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blankseplocked Sinks, Faucets, and ISK Inflation.
 
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Wolodymyr
Posted - 2011.05.20 20:27:00 - [1]
 

have you guys seen the new eve quarterly economic report?

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q4-2010.pdf

There is a lot of interesting stuff in there but the one big one that not a lot of people have been talking about as much as they should is inflation. If you go to page 19 you'll see the sinks and faucets in eve. Basically isk flowing in and out of the system. Over the years there has been far more isk entering eve than leaving it and this is causing inflation. That's why everything costs so much these days. It'd tell you to google what inflation can do to an economy but I know you won't do that. So just remember Diablo 2 where everyone bought things by trading SOJs.

So if we want to save eve's economy we are going to have to either turn down the faucets or ramp up the sinks. Whatever we do this is going to **** a lot of people off. And as any good tea party member will tell you, no matter how much it hurts the economy people like making money and hate paying taxes. And unless we want isk to turn into the new space pesos.... spaceos... we are going to have to do something soon.

That One Guy
Posted - 2011.05.20 20:35:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: That One Guy on 20/05/2011 20:42:29
Right off the bat the biggest faucet is pirate bounties. They will have to go, but killing pirates still needs a reward, otherwise people will just straight up leave nullsec.

One solution might be the rouge drone solution. Just have them drop minerals, or better yet, T2 building materials. This might create a kind of "material inflation" where the market is flooded with materials.

This might not be so bad as more materials would encourage more ship construction. And more ship construction would encourage people taking more advanced ships (which are now cheaper) along on roams and CTAs. More ships in space means more of them getting blown up which makes it's own material sink.


You could also go the incursion route and hand out LP. Loyalty Points are basically inflation proof since they can't be given to other players and can only be turned in at certain NPC stores for items. LP is basically a module, or ammo, or something, waiting to happen.

Pirokobo
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.20 21:32:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Pirokobo on 20/05/2011 21:34:54
There is so much wrong with what both of you said that I'm just going to focus on the obvious points:

1. If you eliminate bounty prizes, the remaining isk faucets do not equal the existing sinks.
2. The depicted sinks do not include the largest one, which is the difference between insurance and actual fitted ship cost. PvP combat losses are an isk sink, but one which is harder to depict in a graph. Not all the mods survive and insurance doesn't cover the full cost.

3. Prices on tech 1 items are generally stable or declining over the last year despite ccp eliminating the tritanium floor several years ago. If you look at the mineral price index on page 23 you can see that mineral prices are declining in more months then they are climbing. Tech 2 prices are climbing because PI drives up POS operation costs.

The past year trends suggest that the game did go from a period of gradual deflation to stabilization to gradual inflation, but nothing which suggests that anything is seriously out of whack.

Deal wiz it.

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2011.05.20 23:27:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Pirokobo
2. The depicted sinks do not include the largest one, which is the difference between insurance and actual fitted ship cost. PvP combat losses are an isk sink, but one which is harder to depict in a graph. Not all the mods survive and insurance doesn't cover the full cost.

Uh, no. Ship destruction is an ISK faucet, and mod destruction is ISK-neutral. When you buy a ship and mods from the market, money is transferred from you to the sellers (less transaction taxes). When your ship then explodes, you get an insurance payout. The net result is that the amount of ISK in the game has increased - the guys you bought the ship from still have the ISK you gave them, but now you have the insurance payout in your wallet as well. You individually are worse off, but the amount of ISK in the game as a whole has gone up.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.21 05:38:00 - [5]
 

When you typed 'not ... talked about as much', I assume you meant 'part of almost every economics related topic discussed the past few years'?

The keys are like, almost right next to each other so it's an easy typo to make.

xian2
Posted - 2011.05.23 23:53:00 - [6]
 

Players should not receive an insurance payout for a ship they have lost in 0.0. The current insurance mechanic makes no sense to me. This has probably been discussed before, but I have yet to see it.
Remove insurance payments for ships lost out in 0.0 and PvP will become a much larger ISK sink. It would also make the destruction from battles have more actual impact. To me, it just seems like a good change overall. Does anyone disagree? I would like to hear your arguments.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.05.25 11:03:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: xian2
Remove insurance payments for ships lost out in 0.0 and PvP will become a much larger ISK sink.

*bangs head against wall* Losing a ship is not an economic ISK sink! It is a material sink! How hard is that to understand?
Even if all ISK payout would be removed, losing a ship would still be ISK-neutral.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.28 14:06:00 - [8]
 


That QEN is not new it is months old.

It has been discussed to death by experts on the Eve Economy in the market discussion forum.

The economy is actually suffering from deflation.




Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.05.30 06:09:00 - [9]
 

"Ramping up the sinks" doesn't help unless you put the sinks where the ISK is currently settling in huge pools, going stale and stagnant.

So Jo Random has a huge industrial empire, and has more ISK than she can spend. What is she going to do with that ISK now? Buying more ships isn't going to help, since Jo has three of everything already. Buying better modules isn't going to help, Jo already has officer fits on every ship.

The ISK is just going to sit in Jo's account with no purpose.

Turn up the existing ISK sinks, and suddenly those people who have a hard time accumulating ISK in the first place are just going to be hit harder.

What we need is a new ISK sink which will provide an endless stream of new things to offer the pilot who has everything.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.05.30 11:00:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
"Ramping up the sinks" doesn't help unless you put the sinks where the ISK is currently settling in huge pools, going stale and stagnant.

So Jo Random has a huge industrial empire, and has more ISK than she can spend. What is she going to do with that ISK now? Buying more ships isn't going to help, since Jo has three of everything already. Buying better modules isn't going to help, Jo already has officer fits on every ship.

The ISK is just going to sit in Jo's account with no purpose.

Turn up the existing ISK sinks, and suddenly those people who have a hard time accumulating ISK in the first place are just going to be hit harder.

What we need is a new ISK sink which will provide an endless stream of new things to offer the pilot who has everything.


That's actually a pretty good point how do we get those traders who accumulated hundreds of billions of ISK to recirculate their money? On the other hand: how much have they really accumulated in active accounts? Most manufacturers and nearly all traders should have a rather small wallet compared to their total NAV.

Personally, I'm all for an ISK circulation which is as closed as possible, i.e. as few sources and sinks as possible. Remove all NPC bounties in null-sec and low-sec! Twisted Evil

Mortimer Civeri
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.05.30 22:03:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Originally by: Mara Rinn
"Ramping up the sinks" doesn't help unless you put the sinks where the ISK is currently settling in huge pools, going stale and stagnant.

So Jo Random has a huge industrial empire, and has more ISK than she can spend. What is she going to do with that ISK now? Buying more ships isn't going to help, since Jo has three of everything already. Buying better modules isn't going to help, Jo already has officer fits on every ship.

The ISK is just going to sit in Jo's account with no purpose.

Turn up the existing ISK sinks, and suddenly those people who have a hard time accumulating ISK in the first place are just going to be hit harder.

What we need is a new ISK sink which will provide an endless stream of new things to offer the pilot who has everything.


That's actually a pretty good point how do we get those traders who accumulated hundreds of billions of ISK to recirculate their money? On the other hand: how much have they really accumulated in active accounts? Most manufacturers and nearly all traders should have a rather small wallet compared to their total NAV.

Personally, I'm all for an ISK circulation which is as closed as possible, i.e. as few sources and sinks as possible. Remove all NPC bounties in null-sec and low-sec! Twisted Evil


Even better lets just get rid of NPC bounties in just high sec, since 80% of the EVE population resides there. The biggest faucet gets the biggest nerf. That should take care of the fountain of isk spewing from L4 agentsTwisted Evil

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.05.31 06:27:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Mortimer Civeri
Even better lets just get rid of NPC bounties in just high sec, since 80% of the EVE population resides there. The biggest faucet gets the biggest nerf. That should take care of the fountain of isk spewing from L4 agentsTwisted Evil

Well, I doubt anyone makes serious ISK from high-sec ratting ;-) But it would be interesting to know how much ISK is made from mission rats in high-sec compared to belt and anomaly rats in null-sec.
As for mission rewards: this is balanced by the loyalty store (there was a post by a dev sometime ago; I don't have the link, though). In fact, together with the loyalty store, missions are a negligible sink.


 

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