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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:18:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Vaako Nova
Live in 0.0 before you comment on pros and cons... 0.0 is getting nerfed to Sh*t. The only benefit in 0.0 atm is the Tech moons( which the south doesn't even have ) and super building... other than that it's a load crap... we were given great customzability in our systems only to have a lot of it taken away again...

Don't comment on what you don't know... The risks in 0.0 does not have enough reward. Remove High Sec.


I never said 0.0 wasnt getting nerfed... what I did say was GOOD!!!
Me saying that is the same thing you saying remove high sec.
We are 2 different players with different playing styles.
When 0.0 gets buffs you jump and say YAY! and when it doesnt you cry.
Same thing for me, high sec gets buffed YAY!!! 0.0 nerfed? YAY!!

Yes the risk in 0.0 is higher which should award some bonus but only to some extent.
If you compare the 2 its a massive difference in access, as in low/null gets far more stuff to play around with.

In terms of my personal biggest hate towards low/null is the fact that I dont want to risk pvp at all and for that I get punished by not being allowed to fly all the types of ships... in a game that is about flying ships.


John was being sarcastic on the comment to remove high sec.

He's right there's no real point to 0.0 anymore. Other than Supercap building (best done in drone lands) and technetium (available in the north).

Risk vs. Reward. Where the reward is little or nothing over high sec should not the danger be likewise only slightly or no greater than it is in high sec?

John knows full well as I do and everyone else up in the the current wars, that it is only a matter of time before they nerf the moon goo, and possible hit the drones with the third nerf on alloy to mineral conversion.

So I agree with him, move to 0.0 for 2 months and see how much money you make. Remember to count the number of ships you lose into that calculation but make sure you fleet up for CTAs and HDs etc so you get the real feel.

Who do you think buys all your mission loot? Who do you think buys your minerals? That's right the vast majority is bought by the Null Sec Powers. If they no longer need to sustain their empires, if it becomes so worthless its not worth fighting over then no one will buy your trinkets. So be careful in rejoicing in the suffering of the Null Sec powers because your pain may be coming sooner than you think.

In the last month and with this and what's coming in June null sec will be even more worthless than high sec, there will be no great migration towards it instead there will be an exodus from it, and those of you in empire very adverse to risk better pray that those boost that folks like Soundwave dangle like a carrot, while being so vague as to be useless, prove to be fruitful or you may well see Hulkageddon or worse on a daily basis as the 0.0 hordes take their revenge....

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:40:00 - [62]
 

The BM2OV will be pretty neat!

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:42:00 - [63]
 

In after Chribba.

Team BFF is full of win. These changes are win.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:48:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Vaako Nova

In terms of my personal biggest hate towards low/null is the fact that I dont want to risk pvp at all and for that I get punished by not being allowed to fly all the types of ships... in a game that is about flying ships.


Hrrrmm. I would possible recommend a different game. Eve is about flying ships yes, but it is designed to allow PvP in varying amounts throughout the universe. You can be wardecced by anyone without consent and attacked in highsec. You can be suicide ganked anywhere. Safety just doesnt exist in this universe, and its something to be embraced. Even if you're what we like to affectionately call a "carebear", you should derive some enjoyment from the danger of being attacked, ninja looted, probed out, whatever.

I would argue that this risk is exactly why the majority of players enjoy eve. It just isn't about fairness in the slightest. Someone asked in the "answer-everything" thread about why CCP allows the Russians to dominate everything. CCP's answer is, if you dont like it, go crush them.

If you want a "safe" zone in the game where you can test out capitals, you certainly can have it. You'll just have to carve that niche out yourself. Make friends, powerful friends, and grab some territory. Start your own New Providence. If you don't like PvP, there are plenty of mercs who will take your iskies and do your dirty work.

I dont say any of this to be a ****. I am certainly not about holding territory or call-to-arms, moon goo, or any of that nonsense. Not my idea of fun in the least. Happily, I've found my bliss in the endless smaller fleet warfare of lowsec militia wars. Eve is what you make of it, find something you love despite its drawbacks and accept the fact that risk is everywhere, and life in space just isnt fair. There's always a bigger fish, and you cant do everything everywhere. To change that is to destroy New Eden!

Absent Sentry
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:48:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Bookmarks can now be added to overview. Hopefully this should allow you to get to your safespots quicker so you can mock people in local from relative safety.


Does this also imply being able to set up bookmarks to appear solely as brackets? I have an obscene amount of bookmarks per side of individual gates, so while being able to see them in space would be awesome, actually having them on the overview would be a bit much.

Raz Lictor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:53:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Absent Sentry
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Bookmarks can now be added to overview. Hopefully this should allow you to get to your safespots quicker so you can mock people in local from relative safety.


Does this also imply being able to set up bookmarks to appear solely as brackets? I have an obscene amount of bookmarks per side of individual gates, so while being able to see them in space would be awesome, actually having them on the overview would be a bit much.


I actually came here to ask exactly this question! Bookmarks to Overview is great, but in terms of my personal functionality I'd love having them as brackets (like they are in the solar system map) without crowding an overview tab. I really hope this change will involve being able to view bookmarks in a bracket setting both on and off grid.

Bambi
Existentialist Collective
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:53:00 - [67]
 

Only waited 8 years for the BPO/BPC differential :-)

This alone accounts for 2%

I may even venture a 'whoop!'

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:57:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Raz Lictor
Originally by: Absent Sentry
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Bookmarks can now be added to overview. Hopefully this should allow you to get to your safespots quicker so you can mock people in local from relative safety.


Does this also imply being able to set up bookmarks to appear solely as brackets? I have an obscene amount of bookmarks per side of individual gates, so while being able to see them in space would be awesome, actually having them on the overview would be a bit much.


I actually came here to ask exactly this question! Bookmarks to Overview is great, but in terms of my personal functionality I'd love having them as brackets (like they are in the solar system map) without crowding an overview tab. I really hope this change will involve being able to view bookmarks in a bracket setting both on and off grid.


Yep, should be in brackets.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:58:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Bambi
Only waited 8 years for the BPO/BPC differential :-)

This alone accounts for 2%

I may even venture a 'whoop!'


I know right. Most obvious feature ever :)

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:19:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Hockston Axe on 17/05/2011 20:29:56
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 17/05/2011 19:02:08

Quote:
The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.

Horrible idea, being able to see standings is useful for various reasons;
- Figuring out if running missions for faction A will result in positive or negative penalties with faction B.
- Being able to see if a new applicant will ruin certain corp standings.
- Seeing if people have run missions at some point in their life (Poorly planned out corp infiltration alts can be filtered this way)
- Bragging rights for having cool standings
- Being able to advice people on options based on standings.

Removing agents from the public list is a good idea because it lags and serves no purpose, factions and corps should remain visible.

Apart from that; awesome patch.


^This

This is totally pointless to remove standings. Standings with Agents can go since that can be a super long list and is the one piece of intel that leads a person right to you, but Factions and Corp standings need to stay. Just a really poorly thought out idea in my opinion. Have you ever considered that beyond the intel and lag from the one or two loud morons that leave standings up as default tab and cry about the laggy show info (just have show info always default to description - fixed) that some people are proud of their standings and are glad 1 out of 100 that check your show Info will actually bother to look and be like, 'oh damn that boy plays too many missions.'

A little bit of the tiny bit of RP that was in this game just died.

Hey CCP my employment history tab lags out too, how about you remove employment history too since that's almost as useful as standings history.

Everything else in this patch is peaches and cream though.

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:33:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Bloodpetal on 17/05/2011 20:33:44
I like all of this.

I agree with the Players Standing Info being a problem. Make it like "Decorations" that can be shown or not shown depending on personal preference. During a security check, you can flash your settings to the recruiter, and then they can hide it.

Or while a player has an application in, the standings info can be seen.

Running regular security checks, glancing over their standings is important and also for Faction Warfare (which I know CCP has no interest in fixing/promoting in the near future) corps - knowing the standing of the person, and KNOWING they aren't lying about it before you accept them is valuable.

You can still see your members standings through the "Show Composition" of your corporate standings of members that are contributing, but that means at least 5 days before you can view a potential recruits standings history.

______________

And when do you un-nerf the fittings screen? Thanks

Chruker
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:37:00 - [72]
 

Request:
- Keyboard shortcut to set a bookmark spot at your current location
- Ability to change an autopilot 'dot'/system, into a waypoint

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:42:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
I can not tell you how appreciative I am for the "scale probes around center" thing. There's only one problem I have with it after trying it on Sisi: The green lines that point to the center of the probe formation aren't always on. They only show up when moving probes. They should always be on, as this makes positioning the center of the probes easier; You can rotate the view to find out how misplaced the center is.


Really?! That's what this means?

Quote:
Probes now scale around their center if you drag them while holding down “alt”. This is another victory in the war on clicks, and should make the experience less annoying.


I thought it meant that you could scale all probes' scan range by holding Alt and dragging the edge of one range bubble. But if it actually moves all probes inward and outward while keeping them in their formation, that is amazing!


Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:51:00 - [74]
 

The changes are pretty good but the "The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI." loses a useful feature.

People in low sec or who have wardecs use this feature to see what local agents somebody might be using in order to lay traps for them, sure its not a massive loss but still.

George Wilkes Hill
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:58:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Lady Skank
The changes are pretty good but the "The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI." loses a useful feature.

People in low sec or who have wardecs use this feature to see what local agents somebody might be using in order to lay traps for them, sure its not a massive loss but still.

Wait...you mean you actually have to gather intel on war targets instead of just having the info you want at literally the click of a button. Cry more, because your tears are so tasty; yours and all the others complaining about no more free intel. No more easy mode for you. Keep the tears coming guys, these are the best tears too because it's from the people that usually feed on them. Move along this a good change.

Khanid Voltar
Night's Dawn Investment Fund
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:08:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 17/05/2011 21:10:44
First of all, nice work Team BFF, I think a lot of people are going to be very happy with the bulk of this.

I do have 1 question re: the standings thing though.

Quote:
The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.


As others have stated the standings info is useful during recruitment. Will this information still be available via the API?

I assume so as it isn't stated that it won't be; but I wanted to voice the question anyway as it would seem negate most of the complaints about the new future if standings could still be viewed via the API.

Thanks
KV

edit - would also negate the cries of victory by the troll who posted before me (which can't possibly be a bad thing Very Happy)

George Wilkes Hill
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:10:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: George Wilkes Hill on 17/05/2011 21:12:50
Edited by: George Wilkes Hill on 17/05/2011 21:11:53
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
First of all, nice work Team BFF, I think a lot of people are going to be very happy with the bulk of this.

I do have 1 question re: the standings thing though.

Quote:
The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.


As others have stated the standings info is useful during recruitment. Will this information still be available via the API?


I assume so as it isn't stated that it won't be; but I wanted to voice the question anyway as it would seem negate most of the complaints about the new future if standings could still be viewed via the API.

Thanks
KV


Why wouldn't this info be available via api? It will be available through api as the individual player can obviously see their own standings, which means it would also be shown through that individuals api.
edit: I'm not a troll....Otherwise I wouldn't have answered your question. What's wrong with stating utter truths? It's glorious to see griefers cry m8.

Tammarr
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:14:00 - [78]
 

Standings now not being able to be seen is worthless. Dont pull them unless asked for by the client, but dont strip away that option because it is very important information your just taking away.



Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:24:00 - [79]
 

Can someone in CCP explain to an idiot like me why shared bookmarks are such a problem? (I heard a rumour that it can't easily be done).

They're already server-side, couldn't you knock up a rudimentary UI to allow read/write (rename, delete) permission setting on a gang, corp, or fleet basis? Bit field the available settings, job done?

(Yes I know that's a gross oversimplification but surely eliminating lots of data duplication is a pretty good win?)

Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:30:00 - [80]
 

The standings change is stupid. I would use that to kill people I had kill rights on by finding out where they run missions in high sec. I killed a CNR that dropped a CN XL booster once and it was one of my most joyus moments in EVE.

The probe change however totally makes up for it since I'm a pro combat prober and you guys made my life harder when you let probes on the overview. Now people see them on directional with no clutter and scatter as soon as they see any on directional.

Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:39:00 - [81]
 

Quote:


I thought it meant that you could scale all probes' scan range by holding Alt and dragging the edge of one range bubble. But if it actually moves all probes inward and outward while keeping them in their formation, that is amazing!




Dude, you have been able to do that for a long time. You hold down shift while dragging the range circle. Also you can move the entire probe group doing that

Sade Onyx
Posted - 2011.05.17 22:13:00 - [82]
 

you make light of the bpo/bpc change, joking of its obviousness.

But from what Ive read over the years from comments by devs, wasnt this change suppose to have been rediculously hard, never warranting the time and effort. Hence its "long time comingness"

go ahead and explain what made you decide to do it now, a break through? awesome dev hacks?.. feel free to give yourself a bit more credit, i'd like to hear the story behind it.

Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
Posted - 2011.05.17 22:21:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Sade Onyx
you make light of the bpo/bpc change, joking of its obviousness.

But from what Ive read over the years from comments by devs, wasnt this change suppose to have been rediculously hard, never warranting the time and effort. Hence its "long time comingness"

go ahead and explain what made you decide to do it now, a break through? awesome dev hacks?.. feel free to give yourself a bit more credit, i'd like to hear the story behind it.


I was wondering this too. I thought the reason they didn't do this years ago is because the database couldn't distinguish between a BPO and BPC so to change the icon on only one of them would have made a very angry database server.

Kharmino
Posted - 2011.05.17 22:36:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Kharmino on 17/05/2011 22:37:55

So when I cargo-scan someone and he is carrying BPCs, will it still tell me "blueprint" or is it now possible to tell the difference between BPCs and BPOs on scan-results? Twisted Evil

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.05.17 22:44:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Razin on 18/05/2011 00:25:13

Quote:
  • Automatic re-setting of a scroll position is the devil, and it no longer happens in the fleet view.

  • Bookmarks can now be added to overview.


Those two make the next two patches worthy to be called expansions.

P.S. Could I suggest a couple of minor (?) fixes here?
  1. Please allow all system names to be displayed in the map. Options for all/connecting regions/current region would be ideal.

  2. When making a bookmark the generic text in the resulting dialog needs to be pre-selected so that it can be over-written without having to select/delete it manually first.

Thanks!

Barashi Nugan
Gallente
Zero Point Group
Posted - 2011.05.17 23:11:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: George Wilkes Hill
Originally by: Lady Skank
The changes are pretty good but the "The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI." loses a useful feature.

People in low sec or who have wardecs use this feature to see what local agents somebody might be using in order to lay traps for them, sure its not a massive loss but still.

Wait...you mean you actually have to gather intel on war targets instead of just having the info you want at literally the click of a button. Cry more, because your tears are so tasty; yours and all the others complaining about no more free intel. No more easy mode for you. Keep the tears coming guys, these are the best tears too because it's from the people that usually feed on them. Move along this a good change.


And how, exactly, are us "griefers" (I'm assuming you're dumping everyone that participates in empire PVP a griefer, because... well, you are) expected to gather this information now? Have a scout follow a target for several days to gather where he likes to dock and undock in mission fit ships? Plant a spy in that small 6 man "RL friends only" corporation? Just ask politely?

Just because someone has standings with an agent doesn't mean they are located in that system. It only acts as supplemental intel for when you already have laid the ground work for an attack. You can establish quite quickly where my mission hubs are, but you're not likely to ever find me there, nor are you promised a juicy kill if you do.

There is a metric ton of work that an effective empire war corporation must perform in order to have the appropriate level of intel to operate. There are a seemingly infinite number of ways to counter-act those corporations. Don't try and say that a wardec corp is for the lazy or weak. Not the ones that actually have anything to show for it anyway.

Davo OHno
Posted - 2011.05.17 23:47:00 - [87]
 

It has been said already, but I feel it is necessary to voice my opinion regarding the standings visibility change to the Info screen.

The loss of faction standing information impacts our recruiters ability to determine some very basic, yet critical data.
- No longer can we see how their faction standings will impact our corp standings.
- No longer can we see if their corporate standings will impact our clone corp standinds that we so tirelessly formed.
- No longer can we see if they are simply an alt that doesn't run missions at all.

If I were hiring an employee, in real life, and could not confirm history they don't get a job. So why should I not be able to view the players standings before I allow them into my corp. Is there some other development, that has not been mentioned, as to how we now confirm anything about the pilot? Can we do a background check?

I can completely understand the removal of agent standings. As mentioned previously, it does give a bit of information that can be used as operations locating intel. However one can always have an agent locate them to find out where players reside.

Aside from this one area of the patch, I think the other changes are welcome.

I do have one little suggestion to make for a future change. How about an AFK indicator in chat? If we could check a box in corp, or public chat room to set our status would be very useful.


CCP Fallout - Please do not implement this standings info change. I implore you to hold off on this facet of your comming patch.

Regards
Davo


Archestratidas
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:49:00 - [88]
 

>>The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.

So is this going to fix the problem of 'Show Info' pages that default to the standings tab locking up the client for 5-15 seconds while it loads all that useless crap?

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:56:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Archestratidas
>>The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.

So is this going to fix the problem of 'Show Info' pages that default to the standings tab locking up the client for 5-15 seconds while it loads all that useless crap?


Yeah, there's the performance increase too.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:59:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 18/05/2011 01:00:22
Originally by: Sade Onyx
you make light of the bpo/bpc change, joking of its obviousness.

But from what Ive read over the years from comments by devs, wasnt this change suppose to have been rediculously hard, never warranting the time and effort. Hence its "long time comingness"

go ahead and explain what made you decide to do it now, a break through? awesome dev hacks?.. feel free to give yourself a bit more credit, i'd like to hear the story behind it.


don't read dev blogs much i assume? They a;;ready covered this question about 2-3 months ago with the new 64-bit inventory system that was deployed 2 months ago.

they went from *not real numbers* 1 billion unique item IDs in the data base to over 1 trillion to the tenth power squared.

more or less.

edit: let me see if i can find the dev blog in question


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