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LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors

Posted - 2011.06.07 05:49:00 - [31]
 

Let me help out this thread here.

They are ****s, they will not ever let us do this no matter the logic or easy fixes like a name history, period.

Why?

Because.(see part about ****s)

Vrykolakasis
Posted - 2011.06.07 15:18:00 - [32]
 

Meh, I'd be cool with name changes. Even free ones, maybe once per year like attribute remaps. Name change history would be nice. I'd still have other players set as contacts with good/bad standing etc, hopefully that wouldn't change with their name. Their sec status hopefully wouldn't change. Their employment history would still exist. Their faction standings would still exist. We already have a system to add notes or flags to specific characters. It would make the character bazaar a lot more useful to those of us who don't want alts with ******ed names. Doesn't seem like a terribly difficult option to implement, seems like it would be used a lot so it's worth the time.

flummox
Posted - 2011.06.07 16:58:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: flummox on 07/06/2011 17:02:22
Edited by: flummox on 07/06/2011 16:59:14
Edited by: flummox on 07/06/2011 16:58:55
Edited by: flummox on 07/06/2011 16:58:44
Originally by: LordElfa
Let me help out this thread here.

They are ****s, they will not ever let us do this no matter the logic or easy fixes like a name history, period.

Why?

Because.(see part about ****s)


Lots more; no.

your name is your name. stick with your choice. and before you mention character selling/trading; choosing to buy a character with a given name is a choice.

p.s. your "logic" is based around a psycological issue named "ego". outside of that, there IS NO logic to a name change. <--that is a period right there.

also, buying a character is one of the WORST PARTS of this game. so you can't even use that as a reason. people who buy characters are just as bad, in my opinion, as people who buy/sell ISK.

if you want a new name, start a new character. i'm sorry that it means you have to start from scratch. although, i'm really not...

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.08 01:37:00 - [34]
 

I can understand your distaste with character selling, but that isn’t the point of this thread ...Although, you do realize you’re actually advocating character selling, right? By starting a new character just for a new name, what do think people will do with their skilled-up old characters? I don’t know anyone who would throw away an asset like that… just what side are you on?
Originally by: flummox
there IS NO logic to a name change.

Reading comprehension. Your blatant ignoring of my debate, shutting out of all arguments, and emotional outbursts mean you might want to consider a bit of introspection if you can stomach the hypocrisy. I’ll let you consider your own… ‘special’ advice:
Originally by: flummox
your "logic" is based around a psycological issue named "ego".

......Um, anyway,
Originally by: flummox
if you want a new name, start a new character. i'm sorry that it means you have to start from scratch. although, i'm really not...

There is another option, changing the game for the better. As EVE continues to evolve, so too should perceptions

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.08 06:46:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 08/06/2011 06:47:59
Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
I can understand your distaste with character selling, but that isn’t the point of this thread ...Although, you do realize you’re actually advocating character selling, right? By starting a new character just for a new name, what do think people will do with their skilled-up old characters? I don’t know anyone who would throw away an asset like that… just what side are you on?
Originally by: flummox
there IS NO logic to a name change.

Reading comprehension. Your blatant ignoring of my debate, shutting out of all arguments, and emotional outbursts mean you might want to consider a bit of introspection if you can stomach the hypocrisy. I’ll let you consider your own… ‘special’ advice:



Argumentum ad hominum. Let's stay on topic.

Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer



Originally by: flummox
if you want a new name, start a new character. i'm sorry that it means you have to start from scratch. although, i'm really not...

There is another option, changing the game for the better. As EVE continues to evolve, so too should perceptions


Non sequitor. And begging the question. You are assuming the premise that eve will get better with this change, yet that has very much yet to be shown, and indeed what we are discussion here.

Mr R4nd0m
Posted - 2011.06.08 08:26:00 - [36]
 

What is it with all these silly 'harsh conditions' I mean why? There is NO NEED..

Jeez let people change their Character name once per year flat fee $10. Add and extra name change tab or add to employment history thats it job done.

Why make it so difficult, and also $50 are you serious!..

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.08 09:07:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Mr R4nd0m
What is it with all these silly 'harsh conditions' I mean why? There is NO NEED..

Jeez let people change their Character name once per year flat fee $10. Add and extra name change tab or add to employment history thats it job done.

Why make it so difficult, and also $50 are you serious!..


Perhaps (I'm guessing) that there are a lot of rich griefers out there, who would gladly pay to gank the crap out of you, join your corp, steal your isk, change their name, and hope you don't come looking for them. (histories won't work if the character search engine won't search for past names)


Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.09 05:08:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Paulize Dn''Injer on 09/06/2011 05:24:04
Originally by: Mr R4nd0m
What is it with all these silly 'harsh conditions' I mean why? There is NO NEED..

It's more like we're attempting to work out the issues name changes would cause and thus provide a solid, coherent, plausible proposal. The fee is there to make name changing inefficient and less abused (since there are already many nefarious avenues that are used more efficiently even now) although all points are certainly debatable

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.09 05:16:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
...You are assuming the premise that eve will get better with this change, yet that has very much yet to be shown, and indeed what we are discussion here.

Okay, I deserve most of that, especially after missing your older post:
Originally by: Kaelie Onren


you jump into Jita, or other busy hub. There are over 100 people on Local. Are you telling me that you have the time to open up each persons history info and scan through? I really don't think so. This point has *not* been dealt with.

I'll give it a try, although I welcome you to provide me with more specifics, like who are you looking for?
*If it's a target that can legally kill you, it would be more advisable to scroll through looking for reds like you'd do anyway
*If it is a suicide ganker, it's to late
*If its local spam, throw-away-alts are the way they go anyway. That's why there is a fee: to make it inefficient to do so
...And I guess I haven't been clear, I'm assuming (proposing) standings will transfer (since this is about name changes)
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
And the point I made of it generating no profit for CCP is this:
3000 people x $15 usd for name change = $45,000 revenue
That's presumably less than the cost of a 1 year salary of an employee at CCP who would have to deal with the customer support and petitions that would come from the abuses of this system. IE, no profit.

Originally by: Kaelie Onren

Number of people who will see this as a new social engineering scam, and will try to exploit it.

20%, 60,000 players.


I was just using your words. Why cut out the 60k now?
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Perhaps (I'm guessing) that there are a lot of rich griefers out there, who would gladly pay to gank the crap out of you, join your corp, steal your isk, change their name, and hope you don't come looking for them. (histories won't work if the character search engine won't search for past names)

Good point on the search function, if I led this thread I'd add that to the opening post. But as for the rest, it's the same old stuff:
*Ganking isn't worth it if you consider the fee, there are a more efficient ways to do so currently in game
*If your corp recruiter cant be bothered to check their history, they deserve it. With low standards like that even a throw-away-alt would get by
*If you don't care enough about your losses to hunt them down, I can't motivate you either

...but then again, you haven't responded to most of my arguements (the a.k.a. thread) while I've been nothing but compliant, so I'll give you some of my 'latin': U MAD BRO?

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.09 06:09:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
...You are assuming the premise that eve will get better with this change, yet that has very much yet to be shown, and indeed what we are discussion here.

Okay, I deserve most of that, especially after missing your older post:
Originally by: Kaelie Onren


you jump into Jita, or other busy hub. There are over 100 people on Local. Are you telling me that you have the time to open up each persons history info and scan through? I really don't think so. This point has *not* been dealt with.

I'll give it a try, although I welcome you to provide me with more specifics, like who are you looking for?
*If it's a target that can legally kill you, it would be more advisable to scroll through looking for reds like you'd do anyway
*If it is a suicide ganker, it's to late
*If its local spam, throw-away-alts are the way they go anyway. That's why there is a fee: to make it inefficient to do so
...And I guess I haven't been clear, I'm assuming (proposing) standings will transfer (since this is about name changes)
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
And the point I made of it generating no profit for CCP is this:
3000 people x $15 usd for name change = $45,000 revenue
That's presumably less than the cost of a 1 year salary of an employee at CCP who would have to deal with the customer support and petitions that would come from the abuses of this system. IE, no profit.

Originally by: Kaelie Onren

Number of people who will see this as a new social engineering scam, and will try to exploit it.

20%, 60,000 players.


I was just using your words. Why cut out the 60k now?
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Perhaps (I'm guessing) that there are a lot of rich griefers out there, who would gladly pay to gank the crap out of you, join your corp, steal your isk, change their name, and hope you don't come looking for them. (histories won't work if the character search engine won't search for past names)

Good point on the search function, if I led this thread I'd add that to the opening post. But as for the rest, it's the same old stuff:
*Ganking isn't worth it if you consider the fee, there are a more efficient ways to do so currently in game
*If your corp recruiter cant be bothered to check their history, they deserve it. With low standards like that even a throw-away-alt would get by
*If you don't care enough about your losses to hunt them down, I can't motivate you either

...but then again, you haven't responded to most of my arguements (the a.k.a. thread) while I've been nothing but compliant, so I'll give you some of my 'latin': U MAD BRO?


First off, let me thank you for your intelligent and thought out answers. It's obvious you are someone who actually thinks something thru before posting it, and that is commendable.

Second, I'm not a bro, nor am I mad. It's just that time of the month.
And I have not left any of your points unanswered that I am aware of. If I haven't responded to point X, its either because somebody already did and I agreed with her point, or I agreed with your point to begin with. Please enlighten me of any such holes that I have allegedly left.

Who would I be looking for? Corp theives. Corp recruiters will see histories, but exactly where in the history would it show that someone stole from what? A recruiter would have to look up their past names and then do what exactly? I suppose a ganker would have his killboards shown. But a loot or corp thief won't show. So you need some sort of global record keeping of past criminal names. (and allow people to register complaints on people who have wronged them.... etc etc... I'm already reeling in the amount of work this change will require to be done right.

What about the person who ganked you when you were a noob? Now you want to deliver payback. 1 year later. How would you find him? Would CCP have to buff out the character search query server, and start adding new hardware?

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.09 06:17:00 - [41]
 

At the end of the day, I would love to have this feature as well.
Heck I spelled my name wrong. But I am living with it.

However, one of the fundamental tantamount basis in EVE is that your choices have consequences, and that you can exact revenge on those who wronged you. (as seen in countless marketing trailers) no change in the game can ever threaten that god given basic right of any player in the game. Even if it is still possible to track people's histories, if the change makes it *harder* (read, more work) to find and exact your god given right of revenge on them, then I, many on these threads, and CCP will say no.

Especially as those who really really want to change their name is in the great minority.

flummox
Posted - 2011.06.09 17:40:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Paulize Dn'Injer
I can understand your distaste with character selling, but that isn’t the point of this thread ...Although, you do realize you’re actually advocating character selling, right? By starting a new character just for a new name, what do think people will do with their skilled-up old characters? I don’t know anyone who would throw away an asset like that… just what side are you on?
Originally by: flummox
there IS NO logic to a name change.

Reading comprehension. Your blatant ignoring of my debate, shutting out of all arguments, and emotional outbursts mean you might want to consider a bit of introspection if you can stomach the hypocrisy. I’ll let you consider your own… ‘special’ advice:
Originally by: flummox
your "logic" is based around a psycological issue named "ego".

......Um, anyway,
Originally by: flummox
if you want a new name, start a new character. i'm sorry that it means you have to start from scratch. although, i'm really not...

There is another option, changing the game for the better. As EVE continues to evolve, so too should perceptions


i didn't ignore your side of the debate. and i had no emotional outburst(s).

my statements still stands on firm legs.

also, no. as [EVE continues to be assaulted with moronic childrens' attitudes brought up by parents who award trophies for last place] my perceptions will remain the same because my perceptions are based on something different than yours: logic.

EABOD

flummox

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.10 00:48:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Paulize Dn''Injer on 10/06/2011 02:55:10
Argh, thanks for the cool-off, this has been a fun but trying experience …and I too hold you in equally high regard (“Curses, my nemesis posts again!”)
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
If I haven't responded to point X, its either because somebody already did and I agreed with her point, or I agreed with your point to begin with.

That I was not aware of (makes a whole lotta sense now, I figured it was argument by omission). Then what I could really use right now is a bit of collaboration; to begin to stitch together our points of agreement and identifying ongoing issues that need a resolution.
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
...But a loot or corp thief won't show. So you need some sort of global record keeping of past criminal names. (and allow people to register complaints on people who have wronged them

I’m gonna have to admit my ignorance here: Are corp thieves branded? Is that branding searchable? What I’m getting at is, if it’s not being done now, I don’t think that’s a fair expectation to have for the name changing system.

But I like the capability anyway (old name search turns up new name too, corp theft flagging, etc.), so what I would propose to the CSM is to enquire about the feasibility of such a search function (and most other points) so we can base further discussion on fact rather than conjecture:
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
…I'm already reeling in the amount of work this change will require to be done right …Would CCP have to buff out the character search query server, and start adding new hardware?





* * * * * * *
Originally by: flummox
PORKCHOP SANDWHICHES!

Yes, I missed you too, thanks for bumping this thread.

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.10 01:08:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Paulize Dn''Injer on 11/06/2011 01:13:46
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
However, one of the fundamental tantamount basis in EVE is that your choices have consequences, and that you can exact revenge on those who wronged you. (as seen in countless marketing trailers) no change in the game can ever threaten that god given basic right of any player in the game. Even if it is still possible to track people's histories, if the change makes it *harder* (read, more work) to find and exact your god given right of revenge on them, then I, many on these threads, and CCP will say no.

In no way is name changing (as proposed here) going to allow anyone to evade consequences. This is irrefutable. Yes, it does add an extra step – be it an incredibly shallow one – but EVE is also intended to be an immersive sci-fi experience, and to be omitting an integral facet of life (life [yes, even the guile, deceit, and betrayal] by reflection being sci-fi and thus an intended aspect of said immersion) ...I just don’t think one small step should halt greater progress.



Meh. CCP has done stranger things anyway… Name Changing is nothing compared to Character Transfers in terms of destroying immersion, evading consequence, etc. That's just ignoring the elephant in the corner of the room

oldbutfeelingyoung
Posted - 2011.06.10 09:27:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: oldbutfeelingyoung on 10/06/2011 09:27:36
i am definitely need a new name
to many jokes about Old butt
When i tried out this game ,never asked myself if there was a option to change names(my fault,i know)
Only to realize it later on,that it was not possible.
Don,t mind having the name,but i would change it ,if there was a option.

Grtz Old Butt

Laurent Savard
Posted - 2011.06.10 15:03:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Goose99
You do not have the time to "investigate" when a yerr-pirate shows up on overview.Laughing

The first glance is all that matters in reality. Unless original name is displayed at a glance, not supported.


A potential compromise could be that Contacts/Watch List/Standings carry over to all names.

Does it matter that much that the instant Fred McGee pops up in local you don't realize that he was D34thMASTERbaitor last time he ganked you if he's already on your Watch List and shows up as a Red?

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.11 01:00:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Laurent Savard
A potential compromise could be that Contacts/Watch List/Standings carry over to all names.
Does it matter that much that the instant Fred McGee pops up in local you don't realize that he was D34thMASTERbaitor last time he ganked you if he's already on your Watch List and shows up as a Red?

I agree, I don't know if I mentioned something similar here or in the a.k.a. thread but I think that is going to be an integral part of the name changing system.
I'm slowly making an attempt to coalesce all these general ideas ...should I just start a new thread since the poster of the op has lost interest?

Devron Taal
Posted - 2011.06.20 05:55:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Laurent Savard
Originally by: Goose99
You do not have the time to "investigate" when a yerr-pirate shows up on overview.Laughing

The first glance is all that matters in reality. Unless original name is displayed at a glance, not supported.


A potential compromise could be that Contacts/Watch List/Standings carry over to all names.

Does it matter that much that the instant Fred McGee pops up in local you don't realize that he was D34thMASTERbaitor last time he ganked you if he's already on your Watch List and shows up as a Red?


How is this even CLOSE to being the same? Your solution to the fact that I will lose the ability to instantly uniquely identify a person with a method where I can only identify a CATEGORY of person? How many reds do you have marked in your contacts???? Not enough to grasp how broken your solution is not doubt.

And what elephant in the room???? Character transfer has a BIG legitimate use, moving from an alt of one account to the main of a new account because I want to play both at the same time now.

In fact the reason that toon transfer Is allowed is even more reason to never allow name changes. I like the fact that I can tell a toon that was bought from a farm by the silly names they have. The stickiness of names is one of the reasons ccp allowed toon transfers.

Mag Theron
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:13:00 - [49]
 

I don't see a problem with allowing characters' names to be changed. Not sure that 'harsh' conditions need to be applied - it could simply be listed as another entry on the 'Employment History' tab (perhaps even highlighted to make it stand out for recruiters). Limiting the number of changes (e.g. once per lifetime) or the frequency of changes should prevent excessive (mis)use by griefers.

Tony 2fingers
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:29:00 - [50]
 

I don't see the issue with a name change. People are always defending the under handed side of EVE by claiming its "sandbox", or "it meta gaming", so why put a penalty in place for a name change.

If we all truely believe that anything goes in EVE, how hard would it be to believe that someone paid for a new "clean" identity?

Would it make it more difficult for counter Intel? sure, but hey it's EVE anything goes as apparent with the latest Tourney.

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:33:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Devron Taal
How is this even CLOSE to being the same? Your solution to the fact that I will lose the ability to instantly uniquely identify a person with a method where I can only identify a CATEGORY of person?
A catergory provides you with the information you need immediately to get to safety and further identify them. How about a scenario to help clarify:
“Oh hey, he’s red, he must not want to prance in a field and hold hands. I’ll go dock up and then concern myself with who he is” as opposed to “I know this guy, I know this guy, I know this -- OMFG I’m being shot at because I’m reading everyone’s ‘uniquely identifiable’ name!”
Originally by: Devron Taal
How many reds do you have marked in your contacts???? Not enough to grasp how broken your solution is not doubt.
How many names do you have then? Not enough to… blah, blah, blah
Originally by: Devron Taal
And what elephant in the room???? Character transfer has a BIG legitimate use, moving from an alt of one account to the main of a new account because I want to play both at the same time now.
I can also say Name Changing has a BIG legitimate use too.
Originally by: Devron Taal
I like the fact that I can tell a toon that was bought from a farm by the silly names they have.
That would be an assumption.
Although, someone already suggested a harsh solution to that along the lines of ‘Name Changes should not transfer in the event of a Character Transfer (reverting to the first name) and/or no character having been transferred will ever be allowed a name change.’ Personally I don’t like it.
Originally by: Devron Taal
The stickiness of names is one of the reasons ccp allowed toon transfers.
What is that name sticking to? The reputaion of a completely different person! A nefarious person buys a skilled-up lamb of a character and wreaks havoc. Meta game, immersion shattering, no regulation, no paper trail, no preservation of consequence or reputation.
Originally by: Wikipedia
"Elephant in the room" is an English metaphorical idiom for an obvious truth that is being ignored or goes unaddressed. The idiomatic expression also applies to an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss. It is based on the idea that an elephant in a room would be impossible to overlook; thus, people in the room who pretend the elephant is not there have chosen to concern themselves with tangential or small and irrelevant issues rather than deal with the looming big one.


Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:37:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Tony 2fingers
People are always defending the under handed side of EVE by claiming its "sandbox" ...so why put a penalty in place for a name change.
Qouted for truth. Thanks for pointing out another 'elephant'

gdjghjhgjfh
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.22 01:10:00 - [53]
 

if anyone needs a name change, it would be me...

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:24:00 - [54]
 

C'mon CCP, "Greed is Good", right?

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.06.29 03:02:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: gdjghjhgjfh
if anyone needs a name change, it would be me...


Are you kidding? You have the perfect name! What FC would want to call you as primary? Laughing

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.29 10:32:00 - [56]
 

Well it seems that you are pretty set on your false justifications Paulize. If you are willing to consider that knowing "darth vader" as somebody put it who has a personal vendetta against YOU, is the same as putting darth vader in the lot with all the other reds, then there really is nothing more I can say to convince you. All I can say that I believe that CCP will do the right thing and never allow this. Not without some serious fee, like $50 USD or more, at the very least the same as a character transfer charge.


Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.06.30 03:20:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Meh.
Bah, you and your harsh empty words. You still haven't answered how this is worse than "darth vader" buying another character (selling the current one to off-set costs of transferring to a new one) and totally blindsiding you. Well, it seems that you are pretty set on your false justifications Kaelie.
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
All I can say that I believe that CCP will do the right thing and never allow this.
Been keeping up with current events? "Greed is good."
Oh no, I see that you're carrying the 'universal banner of righteousness' into this discussion! Have mercy!
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Not without some serious fee, like $50 USD or more, at the very least the same as a character transfer charge.
Been mentioned already. Funny how that "never" in that last quote turned into this...

Nariya Kentaya
Coalition Of Gentlemen.

Posted - 2011.06.30 04:46:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Vrykolakasis
Meh, I'd be cool with name changes. Even free ones, maybe once per year like attribute remaps. Name change history would be nice. I'd still have other players set as contacts with good/bad standing etc, hopefully that wouldn't change with their name. Their sec status hopefully wouldn't change. Their employment history would still exist. Their faction standings would still exist. We already have a system to add notes or flags to specific characters. It would make the character bazaar a lot more useful to those of us who don't want alts with ******ed names. Doesn't seem like a terribly difficult option to implement, seems like it would be used a lot so it's worth the time.

true, also, for all those RP'ers, (and for some realism, gangs in my town actually force ranking members to legally change their name) you could change your name to reflect a position in a corp, like if im a corp CEO of a fairly successful corp, and someone REALLY wants to join, then they have to change their name to "Captain McBunny-Ears III" and it would be stuck like that for a YEAR... would definetly make CEO demands and corp requirements a LOT more lulzy.

Paulize Dn'Injer
Posted - 2011.07.08 01:41:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Nariya Kentaya
true, also, for all those RP'ers, (and for some realism, gangs in my town actually force ranking members to legally change their name) you could change your name to reflect a position in a corp, like if im a corp CEO of a fairly successful corp, and someone REALLY wants to join, then they have to change their name to "Captain McBunny-Ears III" and it would be stuck like that for a YEAR... would definetly make CEO demands and corp requirements a LOT more lulzy.

Oh-hey, I hadn't really considered motivations for renaming a character beyond one's own... One could even add 'rank' prefixes and change them as you 'promote'! I'd like to explore more of these positive functional aspects!

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:15:00 - [60]
 

You want harsh? 10% loss of SP, a $ fee, only once per character, and have a permanent "AKA blah" on the character sheet.


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