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Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.05.20 10:16:00 - [31]

Originally by: Millie Clode
Originally by: Citizen20100211442

Now you really, really made youself look like an illiterate clown.

All those countries (Greece, Portugal and Spain) suffered YEARS of fascist dictatorships from their own military.

That kind of stuff tends to leave an impression. Like repulsive insects, dictators tend to leave maggot eggs in the remains of the countries they destroy, which are hard to get rid of.

I am scratching my head, and trying to find reason whats wrong with Germans? Why dont they fall into your pattern. Where are those "mysterious maggot eggs" ?

Of all the european dictatorships in the 20th century, Germany's was the most thoroughly demolished when it met its end. The transition to democracy was overseen by the western allies where the likes of spain, italy and greece made their own way, inevitably leading to the sneakiest members of previous administrations managing to cling on to influence
and then we have the Portugal case, where we had a bloodless revolution.

every time I think about that, I wish more and more we actually had some blood flowing back in '74. We might've changed to a democracy but the rot is still there.

Posted - 2011.05.20 10:54:00 - [32]

Edited by: ceaon on 20/05/2011 10:55:19
oh for those who talk about productivity this mourning we got some numbers
vacations day Spain 22+14 Germany 20+10
income 21.500 Germany 40.914
hours or work per week Spain 38,5 Germany 35,8
hours or work per year Spain 1.653 Germany 1.389
retirement before reforms Spain 62,1 Germany 62

hour and a half reasons why Merkel should eat its words

Darius Brinn
Posted - 2011.05.20 11:30:00 - [33]

Originally by: ceaon

retirement before reforms Spain 62,1 Germany 62

That's before the Spanish reforms. And in fact, the average in Germany seems to be 61.8 years. Less than 62.

It's understandable that Merkel, in order to avoid another electoral disaster, tries to rally the ignorant by appealing to an ultra-patriotic feeling, in the likes of "our hardworking folks should not work for others".

But it's still a flawed argument, and a lie to their own voters.

Do you know who's in trouble? German BANKS. German BANKS invested craploads of money into subprime stuff in Greece, Spain, Portugal, the UK, Ireland and other financially clumsy countries. Among many others.

Now those banks are finding it hard to get their investment back. What do they do? They simply call Mrs. Merkel, and ask for German TAXPAYER MONEY instead.

That money flows into bailouts, which of course means it goes straight into the BANKS of those countries (which operate just like Germany) which can, after that, pay the German BANKS.

Want a summary? German BANKS are unwise investors. When things go pear-shaped, they are able to funnel German TAXPAYER money into their balances to make ends meet.

End of story. If German banks were allowed to fall (alongside banks from the so called PIIGs), German taxpayers would not be stolen.

Countries like Greece, Ireland, Italy, Spain, and also the USA are DEBT JUNKIES. Sick creatures themselves, but with a condition aggravated by their dealers' actions.

Posted - 2011.05.20 13:19:00 - [34]

since Darius bring debt in the topic, German banks hold $26.3 billion in Greek debt al you can see other from this top

riot teens
haz solar panels

Posted - 2011.05.20 14:09:00 - [35]

Edited by: Elirel on 20/05/2011 14:18:32

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.05.20 19:13:00 - [36]

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Darius Brinn
Edited by: Darius Brinn on 19/05/2011 13:56:39
Edited by: Darius Brinn on 19/05/2011 13:55:21
I work precisely there. I am hearing the campers as I type this on my lunch break.

One can only agree with them. Corruption and deceit from the two main political parties have killed this country.

Despite what people abroad keeps taking for granted, in Spain we have the longest working hours in Europe, and one of the biggest productivity indexes around, destroyed (of course) by the sheer dimensions and uselessness of our public sector/administration.

Merely by effectively fighting the tax evasion from big fortunes and the main industrial conglomerates, Spain would not have had to touch pensions or any other social conquest from the past 40 years. This evasion is OFFICIALLY (really) quantified in 80 billion euros.

In contrast, lowering the wages of public workers forever saved the administration...3 billions.

Also, it's practically impossible for small political parties to obtain any representation. The D'Hont system keeps us in bi-partidism which, coupled with the corruption and stupidity of our politicians, needs to be ended.

Both parties are the same crap. They agree exceptionally well when it comes to their OWN pensions, their OWN benefits, and the amount of bull**** they manage to come up with. Spain has more OFFICIAL CARS for "politicians" than the WHOLE OF THE USA. Just the tip of the iceberg, of course. They almost never go to the actual Parliament (they ditch classes like high school potheads), they only work 7 years before being eligible to an extremely huge pension FOR LIFE, and they have 33% of their salary automatically deducted from the base for tax calculations. WTF?

Traditional media are merely reporting dreadlocked teens with guitars, and are only broadcasting interviews where said teens make a fool of themselves with "demands" which fall in the childish and too general categories.

They are scared, as this arranged itself through the social networks. Tweeter and Facebook, mainly.

In short: we want Spanish politician blood. Lots of it. And corpses. Many of them, dragged through the streets from rusty hooks. Now.

I could replace "Spain" with "Portugal" in almost every sentence (xcept the working hours and productivity bits), and that would still be correctLaughing

anyways, best of luck from your neighbours \o

Signing in to say we could replace "Spain" with "The United States" and the words would mean the same.

Also confirming that there is a media blackout in the USA too. Even Drudge has only 1 link on the subject. Infowars has an article on it.
Guess someone does not want people getting ideas.

Any day now, the US will claim that Al Qaida is in Spain and start dropping bombs on it to save the Spanish government - while giving aid to "the rebels" (just like the present "kinetic action" in Libya), but the rebels will not be the people protesting, just some strange crowd that shows up with million dollar anti aircraft systems mounted in pickup trucks (hey, just like Libya).

Good luck, Spaniards. May you solve this without your tyrants getting a chance to feel sorry for themselves or play the victim.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.05.20 19:44:00 - [37]

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 20/05/2011 19:52:11
I will now summarize this whine thread:

"The politicians and government is horrible! Despicable! They can't do anything right! So we need to.... to... take more of peoples' money and make the government BIGGER! Yeah, that will do it!"

There's nothing more pathetic and controllable than a so-called rebellious youth who are just calling for a bigger public teet to suck on.

These people aren't rebels. They are demanding their own enslavement through dependency. Perfect little statist parasites.

Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2011.05.20 20:09:00 - [38]

Edited by: Iasius on 20/05/2011 20:18:58
Politicians mirror the hypocrisy of their voters. They want more from their government and so the politicians work at this so they get re-elected. Which means more spending. Politicians never got voted out for more spending but politicians get voted out, even if it is a different party, when the economic spending goes off the rails in property and credit bubbles that is not underlined by solid gains in greater output from the private sector.

European countries that have a decent corporate sector that can ride recessions help economies pull out without extensive damage. The problem is that a lot of European countries pumped credit into an economy that was not translated into new solid industrial and commercial growth.
Spain is different than other southern European countries in that it has expanded industrial capacity well since the 1970's but the politicians were feckless when they got the Euro with it's opportunity of low interest rate loans.
Ireland grow very rapidly from a lot of inwards investment but the banking sector was totally irresponsible and the Irish economy which relies mostly of tax revenue from government spending fell flat on its face when government spending was drastically cut. An Irish economist who saw the credit bubble was unsustainable was encouraged to kill himself the prime minister for voicing legitimate concerns.

Malaclypse Muscaria
Posted - 2011.05.20 21:49:00 - [39]

Newspapers are reporting here that the protests are propagating through social networks to cities in other countries: Paris, Berlin, Lisbon, London, Prague, Budapest, Rabat, Warsaw, Vienna... and now even across the pond, with a few protests being organized for this weekend through FaceBook in New York (Washington State Park), Washington DC (Dupont Circle), Chicago (180 North Michigan, Avenue Chicago), and somewhere in Canada.

What do you guys reckon, are you hearing about these?

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.05.20 21:50:00 - [40]

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 20/05/2011 22:01:06
Originally by: Iasius
Politicians never got voted out for more spending

Have to disagree with this bit here. I know many fiscal conservatives who stayed home instead of voting in 2008 because the Republicans spent like Democrats. Since then, many other phony conservative Republicans got the boot and were replaced by Tea Party Republicans who know that the only reason they are in office is to say no to spending. And if they don't say no, one term is all they get. No second chances.

One chance, no more spending, gut the federal budget, or GTFO. Starve the beast, slash the federal work force, slash their pay and benefits, and make a government job a last resort for people.

That said, I still haven't figured out what the hell these people are supposed to be protesting. The unemployment rate in Spain isn't very relevant outside of Spain, and the rest of these little rallies seem to be just the usual leftist/hippie rabble who vaguely protest in support of "democracy" even as most of them live in countries with democratically elected representatives.

Posted - 2011.05.20 21:59:00 - [41]

Originally by: ceaon
Edited by: ceaon on 20/05/2011 10:55:19
oh for those who talk about productivity this mourning we got some numbers
vacations day Spain 22+14 Germany 20+10
income 21.500 Germany 40.914
hours or work per week Spain 38,5 Germany 35,8
hours or work per year Spain 1.653 Germany 1.389
retirement before reforms Spain 62,1 Germany 62

hour and a half reasons why Merkel should eat its words

Man you guys dont even work 40 hours? Jeeze. Avg income is so low damn... But then again Germany has always had much more of an industrial, and commercial mindset. So it doesn't surprise me that they do well. I've no idea how true the corruption is or isnt, but if true I can sympathize.
Also isn't one of the cornerstones of the Spanish economy tourism... Seeing as how the recession is still a factor it seems logical that is impacting peoples willingness to travel. (Guess those annoying American and Japanese tourists are useful after all.)

Malaclypse Muscaria
Posted - 2011.05.20 22:15:00 - [42]

Edited by: Malaclypse Muscaria on 20/05/2011 22:17:36
Didn't notice ceaon has been updating the OP with new developments: Protest info around the world.

Raider Zero
Tormentum Insomniae
Posted - 2011.05.21 23:46:00 - [43]

Edited by: Raider Zero on 21/05/2011 23:47:41
Edited by: Raider Zero on 21/05/2011 23:47:02
Support the permacamp in Puerta del Sol Camp in sol

We are Tired to be the same noobs "to being ganked" when things are going wrong.

Be one of those Dominos

Yes!! We camp!!

Posted - 2011.05.22 19:56:00 - [44]

there is a huge problem this movement can be politicized, my bet is that will got to far stupid left of the political spectrum

Darius Brinn
Posted - 2011.05.23 13:16:00 - [45]

Originally by: ceaon
since Darius bring debt in the topic, German banks hold $26.3 billion in Greek debt

And that's all there's to it concerning these "bailouts".

Do Germans honestly fall for it? Do they really think they are paying for Greeks to retire at 50 or something?

Nope. Germans pay the German government, which then arranges for that money to reach Greek banks, which can then pay the German banks. Greek taxpayer money is also channeled because Greek politicians cannot allow Greek banks to fall.

As a result, Greek banks pay their debts, German banks recoup their investments (plus a heftly profit) and Greek & German taxpayers are screwed.

Banks always win, no matter what. But of course Mrs. Merkel HAS elections to think of, so...what is there to do? Learn from good old Goebbels and his propaganda mastery, and give the German voter a common enemy: TEH EVIL MEDITERRANEAN LAZY ****ERS!

While (with affected mannerisms) she headcharges against these countries and talking about statistics she obviously didn't read, her hands are counting Euros below the desk and handing them over to Greek banks, so that German banks get it in the end.

Did Mrs. Merkel ASK zee Germans before bailing out the Greek, the Portuguese, the Irish and (in no time) the Spaniards?

I bet she didn't.

She plays the offended mother well, but she wouldn't stop giving German money to German banks.

Furb Killer
Posted - 2011.05.23 13:39:00 - [46]

So what exactly do the Greek banks have to do with it? It is the greek government that falsified records and that is bankrupt. Those german banks are probably already happy when they get their initial investment back, you act like they would somehow get money for the lulz, but it is money they should get from the greek. The only thing you can blame the banks for is not dropping greece much earlier, although that might have happened if they (the greek) didnt falisify their books.

Anyway any money going to Greece is pointless until they get their **** together first (so that means people should pay taxes, they should privatise loads, and you actually got to work past your 50th).

Posted - 2011.05.23 20:20:00 - [47]

@Furb Killer i am not a expert the afaik the stuff go like this

le Greek print bounds > Greek banks buy le bonds > le money from Greek banks come from German banks > le German banks got le money from funds, like pension funds and other investment vehicle > if let Greek dont pay le moneys ppl get le "haircut" > le haircut is not nice
german and other tax payers give money to le greek bank at a low interest rate so they got moany for today and tomorrow spending because they dont have money now but they can have money soon(tm)

also le greek gov dint falsified any records they made the same move that rich ppl do whit extra money in tax heaven islands but in this case was not extra money it was extra debt, all this happen whit le help of banks USA banks because USA banks are le best banks, nothing special this is business brother just business there is always money to be made Laughing

Posted - 2011.05.26 19:00:00 - [48]

seams the productivity crap got mad some ppl in spain (romania /facepalm Laughing)


How is in Spain compared to other countries?

If we take the data from The Conference Board (a body of reference for many studies on this matter) it is found that worker productivity was Spanish in 2009, the last benchmark year of $ 73,358, not far from the 74,323 in Germany Sweden's 80,515, slightly up from 73,339 in Denmark.

Spain also outperforms powers such as Japan ($ 68,398) and South Korea (60,616), although it is far from Norway (107,693) and Luxembourg (119 451). United States recorded a productivity of $ 99,113 per worker.

The same study using a different method of measurement: productivity per hour worked. But the results vary widely and are placing Spain slightly below the average for industrialized countries: $ 44.35 compared to 53.46 in Germany, Sweden and 47.96 49.98 Denmark. Norway ($ 76.76) and Luxembourg (74.50) still lead.

And behind Spain continue Japan (39.91) and South Korea (27.03) among many others. The United States remains in the high slot with $ 58.58 per hour worked.

Data from the European statistical office, Eurostat , the productivity per employee show a very similar result for the year 2009 (the last published again.) It draws on the average of the Twenty-seven (which would give the value 100), while Germany is the value at 105.1 and 109.8 Spain:

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