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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2011.05.25 02:52:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Phobos Kashada
My whole idea of EVE just transformed radically after reading the OPs post. Are these things actually going to happen?! Holy crap!



OP like many others who post in GD dont have the slightest clue on what is going on, they see something on a test server then they post all over the forums about it making wild accusations, and assumptions.


CCP has said however, that incarna would, bring to game lots of new things. THEY said they would INVESTIGATE the idea of using microtransactions for VANITY items only within Incarna, this could be shirts, pants with hearts on the arse, banana hammocks, g-strings, NEON signs for in station stores.

CCP has NOT directly said what vanity items would be.

BUT ITS ****EN VANITY ITEMS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY THEM! If people want to spend $100 bucks to get neon hot pants with their alliance logo on them. FINE let them do it, that 100 bucks will go paying for more devs, gms and get my game's backlog of changes faster.


Aeronwen Carys
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.25 02:53:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Aeronwen Carys on 25/05/2011 02:55:14

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 24/05/2011 14:25:09
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 24/05/2011 14:23:29
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
The CSM does not speak for everyone, and should not be presented as if they represent even a large portion of the player base.


This is not a democracy. This is not the USA. This is EVE Online, with a player representative council elected by those few players who could be bothered to click a button on a web site.

The CSM is the voice of the playerbase in CCP's development and supervisory process. They have stakeholder status in the SCRUM methodology. They represent us all, regardless of whether or how you voted.

Next time, make the effort to click a few buttons on the website and vote for a candidate who better reflects your interests.



Rampant Idiocy from Mr Kidd cut for the sake of my sanity



Just a few pointers, first you need to stop confusing what a Goon is in the game and what that same person is IRL, because you are making yourself look very stupid.

Secondly you waffle on about how

Originally by: Mr Kidd
I'm not exactly seeing a large upwelling of support to MT. On the contrary, I see a large opposition to it


You are referring to the what? The 7% of the active player base that roam the forums? Yeah, that's a LOT of opposition there......Rolling Eyes

What next? Oh yeah, some more whining about the Goons and how they are somehow twisting EVE for their own benefit with regard MT. And then we have some more whining, and then this nugget of stupidity

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Ultimately, it only advantages those with RL money who are able to trivially spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on a game and large alliances that control moongoo, T2 BPOs, etc.


To which I can only say "DOH". It would of course benefit CCP giving them more money to spend on expansions and new content and then what happens? Oh yeah, the rest of us benefit, funny how that works isn't it?

That's followed by some more whining (wow you really do a lot of that don't you?) and then we hit another chunk of dumb

Originally by: Mr Kidd
So, with that in mind, they ought not lay the ground work for what I have no doubt will eventually become a means of increasing CCP's revenue at the expense of those who don't want to pay more to play in much the same way as the WoW expansions, while not compulsory, are pretty much required in order to maintain competitiveness.


It's already been made clear by our elected CSM rep up there, that the players wishes for MT to remain as "fluff only" are being represented. Perhaps if more of the player base cared to vote or stand for the CSM elections, or cared to come to the forums and make themselves heard on this matter, CCP might have to permanently shelve ANY future plans to make micro-transactions anything other than the fluff they are working on now.

As things stand right now, CCP have made no statements or suggestions about micro-transactions being applied to anything that could give one player a strategic advantage over any other. So all your posturing, assumption making and pointless comments serve only to make you look uneducated, slightly mental and most importantly completely out of touch.


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.25 03:11:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/05/2011 04:27:17
Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/05/2011 03:11:23
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: Phobos Kashada
My whole idea of EVE just transformed radically after reading the OPs post. Are these things actually going to happen?! Holy crap!



OP like many others who post in GD dont have the slightest clue on what is going on, they see something on a test server then they post all over the forums about it making wild accusations, and assumptions.






what assumptions did I make make in the OP that would lead to your rant? The only assumption I have made was it would work like normal micro transactions. play 1$ get one shirt. This directly contradicts the player run economy of eve. As it makes the profit margins of said items nullSince you can buy anything in the MT store for isk.


Let me put it like this.
Right now plex can be bought with real money or isk.
Right now Isk can be bought with real money or isk*aka trading, missioning*

Thus plex might as well be isk. It fluctuates in price but basically, it's something you can convert your in game money into. Therefore you can buy anything in the micro-transaction store for isk. So it's a store, in game, that you buy things spending isk, for items that are spawned into the game world.

It's no better than introducing a normal *as in for isk* NPC shop. CCP advertises their game as having almost no NPC vendors AT ALL. It's part of what runs the economy. If you could just buy a rifter from the magic NPC store for 300,000k the price would never fall or raise on the player market. With PI ccp even tried to eliminate as many npc items left on the market. If I remember correctly they said something along the lines of, eve is not a place for NPC shops.

So as long as they go the standard Microtransaction model there will never be player run shops once incrana comes out because the prices for EVERYTHING will be fixed, and easier to buy from the item shop. why buy something at a player run shop when it's cheaper in the item mall, and you can pay isk for it?

I'm not against Micro Transactions. I'm against introduction an NPC market into a game praised for it's player run economy.It would be like introducing a new ship into the game that you can just buy for isk from NPCs. It never has be created by a player. So my main point was the playerbase should get to see what they planning with it asap so we don't HAVE to make these wild assumptions, and by wild I mean, the INDUSTRY STANDARD of, $ gives thing.

yes yes most players that play eve don't think it owuld be any different with a npc economy. They think, oh I just buy some stuff from the market and it's magic. I don't know how it gets there, it just does! if I mine the minerals, they are free! ect ect. I really hope the CSM brought this up with CCP. Sad

Aeronwen Carys
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.25 03:36:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/05/2011 03:11:23
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: Phobos Kashada
My whole idea of EVE just transformed radically after reading the OPs post. Are these things actually going to happen?! Holy crap!



OP like many others who post in GD dont have the slightest clue on what is going on, they see something on a test server then they post all over the forums about it making wild accusations, and assumptions.






Lots of stuff with too many spaces between it. (sorry mom but you need to stop hitting the return key so much)


Just some pointers.
You say that MT contradicts the player run economy of EVE, no it doesn't. It would only do so if NPC shops were selling items that were ALSO producible by players so unless players are given the ability to produce the items sold in the stores there is ZERO conflict there. This is precisely why NPC's no longer build or sell shuttles.

Also there is no hint at all that CCP intends to go down what you call the "industry standard" route for MT, not that there seems to be a defined standard as such, as I have seen dozens of different methods of implementing such a system. Perhaps you need to revisit your original concern and take a fresh look at it, hopefully you will realise that what you are worrying about with regards to the implementation of MT is all in your head.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.25 04:20:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/05/2011 04:28:13
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys

Just some pointers.
You say that MT contradicts the player run economy of EVE, no it doesn't. It would only do so if NPC shops were selling items that were ALSO producible by players so unless players are given the ability to produce the items sold in the stores there is ZERO conflict there. This is precisely why NPC's no longer build or sell shuttles.



lol yeah that post was a mess. anyways.

Well if you read the op I'm more just worried about not being shown what they have in mind until it went live. Which was addressed, by a dev no less. And your right I'm worried over nothing, as in the lack of anything shown, no future plan at fanfest ect. I was just explaining my concern. On that note. Your saying that NPC shops do not contradict the player run economy of EVE?

So if say... they removed all ammo bps from the game and made them NPC sold only, this would not contradict a player run economy? Neutral

lobdab
Posted - 2011.05.25 04:25:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
If they have the software ready, they must have a plan on paper.



lulz.
Laughing

Axon Atom
Posted - 2011.05.25 04:29:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Edited by: Aeronwen Carys on 25/05/2011 02:55:14

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 24/05/2011 14:25:09
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 24/05/2011 14:23:29
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
The CSM does not speak for everyone, and should not be presented as if they represent even a large portion of the player base.


This is not a democracy. This is not the USA. This is EVE Online, with a player representative council elected by those few players who could be bothered to click a button on a web site.

The CSM is the voice of the playerbase in CCP's development and supervisory process. They have stakeholder status in the SCRUM methodology. They represent us all, regardless of whether or how you voted.

Next time, make the effort to click a few buttons on the website and vote for a candidate who better reflects your interests.



Rampant Idiocy from Mr Kidd cut for the sake of my sanity



Just a few pointers, first you need to stop confusing what a Goon is in the game and what that same person is IRL, because you are making yourself look very stupid.

Secondly you waffle on about how

Originally by: Mr Kidd
I'm not exactly seeing a large upwelling of support to MT. On the contrary, I see a large opposition to it


You are referring to the what? The 7% of the active player base that roam the forums? Yeah, that's a LOT of opposition there......Rolling Eyes

What next? Oh yeah, some more whining about the Goons and how they are somehow twisting EVE for their own benefit with regard MT. And then we have some more whining, and then this nugget of stupidity

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Ultimately, it only advantages those with RL money who are able to trivially spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on a game and large alliances that control moongoo, T2 BPOs, etc.


To which I can only say "DOH". It would of course benefit CCP giving them more money to spend on expansions and new content and then what happens? Oh yeah, the rest of us benefit, funny how that works isn't it?

That's followed by some more whining (wow you really do a lot of that don't you?) and then we hit another chunk of dumb

Originally by: Mr Kidd
So, with that in mind, they ought not lay the ground work for what I have no doubt will eventually become a means of increasing CCP's revenue at the expense of those who don't want to pay more to play in much the same way as the WoW expansions, while not compulsory, are pretty much required in order to maintain competitiveness.


It's already been made clear by our elected CSM rep up there, that the players wishes for MT to remain as "fluff only" are being represented. Perhaps if more of the player base cared to vote or stand for the CSM elections, or cared to come to the forums and make themselves heard on this matter, CCP might have to permanently shelve ANY future plans to make micro-transactions anything other than the fluff they are working on now.

As things stand right now, CCP have made no statements or suggestions about micro-transactions being applied to anything that could give one player a strategic advantage over any other. So all your posturing, assumption making and pointless comments serve only to make you look uneducated, slightly mental and most importantly completely out of touch.




i just want to point out the irony of how many times you pressed enter in this post. :P

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.05.25 04:39:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
So as long as they go the standard Microtransaction model there will never be player run shops once incrana comes out because the prices for EVERYTHING will be fixed, and easier to buy from the item shop. why buy something at a player run shop when it's cheaper in the item mall, and you can pay isk for it?


I think that's a misconception. What I think is the idea that eventually players will be able to make clothes and sell them but that there will be special clothes that won´t be available in the game but only in the microtransaction shop. A bit like the tournament ship awards.

Aeronwen Carys
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.25 11:19:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/05/2011 04:28:13
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys

Just some pointers.
You say that MT contradicts the player run economy of EVE, no it doesn't. It would only do so if NPC shops were selling items that were ALSO producible by players so unless players are given the ability to produce the items sold in the stores there is ZERO conflict there. This is precisely why NPC's no longer build or sell shuttles.



lol yeah that post was a mess. anyways.

Well if you read the op I'm more just worried about not being shown what they have in mind until it went live. Which was addressed, by a dev no less. And your right I'm worried over nothing, as in the lack of anything shown, no future plan at fanfest ect. I was just explaining my concern. On that note. Your saying that NPC shops do not contradict the player run economy of EVE?

So if say... they removed all ammo bps from the game and made them NPC sold only, this would not contradict a player run economy? Neutral



No, that has nothing to do with what you or I were talking about mom. That would clearly interfere with a player driven economy, but since CCP has made it quite clear that any item that could give one player a tactical advantage over another should only be player created, the idea that they would suddenly make ammo only producible by NPC's is an illogical reversal.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.05.25 11:53:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Aeronwen Carys

Just a few pointers, first you need to stop confusing what a Goon is in the game and what that same person is IRL, because you are making yourself look very stupid.


You're right. How could I ever begin to think that a group of players would in anyway want to influence the game for their own benefit. This just never happens. No player ever hacked the game to acquire unfair advantage over their fellow players. No player ever participated in cheating with CCP staff involved. Certainly, multi-game group cultures such as the Goons, would never have a desire to influence games at the playerbase's expense. You've got me there.Rolling Eyes

Quote:

You are referring to the what? The 7% of the active player base that roam the forums? Yeah, that's a LOT of opposition there......Rolling Eyes



Yes, another "got me" moment. A small population of individuals can never be representative of the larger population. Statisticians are just snake oil salesmen practicing their hoodoo voodoo. What was I thinking?

Quote:

To which I can only say "DOH". It would of course benefit CCP giving them more money to spend on expansions and new content and then what happens? Oh yeah, the rest of us benefit, funny how that works isn't it?



The rest of 'us'? Well that depends. Are MT stores going to be cosmetic only or something more game changing? That's the problem with CCP. What they describe today often turns out to be something completely different tomorrow. Look, I apologize if I didn't present in my post a complete history of CCP failures, ignored customer feedback, and features that were presented in one fashion to the playerbase and then magically turned into something else when implemented. But, I'm assuming since you're posting in this thread that you have some context which obviously you're lacking. Otherwise, you wouldn't be picking apart my posts like a typical CCP groupie.

Quote:

It's already been made clear by our elected CSM rep up there, that the players wishes for MT to remain as "fluff only" are being represented. Perhaps if more of the player base cared to vote or stand for the CSM elections, or cared to come to the forums and make themselves heard on this matter, CCP might have to permanently shelve ANY future plans to make micro-transactions anything other than the fluff they are working on now.



Perhaps you missed it in my first post and that you have no idea what the CSM is and is not. The CSM has no authority over CCP. They may be "representatives" but, it is a hollow title for that dog doesn't hunt. And again, you completely ignore history replete with examples of CSM representations falling on deaf ears at CCP.

Quote:

As things stand right now, CCP have made no statements or suggestions about micro-transactions being applied to anything that could give one player a strategic advantage over any other. So all your posturing, assumption making and pointless comments serve only to make you look uneducated, slightly mental and most importantly completely out of touch.



God, you must be ******ed. It's already been mentioned in this thread. Sisi, MT, Plex, remaps. And yet you still want to continue that CCP has no intention? Obviously they do. Adding a benign MT store is what's known as acclimating your customers to the idea, laying the ground work, sweetening the medicine, boiling the frog. You're a naive ****er, aren't you?

Aeronwen Carys
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.25 12:48:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Lots of idiocy


At what point did I deny any of CCP's past wrong doings? Congratulations not only on totally missing my point, but for still failing to understand why what you said makes you appear stupid. If you are so mired in the past, why are you still here?

As for my comment about the percentage of the player base represented on the forums, i don't see how my comment was in any way wrong. To say they are representative of the player base as a whole is utterly idiotic and had you either been around long enough, or had a modicum of sense, this would have been apparent.

As for what the MT store will or will not be, speculation is also foolish, though understandable. I for one do not want to see anything but fluff items for sale and I have done my best to make my own singular voice heard on that matter. However, what you and others are doing is assuming that CCP are going to do their worst and you are then launching off into massive bouts of verbal diarrhea, stating opinion and hearsay as fact and then citing half decade old errors as some sort of twisted validation.

As for my knowledge of what the CSM is and is not, I am completely aware of its function and its "powers", so your assumption on that front just makes you even less competent to hold a debate on the matter. Everyone is well aware that the CSM is first and foremost a marketing ploy, something to keep the player base happy. There are however growing indications that the CSM is not entirely "hollow" and that the dog does indeed get to hunt.

With regards your last, poorly written diatribe, having re-read what I wrote I must confess it was incorrectly worded. What I was trying to say was that so far CCP have not made any positive statements regarding the implementation of anything but fluff items to the new "stores".

In fact, if I can find it, there have been some Devs stating that they personally DO NOT want anything other than fluff items to be sold, for fear of it breaking the game. Also you mentioned remaps, which unless I am mistaken, has been dropped completely after the players and some Devs voiced serious concerns over it.

You can sit there in your little corner screaming at the world to listen to you, but until you can learn to make a serious post without calling people ******s or ****ers, then I highly doubt that anyone is going to take any of your complaints seriously.


Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.25 12:58:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd

You're right. How could I ever begin to think that a group of players would in anyway want to influence the game for their own benefit. This just never happens. No player ever hacked the game to acquire unfair advantage over their fellow players. No player ever participated in cheating with CCP staff involved. Certainly, multi-game group cultures such as the Goons, would never have a desire to influence games at the playerbase's expense. You've got me there.Rolling Eyes


Give it up dude. I like this game and want it to be a fun place to play spaceships. There are representatives from a wide variety of gameplay styles on the CSM this year, from Goons in space to PL in space to lowsec guys to whatever. Also CSM alternates have access to all the same comm channels and access to the summit information. You're not going to find anybody claiming that any of us are just there advocating for our particular group, because it isn't happening. This is the last I'll comment on it though since it's a dumb distraction about dumb stuff.

Quote:

Perhaps you missed it in my first post and that you have no idea what the CSM is and is not. The CSM has no authority over CCP. They may be "representatives" but, it is a hollow title for that dog doesn't hunt. And again, you completely ignore history replete with examples of CSM representations falling on deaf ears at CCP.


I can't speak for previous CSM's but this is absolutely not true this year. I don't know if CSM 5 helped them have a 'aha!' moment, but CCP is taking this very seriously and is involving us in a huge way.

Quote:

God, you must be ******ed. It's already been mentioned in this thread. Sisi, MT, Plex, remaps. And yet you still want to continue that CCP has no intention? Obviously they do. Adding a benign MT store is what's known as acclimating your customers to the idea, laying the ground work, sweetening the medicine, boiling the frog. You're a naive ****er, aren't you?


Your concerns are unfounded. We had a long conversation with CCP about where we are comfortable with MT going and we're in agreement on where things stand. This is why there is a CSM fyi. We're there to communicate things that they might not see from their angle and help them find a path that will work. We were given the chance to help set an acceptable path for MT (no gold ammo for scorpions!) and CCP is on the same page as us. If your concern is that this will be a slippery slope, then be assured that we are going to be monitoring this closely to make sure it doesn't deviate. If it does deviate then this will become a different conversation and we'll work with CCP to ensure things don't jump the rails.

Also if you just have a moral issue with spending rl bux for hot pink leggings, get over it.

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.05.25 13:05:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: MotherMoon
So as long as they go the standard Microtransaction model there will never be player run shops once incrana comes out because the prices for EVERYTHING will be fixed, and easier to buy from the item shop. why buy something at a player run shop when it's cheaper in the item mall, and you can pay isk for it?


I think that's a misconception. What I think is the idea that eventually players will be able to make clothes and sell them but that there will be special clothes that won´t be available in the game but only in the microtransaction shop. A bit like the tournament ship awards.


As good as it would be to pick up on that angle, during fanfest there was a lot of discussion on it, and a lot of comments at the time of being uncomfortable with the base concept.

Which was surprising. EVE is an open environment, you get the tools and access (or means to access) to resources and with that you create stuff you use to impact yourself, others and the environment.

Hearing at the time that applying that principle to Incarna would be a bad idea as players would make a mess of it with pink tanktops and stuff that would break the immersion, was a bit of a surprise. After all it's a decisions whether to do everything yourself (thus competing with all those customers and their energy while never being able to capitalise on each and every or even most commercial opportunities) or to simply (again) provide tools and access, and set up requirements / guidelines to maintain immersion.

It's an understandable debate, but at least to me it makes more sense to maintain principles of concepts which have thusfar been excellent in growing EVE over the years. An emerging dynamic as EVE depends directly on what the folks inside the dynamic create. Patterns, trends, stuff. Sure CCP is as much a part of that as players are, but still it's a case of doing the most efficient thing without changing the principles of the dynamic.

So, not much hope for what you're saying. Let's hope they have taken into account feedback and considerations.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.05.25 13:07:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 25/05/2011 13:07:40
Originally by: Mr Kidd
Quote:

You are referring to the what? The 7% of the active player base that roam the forums? Yeah, that's a LOT of opposition there......Rolling Eyes



Yes, another "got me" moment. A small self-selecting population of individuals can never be representative of the larger population.

FYP

clearly you weren't thinking anything useful (or have no idea of applied statistics)

Prince Kobol
Posted - 2011.05.25 13:38:00 - [105]
 

Cant believe I'm going to say this but I entirely agree with the Vile Rat.

MT is going to happen whether you like it or not.

Every MMO is going down this road.

The issue is not whether CCP is going to introduce MT but rather how it is introduced in game.

As a Lotro player (lifetimer) I have had a lot experience how MT can kill a game dead.

If it is purely cosmetics then no problem.

If they decided to introduce say ships like the Navy State Raven (ships that are very rare) for some ridiculous amount of money, then again I have no issue. If somebody wants to pay lots of RL money for a ship good luck to them as chances are they will never un-dock it.

The problem for me personally is if they start to produce items which can have a direct effect in game which are exclusive to a MT store and can not be gained in game.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.25 13:40:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/05/2011 04:28:13
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys

Just some pointers.
You say that MT contradicts the player run economy of EVE, no it doesn't. It would only do so if NPC shops were selling items that were ALSO producible by players so unless players are given the ability to produce the items sold in the stores there is ZERO conflict there. This is precisely why NPC's no longer build or sell shuttles.



lol yeah that post was a mess. anyways.

Well if you read the op I'm more just worried about not being shown what they have in mind until it went live. Which was addressed, by a dev no less. And your right I'm worried over nothing, as in the lack of anything shown, no future plan at fanfest ect. I was just explaining my concern. On that note. Your saying that NPC shops do not contradict the player run economy of EVE?

So if say... they removed all ammo bps from the game and made them NPC sold only, this would not contradict a player run economy? Neutral



No, that has nothing to do with what you or I were talking about mom. That would clearly interfere with a player driven economy, but since CCP has made it quite clear that any item that could give one player a tactical advantage over another should only be player created, the idea that they would suddenly make ammo only producible by NPC's is an illogical reversal.


but my point is by making the MTs for blueprint or say, arcade machines. The players could run the stores with MT items.

How cool would it be to buy an arcade cabinet for 5$, place in in your bar, and let people play it for isk?

Or haircut skill books. Meaning they could pay the 10$ for the hair cut pack, and give themselves the hair. or they could go to my hair salon, pay the isk version of 50cents, and get the same hair cut.

Buy bluk, sell for profit. the corner stone of any shop in real life. Like when i go to the cash and carry to get ingredients for round table. It would cost a normal person way to much just for a pizza. spending like 1000$ on food. but the pizzas only cost us 3$ to make and we sell them for 10-20$!


so MT could become a provider. let us share the MT love.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.25 13:43:00 - [107]
 

also vile rat, keep in mind that first impression means a lot to vile vets.

So because of CSM 1-3 especially. with the 4-5% voter turn out and lack of anything happening. you're fighting an uphill battle. But I say, you can do it!

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.05.25 13:47:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 25/05/2011 13:48:40
Originally by: Vile rat

I like this game and want it to be a fun place to play spaceships. There are representatives from a wide variety of gameplay styles on the CSM this year, from Goons in space to PL in space to lowsec guys to whatever. Also CSM alternates have access to all the same comm channels and access to the summit information. You're not going to find anybody claiming that any of us are just there advocating for our particular group, because it isn't happening. This is the last I'll comment on it though since it's a dumb distraction about dumb stuff.



Look, I hope I'm wrong. Seriously. Politically speaking, there always are a wide range of representatives. And, they typically represent a wide range of interests but most assuredly their own.

Quote:
Give it up dude.


I don't require that people, even my "representatives" (ha!) agree with me. However, your style for listening to your constituency is a bit disturbing. The fact that I'm not a Goon does not elude me.

Quote:

I can't speak for previous CSM's but this is absolutely not true this year. I don't know if CSM 5 helped them have a 'aha!' moment, but CCP is taking this very seriously and is involving us in a huge way.



Or maybe internal influences. IDK. Time will tell either way. I hope the CSM is as effectual with CCP and supportive of the entire player base as you indicate it to be.

Quote:


Your concerns are unfounded. We had a long conversation with CCP about where we are comfortable with MT going and we're in agreement on where things stand. This is why there is a CSM fyi. We're there to communicate things that they might not see from their angle and help them find a path that will work. We were given the chance to help set an acceptable path for MT (no gold ammo for scorpions!) and CCP is on the same page as us. If your concern is that this will be a slippery slope, then be assured that we are going to be monitoring this closely to make sure it doesn't deviate. If it does deviate then this will become a different conversation and we'll work with CCP to ensure things don't jump the rails.


This is your best worded, most assuring verbiage to date. Unfortunately, the assurances you inspired there are somewhat invalidated here:

Quote:

Also if you just have a moral issue with spending rl bux for hot pink leggings, get over it.


So long as said leggings don't imbue advantages in game I can live with it. Unfortunately, I can't shrug the nagging feeling that eventually we'll have been lied to....again. Pardon me if voicing my concerns upsets your sensibilities. I am after all only a player, a constituent of your representation.

I would suggest that you learn to take criticism less personally and your constituents' concerns a bit more seriously, at least superficially. Your replies seem to indicate the opposite which is never good for a politician or his/her contiuents.

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.25 14:27:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
I don't require that people, even my "representatives" (ha!) agree with me. However, your style for listening to your constituency is a bit disturbing. The fact that I'm not a Goon does not elude me.



Some will like my style some won't! I am a unique butterfly comfortable with my tone and content Surprised

Quote:

Or maybe internal influences. IDK. Time will tell either way. I hope the CSM is as effectual with CCP and supportive of the entire player base as you indicate it to be.


We communicate. Constantly. We literally have daily convo's with CCP about this stuff (and tanks). We've worked hard to build up a relationship where

Quote:

Unfortunately, I can't shrug the nagging feeling that eventually we'll have been lied to....again.


this won't happen. If it does happen, we'll have been lied to as well and will be in a great position to push back and influence positive change before bad things occur.


Quote:

I would suggest that you learn to take criticism less personally and your constituents' concerns a bit more seriously, at least superficially. Your replies seem to indicate the opposite which is never good for a politician or his/her contiuents.



Stop throwing the constituency word around. You clearly didn't vote for me with your displayed bias paraded for all to see. I'm happy to represent you, but I'm not going to let you take cheap shots and get away with it. If you want me to be chill and realtalk with you, treat me with at least the basic level of respect you would want coming from me.

Smile

So'rren
Posted - 2011.05.25 14:39:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: Mr Kidd
I don't require that people, even my "representatives" (ha!) agree with me. However, your style for listening to your constituency is a bit disturbing. The fact that I'm not a Goon does not elude me.



Some will like my style some won't! I am a unique butterfly comfortable with my tone and content Surprised

Quote:

Or maybe internal influences. IDK. Time will tell either way. I hope the CSM is as effectual with CCP and supportive of the entire player base as you indicate it to be.


We communicate. Constantly. We literally have daily convo's with CCP about this stuff (and tanks). We've worked hard to build up a relationship where

Quote:

Unfortunately, I can't shrug the nagging feeling that eventually we'll have been lied to....again.


this won't happen. If it does happen, we'll have been lied to as well and will be in a great position to push back and influence positive change before bad things occur.


Quote:

I would suggest that you learn to take criticism less personally and your constituents' concerns a bit more seriously, at least superficially. Your replies seem to indicate the opposite which is never good for a politician or his/her contiuents.



Stop throwing the constituency word around. You clearly didn't vote for me with your displayed bias paraded for all to see. I'm happy to represent you, but I'm not going to let you take cheap shots and get away with it. If you want me to be chill and realtalk with you, treat me with at least the basic level of respect you would want coming from me.

Smile


Wow.

This thread is why so many people think the CSM is a joke. Reading back, I see that only one or two people understand the concept of a "slippery slope" which CCP is treading upon.

The best way to ensure that "non vanity" MT items do not appear in this game is to prevent "vanity" MT items from appearing in this game. There is no other way.

The CSM isn't fighting because "it's going to happen anyway"? Spineless Vile, and I think you know it.

It's the good thing that the CUSTOMERS are the true stakeholders, not some pretend board (that's more akin to a trade organization like the EFF than a government. The arguments that its similar to a government are painfully ignorant).

Mica Swanhaven
Posted - 2011.05.25 14:45:00 - [111]
 

Don't be a fool. MTs in eve can be bought for isk.

vanity items only is the way to make Micro-transactions vanity only forever.

don't be a paranoid little brat.

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.25 14:55:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: So'rren
Wow.

This thread is why so many people think the CSM is a joke. Reading back, I see that only one or two people understand the concept of a "slippery slope" which CCP is treading upon.

The best way to ensure that "non vanity" MT items do not appear in this game is to prevent "vanity" MT items from appearing in this game. There is no other way.

The CSM isn't fighting because "it's going to happen anyway"? Spineless Vile, and I think you know it.

It's the good thing that the CUSTOMERS are the true stakeholders, not some pretend board (that's more akin to a trade organization like the EFF than a government. The arguments that its similar to a government are painfully ignorant).


I personally jumped on the table swinging a sword threatening everybody in the room if they didn't bow to our demands. Whoda thought that it wouldn't have worked in a company full of viking descendents?

I get your argument and we are aware that putting a foot in the door ~could~ lead to more, but let's not forget this is a private business and they can do whatever they want. They could sell pimped out superships for cash if they wanted to and you can only vote with your feet. We felt it was more productive to channel MT into a safe path and keep them informed of our strong opinions about deviating from it instead of pointlessly being obstructive with no chance of success.


Dogo Duma
Posted - 2011.05.25 15:16:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: So'rren
Wow.

This thread is why so many people think the CSM is a joke. Reading back, I see that only one or two people understand the concept of a "slippery slope" which CCP is treading upon.

The best way to ensure that "non vanity" MT items do not appear in this game is to prevent "vanity" MT items from appearing in this game. There is no other way.

The CSM isn't fighting because "it's going to happen anyway"? Spineless Vile, and I think you know it.

It's the good thing that the CUSTOMERS are the true stakeholders, not some pretend board (that's more akin to a trade organization like the EFF than a government. The arguments that its similar to a government are painfully ignorant).


I personally jumped on the table swinging a sword threatening everybody in the room if they didn't bow to our demands. Whoda thought that it wouldn't have worked in a company full of viking descendents?

I get your argument and we are aware that putting a foot in the door ~could~ lead to more, but let's not forget this is a private business and they can do whatever they want. They could sell pimped out superships for cash if they wanted to and you can only vote with your feet. We felt it was more productive to channel MT into a safe path and keep them informed of our strong opinions about deviating from it instead of pointlessly being obstructive with no chance of success.




Yeah, we all owe CSM5 a debt of gratitude for tackling that. Good to see CSM6 continuing that.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:46:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 25/05/2011 20:50:40
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 25/05/2011 20:47:03
Originally by: Vile rat

Stop throwing the constituency word around. You clearly didn't vote for me with your displayed bias paraded for all to see.
Smile


If my vote was required for fair and impartial representation and someone with whom I can voice my concerns then you've already confirmed my fears. After all, I'm sure the Goon vote was more or less for you and the vast majority of the remainder of the population voting and non-voting were not. Are you saying now that you do not consider the remainder of the population of Eve as your constituency? If so, exactly which portion of the population in Eve do you represent?

Quote:
I'm happy to represent you, but I'm not going to let you take cheap shots and get away with it. If you want me to be chill and realtalk with you, treat me with at least the basic level of respect you would want coming from me.


Does your happiness to represent me extend beyond nodding my head in agreement with whatever you have to say? Or does pointing out conflicts of interest and cautioning against certain decisions in CCP mean we can't be friends anymore? Because it's sounding like if I'm not going to tow the 'party' line you're saying I'm making cheapshots. I have done no such thing.

Kale Kold
Mindless Griefing
Posted - 2011.05.26 13:03:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Vile rat
If letting some dudes pay to get a miniskirt for their fake girl avatar gives us faster development times because they got more dudes working on stuff? Good. Got no problem with it.


This is total bulls**t! This will only mean more devs creating even moar micro-transaction stuff!

Micro-transactions have only ever been bad when implementing them later on in an established game and always never wanted (or needed) by the player base!!! Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.05.26 13:45:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 26/05/2011 13:46:46


I hope we get to BUY hats like Portal 2!

Then I can steal them of idiots who bought them in the first place.



Irulan Corinno
Caldari
714th SQN - Snowflakes
Posted - 2011.05.26 13:48:00 - [117]
 

I can't wait to buy a nice dress with plex! Cool

or isk .. what's the difference anyway?

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.05.26 13:49:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Irulan Corinno
I can't wait to buy a nice dress with plex! Cool

or isk .. what's the difference anyway?



Yeah my male character wants a wedding dress for his toon.

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.05.26 13:55:00 - [119]
 

I remember a game called Ragnarok Online, I played the iRO version. The game started a decline and they introduced something called a "Kafra Mall" where you could buy in-game items with real money. The game saw an even bigger decline and I believe it's free to play now.

Hot Sleazy Wench
Posted - 2011.05.26 13:58:00 - [120]
 

When will I be able to buy skill points???


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