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Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.05.19 08:53:00 - [61]
 

Learning skills are debateable.

I do believe that the removal of them was dumbing the game down. But jeez guys, do you actually remember it!? I don't mean rolling a new alt, and knowing what you're doing, I mean that first time doing it.

The whole concept was a balance between "learning a functional skill" and "learning to learn."

Now I'm all for the latter in real life, but in Eve, all it really meant was working out your skill plan, then adding in the learning skills at a level which made the total time less. It did nothing other than pad out the skill plan by a few days / weeks. There was no skill to it, just simple math. All it really did was make new players scratch their head and wonder, "What's the point?"

I, for one, can remember the number of otherwise decent players I ran across who moaned at the learning skills. They understood them, they used them, they just thought the concept was stupid.

As did a huge number of game reviewers. Yes, we all know reviews of eve are shallow at best, but giving them an axe to grind is:
a) A barrier to entry. Prospective players are being told "Yeah, it kinda sucks"
b) It was sadly true. Yes, we all got past them - but explain to me the advantage in doing it?

Regarding agent division, what did it do? All it really meant was people Google'd the agent divisions, saw what agent type gave the highest percentage of the type they wanted (lets face it, usually combat..) and worked for that agent. If they got a courier mission, they were more likely to decline it than go find their Itty V. If they got a mining mission, they'd more likely decline it than stick a couple of miners onto a Hurricane and drum their fingers whilst it mined.

I'm against the dumbing down of eve, but I really can't see it happening. All that is happening, is the barriers for entry into a certain aspect are being lowered. Was needing to use an external resource(s) just to work out which agent you wanted in any way beneficial to the game?

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.05.19 09:21:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel

Removing learning skills did NOT dumb down eve, eve was dumbed down when they were added. Before LS were removed, your first 81 days were pre-determined, no thinking required, now you have to DECIDE on day 1 what you'll do.

you have never play Eve before haven't you? Laughing

btw: why only 81? WHY YOU EVER UNDOCK IN YOUR BSTTLESHIP WITHOUT LVL5 of skill? Laughing

and what is next? ship skills? gun skills? maybe ISKies?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:41:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Regarding agent division, what did it do?

Nothing, yes. And you know why? Because they never did anything worthwhile with it. So instead of making use of and expanding on established game content, they just throw it away. It's arbitrary complexity because it was never put to use, not because it was a bad idea.

It's pretty pathetic really.

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:58:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: northwesten on 19/05/2011 15:02:09
I don't think CCP done enough with the JB. I still think it should be removed! Jb made 0.0 freaking soft!

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Learning skills are debateable.



Not really. It needed to be removed because it was harming the game overall. I mean I have sent out a load of invites and 90% of them went to another game. Idea of spending over a month to train learning skills just bad. What's the point of that? NONE!

After they removed the learning skills I managed to get new players to the game.

Sandrestal
Posted - 2011.05.19 15:53:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Removing Jump Bridge access for ships with Jump drives didn't dumb it down, in fact it made eve a lot ****ing harder.

So where is the dumbing down? Please GTFO you damn cry babies go back to your mom's teets and ask for your milk, you make me sick,

AG[/quote



While I'm not bothered by jump capable ships not being able to use jb's, there is a problem with removing the 2 jb's per system. While many of you may think hurrah, the problem is with a sov holding alliance industrial base. A whole lot of stuff is moved around by average players using haulers or regular freighters. CCP ask question:

"Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?"

Well how will removing JB's help null sec industry? Not at all as it will discourage a percentage of people from getting involved? While some of you will say tough *******, Eve is not meant to be easy, I caution you because obviously CCP is trying to make Eve easy with a number of the changes invoked.
So how will CCP help to gear up null sec industry? Removing JB's isn't the answer. Perhaps. seeing as how jump capable ships can no longer use JB's, maybe CCP can offer JB's that only haulers and freighters can use. Once again I caution those who say this would make hauling too easy. All it takes is one cloaky SB camping a JB to ruin a haulers day.

So what I find hard to swallow is CCP saying null sec is too easy and thus they removed sanctum numbers, will be removing number of Jb's and made officer spawns no longer kill-able by a lone ratter. What we have are people in control of the game not really forward thinking about what they are implementing. All the fan fare they had about industrial and military upgrades as being the new salvation are now lying in ruins with the "new" system gradation classification. What CCP seems to forget is a lot of people work up the new implementations only to see them yanked away. Having a robust discussion with the player base might actually steer CCP toward implementing things that will be more long lasting.

The Agent revamp is another item that I wonder if CCP took a long hard look at. Most of you and CCP think that players will now filter out to the wide reaches of Eve to do missions. I say just the opposite. I look for missioners to cluster in to systems 1 or 2 jumps out of trade hubs like Jita. Why go to the far points of eve when you want to take your loot and salvage to someplace you can sell it off quickly? With agent quality now being the same there is no real incentive to go to the far ends of Eve to do missions. It may very well turn out CCP will see even more system congestion and in 6 months I guess we will see another "fix". I'm not so sure the constant tinkering that CCP is actually drawing in the number of new accts they desire. The buddy offer is a example of why it may not be.

I think there have been any number of people stating how they no longer tell friends to join up. the whole lag in fleet battle syndrome is a case in point, contradicting CCP's trailers showing the grand scope of large fleet battles. CCP's comment that walking in stations is more important than fixing lag was a major faux pas. If CCP's intent is to dumb down the game to draw more subscribers, I suggest they take a look at the number of "dumb downed" online games there are. Lord of the Rings online is now free just to get peeps playing. So what is there to attract the dumb players to another dumb game. Hopefully CCP comes to realize their game is unique because it was not simple and easy. A lot of older players have multiple accts because Eve was not a WoW clone. When Eve gets to the point where it is just another average game I hope CCP see's the increase in players they desire. Unfortunately, the way they plan things, I suspect they may not.

Crexa
Star Mandate
Posted - 2011.05.19 16:01:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Crexa on 19/05/2011 16:08:35
OP, you sir are quite wrong.

The removal of anything from the game, other than malicious, exploitive, or malfunctioning elements is by its very definition a downgrade of the game. Unless it is replaced by an equally expansive element, it is by its very nature less complex and thus "dumbed down".

Had CCP said they were replacing the current agents with more agent types what would you say? Thats right! They are making it better is what you would say. But that is NOT what is happening. And this follows on the heals of the learning skills removal, which one can at least say was a good move. This however is not. It doesn't really matter that the agent differences were never enhanced by CCP. How is that any different from the multitude of other half-assed ideas they have added but never completed in the game?

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.05.19 16:02:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: northwesten
After they removed the learning skills I managed to get new players to the game.

are you really sure you want to see new unable-to-learn-lazy-give-me-all-now people? me - not.

Sett Risalo
Posted - 2011.05.19 16:06:00 - [68]
 

^^ agreed. Lazy, unwilling to learn peeps need not apply.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.19 16:31:00 - [69]
 

You can do trig on a slide rule or you can do it on a calculator. Doing it on a calculator is the "dumbed down" version. Everyone in the world uses a calculator to do trig, unless a slide rule is all they have.


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