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blankseplocked Raven CNR question
 
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Seumas IV
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.18 18:53:00 - [1]
 

I'm working on getting the skills and isk together to purchase a Raven CNR. But is there something special that you have to do to get one?
- Have to purchase them somewhere unique?
- Have to have a certain amount of faction?

Just didn't want to get everything all set up and then find out there was some 'small' item I missed.

Thanks!

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.18 19:03:00 - [2]
 

CNR's are offered through the LP store to people who grind lots of Caldari Navy missions and have hundreds of thousands of LP's. Said people buy them from the LP store with LP points, and sell them on the market for lots of ISK's. You can buy them from the market.

The skills required to fly the CNR are the same as for the regular Raven battleship.

Seumas IV
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.18 19:06:00 - [3]
 

Thanks... any idea how much they run for? Is the price tag worth it versus say the standard Raven?

Linda Shadowborn
Gallente
Dark Steel Industries
Posted - 2011.05.18 19:11:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Seumas IV
Thanks... any idea how much they run for? Is the price tag worth it versus say the standard Raven?


530 mill or so atm

And yes they are worth it over the regular raven IF you can afford them and know you can replace them if needed.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.18 19:59:00 - [5]
 

Dude, you can see them on the market, almost right besides regular Ravens, simply look at the market graph.

Gianath
Gallente
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
Posted - 2011.05.18 20:06:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Gianath on 18/05/2011 20:10:16
As others said, you can find them on markets. You may need to move between a few different regions or trade hubs to find a decent price. Contracts will also show lowest prices or offer good deals with rigs on occasion, if you don't mind making 15+ jumps through potentially hostile territory for your prize. Flying an unfitted CNR through 30 gates may make you a tempting target though.

Honestly though, if you are new to battleships, get a regular Raven for now at around 1/5 the cost. You can always sell it for nearly full price later and recoup your losses in insurance if you mess up while you are learning the game. A low-skilled or improperly fitted CNR will attract suicide gankers that want a faction ship kill, and you really shouldn't fly it unless you have the skills to defend it (or buy a new one when you lose it).

Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 20:28:00 - [7]
 

Contracts also. I always check out contracts [VERY CAREFULLY] for a ship i want before buying one off the Market. You can often get a rigged [and sometimes fitted] version off a contract for less or the same price as a stripped on.

...did i mention you should be VERY CAREFUL when you do this?

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.18 20:52:00 - [8]
 

IMO they're not worth the price. A Raven will do L4 missions plenty fast, and costs a tenth of what the CNR costs. Heavy duty mission-runners go for the CNR and spend probably twice or three times the cost of the ship outfitting it with rare modules, but you need very good support and weaponry skills to wring the kind of performance difference out of it that justifies the price tag.

I would not recommend CNR as your first L4 mission ship. Try a Raven until you've learned the missions really well.

Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 21:10:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Merouk Baas
IMO they're not worth the price. A Raven will do L4 missions plenty fast, and costs a tenth of what the CNR costs. Heavy duty mission-runners go for the CNR and spend probably twice or three times the cost of the ship outfitting it with rare modules, but you need very good support and weaponry skills to wring the kind of performance difference out of it that justifies the price tag.

I would not recommend CNR as your first L4 mission ship. Try a Raven until you've learned the missions really well.


I agree with this 110%.

Get and T2 fit a raven for less than 20% of the price of a fully fitted CNR. You'll still be able to clear L4's with ease once you learn them. And, most importantly, losing your stock Raven won't put you out 1B ISK.

Mctana
Caldari
Dead's Prostitutes
White Angels.
Posted - 2011.05.18 22:00:00 - [10]
 

I live in nullsec and the CNR works like a baby Golem; since I cannot do marauders yet. When things are hairy and I can't undock the CNR and have to use the beer foam Raven, it takes me 56 minutes instead of 41 to do a typical angel Haven.... and 7&8/10 complexes are off limits.

They fill a nice role for me; but will of course be superceded once I can use the marauder.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2011.05.19 01:41:00 - [11]
 

I've never flown the CNR, but I do fly the Golem.

The biggest advantage over the regular Raven is an additional launcher's worth of damage.

The sole advantage of the CNR over the Golem is range with acceptable damage using Cruise missiles.
This might be vital for Guristas rats, but I personally don't see the appeal.

It has an on paper DPS advantage when using Torpedoes vs the Golem, but the Golem's target painter bonus allows it's full DPS to a much larger range of targets.
What really sells the Golem is the ability to salvage and loot while missioning.
I personally think it's a superior mission boat to the CNR.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:31:00 - [12]
 

The CNR has more shield, more PG, more CPU. The advantages of the CNR are far greater than just 18% more DPS.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:44:00 - [13]
 

You see this a lot in EVE. Some thing that is marginally better - but costs fantastically more.

Look at the Hulk and the Covetor. The Hulk is certainly a better ships - but not commensurate with it's greater cost.

But - if you want the very best you can get - then you can pay that premium and get it.

Just - as mentioned above - don't start out with really expensive ships until you really know what you're doing. A really expensive ship will not make you a really good pilot - just some inexperienced guy in a really expensive ship he's about to lose ...

It's good to learn how to do things in lesser ships - that way - you aren't relying on the extra ability of the ship to get you through things - so - when things really turn to **** - you've got your wits to fall back on to get your really expensive ship out of trouble.

.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.19 12:42:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 19/05/2011 12:48:36

Getting a navy Raven as your *FIRST* mission battleship is indeed a bad idea.
But getting it soon after you've gotten used to a regular Raven and everything seems to work smooth is a GOOD idea.


Its real benefits are the 16.6% higher DPS (which translate in at least -20% mission runtime or better if you don't have great skills, yes, you read that right, no typo/mistake), a 25 m^3 larger drone bay (to carry a set of spare lights, for instance), 50% higher HP and 10% higher passive shield recharge rate (not that great, but nice to have), and last but not least, a 25% higher sensor resolution and sensor strength (locks enemies faster, is harder to jam and harder to probe down).

The drawbacks are the price (~550 vs ~90 mil ISK, that's really the only significant drawback), not quite enough extra CPU to compensate for the extra launcher slot in all situations and the slightly lower calibration (seldom an issue, but you never know).

The fit itself CAN basically be almost identical for a Raven and a Raven Navy Issue, replacing one non-launcher high slot with an additional launcher, the added PG is sufficient for that, and the extra CPU can be borderline enough after all relevant skills are figured in.
You get only +35 base tf (+43.75 tf with Ele5) while a T2 cruise launcher needs 66 tf (49.5 tf with WU5), so if you actually had something in that slot before that used to use at least 6.25 tf, the exchange shouldn't be a problem. Slightly more complicated with siege launchers, but, eh, manageable.

After you figure in the cost of the fit and rigs the total cost of a RNI (a.k.a. "CNR") isn't really THAT much higher than the cost of a plain vanilla Raven.
Say a full T2 fit with T1 rigs runs somewhere around 50-60 mil ISK, that's ~600 mil for a CNR and ~150 mil for a regular Raven, only about 4 times as expensive, not 5-10 times.

Personally, if I would have to choose between expensive modules costing ~450 mil ISK (or even less) on a regular Raven or upgrading to a RNI//CNR while keeping mostly the same gear, I would say almost always go with the navy ship.

Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.19 16:06:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 19/05/2011 12:48:36

Getting a navy Raven as your *FIRST* mission battleship is indeed a bad idea.
But getting it soon after you've gotten used to a regular Raven and everything seems to work smooth is a GOOD idea.


Its real benefits are the 16.6% higher DPS (which translate in at least -20% mission runtime or better if you don't have great skills, yes, you read that right, no typo/mistake), a 25 m^3 larger drone bay (to carry a set of spare lights, for instance), 50% higher HP and 10% higher passive shield recharge rate (not that great, but nice to have), and last but not least, a 25% higher sensor resolution and sensor strength (locks enemies faster, is harder to jam and harder to probe down).

The drawbacks are the price (~550 vs ~90 mil ISK, that's really the only significant drawback), not quite enough extra CPU to compensate for the extra launcher slot in all situations and the slightly lower calibration (seldom an issue, but you never know).

The fit itself CAN basically be almost identical for a Raven and a Raven Navy Issue, replacing one non-launcher high slot with an additional launcher, the added PG is sufficient for that, and the extra CPU can be borderline enough after all relevant skills are figured in.
You get only +35 base tf (+43.75 tf with Ele5) while a T2 cruise launcher needs 66 tf (49.5 tf with WU5), so if you actually had something in that slot before that used to use at least 6.25 tf, the exchange shouldn't be a problem. Slightly more complicated with siege launchers, but, eh, manageable.

After you figure in the cost of the fit and rigs the total cost of a RNI (a.k.a. "CNR") isn't really THAT much higher than the cost of a plain vanilla Raven.
Say a full T2 fit with T1 rigs runs somewhere around 50-60 mil ISK, that's ~600 mil for a CNR and ~150 mil for a regular Raven, only about 4 times as expensive, not 5-10 times.

Personally, if I would have to choose between expensive modules costing ~450 mil ISK (or even less) on a regular Raven or upgrading to a RNI//CNR while keeping mostly the same gear, I would say almost always go with the navy ship.


You have just done a magical job in making it sound like there is no real difference between 600M ISK and 150M ISK...amazing.

Mind-F*CK complete!

When the world gives you a Jeffrey...

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.19 17:53:00 - [16]
 

He's just saying that the total cost factor is lower than a straight comparison of hull prices makes it seem.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.19 19:58:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 19/05/2011 20:04:50
Originally by: Traejun DiSanctis
Quote:
After you figure in the cost of the fit and rigs the total cost of a RNI (a.k.a. "CNR") isn't really THAT much higher than the cost of a plain vanilla Raven.
Say a full T2 fit with T1 rigs runs somewhere around 50-60 mil ISK, that's ~600 mil for a CNR and ~150 mil for a regular Raven, only about 4 times as expensive, not 5-10 times.

Personally, if I would have to choose between expensive modules costing ~450 mil ISK (or even less) on a regular Raven or upgrading to a RNI//CNR while keeping mostly the same gear, I would say almost always go with the navy ship.

You have just done a magical job in making it sound like there is no real difference between 600M ISK and 150M ISK

I thought I made it sound like it is exactly 4 times higher (and the difference about 450 mil), not 5 to 10 times or any other much higher multipliers some people occasionally tout when arguing against the CNR over a regular Raven (with a difference of up to several billion).
Sure, some people (not here, but there's enough of them) dump equipment worth multiple billion onto a CNR and compare that to a blank fit Raven and conclude that a CNR is "umpteen times more expensive", but nobody's forcing you to use different equipment on a CNR, that was my entire point.
And the final phrase is pretty damn clear.

If you've reached the point where you're making, say, about 20 mil ISK per hour or thereabouts running L4s, and you're running around 40 hours of missions per month (not quite serious, but not casual either, and not anywhere near peak skill levels), upgrading to a CNR could very well boost that revenue closer to 25 mil ISK per hour, so switching over to a CNR would "pay for itself" in about 3 months even if you kept the old Raven "as is" as a fallback ship.

Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.19 20:25:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 19/05/2011 20:04:50
Originally by: Traejun DiSanctis
Quote:
After you figure in the cost of the fit and rigs the total cost of a RNI (a.k.a. "CNR") isn't really THAT much higher than the cost of a plain vanilla Raven.
Say a full T2 fit with T1 rigs runs somewhere around 50-60 mil ISK, that's ~600 mil for a CNR and ~150 mil for a regular Raven, only about 4 times as expensive, not 5-10 times.

Personally, if I would have to choose between expensive modules costing ~450 mil ISK (or even less) on a regular Raven or upgrading to a RNI//CNR while keeping mostly the same gear, I would say almost always go with the navy ship.

You have just done a magical job in making it sound like there is no real difference between 600M ISK and 150M ISK

I thought I made it sound like it is exactly 4 times higher (and the difference about 450 mil), not 5 to 10 times or any other much higher multipliers some people occasionally tout when arguing against the CNR over a regular Raven (with a difference of up to several billion).
Sure, some people (not here, but there's enough of them) dump equipment worth multiple billion onto a CNR and compare that to a blank fit Raven and conclude that a CNR is "umpteen times more expensive", but nobody's forcing you to use different equipment on a CNR, that was my entire point.
And the final phrase is pretty damn clear.

If you've reached the point where you're making, say, about 20 mil ISK per hour or thereabouts running L4s, and you're running around 40 hours of missions per month (not quite serious, but not casual either, and not anywhere near peak skill levels), upgrading to a CNR could very well boost that revenue closer to 25 mil ISK per hour, so switching over to a CNR would "pay for itself" in about 3 months even if you kept the old Raven "as is" as a fallback ship.


That's fair. The difference in price is "significant" IMO - even more so for newish players that are probably not making max potential ISK/hour as mission runners.

As for the CNR - I know it's a significantly better bird than the standard Raven. I've also been considering going Golem instead of CNR. What are you thoughts there?

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.19 20:27:00 - [19]
 

20% better mission runtime, of the approximate high-sec mission income of 20 mil / hr = 4 mil / hr. Going from 150m to 600m = difference of 450m.

At 4m / hr it would take 112.5 hours to make back the difference. Assuming one is not a bot and runs missions for 4-5 hours per day, every day, that's 22.5 days to break even.

So yeah, assuming that one does NOT lose their CNR once per month (typically there aren't many losses), after one month the CNR is better than a Raven by 4m / hr.

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.19 20:32:00 - [20]
 

Incidentally, 112.5 hrs (the "month") of mission-running at 20m per hour nets 2.25 billion ISK, at which point the runner should switch to trading in order to make way more than the 20m/hr off the 2.25b.

So, theoretically, a CNR wouldn't be used for more than a month. Meaning if you do it with a Raven you're better off by 450m, since you're not going to mission after the first month.

Mctana
Caldari
Dead's Prostitutes
White Angels.
Posted - 2011.05.19 23:25:00 - [21]
 

I would just add that when I'm watching people no plexes and anoms, they are using cruise missile golems not torps.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.05.19 23:57:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Merouk Baas
Incidentally, 112.5 hrs (the "month") of mission-running at 20m per hour nets 2.25 billion ISK, at which point the runner should switch to trading in order to make way more than the 20m/hr off the 2.25b


This x 10^6

Once you're past a certain point, managing your existing wealth is always more beneficial than adding to the same pot, at the same rate as the basic 'worker'.

If you were the manager of a factory, would you work on the production line to produce X units per month, or work on some marketing that increased sale price by 5%? Beyond a certain point, a percentage on your income becomes larger than the amount you could input by manual labour in the same timeframe.

This, pretty much, is why 'mission runners' are seen as baffoons (other reasons, too .. but this is just why it makes zero sense). Why spend 1500 million (1.5bil) on a Nightmare, when you can endlessly trade that 1.5billion, for a passive income that vastly exceeds the ISK/hr you'd get shooting rats?

Get enough money together to generate passive income ... then get out there and do something with it. Don't just sit in ****ing highsec grinding missions ... to make more ISK for a slightly better ship .. to do what, run more missions?!

**** that ****.

When I started this game, I thought missions were 'noob training' - given how simple and unrewarding they are. Then I realised some people did this ... permanently? Lordy.

This isn't a "LOL CAREBEAARRRR" whine, as there is plenty to do ASIDE from missions, that are PVE or 'safe' ... but good gawd have some creativity people. I know people who cheer when they get an Angel's Extravaganza...
Confused

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.20 00:46:00 - [23]
 

Soooooo.... what's stopping you from trading while you salvage/loot after a mission, or even during a mission ?

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.05.20 08:38:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Soooooo.... what's stopping you from trading while you salvage/loot after a mission, or even during a mission ?


Because the less time I spend missioning, the more time I can spend doing something actually "fun".

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.20 11:47:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 20/05/2011 11:47:42
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Akita T
Soooooo.... what's stopping you from trading while you salvage/loot after a mission, or even during a mission ?

Because the less time I spend missioning, the more time I can spend doing something actually "fun".

You want to make as much ISK as possible on activities you consider "not fun", so that you can afford as much time as possible on activities you do consider "fun".
I doubt you consider trading "fun", just how you also don't consider mission-running "fun". Trading is a mostly passive activity, with intermittent attention needed (hell, there's even a 5 minute delay between order adjustments, so unless you use multiple orders per item, you WILL have "downtime" even if you 0.01 ISK like mad).
So, again, why not combine both trading and mission-running up to a much higher capital (like, say, 10-20 bil ISK) in order to maximize ISK/hour income, so you need to work less for the other "fun" parts ?

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.05.20 12:31:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Akita T
I doubt you consider trading "fun", just how you also don't consider mission-running "fun". Trading is a mostly passive activity

Trading *can* be fun . . at the very least it requires some thinking, and it is effectively PVP.
Quote:
So, again, why not combine both trading and mission-running up to a much higher capital (like, say, 10-20 bil ISK) in order to maximize ISK/hour income, so you need to work less for the other "fun" parts ?

Indeed, you could argue the cutoff point varies, but the point remains the same. I got missioned out after around 2billion ISK, and will never see the point in doing one again.

Shanda Lesial
Posted - 2011.05.22 18:48:00 - [27]
 

Mission runners are buffoons, yeah, love that.

I have active and passive income in the billions, I mine and mission run, I'm a fool and buffoon, because I don't like blowing up other people's assets or losing my own in space pew-pew and I must be a screaming idiot because I don't gain enjoyument from from the head games and drama in player sov and I must be a total moron that I found out I disliked suffering acid reflux managing a huge Eve mega corp.

Yup, my billion ISK mission ship, my billion dollar exploration ship and my [expletive deleted] expensive compared to their profit point high sec mining ops are all foolish endeavors because I'm not min/maxing my ISK per second.

How Dare I Like What You Don't Like.

Honestly it's foolish to worry about your ISK per minuet when you make enough to PLEX doing what you enjoy. I like mission running, half arased exploration and *shudder gasp* the rhythmic hums of multiple strip miners.

<Sorry to go so off topic, but needed to rant, and yes I feel much better now and am no longer mad.>


 

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