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Archestratidas
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:59:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yeah, there's the performance increase too.


Hallalujah!

Barashi Nugan
Gallente
Zero Point Group
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:06:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yeah, there's the performance increase too.


You know what would also give a performance increase? Changing the default tab when you show-info as previously suggested.

But hey, glad to give up mounds of information to help speed up the loading of that window by a few seconds.

Any plans to get rid of missiles and just have Caldari use hybrids? Or maybe anchor ships in place and get rid of all that pesky "moving around in space and causing the server to work" business? I've heard that can get laggy.

Archestratidas
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:23:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Archestratidas on 18/05/2011 01:27:12
Originally by: Barashi Nugan
You know what would also give a performance increase? Changing the default tab when you show-info as previously suggested.


While I have often suggested just this, frankly I'm happy with any solution that lets me show info w/o locking up my client. I never click show info with my main anymore just because of the risk of locking up at an inopportune time.

edit: no, I'm not happy; I'm ****ing ecstatic.

George Wilkes Hill
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:39:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: George Wilkes Hill on 18/05/2011 01:52:29

And how, exactly, are us "griefers" (I'm assuming you're dumping everyone that participates in empire PVP a griefer, because... well, you are) expected to gather this information now? Have a scout follow a target for several days to gather where he likes to dock and undock in mission fit ships? Plant a spy in that small 6 man "RL friends only" corporation? Just ask politely?

Just because someone has standings with an agent doesn't mean they are located in that system. It only acts as supplemental intel for when you already have laid the ground work for an attack. You can establish quite quickly where my mission hubs are, but you're not likely to ever find me there, nor are you promised a juicy kill if you do.

There is a metric ton of work that an effective empire war corporation must perform in order to have the appropriate level of intel to operate. There are a seemingly infinite number of ways to counter-act those corporations. Don't try and say that a wardec corp is for the lazy or weak. Not the ones that actually have anything to show for it anyway.

I never stated all high sec people involved in wars are griefers, merely the ones who are coming here complaining about it. Why should you have access to this information for free at the click of a button? It's just not realistic. Also what do you have to gain by deccing a small 6 man RL friends only corp? Oh right.....

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:46:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Barashi Nugan
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yeah, there's the performance increase too.


You know what would also give a performance increase? Changing the default tab when you show-info as previously suggested.

But hey, glad to give up mounds of information to help speed up the loading of that window by a few seconds.

Any plans to get rid of missiles and just have Caldari use hybrids? Or maybe anchor ships in place and get rid of all that pesky "moving around in space and causing the server to work" business? I've heard that can get laggy.


The problem with that is that the "show info" window currently opens up on the last active tab by index number (eg 3rd tab along), so if you've just opened up a blueprint's show info window, change to a particular tab, then show info on a character, the character's info window will be on the same tab as the blueprint was on.

This system works well when looking at multiple instances of the same type of info window (lots of different characters, ships, corporations) because (for example) if you're looking at what agents different NPC corps have it saves you from having to keep selecting the tab you want, because it's already the current tab. Changing the default tab would mean every time you open a show info window, you'd have to select which tab you want to view.

It does get messy when you're looking at two different characters and one has a bio entry and the next one doesn't because the same tab index will be a different actual tab.

What would be really nice is being able to have multiple show info windows open at once.

Patyrn Runner
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:59:00 - [96]
 

I like it. I hope you (or someone at CCP) keeps up with these smaller usability changes, even if it doesn't as clearly effect the bottom line like the spike in active subscriptions after an expansion.

Cordarouy Pants
Amarr
Real Salmon
Posted - 2011.05.18 02:35:00 - [97]
 

I like that people won't be able to see NPC standings. It will help hide the fact that I'm actually a shameless carebear.

Also, when I read about bookmarks on the overview I had to go and be by myself for like, 2 1/2 minutes. Too bad it couldn't get done this time around. Can't wait for that one.

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2011.05.18 03:24:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Archestratidas
>>The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.

So is this going to fix the problem of 'Show Info' pages that default to the standings tab locking up the client for 5-15 seconds while it loads all that useless crap?


Yeah, there's the performance increase too.


The real performance problem is the short freezes, aka stutter, not how it takes to load. There shouldn't be any stuttering at all, even if it takes 5 minutes to load.

And, obviously, if an operation is going to take several seconds to complete then it needs to be backgrounded or have a cancel button for the bulkier data. In all cases though - no stutter.

BTW, If you are so keen on reducing extraneous data spitting in every direction, why on earth is the small portrait icons now being sent out for every visible pilot in a chat channel? What was wrong with only seeing those that you wanted to look at?

I suggest adding a setting and making it opt-in.


San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.18 04:51:00 - [99]
 

...I don't like it! No Sir, don't like it at all!ugh

Demyen
Caldari
Black Mesa Mavericks
Posted - 2011.05.18 06:15:00 - [100]
 

Now with improved better!

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.05.18 07:14:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Archestratidas
>>The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.
...



Yeah, there's the performance increase too.


Let me guess; you have not thought this one through as well as you expected.

Often happens when developers goes tunnel sight on a single technical issue (in your case performance) and completely forget the broader picture. Been there many times.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.18 07:19:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: CCP Fallout
Team BFF has a new dev blog out detailing the "little things" that are coming in EVE Online: Incursion 1.5. Read all about it here.

DE translation
RU translation

Update: The changes to bookmarks being added to the overview will be added in a future patch, not the one scheduled for Thursday, May 19.
Update: Bookmarks will not be ready for Incursion 1.6 and are anticipated to be included in the next patch after it.



Team BFF: keeping my desire to log in above the watermark since 2010.

Keep up the awesome work guys. Every single one of those changes will make EVE perceptibly easier and smoother to play. These multiple minor improvements (especially the one we nearly got Rolling Eyes) are absolutely key in retaining your players as customers.

Also top marks on yet another slick troll of your :bittervets: with the bookmark thing. You raised and then crushed our hopes quite expertly there, good sir.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.05.18 07:27:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Archestratidas
>>The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.
...



Yeah, there's the performance increase too.


Let me guess; you have not thought this one through as well as you expected.

Often happens when developers goes tunnel sight on a single technical issue (in your case performance) and completely forget the broader picture. Been there many times.


Of course he's not, go back and read the thread he replied to and his responses in 0.0 Tweaks. CCP Soundwave is about making you play the game his way, nothing more nothing less. He doesn't understand a sandbox, doesn't want to understand it, and has no desire for one. I really enjoyed his comment that corporations shouldn't have skill requirements, or cap fleets shouldn't have skill requirements.....kinda reminds me of SOE's talk for SWG.

Boo mkII
Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2011.05.18 08:36:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Boo mkII on 18/05/2011 08:44:28
Originally by: "Daesis Wrack"
This is a little vague.

- Will bookmarks be visible in-space (as brackets) too?
- Will this apply to on-grid bookmarks, off-grid bookmarks, or both?

How to do it right: add two new entities to the overview settings: On-grid BMs, and Off-grid BMs. That way we can choose what gets shown where for ourselves.

This could be an awesome improvement, especially if do it right, so do it right!


I was thinking just like you, but actually, the problem can be solved fairly easily by using a dedicated tab for bookmarks, ordered by distance. If you name them properly and/or by using brackets, you should be able to navigate with ease between your bookmarks.

Great changes, thank you. Please keep them coming ! \o/

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.05.18 08:45:00 - [105]
 

I am concerned about the trend of 'dumbing down'...we don't want the ignorant masses to start playing EvE, do we ? ugh

The blueprint change makes me very happy Razz

Mr Garo
Posted - 2011.05.18 09:06:00 - [106]
 

Nice!

But please move the bookmark folders to server side so that they stick between client installations on multiple computers.

- Garo

CCP Punkturis

Posted - 2011.05.18 10:24:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Imigo Montoya
What would be really nice is being able to have multiple show info windows open at once.


You can either hold in shift when you show info on something to open it in new info window or change the "Try to use existing info window if any (except if shift is pressed)" setting in the General Settings tab of the ESC menu

CCP Masheen

Posted - 2011.05.18 11:01:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Kharmino
Edited by: Kharmino on 17/05/2011 22:37:55

So when I cargo-scan someone and he is carrying BPCs, will it still tell me "blueprint" or is it now possible to tell the difference between BPCs and BPOs on scan-results? Twisted Evil



tl:dr no. These changes were designed to give you the ability to tell the difference between BPOs and BPCs at a glance. Those which you own, those in contracts or basically anywhere where people would want you to be able to tell the difference. This is a big improvement on having to delve into the attributes of an item you should know a lot about when you only want to see which type it is.

In the case of cargo scanning (post-patch) you will see a blueprint in cargo scan results, 'Show Info' shows you the generic information about that blueprint like you would see in the Market and with the icon of an original. It will not be able to provide any specifics about the instance therefore you can't tell if it really is an original or just a copy, so the cargo scanner capabilities are unchanged, you're still going to have to pop that ship to find out Twisted Evil

ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
Pulsar Nebulah
Army of Lovers.
Posted - 2011.05.18 11:01:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: ArchenTheGreat on 18/05/2011 11:04:01
Originally by: Mr Garo
Nice!

But please move the bookmark folders to server side so that they stick between client installations on multiple computers.




Triple signed! Also every folder and setting (except those connected with hardware) like: hotkeys, quick market folders, overview settings etc.

Please do not remove NPC and agent standings. It's important information used for many purposes. Location agents don't solve all the problems. There are other (multiple and better) solutions to UI stutter problems.

Originally by: CCP Masheen
[...]you're still going to have to pop that ship to find out Twisted Evil


Does it mean that if BPO is destroyed it will differentiate on killmail if it's copy or original?

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.18 11:50:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Chruker
Quote:
The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.


Is it intentional that we no longer can see factions standings to other factions?`


Quote:
Agent quality has been removed. All agents will have a barrier of entry set at -20, and a payout ratio of +20. Hopefully this will let people live where they want, instead of crowding into Motsu. On a sidenote, hundreds of agents rejoice at the thought of their life finally having meaning.


One of my research agent (Sitaleere Beene, level 4 quality 16) have gone from giving me 90.24 RP/day to just 76.8, is that intentional?

It is as if you, in the current formula, just pulled the Agent_Effective_Quality out and added +20
Reseaerch_Points_Per_Day = Multiplier * ((1 + (Agent_Effective_Quality / 100)) * ((Your_Skill + Agent_Skill) ^ 2))


A few things:
- I thought that you had to talk to the agent in order to get new skills applied to your RP generation.
- Did you fix your connections skills? Are they even on sisi?
- Did you do this on sisi? I hope? It isn't on TQ yet...
- It's a new system... they're under no obligation to ensure the old player derived formulas hold. :-/

-Liang


The difference is in the negotiation skill, 25 points of EQ lost (sure of this) and connection that give another 2 point (if I recall correctly).

On Tranquillity they are applied to the R&D agent effective quality, on Sisi they are not applied.

So you lose 25+ points of effective quality.





Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:03:00 - [111]
 

Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 18/05/2011 12:09:47

Originally by: Barashi Nugan
[..] the removal of standings info is a blow[..]

That is a lot of critical information being stripped away.


If this is due to server strains, change the way it is parsed, presented, or arranged. Don't remove it.


Chances are CCP has no clue how to cache stuff properly. It's not that standings are flipping every splitsecond.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:07:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: CCP Masheen
In the case of cargo scanning (post-patch) you will see a blueprint in cargo scan results, 'Show Info' shows you the generic information about that blueprint like you would see in the Market and with the icon of an original. It will not be able to provide any specifics about the instance therefore you can't tell if it really is an original or just a copy, so the cargo scanner capabilities are unchanged, you're still going to have to pop that ship to find out Twisted Evil


So you add/keep an additional level of inconsistency?

You are full of lulz.

Grady Eltoren
Minmatar
Aviation Professionals for EVE
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:11:00 - [113]
 

Wink
Originally by: CCP Masheen
Originally by: Kharmino
Edited by: Kharmino on 17/05/2011 22:37:55

So when I cargo-scan someone and he is carrying BPCs, will it still tell me "blueprint" or is it now possible to tell the difference between BPCs and BPOs on scan-results? Twisted Evil



... capabilities are unchanged, you're still going to have to pop that ship to find out Twisted Evil


HAHA! Awesome reply. Laughing

In addition though I want to send a shout out to team BFF though on their truly AWESOME work! You guys rock it hard - like, knock it out of the park hard!

I hope you all realize how much more user friendly and just more relaxed it makes playing EVE. You are going back and improving upon so many features and areas of EVE that it makes second life that much more enjoyable. Like George Lucas improving on Star Wars - well maybe that was a bad example. Razz

Long time veterans to newbs all enjoy the fruits of your labor and it is SO appreciated. Keep up the great work - please! The thousand little paper cuts project is the best expansion/idea so far in EVE.

THANK YOU!

Umbriele
Gallente
Natural Inventions
Solyaris Chtonium
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:26:00 - [114]
 

Everyones is invited to the new Dodixie: Scheenins.

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:34:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Archestratidas
>>The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.

So is this going to fix the problem of 'Show Info' pages that default to the standings tab locking up the client for 5-15 seconds while it loads all that useless crap?


Yeah, there's the performance increase too.

Which you could also have gotten by simply not displaying agents in that list.

Also; How are we supposed to see what penalties we get with faction b if we run missions for faction a? This change was pretty poorly planned out. Rolling Eyes

De'Vadder
Minmatar
Dissonance Corp
BLACK-MARK
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:51:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: De''Vadder on 18/05/2011 12:55:56
Quote:
The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.


I too would like too express my strong dislike for this change.
Too be honest, it completely outweighs all the good that is the rest of the devblog.
Have the standings tab automatically open on relation subtab everytime instead of standings and rejoice without cutting into the easiest human identifier.

deathpain
Gallente
The Graduates
Posted - 2011.05.18 13:39:00 - [117]
 

CCP before I even think about complimenting you I must say this. YOU SUCK FOR NERFING NULL

Yeah I ain't getting over that and it must be said on every post from now on.

But yeah although you have majorly screwed up recently, in which im still hoping you will realise your mistake and fix it, I must also say this.

BOOKMARKS ON OVERVIEW, OH MY GOD HELL YEAH

it doesn't make up for your recent failure's, but its a nice start. Now you just need to beef up rats in null and fix jb's as they were before and you will be forgiven.

Kharmino
Posted - 2011.05.18 14:00:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: CCP Masheen
Originally by: Kharmino
Edited by: Kharmino on 17/05/2011 22:37:55

So when I cargo-scan someone and he is carrying BPCs, will it still tell me "blueprint" or is it now possible to tell the difference between BPCs and BPOs on scan-results? Twisted Evil



tl:dr no.(...)


To bad. Sad

Thanks for the reply though.

Caldari 5
Amarr
The Element Syndicate
Blazing Angels Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.18 14:11:00 - [119]
 

History Tab Change - Why? Seriously when missioning you look at loot tab, when PvPing look at broadcast tab, why are you combining them, I've never once wanted to look at both of them at the same time?

Probes Change - PURE AWESOME !

BPO/BPC Icon Change - Blue and Light Blue? Seriously? couldn't put a "C" in the corner of the icon like the T2/Faction/Meta except on the opposite side or something?

Scanner Change - Meh Never used the on-board scanner for anything anyways, always been either probes or directional, not the plain on-board scanner.

Attribute ID Change - I S'pose it will help some people.

Removing the landing-page on the fleet finder? so how do you create a fleet without that page?

Show Info Standing Page change - Lots of people have commented on this, frankly I agree with the people that have suggested that the Corp and Faction standings stay, but the individual agent standings can go.

Manufacturing Change - Excellent!

Automatic re-setting of a scroll position Change - Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou!

Removing Quality of Agents - I like the removal of quality, hopefully it will mean that people will spread out a little, instead of being crowded in a few main mission hubs.

Amalgamating the Agent Divisions - ALRIGHT, whose stupid idea was it to Amalgamate the Divisions? I happen to like the fact that I have a chance to get any type of mission from my Administration and Security Agents, I actually hate my Internal Security agent that keeps on giving me all the same type of mission.
I think that this change will make it fit the "Cream Bun theory" (Too much of a good thing, makes you SICK!) The Removal of divisions is very bad idea!

Bookmark Change - yet to see if this is a good or a bad thing. but it's been postponed anyways.

Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
Posted - 2011.05.18 14:22:00 - [120]
 

It's all good stuff and it's great that it's happening so regularly.

But 'walking in stations' is the Nobel Prize winning, money-making, ground-breaking change that will encourage more chicks - sorry, I ment people - to play Eve Online.


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