 200m cheaper, and then when I'm mining on some of my indy alts is able to defend them, or god forbid I want to mission.

As an industrialist/marketer I can have 2 t2 mods/implants/high value salvage that easily equal up to 600m and less then 600m^3.

Even once I do get one of my alts trained up for an orca, it'd still be nice to have something like this around for "oh $$$$ forgot that back in station" So I afk it while doing other stuff as it is a lot faster then an orca.

Is there another ship/ect that fits this niche...Or is it a really obscure niche that seems insane to anyone but me?


Loraine Gess
Posted - 2011.05.22 08:37:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Vierego
battleclinic




Found your problem.

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.05.22 08:57:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Vierego
Is there another ship/ect that fits this niche...Or is it a really obscure niche that seems insane to anyone but me?


Yeah, it's a niche. Also, the reason they think it's a troll fit is the dual-tanking. You could simply ditch the armor tank and use the lows to support your shield tank and come off with more EHP for your trouble:

[Rattlesnake, Max EHP AFK Rattlesnake Hauler. copy 1]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

Explosion Dampening Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I

252K EHP.

Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
Posted - 2011.05.22 08:57:00 - [4]
 

You have to be better than that when it comes to modules. I can probably make a more effective version with EFT in a few minutes. Watch and wait.

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:02:00 - [5]
 

So, my goal now is to come up with fits for every race's "main" ratting ships and give theoretical max amount you can carry value wise and be "safe" with and without rigs(as the rigs might be being used for something else)

Disclaimer, values are based off of freighter ganks, your results may vary.

[Drake]
~500m can be carried safely.
EHP 97k,9.85s align, 180m/s

w/o rigs
~365m
EHP 73k

2x Large Shield Extender II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
2x Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II

2x 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Reactive Membrane II
Energized Magnetic Membrane II

3x Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:05:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Vierego on 22/05/2011 09:12:16
Edited by: Vierego on 22/05/2011 09:11:17
Edited by: Vierego on 22/05/2011 09:06:51
Originally by: Mfume Apocal
Originally by: Vierego
Is there another ship/ect that fits this niche...Or is it a really obscure niche that seems insane to anyone but me?


Yeah, it's a niche. Also, the reason they think it's a troll fit is the dual-tanking. You could simply ditch the armor tank and use the lows to support your shield tank and come off with more EHP for your trouble:

snip


Ah, had no clue Power diags gave shield, up to this point i've been 100% armor tank (literally just got the skill to equip extender 2's yesterday).

Makes sense. Will tool around some more thenEmbarassed

However, DC2 is not a afk module, it has to be activated at each gate (I believe). If I used a DC2 on my fit i get 272kish EHP.

Also, just plugged yours into EVEhq with max 5, and even with the DC2 im getting 202 EHP, 301 passive tank.

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:19:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Vierego on 22/05/2011 09:26:03
so tried it in eft, see your results and mine read as 227k instead of 232k. However, it is still using a DC2 which I believe is an active module only.

Also, does EFT include passive regen into its EHP somehow?

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:32:00 - [8]
 

It's a troll fit for a pvpeer not because it's a real troll one, just because to kill stuff with 230+ehp he will need a lot of friends (HS).
OC he will forget in his coment the simple fact you don't want that setup for pvp but to bait enough time so Concord or your task force jumps in and gank the pesky stuff.

Yes, they will need a lot of friends with that setup if you're travelling in high sec, because the more EHP you have, the more people he must bring and more will be ganked by Concord and suddenly your cargo value becomes less interesting.
To kill some ship with 230K EHP 40% resists across the board all buffer it will take about 25 arty 10k volley BS's full t2 fit with skilled pilots.
I think 25 BS's full t2 stuff at an average price tag of 150M with riggs they better be sure you carry over 2/4 billion stuff in your cargo or they are full dumbs (loose more than they collect) or just stupid people.

If on top of that you can repair yourself for a while (cap injector MUST have), you can carry some plex with little chance to be ganked a single time, they will try, oc they will but imho is Concord who will receive the kill mails.

Millie Clode
Amarr
Insert Cool Name Here
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:41:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Vierego
afk hauler


[Rattlesnake, Max EHP AFK Rattlesnake Hauler.]
*fit with active shield resist mods*



If you're AFK, how are you going to turn that shiny tank on after each jump?

[Rattlesnake, AFK hauler]
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I

220'000 EHP, 55k base shield HP

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:41:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Swynet
It's a troll fit for a pvpeer not because it's a real troll one, just because to kill stuff with 230+ehp he will need a lot of friends (HS).
OC he will forget in his coment the simple fact you don't want that setup for pvp but to bait enough time so Concord or your task force jumps in and gank the pesky stuff.

Yes, they will need a lot of friends with that setup if you're travelling in high sec, because the more EHP you have, the more people he must bring and more will be ganked by Concord and suddenly your cargo value becomes less interesting.
To kill some ship with 230K EHP 40% resists across the board all buffer it will take about 25 arty 10k volley BS's full t2 fit with skilled pilots.
I think 25 BS's full t2 stuff at an average price tag of 150M with riggs they better be sure you carry over 2/4 billion stuff in your cargo or they are full dumbs (loose more than they collect) or just stupid people.

If on top of that you can repair yourself for a while (cap injector MUST have), you can carry some plex with little chance to be ganked a single time, they will try, oc they will but imho is Concord who will receive the kill mails.


I did a perfect alpha typhoon gank fit, and got roughly 9k a volley for 44m per ship. I was generous and assumed they could get 2 volleys off before concorded. So 18k dps.

EHP includes resist, with no resist. However with that fit I gave the weakest resist I have (kin) and have an EHP of 217k.

So 217/18=12.05. So lets say they bring 13 to be on the safe side.

13*44=572m. Generally half of your stuff is destroyed on death, so you can double your safety net for 1.1b

At least, thats how I did the math, but as we've seen I am more theorycraft then practice at this point.


Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:48:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Millie Clode
Originally by: Vierego
afk hauler


[Rattlesnake, Max EHP AFK Rattlesnake Hauler.]
*fit with active shield resist mods*



If you're AFK, how are you going to turn that shiny tank on after each jump?

[Rattlesnake, AFK hauler]
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I

220'000 EHP, 55k base shield HP



Err sorry,Like I said im an idiot with shields...which of my mods are active shield?

Also, with your fit adds 240m of value to your cargo because of navy mods (120m will on average drop).

I also got with my fit 229k hp in eft, but if I somehow put a active on there then that point is moot.

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:51:00 - [12]
 

However, because this is to be for the average mission runner, now knowing that power diags increase effective hp that makes it a lot easier to fit stuff.


you get 210k, using all 5 power diag 5's and shields.

while not 229, you don't have crazy mixed tank and are more likely trained for it.

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.22 10:02:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Swynet on 22/05/2011 10:10:52
Originally by: Vierego
Originally by: Swynet
It's a troll fit for a pvpeer not because it's a real troll one, just because to kill stuff with 230+ehp he will need a lot of friends (HS).
OC he will forget in his coment the simple fact you don't want that setup for pvp but to bait enough time so Concord or your task force jumps in and gank the pesky stuff.

Yes, they will need a lot of friends with that setup if you're travelling in high sec, because the more EHP you have, the more people he must bring and more will be ganked by Concord and suddenly your cargo value becomes less interesting.
To kill some ship with 230K EHP 40% resists across the board all buffer it will take about 25 arty 10k volley BS's full t2 fit with skilled pilots.
I think 25 BS's full t2 stuff at an average price tag of 150M with riggs they better be sure you carry over 2/4 billion stuff in your cargo or they are full dumbs (loose more than they collect) or just stupid people.

If on top of that you can repair yourself for a while (cap injector MUST have), you can carry some plex with little chance to be ganked a single time, they will try, oc they will but imho is Concord who will receive the kill mails.


I did a perfect alpha typhoon gank fit, and got roughly 9k a volley for 44m per ship. I was generous and assumed they could get 2 volleys off before concorded. So 18k dps.

EHP includes resist, with no resist. However with that fit I gave the weakest resist I have (kin) and have an EHP of 217k.

So 217/18=12.05. So lets say they bring 13 to be on the safe side.

13*44=572m. Generally half of your stuff is destroyed on death, so you can double your safety net for 1.1b

At least, thats how I did the math, but as we've seen I am more theorycraft then practice at this point.




When you want to gank stuff you don't take risk of "maybe", you make sure the [stuff] can't survive 2 volleys or at worst 3rd volley with half gank ships already Konkorden.

Let's say you carry for 10B plex, I take 25 arty Maels and I'm pretty sure your setup will not survive after the second volley. But has I said, there are a lot of dumbs ganking just for gank.
Take the example of the 30B pve setup blowned up a little while ago and I'm sure the setup was very far from 235K EHP for about the same % resists, they took over 40 torp ravens to do the job.
For about 6 Bilions (don't remember the exact nbrs) stuff dropped once you take out all the investment there's still interesting isk to spare.

Gank your setup with 10 arty maels with 70+resists the gankers club is taking a lot of risk for peanuts. Also an Arty Mael for gank with rigs is closer of 150M market prices unless they prod their own stuff.

Edit: Market price for the Maelstorm in Placid/Verge Vendor and Essence is about 125M best price, add all the guns+riggs+dps mods+ammo you're already about 175M p/setup, so the target better have valuable stuff (+5B) or it's not interesting imho.

Millie Clode
Amarr
Insert Cool Name Here
Posted - 2011.05.22 10:16:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Vierego
Err sorry,Like I said im an idiot with shields...which of my mods are active shield?


Anything that you have to push a button to activate, so your shield resist mods and the damage control that someone else put on their fit above.

Those will switch off when you jump through a gate, so effectively pointless if you put yourself on autopilot and go AFK.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.05.22 10:16:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Aamrr on 22/05/2011 10:35:27
It's a troll fit because you can do it better with a T1 ship that only takes one battleship to train instead of two.

Originally by: Cheaper!

[Abaddon, 229k EHP]

8x [Empty High slot]

Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
3x Large Shield Extender II

3x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
4x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

3x Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Edit: Oddly enough, here's a circumstance where using an explosion dampening amplifier might be justified over a magnetic, because you can pretty much assume they're going to be shooting Fusion at you. Using your strong shield resist to discourage them from shooting your armor's weak resist is actually somewhat beneficial, even if it technically gives you "lower" EHP.

...but you should really just contract it to Red Frog or use a public courier contract. Seriously.

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 10:44:00 - [16]
 

Swyn, I was bringing up typhoons for cost, not maels because of the cost reasons.

As for using boosters/ect i've fiddled around with it, but even with a 1500dps tank(active or passive) thats useless if they alpha you in 1 volley, or at best negates roughly 1.5 volleys from a typhoon fleet as 9k volley at 44m is more cost effective them 150m at 12k a volley.

However, most cost effective thing i've been able to create, although requiring a LOT of players to be effective is a rupture fit
Hull after insurance 1.8
6 gyros .12
7 720m I, .78m

total 2.7m
can be flown with relatively low skills.

2500 volley.

get 15 griefers, and for 40 m you can go insta pop most mackinaws.

Yeah, totally unreasonable, but now we are just theorycrafting bs.

imagine, if you could get 100 pilots! For 270m you could insta gank a freighter. Then again, that is a lot of ways to split that piece of pie.

Or, for .5m you can get some 1000 volley thrashers..... but now we are getting ridiculous XD

For the cost of

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 10:46:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Millie Clode
Originally by: Vierego
Err sorry,Like I said im an idiot with shields...which of my mods are active shield?


Anything that you have to push a button to activate, so your shield resist mods and the damage control that someone else put on their fit above.

Those will switch off when you jump through a gate, so effectively pointless if you put yourself on autopilot and go AFK.


I dont think any of my shield mods use active, I think the other guys did.

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 10:50:00 - [18]
 

It is late and my typing is worse then usual, and ask anyone that has read me before. That is saying something.

Off to bed.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.22 15:15:00 - [19]
 

I had to lol at this as i often get accused of "trolling" fits that are serious. I made the same sort of fit for a scorpion for the same purpose and it worked like a charm. So no you are not insane by a long shot. But do not post anything but a meta fit on BC or you will be flamed, and if you post a meta fit you be flamed for posting an already posted fit.

Gaius Clabbacus
Posted - 2011.05.22 15:45:00 - [20]
 

Armor tank (abaddon) can be increased with slave set, but the trimarks make it horribly slow. Orca has the benefit of the concealed corporate hangar.

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.05.22 17:01:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Vierego
However, DC2 is not a afk module, it has to be activated at each gate (I believe). If I used a DC2 on my fit i get 272kish EHP.

Also, just plugged yours into EVEhq with max 5, and even with the DC2 im getting 202 EHP, 301 passive tank.


Yeah, I forgot about that, here have a blowjob smiley for my mistake Surprised

new fgft Athonille
Posted - 2011.05.22 18:12:00 - [22]
 

the way you afk haul expensive things is to have courier contracts

stop wasting good ships on this

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.22 19:00:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
Edited by: Aamrr on 22/05/2011 10:35:27
It's a troll fit because you can do it better with a T1 ship that only takes one battleship to train instead of two.

Originally by: Cheaper!

[Abaddon, 229k EHP]

8x [Empty High slot]

Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
3x Large Shield Extender II

3x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
4x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

3x Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Edit: Oddly enough, here's a circumstance where using an explosion dampening amplifier might be justified over a magnetic, because you can pretty much assume they're going to be shooting Fusion at you. Using your strong shield resist to discourage them from shooting your armor's weak resist is actually somewhat beneficial, even if it technically gives you "lower" EHP.

...but you should really just contract it to Red Frog or use a public courier contract. Seriously.



Great fit! No seriously, if I piloted Am ships I would use that, my original goal was to do it for common mission running ships. I just started with a rattlesnake because that is what I have.

As for the contract, that requires waiting/paying which cuts into profits. I have a spare account I can go use to pick stuff up, why not do it.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.05.22 21:49:00 - [24]
 

Don't go afk when your hauling things valuable and small enough to fit into a BS:

[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.23 02:33:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Headerman
Don't go afk when your hauling things valuable and small enough to fit into a BS:

[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I




Or, you can and be safer then you would in a freighter.

Move 3 plexes via freighter with 190k health.

Or move 3 plexes with 220k health (looking at that sexy amarr fit up there).

Hmm, choices.

Siini
Posted - 2011.05.23 04:11:00 - [26]
 

Why in gods name would you feel the need to undock with plex's in your cargohold. Just no

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.23 04:47:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Siini
Why in gods name would you feel the need to undock with plex's in your cargohold. Just no


Plexes were just an example.

More like Inventing a Large trimark armor rig 2. 1 of those is worth a lot of $$$. Gotta get it to its location somehow.

NoNah
Posted - 2011.05.23 05:42:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Siini
Why in gods name would you feel the need to undock with plex's in your cargohold. Just no


Why would you not? How does plexes differ from any other tradegoods in the game?

Jack Mayhem
Posted - 2011.05.23 09:09:00 - [29]
 

Invest time and train for orca. Align time = 12 sec with AB/MWD trick. Unscannable corp hangars.

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.05.23 09:17:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Jack Mayhem
Invest time and train for orca. Align time = 12 sec with AB/MWD trick. Unscannable corp hangars.


Said I currently have an alt training an orca, but even then if I have only 500m in cargo still going to use this. As generally I afk travel when ever possible.


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