open All Channels
seplocked EVE New Citizens Q&A
blankseplocked Specializing
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Cassandra Bloodwing
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:14:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Cassandra Bloodwing on 19/05/2011 10:15:11
Hi!

I am thinking about what to specialize my character in down the road.Right now I am still training Minmatar Frigate 4 to get to cruiser but someday I want to train for T2 ships, either cruiser or battlecruisers I think.

And now I am wondering what kind of (combat) ship would be desired in corps because of its usefulness but maybe isn't flown by that many people (maybe because its difficult to fly or needs a lot of skill points that aren't good for other things etc.)?

Basically something a corp would want to have that not many pilots fly? Is there something like that?

I thought maybe logistics ships would fit that but then I read that logistics ships aren't really that useful?

I'd like to make myself desireable to a corp while not having millions of skill points yet. (If that is possible)


Thanks!


Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:34:00 - [2]
 

Training to fly Logistics ships is not a bad option. Get involved in Incursions, learn fleet tactics, and become more useful to corporations that are engaged in combat from day to day.

Along the way, train to fly a covops frigate, train astrometrics and cynosural field theory.

Two career paths are open to you there, with the future possibly including flying a carrier.

Most importantly, make friends and have fun!

Silas Cooper
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:53:00 - [3]
 

Above poster is quite correct, Both logistics (Minnie version works quite well in smaller engagements) and covops are two paths that add a lot to a fleet and aren't necessarily easily avaiable. Both require a different mindset from the "pewpew" idea and can be fulfilling.

Do realise that if you are looking for bigger corps/fleets/0.0 work then perhaps you might want to switch to Amarr logistics first, personal preference.

However, I would urge you to train up some combat options first, being able to fly a decent Hurricane is always a good thing. You can earn isk with ratting or the like and you have some options to do stuff alone. If you fully focus on fleet support (in whatever form) you'll be bored to F when there's no fleet around and others are making some isk or whatever.

sycore101
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:58:00 - [4]
 

If your still training frigates, the i would say just carry on along that kinda path, although i would say train for destroyer instead of frigates, lots of people will say frigates are great speedy little fighters, but a destoryer with afterburners & a compliment of 7 gun turrets won't do you wrong. Mind a little shield tanking as well might go well.

But in all fairness i would say train your gunery skills to max, such as small autocannon specialization & small artillery specilization or which ever gus you choose to use, i'm sure there skills for all of them.

At least this way as you progress up to bigger ships you won't be left behind with crap wepon stats, plus you need to of done the small specializatoin before you progress to the medium specilization.

& by the time you getting this far you might have a better idea of where your headed in terms of ships etc.

Ji'kahr
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:14:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Ji''kahr on 19/05/2011 11:19:05

I am thinking about what to specialize my character in down the road.Right now I am still training Minmatar Frigate 4 to get to cruiser but someday I want to train for T2 ships, either cruiser or battlecruisers I think. [

If I were you, I would stick to tech 1 frigates for a while (six months or so), until you can fly them really, really well. This means training all your electronic skills up to 5, all your engineering skills to 5, all your navigation skills to 5, gunnery up to 5. These support skills are essential and translate into every ship you will fly. Use the certificates as a guide.

Every fleet absolutely needs a fast tackler, and the Minmatar Rifter is arguably the best combat frigate in EVE. Rifters are also very cheap to lose, and you will likely be losing a lot of ships at first. Thrashers (Destroyers) are awesome too, and cheap to lose.

And now I am wondering what kind of (combat) ship would be desired in corps because of its usefulness but maybe isn't flown by that many people (maybe because its difficult to fly or needs a lot of skill points that aren't good for other things etc.)?

Well it's not so much the combat ships as the pilots themselves.

Generally if you can fly one tech 1-2 frigate, cruiser, battlecruiser you can fly them all, and they are kind of like the tools in a tool box. Hammers are awesome for hammering nails, but fail at cutting through wood. Saws aren't good for driving nails, etc. In your EVE career you are likely to accumulate scores of different ships in different stations which will each suit a different purpose. You will find you have to 'ship up' or 'ship down', or switch from a DPS ship to an E-War ship since the battlefield is always changing.

Basically something a corp would want to have that not many pilots fly? Is there something like that?

In my opinion/ experience, everyone wants to be on a kill-mail. Most people want to do massive DPS, so they tend to prefer the massive damage ships. Not many people want to fly e-war ships, even though they are very useful in locking out the enemy's targeting so they can't hit you. Not many people want to fly covert ops frigates, even though a good scout is absolutely essential to every successful fleet op. A target painter on a covert ops ship will not only help out your fleet mates, but will get you on a kill mail.

I thought maybe logistics ships would fit that but then I read that logistics ships aren't really that useful?

Logistics ships are very useful, but you won't get on (m)any killmails. They aren't really combat ships so much as support ships. They also tend to be more skill intensive, and also more suited to Amarr fleet tactics.

I'd like to make myself desireable to a corp while not having millions of skill points yet. (If that is possible)

Millions of skill points aren't that important. What is more important is emotional maturity, a good attitude, and patience. A sense of humour is a bonus too. There are lots of excellent FW corps that would be happy to have you and train you.




Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:14:00 - [6]
 


Electronic warfare is another area of support.



One thing though - is that by getting involved in PVP at the frigate level - you'll have some cheap ships to fly while getting a feel for what fleet combat is all about. Just put on a webber and scrambler/distruptor and x up as a tackler. You'll die a lot but just doing that will let you see how the people who are providing fleet support work as part of the fleet. That way - when you show up in your support ship - you'll understand your role and the Fleet Commanders instructions rather than just blundering about.

The idea that you would train as a Fleet Support Guy with the intention of selling yourself to a corporation as a desirable person to have - and then show up to the fight not knowing what to do - is not such a good idea.

Tackling is a relatively simple job that will make you useful with a minimum of skills. They always need tacklers as once people who were tacklers get better skills - they often move up the chain of command/food chain and need someone to take their place.

Just start off learning the basics of Fleet interaction - then when you get your Support Skills trained up - you'll have enough experience to have some idea of what you're doing.

.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:19:00 - [7]
 

My recommendation is to give a wide variety of ships a try, before starting to specialise.

If you want to try how logistics work, you can very quickly train up for an exequror and osprey, first being the remote armor repairer and second shield repairer. They should give you a good feeling as to the differences between two approaches, take about a 2 days to get in with cruiser skill to level III, and will show you if you like being the logistic or not.

Same can be applied to any other advanced ship class. If you need further info, just ask here or even message me in game if you would like a conversation about mechanics of EvE.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:36:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ji'kahr
If I were you, I would stick to tech 1 frigates for a while (six months or so), until you can fly them really, really well. This means training all your electronic skills up to 5, all your engineering skills to 5, all your navigation skills to 5, gunnery up to 5. These support skills are essential and translate into every ship you will fly. Use the certificates as a guide.


Tip #1: Never listen to thing this poster or anyone like him ever says, again.
Six months in a frigate? FFS that's just taking things to an extreme. Not least because 3 of those months will be spent training the final 5% of any related effeciency Rolling Eyes

Play around. Try out a lot of things. Train a load of things to the point where you can barely use them, and see if you like them. Like a few things in particular? Then you can start to narrow down and specialise.

For what it's worth, getting your Racial cruiser skill to level 5 is a big opening. Logistics, recon, etc .. they're all a short train away once you have it.

Get out there and learn it for yourself, and just lol at all the "everything to level 5!!! Or don't bother!!!" crowd.

Apart from T2 large guns, you can get a pretty decent Battleship together within 6 months Rolling Eyes

Cassandra Bloodwing
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:39:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Cassandra Bloodwing on 19/05/2011 11:40:15
Edited by: Cassandra Bloodwing on 19/05/2011 11:39:56
Thanks for all the answers!

So in essence I should train up all frigate related skills to 5 first and get some pvp experience, then go Hurricane or (and?) train EWar, CovOps or Logistics ships?

I don't feel the need to be on a kill mail, I like the idea of supporting the fleet.

So when I am more expeirenced in pvp I think I'll just skill all three, Ewar, CovOps and Logistics. Ewar and Logistics 'sound' the most interesting. I bet Ewar is the most complex and hard to learn though isn't it?

I'll try out Logistics and Ewar in T1 ships, though I'll have to find someone to repair or jam for that *s*.


*edit*

To Lady go Diveher: so I shouldn't train all frigate related skills to 5?

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:43:00 - [10]
 

No.

You should first train up most things to III, then to IV. Leave V for the very narrow group of things you really really love.

If you want to scout, you can start right now in a decently fit rifter, from no skills to decently fit it is 3 days of training.
Do not wait for "the next big skill" before you start diving into action. Never ever wait for "most or all things to V". III and IV is good enough, and takes virtually no time (from the perspective of all V).

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:53:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Cassandra Bloodwing
To Lady go Diveher: so I shouldn't train all frigate related skills to 5?


Depends on the skill.

Racial Frig V is a good one to get, as you get T2 frigs, etc.

There aren't many other "frigate skills" except for gunnery.

Small autocannons needs to go to V, as does the spec skill to IV to get you T2 medium autocannons, which is where you want to be at. You can put together a really nice Rifter early on, a Thrasher at about the same time, to have a niche anti-frigate role. A Rupture works fine on T1 medium AC's, but a stabber prefers T2's. A Hurricane really, really wants T2 AC's to fit its bonuses (prepare to wax lyrical over how lovely Barrage M really is..)

Your core skills need only be high enough to fit what you need. Electronics V? If you don't need the CPU for the fit, and it's not a pre-req, you don't currently need it.... etc.

By all means, get some PVP learning under your belt in a Frigate first, but don't think you HAVE to stay in that ship class, because some elitist ass says so.

He's 9 kills for 100 losses anyway ... so who does he think he is offering PVP advice?

Ewar - you can start to use at a basic level really soon ... a Griffin with Meta4 jammers is a good option. Blackbird? Also incredibly useful and a quick train. Other T1 ewar cruisers can carve out niche roles. Logistics only really becomes worthwhile when you're in a T2 logi, or you'd be better off adding some DPS or tackle to the gang.

RvB and factional warfare are two excellent places to learn PVP in an environment conducive to small ships, low SP and low experience. RvB will even make sure all fights are fair, and tell you where you went wrong.

I really can't suggest anything better than that.

Ji'kahr
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:54:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Ji'kahr
If I were you, I would stick to tech 1 frigates for a while (six months or so), until you can fly them really, really well. This means training all your electronic skills up to 5, all your engineering skills to 5, all your navigation skills to 5, gunnery up to 5. These support skills are essential and translate into every ship you will fly. Use the certificates as a guide.


Tip #1: Never listen to thing this poster or anyone like him ever says, again.
Six months in a frigate? FFS that's just taking things to an extreme. Not least because 3 of those months will be spent training the final 5% of any related effeciency Rolling Eyes

Play around. Try out a lot of things. Train a load of things to the point where you can barely use them, and see if you like them. Like a few things in particular? Then you can start to narrow down and specialise.

For what it's worth, getting your Racial cruiser skill to level 5 is a big opening. Logistics, recon, etc .. they're all a short train away once you have it.

Get out there and learn it for yourself, and just lol at all the "everything to level 5!!! Or don't bother!!!" crowd.

Apart from T2 large guns, you can get a pretty decent Battleship together within 6 months Rolling Eyes


I think you are taking what I am saying out of context. I am not saying 'train it to 5, or don't bother'. I am saying 'If it's worth training to 3 then it's worth training to 5'. Having all your support skills is important, as someone else (another person 'like me'?) said as well.

I mean, fly what you want, but Never fly what you can't afford to lose. Tech 1 frigates are cheap to lose, and always useful in a fleet as fast tackle.You can learn to fly them in a few days, but they take several months to fly really well, and all those skills will automatically translate into any sized ship you fly.

Just because you can fly a battleship, doesn't always mean you should.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:57:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Ji'kahr
I am not saying 'train it to 5, or don't bother'. I am saying 'If it's worth training to 3 then it's worth training to 5'

NO. There's 100 example or more of this being stupid.
Quote:
Tech 1 frigates are cheap to lose, and always useful in a fleet as fast tackle.You can learn to fly them in a few days, but they take several months to fly really well

But they just don't. There's simply not enough skills to train to take 6 months. What is that ... about 8-9million SP?
Just think it over.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.05.19 12:25:00 - [14]
 

If it is worth training to III it is worth training to V.

No. Just... No.

Of course it is a very personal preference as to where to stop, but i can offer my point of view.

Multitasking: worth it at III? Yes Worth it at IV or V? No.
Weapon specialisation: worth it at III? Yes. Worth it at IV? Yes, even if it wasn't a prerequisite for larger weapon systems. Worth it at V? No, not really.
Logistics: Worth it at III? Yes. Worth it at IV? I would say mandatory. Worth it at V? Yes. But do you fly them so often as to spend 20 days?
Recon: worth it at III? Of course. Worth it at IV? I would say mandatory. Worth it at V? Very nice to have, but do you fly them so often?

And so on...

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.05.19 20:59:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Cassandra Bloodwing
So in essence I should train up all frigate related skills to 5 first and get some pvp experience, then go Hurricane or (and?) train EWar, CovOps or Logistics ships?



So when I am more expeirenced in pvp I think I'll just skill all three, Ewar, CovOps and Logistics.


Just remember that it takes four times as long to train any skill to level N+1 as it takes to train that skill to level N. You could train four other same-rank skills to N rather than train that one skill to N+1.

You don't need all those skills to 5. Training Engineering, Electronics, Mechanic, Shield Operation, Shield Management, Energy Systems Operation, Energy Management etc to level 5 is a very worthy goal - these are your essential "support" skills for any ship. Don't let level 5 get in the way of flying frigates and cruisers though.

You will be able to sample a swathe of options if you stick to level 3 or 4 and only train things to 5 once you know that the extra level will be enhancing your (enjoyment of) your playstyle.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.20 05:36:00 - [16]
 

Training logistics up to 4 and flying a Logi around with you fleet isn't a bad call. You'll need cruisers V and a couple other useful skills to V to fly one at all, and to fly one with any level of competence whatsoever you'll be training up all your capacitor and tanking skills as well as most of your navigation skills -- things that serve a great number of ships well.

I'd advise detouring into a weapon path and grabbing Battlecruiser IV while you're at it so you have some other options in combat, but yeah, Logi is a good primary ship-type if you just want to feel needed.

Cassandra Bloodwing
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.20 08:18:00 - [17]
 

I think I made up my path now, I'll train logistics and then command shipe and while doing that I'll specialize into medium autocannons and missiles (and all the skills needed to fly logistics and command ships well).

Thanks for the advice!

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.05.20 08:57:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Cassandra Bloodwing
I think I made up my path now, I'll train logistics and then command shipe and while doing that I'll specialize into medium autocannons and missiles (and all the skills needed to fly logistics and command ships well).

Thanks for the advice!


You're gonna love the Sleipnir Wink

Cassandra Bloodwing
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.20 09:16:00 - [19]
 

Hmm I actually thought I'd get a Claymore! (someday) :P is the Sleipnir better than the Claymore?

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.05.20 09:29:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Cassandra Bloodwing
Hmm I actually thought I'd get a Claymore! (someday) :P is the Sleipnir better than the Claymore?


With the right implants, skill and combat boosters, the Sleip is an OMFGWHATISTHATOMGIAMPWNED mobile.

The Claymore is not bad, but once you have Battlecruisers V then it's worth crosstraining a few of the command ships, to be able to throw down better (specific) bonuses for your gang, as the training does not take long.

The damnation, in particular, will make you very popular due to the prevailance of armour-buffer tanks in PVP

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.05.20 09:52:00 - [21]
 

If you plan to boost your gang, consider the T3 ships with command subsystems. They provide better boni. They also cost more, and there is a bit of subsystem training in what is most likely not your remap.

If you are serious about being the fleet booster, mindlinks are quite mandatory, you need Cybernetics V for them.

Silas Cooper
Posted - 2011.05.20 10:13:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Silas Cooper on 20/05/2011 10:13:12
While Foksie is correct, per usual, the T3 gang link ships are mostly alts you leave at some safespot. Fleet CS is also mostly alt but at least can be in the fight with a big tank acting as bait, anchor or FC.

Focussing on gang links as your main character is a great way to be bored in fleets.

Cassandra Bloodwing
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.20 10:53:00 - [23]
 

Hm, that doesn't sound too good then! I don't want to just sit around and stare at the screen, I can do that while mining :P *Has to rethink stuff*

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.05.20 11:13:00 - [24]
 

I would like to point out that command ships make for great solo/small gang ships if you have the ISK to spare and you are not afraid to take risks.

So do not think that training command ships will limit you to staring at the screen bored. They make good ISK earners, and skills you obtain to get them (battlecruisers, HAC, logistics) will help you a lot with other ships i noticed you expressed interest in.

For example, I can fly, and I do fly command ships even though I cannot use ganglinks. Simply due to their awesome local tanks and nasty DPS.

There are more sides to each coin in EvE. :)

Silas Cooper
Posted - 2011.05.20 11:31:00 - [25]
 

CS in and of themselves can be fun although I don't see them as good pvp options isk/capability wise but that's personal, focussing on the gang link side of it all will probably end up in you "always" running your gang link ship/fit.

Ask an FC what he wants, gang links or just another dps and guess what he chooses :)

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.05.20 12:43:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Cassandra Bloodwing
I think I made up my path now, I'll train logistics and then command shipe and while doing that I'll specialize into medium autocannons and missiles (and all the skills needed to fly logistics and command ships well)./quote]

That sounds like a very sound plan!

Throw some missile skills in early, enough to let you fly a Caracal for example, so you can go ratting/mission-running/roaming gangs with your friends. Get that cruiser skill to 5, train hard to Logistics 4, then go back and fill in the other racial cruisers, battlecruiser and weapons.

That's my advice, no doubt others will have different ideas.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only